Paid FP options coming soon to WDW?

[mom2rtk]

If you don't cut hours, and you build more rides... that's more cost to Disney which means they are going to have to charge more.

So if they close stuff or cut hours, they charge less?

They charge what they think the market will bear.

 

[Mome Rath]

Disney is a business, not only does it charge "what the market will bear" it also has an internal balance sheet. They are building more rides, whole lands, more hotels, more restaurants, etc... The labor market is tight. And, of course, Disney isn't just the theme parks; in short they have to go over the balance sheet as a whole, and being a public company means they are attempting to do all of this whilst making shareholders happy. It's not a one-to-one correspondence as far as "cutting hours." They also offer the add-ons which results in running some parks later. Are they charging more for those things that used to be "free?" Yup. They are also at the mercy of the economy just like anyone else, both up and down.

The main issue wasn't what they charge, but rather how to control crowds. Extending hours isn't going to manage the crowds that people are complaining about; if you go late at night, right before close or you go early early in the morn, the crowds aren't a problem now, which means the majority of Disney goers are not staying out past a certain time, nor are they all going to rope drop. It's the crowds in the middle of the day that need managed, which is why I believe they are now turning to FP to try to manipulate the lines.

 

[mom2rtk]

Disney is a business, not only does it charge "what the market will bear" it also has an internal balance sheet.

Funny how that internal balance sheet only works in one direction.

 

[Mome Rath]

They are expanding in every area so much (and building and refurbing in the parks like crazy), I'm not at all shocked they are looking for a revenue stream that will also try to tackle the line issue.

 

[snappy]

Sorry, but I am not convinced Disney is contemplating paid FP’s for the benefit of guests.

 

[dlavender]

Disney is a business, not only does it charge "what the market will bear" it also has an internal balance sheet. They are building more rides, whole lands, more hotels, more restaurants, etc... The labor market is tight. And, of course, Disney isn't just the theme parks; in short they have to go over the balance sheet as a whole, and being a public company means they are attempting to do all of this whilst making shareholders happy. It's not a one-to-one correspondence as far as "cutting hours." They also offer the add-ons which results in running some parks later. Are they charging more for those things that used to be "free?" Yup. They are also at the mercy of the economy just like anyone else, both up and down.

The main issue wasn't what they charge, but rather how to control crowds. Extending hours isn't going to manage the crowds that people are complaining about; if you go late at night, right before close or you go early early in the morn, the crowds aren't a problem now, which means the majority of Disney goers are not staying out past a certain time, nor are they all going to rope drop. It's the crowds in the middle of the day that need managed, which is why I believe they are now turning to FP to try to manipulate the lines.

I disagree. And the costs you are referring to aren’t on a balance sheet, they are on the income statement.

Moving the hour later in the morning means that the crowd shifts more heavily in the middle of the day. Instead of touring 8- noon, for example, you now theoretically are doing 9-1, and you don’t have the earlier advantage of getting more done in the earlier hour where I’m assuming more people don’t want to do. It is adding to the morning congestion. Since you are probably doing less in the 9-1 hour than you were from 8- noon, you may now be waiting until 2 to leave for a midday break vs 11. Same for missing the later hour at night. Instead of arriving at 4, you are now getting there an hour earlier to make up for it. So the morning crowd has been pushed more to the afternoon and the late night crowd has also been pushed to the afternoon. No matter how you look at it, cutting hours is not justified.

ETA: And on the new lands, 1 E ticket and 1 D ticket is not the way to go (unless you really want to capitalize on the demand of the 1 E ticket)

 

[snappy]

The interesting thing to me is that park hours are being reduced during both traditionally busy and slow times. AM and PM.

 

[rteetz]

The interesting thing to me is that park hours are being reduced during both traditionally busy and slow times. AM and PM.

Cost saving measures.

 

[mom2rtk]

Cost saving measures.

Yep. Sometimes it really is just what it seems.

 

[snappy]

Reducing costs and raising revenues. They should make a mint.

 

[dlavender]

The interesting thing to me is that park hours are being reduced during both traditionally busy and slow times. AM and PM.

Especially with the increase in party dates in the fall.

Of course, for a price, you can buy back some of those hours...

To me, again, there is no justifiable reason for the reduction of hours coupled with the artificially lowering of capacity. We all know the parks are packed 330 days of the year. The costs have increased each year, by more than a marginal rate.

 

[snappy]

I think the bean counters are steering the ship not the creative types or imagineers. I know it’s a business but where is the balance between the two.

 

[dlavender]

I think the bean counters are steering the ship not the creative types or imagineers. I know it’s a business but where is the balance between the two.

This is really evident in the difference between what was "teased" in Pandora and TSL vs what we got.

 

[scrappinginontario]

Especially with the increase in party dates in the fall.

Of course, for a price, you can buy back some of those hours...

To me, again, there is no justifiable reason for the reduction of hours coupled with the artificially lowering of capacity. We all know the parks are packed 330 days of the year. The costs have increased each year, by more than a marginal rate.

I don't disagree with you but this is exactly why they continue to do what they do. Costs are increasing, capacity of rides is being artificially lowered and yet, people are willing to pay extra for EMM, parties, guides, private tours etc. and the number of people going to Disney continues to grow. Why would they change anything except add new ways to bring in revenue and see if people are still willing to pay it?

I may not like it but it's reality. I went on 3 Disney cruises until my budget said enough is enough and I stopped booking. So many people say, 'This is it, I'm not going back to Disney.' Until they follow through with that and many others do too, nothing will change.

Personally, until another dreaded recession hits I don't see things changing at Disney other than going up, up, up!

 

[ljmiii]

Don’t forget about not being able to change dining reservations to a different park without incurring a fee for last minute cancellation...

ADRs are something of a red herring - you can change them without penalty and we often do. First when the park calendars shift between 180 and 60 days out. Later when we feel like eating somewhere else that day. Plus 180 days out for a dinner reservation *is* kind of insane - Disneyland is 60 days out.

Not that I think any of this will come to fruition - WDW seems to like FP+ and has trained us all to run like rats through the maze to get the cheese at the end. Our visit to Disneyland was just a very poignant reminder of what WDW used to be - relaxed, enjoyable, and fun. As for 180 day ADRs, I *really* miss talking to the nice ladies on the videophone kiosks while I decided what I wanted for dinner that night.

 

[ljmiii]

Sorry, but I am not convinced Disney is contemplating paid FP’s for the benefit of guests.

Psychiatrist: Tell me, Disney, how many of these, eh, guest *enhancements* have you performed?

Disney: An accurate number would be difficult to gauge.

Psychiatrist: Well, just give me a rough estimate.

Disney: A rough estimate? I'd say fifteen.

Psychiatrist: Fifteen?

Disney: That's a rough estimate.

Psychiatrist: Were they all done for your guests' benefit?

Disney: No. No, I would not say "benefit."

 

[Doug M]

Reducing costs and raising revenues. They should make a mint.

They already are one. People line up to pay upcharges. Just look at some of the posts on this thread. People have no issue paying 50 bucks a day PP all the way up to 300 PP a day for something that is now free.

Disney removes EMH hours and sells them now, people line up.

 

[Mome Rath]

Sorry, but I am not convinced Disney is contemplating paid FP’s for the benefit of guests.

I'm not convinced they are doing it to punish guests either. Paid FP's will indeed benefit some guests, and is another attempt at crowd control, or line control. I don't take long Disney trips any more, I can't. I also don't pay a ton extra for add-on's (I don't like staying out late either). My trips are so short sometimes I don't get headliner FP's on day 60, paid FP's may, and I emphasize may, benefit me, and those like me. I'm willing to wait and see what they come up with and the cost.

I disagree. And the costs you are referring to aren’t on a balance sheet, they are on the income statement.

And an income statement comes first, and then the balance sheet. They are intertwined and both are important when a company is surveying the landscape and then making plans, also pertinent is the cash flow statement of course. The company has to try pleasing employees, shareholders, customers, suppliers, and more.

No matter how you look at it, cutting hours is not justified.

This is one of those unknown areas; I don't have their info in order to actually say if it is justified or not, esp. financially speaking. They love their statistics, and I just don't have that data available. I do know that I personally would never use later night hours, so their choices don't phase me on that end, but my subjective opinion on that is a moot point.

In short, having gone to Disney for so many years and having seen all the non-change, and change... I'll take it when it is growing and adding on. That is absolutely going to mean they have to raise more money. I've been when it stagnated, and when the parks looked trashed (literally they went through a period where garbage was blowing around) and the 2 parks were crowded. I did stop going. When signs appeared that they worked it out, I returned. That to say there are lines Disney can cross and lose my business, but thus far the opposite has been true for me, and apparently many others. This rumored FP change has me worried, but I'm willing to wait and see.

 

[dlavender]

I don't disagree with you but this is exactly why they continue to do what they do. Costs are increasing, capacity of rides is being artificially lowered and yet, people are willing to pay extra for EMM, parties, guides, private tours etc. and the number of people going to Disney continues to grow. Why would they change anything except add new ways to bring in revenue and see if people are still willing to pay it?

I may not like it but it's reality. I went on 3 Disney cruises until my budget said enough is enough and I stopped booking. So many people say, 'This is it, I'm not going back to Disney.' Until they follow through with that and many others do too, nothing will change.

Personally, until another dreaded recession hits I don't see things changing at Disney other than going up, up, up!

You are right. They will keep pushing until there is some pushback. (seriously on those cruise prices, we never made it on one of those due to that insane cost!)

Like I've stated, we've gone from AP's and 4 onsite stays last year to a 3 day ticket this year while spending the week offsite. But our group really wanted EMM on one of those days, so we have that as well. In a way I'm still part of the problem by even doing EMM (but in my mind I'm "sticking it to them" by staying off site and only doing 3 days).

Until more people start saying no, they won't stop pushing the envelope, you are 100% right on that. But I do still like to present it out there that it may be harder to come back from a recession than it was previously. If people start having a more negative view of the place (I certainly do vs even 5 years ago), it may take more than a discount to reel people back.

 

[snappy]

You are right. They will keep pushing until there is some pushback. (seriously on those cruise prices, we never made it on one of those due to that insane cost!)

Like I've stated, we've gone from AP's and 4 onsite stays last year to a 3 day ticket this year while spending the week offsite. But our group really wanted EMM on one of those days, so we have that as well. In a way I'm still part of the problem by even doing EMM (but in my mind I'm "sticking it to them" by staying off site and only doing 3 days).

Until more people start saying no, they won't stop pushing the envelope, you are 100% right on that. But I do still like to present it out there that it may be harder to come back from a recession than it was previously. If people start having a more negative view of the place (I certainly do vs even 5 years ago), it may take more than a discount to reel people back.

The bloom is off the rose for us too.