Banned for life...

[PBB]

A poor choice of words on his part, yes.

A threat? I don't know that I'd view it as a threat. Perhaps had he said something along the lines of "I'm going to build a meth-lab in less time than it takes to get service..."

Police involvement then? You bet.

A lifetime ban after finding NOTHING at all that would indicate any sort of illegal activity? Sorry Disney, you're over-reacting.

Great post......Solid Logic..........if this was such a SERIOUS threat that warranted calling the Orange County Sheriff and a midnight eviction? Where were the charges? If they were positive a threat occurred arrest and bring charges. The fact the man was not even detained for questioning or a background check speaks volumes. Various crimes have occurred around WDW, arrests have been made and convictions have occurred. It is part of the world we all live in and WDW isn't shielded from it. If this man truly threatened them why would give him the rubber stamp instead of a tour of the justices system of Orange County?

You can attack another guest in line at Test Track in front of a Castmember but you don't get arrested or a lifetime ban. Seems out of balance.......doesn't it? You make a flippant response to being on hold (according to him) and it warrants a lifetime ban?

 

[JoeyAnyc]

Wow! Obviously I don't know the whole story and don't know this guy. I watched the news report with him, and get the feeling this guy is a problem and finds it funny. That's just my feeling. Doesn't mean it's true. No one would go from mentioning a "meth lab" to an "atomic bomb". He's well aware of what he's saying.

Regardless of it all, you don't go to a place with children and mention drugs, bombs, etc. It's not funny, nor should it be left up to a cast member to decide if it's a joke or not. I'm glad it was reported. Is a lifetime ban too much? That's not my decision to make. Disney should do what they think is best for their property and in the best interest of children. I'd rather be safe than sorry. If this guy is the type of person that gets a kick out of making comments to get a rise out of people, let this serve as his learning lesson.

Atomic Bomb! Are you kidding me???

 

[JenLT]

Wow! Obviously I don't know the whole story and don't know this guy. I watched the news report with him, and get the feeling this guy is a problem and finds it funny. That's just my feeling. Doesn't mean it's true. No one would go from mentioning a "meth lab" to an "atomic bomb". He's well aware of what he's saying.

Regardless of it all, you don't go to a place with children and mention drugs, bombs, etc. It's not funny, nor should it be left up to a cast member to decide if it's a joke or not. I'm glad it was reported. Is a lifetime ban too much? That's not my decision to make. Disney should do what they think is best for their property and in the best interest of children. I'd rather be safe than sorry. If this guy is the type of person that gets a kick out of making comments to get a rise out of people, let this serve as his learning lesson.

Atomic Bomb! Are you kidding me???

I had originally thought it was over the top to ban him but you make some good points. Sometimes when you see the mannerisms of a person and the way they talk about a subject you can get more of a feel for their intentions. I haven't watched any of the videos. I think this is truly a case of not being able to make a judgment about it without having been involved. We'll never know if this was good action or an overreaction.

 

[maxiesmom]

You are right, it is a reflection of how our society has changed. But, when society has ignored things similar to this bad things have been known to happen. Maybe it wasn't the CM that made the call to the police. Maybe it was a guest that over heard him say it and god knows what else. If it had been you over hearing it, would you have just said "oh he's being a big butt and joking" or would you have thought " I wonder if that could be true at all"? It is a hard choice to make isn't it? And besides, didn't you learn as a child there is always a time and a place for everything and you need accept the consequences of what you say and do at all times? I know I was taught that and I try to teach my daughter that.

I agree. To me it is no different that being at the airport and commenting that the screening line is so long you could have built a bomb by the time it was your turn. You gotta know when some jokes are inappropriate.

 

[JennieSax]

Totally unbelievable, surely something else is going on here.

 

[Catvondita]

Am I the only one with mixed feelings on this? I'm trying to look at both sides of the story.

On one hand,

...He was clearly frustrated and felt ignored. Regardless whether he had realistic expectations of Disney, the fact remains he was frustrated. It is very easy to say the stupidest things when one is upset. Add to this particular situation that it was late and he was probably tired as well, so the odds of him saying something absolutely stupid seems all the more plausible to me. Fatigue can work against the brain much like alcohol. While such certainly doesn't excuse his behavior, I believe we should try to understand it before we snap to judgement.

Secondly, he didn't say that he was in the process of building a meth lab, or that he would build one. He merely said that he could build one.

Thirdly, he hasn't done anything to show that he is a genuine and immediate threat to public safety. He made no actual threats.

On the other hand,

...After having the time to think things through, if he thinks that saying that he could have built an atomic bomb would have been a better choice of words, he clearly didn't learn his lesson. That would have been worse to say.

The CMs and their supervisors aren't going to play a game of grammatical analysis and quibble over words like coulda/woulda/shoulda. If they hear anything remotely like this, they have the duty to respond immediately. As others have pointed out, this is a subject that one just doesn't simply joke about. Calling law enforcement was the correct thing to do, and so was throwing him out of the hotel.

And even though he didn't threaten anyone, because his statement (1) forced Disney's hand to call LE, which (2) undoubtedly caused some some guests to freak, and (3) meant that those officers were not available to respond to other emergency calls, he has certainly established himself as a severe nuisance.

IMHO, he should certainly be banned from the hotels. No question on that one. The amount of disturbance he caused calls for it. Disney did the right thing by evicting the whole room that night. They also did the right thing by NOT banning the rest of the family (they can return freely). But I doubt that he actually seeks to be a nuisance. And he isn't one of those who tries to defend their actions, he admits his fault. So I think he should be allowed to return to the parks, but on very thin permanent probation.

-----

They could fix the yeti before he got service.

After reading some of the things Tonka's Skipper and others had to say I understand a lot more why people have such an issue with what he said. But like you I am mixed (although leaning just a tad on his side). I understand people are saying you don't say certain things in a place with children but not everyone is into kids and has to turn off their personality off because kids are around. I don't personally care about other people's kids, but of course I'm not going to be obnoxious and try to say everything inappropriate thing I can think of to spite them. This guy seriously made a bad judgment call but again, who hasn't said something stupid and inappropriate at one point or another? I'm a 25 year old from New York with a bit of a crass sense of humour, and I sometimes have to stop myself from accidentally cursing in front of a kid or CM. Granted, I usually stop myself but I've had a slip up every now and then. Yes, I know there is a big difference between building a meth lab and accidentally saying (insert favorite curse here) but my point is we all saying stupid things and just because were in a place with a lot of kids doesn't mean we have to be super vanilla. Plus I don't think he was actually near other children when he said it, he was on the phone calling from his room no?

He's still an idiot don't get me wrong. When other people pointed out that meth labs can be very similar to bombs in how explosive they can be I understood why there was such an issue. I know it's just semantics but I jus still don't see it as a threat. When I think of meth labs I don't think of bombs I think of drugs. Threats are intentional and what meth dealer would want to intentionally blow up his supply? It doesn't make sense.

I think if the police searched his room and found nothing then that should have been the end of it. Or maybe give him a warning after. But they checked his room, and saw nothing. So they maybe sensed a threat like others are saying but then they saw they were wrong. Are they just banning him as punishment for saying something dumb? Is that right?

It may seem like I am on his side because I do see the lifetime ban as extreme but I also think the guy is a complete moron. The fact that he says it may have been a better idea to say atomic bomb makes me seriously question his mental state. I'm happy though that they didn't ban his family for the dumb things he said. He should have caught himself before he uttered those words, but alas I am torn.

 

[smiths02]

After reading some of the things Tonka's Skipper and others had to say I understand a lot more why people have such an issue with what he said. But like you I am mixed (although leaning just a tad on his side). I understand people are saying you don't say certain things in a place with children but not everyone is into kids and has to turn off their personality off because kids are around. I don't personally care about other people's kids, but of course I'm not going to be obnoxious and try to say everything inappropriate thing I can think of to spite them. This guy seriously made a bad judgment call but again, who hasn't said something stupid and inappropriate at one point or another? I'm a 25 year old from New York with a bit of a crass sense of humour, and I sometimes have to stop myself from accidentally cursing in front of a kid or CM. Granted, I usually stop myself but I've had a slip up every now and then. Yes, I know there is a big difference between building a meth lab and accidentally saying (insert favorite curse here) but my point is we all saying stupid things and just because were in a place with a lot of kids doesn't mean we have to be super vanilla. Plus I don't think he was actually near other children when he said it, he was on the phone calling from his room no?

He's still an idiot don't get me wrong. When other people pointed out that meth labs can be very similar to bombs in how explosive they can be I understood why there was such an issue. I know it's just semantics but I jus still don't see it as a threat. When I think of meth labs I don't think of bombs I think of drugs. Threats are intentional and what meth dealer would want to intentionally blow up his supply? It doesn't make sense.

I think if the police searched his room and found nothing then that should have been the end of it. Or maybe give him a warning after. But they checked his room, and saw nothing. So they maybe sensed a threat like others are saying but then they saw they were wrong. Are they just banning him as punishment for saying something dumb? Is that right?

It may seem like I am on his side because I do see the lifetime ban as extreme but I also think the guy is a complete moron. The fact that he says it may have been a better idea to say atomic bomb makes me seriously question his mental state. I'm happy though that they didn't ban his family for the dumb things he said. He should have caught himself before he uttered those words, but alas I am torn.

I finally watched the news story instead of just reading. I think semantics are a big deal. I'm not sure from the news story exactly what he said. Did he say:
1) You took so long that I could have built a meth lab in the time it took you to answer
2) You took so long, I built a meth lab in my room while I was waiting
3) I had enough time to build a meth lab while I was waiting on hold

Then there is, of course, the issue of how heated he was while he was saying these things. Did he verbally berate or abuse the cast member(s)?

While #1 is just a really stupid figure of speech, no 2 and 3 are vaguely threatening, even if meant as a joke.
I don't know, if I had a business, and a customer was a jerk and threatened to the point where I felt the police should be called, I might not want him back as a customer either.

 

[LeeAndRobin]

The fact that he says it may have been a better idea to say atomic bomb makes me seriously question his mental state.

While you could build a meth lab easily in a hotel room, if you know anything about building atomic bombs, you would know that you're not going to *build* one in a hotel room, unless you have a very long reservation and are seen to be carrying a lot of unusual equipment to your room. So saying "I could build an atomic bomb in the time it's taking you to help me" is essentially the same as saying "I could fly to the moon and back in the time it's taking you to help me". Both are clearly impossible, and therefore can't be construed as threats. Now if he had said "I could have armed this suitcase nuke in the time it took you to help me" that would have been another matter altogether.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

I truly don't think it's about what he said to the clerk on the phone as much as how it was said.

We don't know how disruptive he was when on the phone or when at teh front desk. We don't know if he was being loud in the room, stomping, screaming---my best guess, WDW received complaints from neighboring rooms about the guy shouting about a meth lab at midnight. They decided they had enough of the guy on the phone, who was wandering around downstairs (on medication according to his video---so was he acting goofy or spaced out?????) and the desk clerk, who may have been an 18 year old CP kid, decided that it would be safer for herself (or himself) to have the sheriff there to deal with this whackjob. If the guy was medicated (as he said), and wandering around the hotel late at night, then made some comment about meth labs--yeah.....

This guy complained because he couldn't ride with his kid on his shoulders---while he was in a wheelchair. Now, I'm not handicapped, but it seems to me that it's just common sense that putting a child on your shoulders while you operate a wheelchair (or a scooter) is unsafe for the child. Yet, this guy complains in his 2nd video that he was wronged because he was told to not put his kid on his shoulders. (2nd video)

 

[wilkeliza]

Finally listened to his videos and he is claiming the incident has given his family PTSD! Are you kidding me? PTSD from a cop knocking on your door? He should meet some real PTSD suffers before he says that.

 

[minnie mum]

This guy is not the innocent, poor, misunderstood schmuck that he's trying to portray in the video. He had a history of being confrontational with security on previous occasions blatantly ignoring and then disobeying directives.

While his actions at Pop may not have been against the law ( and hence no charges by the police, once they had investigated), they may have been the nail in the coffin as far as Disney was concerned. Perhaps this should be a lesson to those self entitled guests who think they can do or say whatever they want with impunity. Since WDW is private property, they have the right to ban anyone they want to.. Act like an obnoxious idiot and you risk being turfed out on your rear. Behave yourself and act like a human being and you'll have no problems.

 

[PBB]

This guy is not the innocent, poor, misunderstood schmuck that he's trying to portray in the video. He had a history of being confrontational with security on previous occasions blatantly ignoring and then disobeying directives./QUOTE]

Is this speculation or has Disney made a statement ? Where did you hear that he has been confrontational?

Disney has many resources available to them to justify their actions. If he was arguing at the desk or causing problems in public, I would bet they have plenty of cameras covering these areas.

He has described himself as disabled and taking medication..........sounds like he said something stupid while tired and medicated.

 

[minnie mum]

Have you watched the videos? There was a very lively discussion about this on another site I visit. His prior encounters with security and other cast members ( besides the last one at the resort) are not a secret. Perhaps they too can be blamed on his self medication? Personally, I think that his being "medicated" at the resort may be one reason for his behavior, but it isn't a valid excuse.

This guy seems to be ramping up for a lawsuit. Disney isn't going to say a single word about this to the public, nor should they. But you're right- they will have the phone conversations recorded and camera evidence of him at the resort in the public areas.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

You know I saw this on the news and was I wondered how you guys would react as soon as I saw it!

I don't like the joke at all but I'm also not crazy with the punishment either...perhaps a temporary ban but not lifetime.

Imagine lifetime without Disney :0

 

[skier_pete]

Personally I would say the single incident doesn't deserve a lifetime ban, but if they have had repeated problems with the guy...well, who am I to judge.

We cross the US / Canada border several times a year just to visit. We KNOW better than to joke with the border agents. Same with TSA. I don't really think of Disney security as the same level, but I like to think I would know better than to go that far.

 

[DisneyFan13US]

I also tend to think this was the straw that broke Disney's back. Two days ago he posted two new videos to YouTube titled David vs Goliath. Besides discussing that night he discusses an issue that occured three years ago and says that he is fighting Disney now because he allowed that fight to "go unfought".

Apparently his daughter has a blood disorder and has difficulties walking and so she was riding on his shoulders while he was driving his wheelchair. They were stopped at HS and he was told that it was against the rules for her to do so. He became upset because "other fathers walk around Disney with their child on their shoulders". A manager at HS and some security "made" him purchase a stroller for her. Due to this they decided to no longer visit HS but continued to go to the other parks that allowed his daughter to ride on his shoulders while he operated the wheelchair. He says numerous CM's saw him doing this and just told them to be careful. A year later he returned to HS and was again told it was not allowed. He claims a CM reached over and turned off his wheelchair. His daughter then got off his shoulders, he told her to get back on, and then he started shouting that he was being attacked. Security later took them to Guest Relations. He claims he was then told that it was OK for his daughter to ride on his shoulders due to it being his personal chair. He asked for something in writing and was refused becuase "everyone has been told". He left and security then changed their minds, found him again, and when he refused to remove his daughter from his shoulders, he was escorted out of the park. He said that, at that time, he did not contact the ADA (his words), the media, and he didn't call or write a letter to Disney. However, because he can't let that incident go, he is not willing to let this one go.

After telling the above story, he says he should have the freedom of speech to make a sarcastic remark but he doesn't because of our politically correct society. His family is willing to swear before a judge and Disney will not respond when asked to produce evidence. He goes on to say that while he is not asking anyone to feel sorry for him, we should feel sorry for him and his children. He also claims that he has gotten feedback from CM's that have also had this problem with security.

He ends the video by saying he's willing to give Disney another chance but that Disney should reach out to him and that people should call Disney to tell them that what they have done is wrong.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure they were looking for a reason to ban him.

 

[smiths02]

Have you watched the videos? There was a very lively discussion about this on another site I visit. His prior encounters with security and other cast members ( besides the last one at the resort) are not a secret. Perhaps they too can be blamed on his self medication? Personally, I think that his being "medicated" at the resort may be one reason for his behavior, but it isn't a valid excuse.

This guy seems to be ramping up for a lawsuit. Disney isn't going to say a single word about this to the public, nor should they. But you're right- they will have the phone conversations recorded and camera evidence of him at the resort in the public areas.

This is what I was going to say. Disney doesn't have to plead its case to the public.
And why can't Disney ban someone for any reason they want? As long as they don't discriminate against this guy for a protected reason, then they can decide they just don't want to deal with him.

 

[Happitoo]

After telling the above story, he says he should have the freedom of speech to make a sarcastic remark but he doesn't because of our politically correct society.

AND this is where I stop even considering he may possibly not be a complete moron.

He did/does have freedom of speech to make his idiotic comments. No government entity prevented/is preventing him from staying stupid crap. He even gets to keep staying stupid crap in the media and on YouTube. Freedom of Speech is not freedom from consequences. He can say whatever he wants, he just has to deal with the consequences of his words.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

No he cannot say anything he wants.

What he said amounted to threats and could have started a panic and people could have gotten hurt.

The same as yelling fire in a theater.

He is free to say anything that is foolish and stupid, and he proved he is stupide and a fool., but he can't cuase harm .

AKK

 

[smiths02]

I also tend to think this was the straw that broke Disney's back. Two days ago he posted two new videos to YouTube titled David vs Goliath. Besides discussing that night he discusses an issue that occured three years ago and says that he is fighting Disney now because he allowed that fight to "go unfought".

Apparently his daughter has a blood disorder and has difficulties walking and so she was riding on his shoulders while he was driving his wheelchair. They were stopped at HS and he was told that it was against the rules for her to do so. He became upset because "other fathers walk around Disney with their child on their shoulders". A manager at HS and some security "made" him purchase a stroller for her. Due to this they decided to no longer visit HS but continued to go to the other parks that allowed his daughter to ride on his shoulders while he operated the wheelchair. He says numerous CM's saw him doing this and just told them to be careful. A year later he returned to HS and was again told it was not allowed. He claims a CM reached over and turned off his wheelchair. His daughter then got off his shoulders, he told her to get back on, and then he started shouting that he was being attacked. Security later took them to Guest Relations. He claims he was then told that it was OK for his daughter to ride on his shoulders due to it being his personal chair. He asked for something in writing and was refused becuase "everyone has been told". He left and security then changed their minds, found him again, and when he refused to remove his daughter from his shoulders, he was escorted out of the park. He said that, at that time, he did not contact the ADA (his words), the media, and he didn't call or write a letter to Disney. However, because he can't let that incident go, he is not willing to let this one go.

After telling the above story, he says he should have the freedom of speech to make a sarcastic remark but he doesn't because of our politically correct society. His family is willing to swear before a judge and Disney will not respond when asked to produce evidence. He goes on to say that while he is not asking anyone to feel sorry for him, we should feel sorry for him and his children. He also claims that he has gotten feedback from CM's that have also had this problem with security.

He ends the video by saying he's willing to give Disney another chance but that Disney should reach out to him and that people should call Disney to tell them that what they have done is wrong.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure they were looking for a reason to ban him.

I also love the "other CMs saw me and said nothing." I hope next time he gets pulled over for speeding in his car, he says to the officer "I drive 15 miles over the speed limit every day on this road and you've never pulled me over; therefore, you cannot give me a ticket now." If the rule is that more than one person cannot ride on a wheelchair, then that is the rule.