I love credit cards so much!

[CyndiLouWho]

Also a very late reply to this question! I have two:
--The Great Wall in China w youngest (she was 14) and dh. It was a perfectly clear, sunny day. We went the opposite direction of everyone else so there we only came across 10 or so people during an hour of walking. It was amazing.
--Hiking in Denali National Park with dh. Alaska was my 50th state to visit

Both trips were pre-churning and -point-redemtions

The Great Wall and Forbidden City were awe inspiring. The sheer size of the Forbidden City and knowing it was for one family just floored me.

 

[Haley R]

YEP! Freedom or Freedom Unlimited would be the two popular choices there.

Thank you! Too many cards in too short of time lol. I lost track of them all

 

[miztressuz]

This is what I am wondering as well. If I don't want to use the ones that come to me because I won't receive anymore, then wouldn't that apply to ones to my dh also. I would think we'd both want to get the citi biz cards.

You'd want to use each other's. As long as the recipient doesn't apply using one targeted to them. So apply DH for yours, or one of the kids, then you'd use DH's for you.
At least that's my understanding from all the talk on r/churning

 

[Angrose]

The personal AA code I got does prefill out application with my address so I’m not comfortable sharing at this time. If anyone wants these tho really just make up names and they will come. I did like 5 fake accounts.

Did you use the same email address on all the fake accounts?

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Anybody here watching this thread on r/churning: https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/a73lf4/amex_bonus_denial_without_popup_datapoints/

There's also been a lot of discussion on this topic in various Daily Discussion threads too...

AMEX is crazy anymore...
- They have a popup that should tell you if you're not eligible for the bonus
- Sometimes that popup doesn't show up but they still deny people for the bonus
- Sometimes the popup will show up, people will put spend on their cards, the popup will go away, and they are still denied for the bonus
- Sometimes the popup will show up, people will put spend on their cards, the popup will go away, and they receive the bonus
- People aren't sure but it seems this isn't related to self-referring
- People have attempted to appeal to CFPB and it doesn't appear to have a positive result
- Some folks have chatted with AMEX and found out the bonus wasn't tied to their account before hitting the spend
- Others have chatted and been told the bonus details ONLY to be denied later anyways after hitting the spend

The results are VERY inconclusive. The only result you can conclude is that there's a new sheriff in town and that's the AMEX RAT. They will decide whether you get your bonus or not and they may or may not not inform you ahead of time that you will not get the bonus.

I'm not posting this to scare away folks from applying with AMEX. For newer folks who haven't "abused" AMEX yet...you're probably fine. I honestly am not sure I'm ever going to get another AMEX card unless this pattern changes though. I would be SOOOO angry if I spent $3k or $5k on a crappy card (i.e. something with 1x MR pts) and then get denied the bonus. I'm very interested to hear others' thoughts on this situation (especially those that have been following it)

EDIT: here's some additional discussion from today's DD: https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/a6yvzk/daily_discussion_thread_december_17_2018/ebzsx3w/

 

[mmmears]

Anybody here watching this thread on r/churning: https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/a73lf4/amex_bonus_denial_without_popup_datapoints/

There's also been a lot of discussion on this topic in various Daily Discussion threads too...

AMEX is crazy anymore...
- They have a popup that should tell you if you're not eligible for the bonus
- Sometimes that popup doesn't show up but they still deny people for the bonus
- Sometimes the popup will show up, people will put spend on their cards, the popup will go away, and they are still denied for the bonus
- Sometimes the popup will show up, people will put spend on their cards, the popup will go away, and they receive the bonus
- People aren't sure but it seems this isn't related to self-referring
- People have attempted to appeal to CFPB and it doesn't appear to have a positive result
- Some folks have chatted with AMEX and found out the bonus wasn't tied to their account before hitting the spend
- Others have chatted and been told the bonus details ONLY to be denied later anyways after hitting the spend

The results are VERY inconclusive. The only result you can conclude is that there's a new sheriff in town and that's the AMEX RAT. They will decide whether you get your bonus or not and they may or may not not inform you ahead of time that you will not get the bonus.

I'm not posting this to scare away folks from applying with AMEX. For newer folks who haven't "abused" AMEX yet...you're probably fine. I honestly am not sure I'm ever going to get another AMEX card unless this pattern changes though. I would be SOOOO angry if I spent $3k or $5k on a crappy card (i.e. something with 1x MR pts) and then get denied the bonus. I'm very interested to hear others' thoughts on this situation (especially those that have been following it)

EDIT: here's some additional discussion from today's DD: https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/a6yvzk/daily_discussion_thread_december_17_2018/ebzsx3w/

I'm following along but don't have much to add. I'd be really mad. It's one thing if they tell you in advance and you still choose to get the card. It's really not right if they don't and then they withhold the points. Honestly I don't see how it's legal although I read the posts that say that it's in their terms and they can do it. SMH.

 

[wendow]

Anybody here watching this thread on r/churning: https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/a73lf4/amex_bonus_denial_without_popup_datapoints/

There's also been a lot of discussion on this topic in various Daily Discussion threads too...

AMEX is crazy anymore...
- They have a popup that should tell you if you're not eligible for the bonus
- Sometimes that popup doesn't show up but they still deny people for the bonus
- Sometimes the popup will show up, people will put spend on their cards, the popup will go away, and they are still denied for the bonus
- Sometimes the popup will show up, people will put spend on their cards, the popup will go away, and they receive the bonus
- People aren't sure but it seems this isn't related to self-referring
- People have attempted to appeal to CFPB and it doesn't appear to have a positive result
- Some folks have chatted with AMEX and found out the bonus wasn't tied to their account before hitting the spend
- Others have chatted and been told the bonus details ONLY to be denied later anyways after hitting the spend

The results are VERY inconclusive. The only result you can conclude is that there's a new sheriff in town and that's the AMEX RAT. They will decide whether you get your bonus or not and they may or may not not inform you ahead of time that you will not get the bonus.

I'm not posting this to scare away folks from applying with AMEX. For newer folks who haven't "abused" AMEX yet...you're probably fine. I honestly am not sure I'm ever going to get another AMEX card unless this pattern changes though. I would be SOOOO angry if I spent $3k or $5k on a crappy card (i.e. something with 1x MR pts) and then get denied the bonus. I'm very interested to hear others' thoughts on this situation (especially those that have been following it)

EDIT: here's some additional discussion from today's DD: https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/a6yvzk/daily_discussion_thread_december_17_2018/ebzsx3w/

Haven’t been following the thread but I’m gonna hop over there to read up. I’d be so mad as well if I was not informed about not getting the bonus and I met the msr only to not get the bonus. I cannot believe that’s legal!

One thing that I also can’t understand if why some are getting the pop up with two cards and others, like myself, have quite a few Amex and I’ve not gotten the pop up. The whole thing seems so messed up and yeah, I’m not liking the new sheriff

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Haven’t been following the thread but I’m gonna hop over there to read up. I’d be so mad as well if I was not informed about not getting the bonus and I met the msr only to not get the bonus. I cannot believe that’s legal!

One thing that I also can’t understand if why some are getting the pop up with two cards and others, like myself, have quite a few Amex and I’ve not gotten the pop up. The whole thing seems so messed up and yeah, I’m not liking the new sheriff

I know! I can deal with any new churning rules (1 sapphire, 48 mo. rule, once per lifetime, 5/24, etc.) I may not like them, but I can deal with them and adapt to them. They appear to be operating in total ambiguity (and what's worse doing so intentionally).

 

[wendow]

Ugh after reading through those threads, I’m nervous to cancel my BGR when the AF hits Jan 1. That’s the first Amex I’ll be cancelling with several more to follow next year. Yikes!

 

[wendow]

I know! I can deal with any new churning rules (1 sapphire, 48 mo. rule, once per lifetime, 5/24, etc.) I may not like them, but I can deal with them and adapt to them. They appear to be operating in total ambiguity (and what's worse doing so intentionally).

Right!! I don’t like chase’s rules but at least I know what they are (now that we seem to have emerged from the shutdown era!).

 

[wendow]

Thanks @Lain. You were the one to share with me about adding my dd’s as gold AUers to get them TSA Precheck as well as me with my platinum. I got all three $85 credits today!! I’m so excited to have that! When we flew to Texas recently, the security line was long and crazy and there was hardly anyone in precheck. Standing there watching that motivated me to get this done! I’m so glad you told me we could do this!

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Ugh after reading through those threads, I’m nervous to cancel my BGR when the AF hits Jan 1. That’s the first Amex I’ll be cancelling with several more to follow next year. Yikes!

So let me share how bleak my AMEX stats are:

• Opened 15 cards (14 of them in the last 30ish months)
• Closed 13 cards (1 after just 90 days; 11 cards closed at the 13 month mark; 1 card remained open almost 3 years)
• I've NEVER paid a 2nd year annual fee (11 of the 15 cards had an AF so I closed at the 13 month mark and got the 2nd year AF credited back)
• 8 of those cards had a waived annual fee the first year so I got a year free then closed it
• I Used all the airline credits and benefits available to me
• I hit category bonuses where possible when hitting the MSR
• I Never put another dollar of spend beyond the MSR on 14 out of the 15 cards

I think the AMEX RAT has me on a special list of people who should not only be denied bonuses but sent coal for Christmas...LOL!

 

[wendow]

@SouthFayetteFan you are definitely on the RAT’s naughty list

 

[Lain]

Ugh after reading through those threads, I’m nervous to cancel my BGR when the AF hits Jan 1. That’s the first Amex I’ll be cancelling with several more to follow next year. Yikes!

I’ve definitely considered slowing down with Amex, held off on self-referring for the BBP this year (not that I necessarily think these denials have anything to do with self-referrals because there are plenty of DPs of self-referrals getting their bonuses), because I feel like I’ve been hitting Amex too hard and the BBP would be my 5th Amex credit card (and 8th Amex this year) and lock me out of a potentially good offer unless I close a card that I may not be ready to cancel.

I’ve also thought about the cards I’ve signed up for and which ones I’ll be keeping or closing next year. I’ll probably hold onto my 3 SPG cards as long as I can, until I need to close them to free up a slot, because the FN certs offset the AFs. My kiddo wants to go to Disneyland again for her birthday next August, anyway, and by then I should have 2x 35k FNs (or one or two more from my Marriott Biz and Premier Plus) and my wife will have 1x 35k FN, which we can probably use to book one of the nearby Marriotts. I’ll very likely close my Hilton Biz. I had planned to close my MB Plat (which will convert to a vanilla Plat in January), but may ask for a retention offer instead to help offset the AF and avoid closing another Plat card (I closed one this year), so I can stay in Amex’s good graces a little while longer. (Alternatively, I’d go for the MS Plat, but I’m kind of lazy to set up an investment account with MS just for a new card — and I’d feel scummy not funding it, and with the market right now... Or a Schwab Plat, but I’m not really looking to cash out, and not anytime soon anyway.) I guess that means putting more spend on the Plat in the new year to make me look like a good customer leading up to the retention call. I do plan on closing my Biz Green and BGR in due time, but I’m on the fence about closing the Biz Plat. Although I haven’t used the 35% MR rebate, I can see some value in it. But eesh, the AF will be $595! Maybe I can find something to buy at Dell, or sign up for WeWork to justify the increased fee.

I’ve also all but ruled out having my wife apply for her own Amex Gold at this time, and I’ll have her keep putting spend on the SPG Biz that we’ll be keeping, and occasional spend on the Hilton Biz until it’s time to cancel.

I do think that a major factor is spend. If you’re spending a lot with Amex (even if not on all your open cards), you’re making them money on swipe fees. Whatever metric they’re using to score us probably must include whether you’re a profitable or unprofitable customer, e.g., the value of the bonuses you’ve received vs. the AFs you’ve paid and how much spend (swipe fees) you’re bringing in.

 

[Lain]

Thanks @Lain. You were the one to share with me about adding my dd’s as gold AUers to get them TSA Precheck as well as me with my platinum. I got all three $85 credits today!! I’m so excited to have that! When we flew to Texas recently, the security line was long and crazy and there was hardly anyone in precheck. Standing there watching that motivated me to get this done! I’m so glad you told me we could do this!

I still have not gotten GE or Precheck! Standing in line with the rabble will be so fun on Christmas Eve! I can tell you my wife will not want to hop terminals and pass through security twice just for a lounge.

 

[wendow]

I’ve definitely considered slowing down with Amex, held off on self-referring for the BBP this year (not that I necessarily think these denials have anything to do with self-referrals because there are plenty of DPs of self-referrals getting their bonuses), because I feel like I’ve been hitting Amex too hard and the BBP would be my 5th Amex credit card (and 8th Amex this year) and lock me out of a potentially good offer unless I close a card that I may not be ready to cancel.

I’ve also thought about the cards I’ve signed up for and which ones I’ll be keeping or closing next year. I’ll probably hold onto my 3 SPG cards as long as I can, until I need to close them to free up a slot, because the FN certs offset the AFs. My kiddo wants to go to Disneyland again for her birthday next August, anyway, and by then I should have 2x 35k FNs and my wife will have 1x 35k FN, which we can probably use to book one of the nearby Marriotts. I’ll very likely close my Hilton Biz. I had planned to close my MB Plat (which will convert to a vanilla Plat in January), but may ask for a retention offer instead to help offset the AF and avoid closing another Plat card (I closed one last year), so I can stay in Amex’s good graces a little while longer. I guess that means putting more spend on the Plat in the new year to make me look like a good customer leading up to the retention call. I do plan on closing my Biz Green and BGR in due time, but I’m on the fence about closing the Biz Plat. Although I haven’t used the 35% MR rebate, I can see some value in it. But eesh, the AF will be $595! Maybe I can find something to buy at Dell, or sign up for WeWork to justify the increased fee.

I’ve also all but ruled out having my wife apply for her own Amex Gold at this time, and I’ll have her keep putting spend on the SPG Biz that we’ll be keeping, and occasional spend on the Hilton Biz until it’s time to cancel.

I do think that a major factor is spend. If you’re spending a lot with Amex (even if not on all your open cards), you’re making them money on swipe fees. Whatever metric they’re using to score us probably must include whether you’re a profitable or unprofitable customer, e.g., the value of the bonuses given to you vs. the AFs you’ve paid and how much spend (swipe fees) you’re bringing in.

I’m right behind you with 7 Amex of my own in the last year. My 8th Amex is my old BCP which I pc’ed to a BCE. I did pay the AF for 2 years on it.

I do spend on all my Amex regularly. Usually because of an offer but I also just try to use one of my Amex cards when there is no category spend at play. It’s not much per month on those cards but I’m hoping to keep Amex happy that way. Even with still putting spend on all my cards, I’m still probably not what they consider profitable.

I definitely want to cancel the bgr and was planning a cancelling party for all our spg’s in the spring but maybe I’ll hold them for one year. Biz green will be cut and the delta biz. And as much as I love the platinum, I can’t justify the AF. Though I will miss those Uber eats credits lol!

If I cancel everything I want to cancel, I’d be cutting 6 cards in the next 10 mos. And that’s None of dh’s Amex cards. Which reminds me I need to confiscate his spg pers. not sure why he is still carrying it around but I keep seeing dining charges on it He has a csr in his wallet with a sticker that says ‘restaurants’. Not sure how to be more clear...

 

[wendow]

I still have not gotten GE or Precheck! Standing in line with the rabble will be so fun on Christmas Eve! I can tell you my wife will not want to hop terminals and pass through security twice just for a lounge.

Maybe after you stand in those lines, it will become your NY’s resolution!!

I was surprised how simple the process was and they are driving rv’s around to different locations to make getting to them easier.

 

[Lain]

Also a very late reply to this question! I have two:
--The Great Wall in China w youngest (she was 14) and dh. It was a perfectly clear, sunny day. We went the opposite direction of everyone else so there we only came across 10 or so people during an hour of walking. It was amazing.
--Hiking in Denali National Park with dh. Alaska was my 50th state to visit

Both trips were pre-churning and -point-redemtions

I took a trip to China years ago with my parents during a college spring break, which included a day trip to the Great Wall. It was terrible, and I resolved never to travel with my dad and have no interest in ever visiting China again. Beijing in March was gray, cold and dry. My lips were chapped, cracked and bleeding from the climate. The Wall was crammed full of Chinese tourists. And my dad and I are like oil and vinegar. We rarely see eye to eye on anything, but we have the same terrible temperaments when we’re together. I remember having some stupid argument with my dad while ascending the wall and I ended up leaving him behind, made it to some high watch tower and spent the next 20 minutes or so on an international phone call with my girlfriend (now wife), telling her what a miserable time I was having, while waiting for my dad to catch up.

Glad to read that you and your daughter had a great time.

Really would love to visit Denali NP some day!

 

[Lain]

My plan is to do the $50 off $250 at Lowes on my Amex. I guess I'll see what my lowes has. I liked the idea of best buy as I could get that whopping $2.29 from ebates, LOL.

If you need more Best Buy GCs, PPDG on eBay has a deal right now with an extra $10 BBY GC when you buy a $150 BBY GC: https://www.doctorofcredit.com/ebay...st-buy-gamestop-carters-burger-king-and-more/

It’s basically a 6.25% savings, but every little bit counts.

 

[Lain]

I don't think I've ever done that but I could see my dh doing it on my behalf I opted in. I have gotten BGR mailers and sometimes capital one so maybe I wasn't opted out.

I opted in earlier this year after noticing I don’t ever seem to get good mailers. Opted in for my wife too. Now we get Discover It and Capital One Savor mailers all the time. I sometimes get stuff for Citi’s TYP cards, but nothing good. We got Alaska 40k and Hawaiian 60k offers recently! Unfortunately, they don’t fit into my plans right now. Still no 100k Plat or no lifetime language mailers from Amex...