Paid FP options coming soon to WDW?

[dlavender]

Interesting conversation with longtime friends of ours.
Quick background: We all have teenage sons. 1 family has been to WDW and DL (but not in 5-6 years). Other family has never been to either.

They are planning a group vacation to Universal Orlando this July. This will be their 2nd trip together to USO in about 3 years. We declined because I am already booked at WDW this June (and now again for August for SW).

They both said we should just go with them to Uni instead because of Express Pass privileges for on site guests. They are done with endless lines at WDW (despite one being a big Star Wars fan). The teens are also done with “kiddie rides” at WDW.

In short, Disney needs to do something about the perception that it’s nothing but lines that USO clearly doesn’t have. At some point people will stop coming (or never come at all) if 180 minute waits become the norm for headliners.

I'm really hoping Uni's new family suites take off. We loved Cabanna Bay's family suites (especially the price!). I'm excited for the third park they have been rumored to be starting, and honestly am excited for our kids to get a little bit older so we can fully enjoy Uni. It's such a relaxed place vs WDW. We have seen families here in NE FL in our community make the "switch" due to pricing and their kids getting older and wanting the thrill rides. But more competition is good. I'm hoping Uni continues to grow and continues to actively pursue the middle class and can force WDW to respond.

And to others...this is a discussion board.....where we discuss......Disney related news/issues/rumors/which cupcakes bring us the most joy/etc......

 

[jade1]

As a WDW regular since 1990 (I'm local-ish), I've seen a LOT of changes over nearly 30 years. When I first started visiting regularly, I was young and broke - I mostly did day trips, and the occasional offsite stay of a night or two, I had a MK-only AP, and later added an EP After 4pm AP. When I started earning a bit more and had a little more disposable income, I was able to get a FL AP that had blockout dates, and I used WDW's really good FL/AP discounts to stay onsite a couple times a year. As finances further improved, I was able to stay onsite more often and for longer stays, moved up to a full-year AP, began exploring WDW's table service food scene, enjoyed some extra hard-ticket events, and eventually bought into DVC. Over the past decade or so, my income has continued to increase, albeit more slowly than it did at the beginning of my career, but it hasn't kept pace with WDW's costs. First I sold my DVC, then I downgraded my AP. I started staying offsite again, reduced the length and quantity of overnight stays, and cut back on TS meals. Today, I'm back to a Silver AP, very few overnight stays - mostly offsite, no hard tickets/extra cost entry/etc., one or two TS meals a year, and a general unwillingness and inability to spend any more than I absolutely have to to enjoy the parks.

I share this history because I really do not think I'm alone. While lots of folks have incomes that have kept up with WDW's special brand of inflation, I believe there are plenty of us whose income hasn't. I can't say that I think of it as "unfair." But it is disappointing. Frustrating. Sad. Confusing. If I look back I see sooooo many things that used to be free, or at least reasonably priced, that are now way outside my budget. I've dealt with that by focusing on what makes WDW a special, enjoyable destination for my family: the overall environment and the attractions we enjoy. In some ways, FP/FP+ helped us experience that enjoyment, and in others it took away some enjoyment, but overall, we've found ways to make FP work for us and fit into what I can afford.

IDK how a pay-to-play FP program will impact us. I can't pay for it, so the issue is mostly a matter of wondering how will others paying for it change how the parks work for me and my family. If it results in shorter standby waits, greater availability of same-day FPs, or even more FPs available at my 30-day window, that could be good for us. If it results in me not being able to ride anything without a 2-hour wait, the last thing available to me at my income/budget level will be gone. Again, I don't think that qualifies as "unfair," necessarily, but it could be a huge disappointment.

Congrats on the DVC sale-such a great perk to recover otherwise completely lost resort/hotel stay prices.

But I do hear these kinds of stories often, after 30 years (for us 22 years) of staying at the same place (in this case WDW)-it would be far easier to move on, or at least cut back even a lot. Maybe let it build up into something "newish" again for one day down the road.

We are not there yet (not even close actually), esp with Pandora/DSprings/TSL/HEA/SWGE/Tron/Rat/GotG etc coming, but can see where some/many would be. But have to admit staying Deluxe on DVC dues and DVC AP makes it irresistible esp from winter weather.

I feel bad for the constantly new families discovering this magical place (well financially anyway). While they may not know better on costs, its kind of a new drug that can hook a person into doing all they can to get back.

 

[familyman123]

As a WDW regular since 1990 (I'm local-ish), I've seen a LOT of changes over nearly 30 years. When I first started visiting regularly, I was young and broke - I mostly did day trips, and the occasional offsite stay of a night or two, I had a MK-only AP, and later added an EP After 4pm AP. When I started earning a bit more and had a little more disposable income, I was able to get a FL AP that had blockout dates, and I used WDW's really good FL/AP discounts to stay onsite a couple times a year. As finances further improved, I was able to stay onsite more often and for longer stays, moved up to a full-year AP, began exploring WDW's table service food scene, enjoyed some extra hard-ticket events, and eventually bought into DVC. Over the past decade or so, my income has continued to increase, albeit more slowly than it did at the beginning of my career, but it hasn't kept pace with WDW's costs. First I sold my DVC, then I downgraded my AP. I started staying offsite again, reduced the length and quantity of overnight stays, and cut back on TS meals. Today, I'm back to a Silver AP, very few overnight stays - mostly offsite, no hard tickets/extra cost entry/etc., one or two TS meals a year, and a general unwillingness and inability to spend any more than I absolutely have to to enjoy the parks.

I share this history because I really do not think I'm alone. While lots of folks have incomes that have kept up with WDW's special brand of inflation, I believe there are plenty of us whose income hasn't. I can't say that I think of it as "unfair." But it is disappointing. Frustrating. Sad. Confusing. If I look back I see sooooo many things that used to be free, or at least reasonably priced, that are now way outside my budget. I've dealt with that by focusing on what makes WDW a special, enjoyable destination for my family: the overall environment and the attractions we enjoy. In some ways, FP/FP+ helped us experience that enjoyment, and in others it took away some enjoyment, but overall, we've found ways to make FP work for us and fit into what I can afford.

IDK how a pay-to-play FP program will impact us. I can't pay for it, so the issue is mostly a matter of wondering how will others paying for it change how the parks work for me and my family. If it results in shorter standby waits, greater availability of same-day FPs, or even more FPs available at my 30-day window, that could be good for us. If it results in me not being able to ride anything without a 2-hour wait, the last thing available to me at my income/budget level will be gone. Again, I don't think that qualifies as "unfair," necessarily, but it could be a huge disappointment.

I think of older Disney mid 80's-mid 90's as a simpler place, where a family with kids could go and have a fun time. It wasn't hip, or cool, or that terribly expensive. The people I knew who were really into it were geeks about it. My parents weren't rich, but on one income, the five of us went a number of times and enjoyed. The last time I went as a kid was in high school (94) and I had outgrown it. Would have much rather gone to a six flags and get an adrenaline rush. I didn't go back for 20 years.

And now, with 4 kids of my own, I really grew to love it again. Teenage me hated Its a Small World, adult me loves taking a small child on it. I appreciate what a great attraction it is. Full of wonder, celebrating life. I enjoy the meet and greets, and Peter Pan and late nights in Tomorrowland. A place to explore, be excited and safe. But man is it getting pricey.

Disney is moving more and more to be a luxury good. To be clear, it always was. Even when we went when I was a kid, vacationing at Disney cost more than people would ordinarily spend on a vacation. But modern times have increased the luxury vacation market (like cruises) and Disney realized that they could be in the same market. Book more than 6 months ahead of time (just like cruises) and expensive excursions (like cruises). The Touring plans podcasts says to expect cruise pricing with the Star Wars hotel, and we shouldn't be surprised. All these park additions are being made with one eye on moving up scale. And the more reputable that a Disney vacation becomes, the easier it is to increase the price. But I still love the kitschy side.

I'm definitely going to go again in 2020. Can't wait to see Galaxy's Edge. But as my oldest approaches high school age and I count how many trips I left before she leaves, I am planning my next trips to be other things I want to experience with her. Grand Canyon, the Southwest, Alaska, Europe, the Rocky Mountains. And maybe there will be another 20 year gap, and I'll go again if and when I have grand kids.

Disney has been great. Still is in a lot of ways. But soon, it may not be for me.

 

[cmwade77]

But I do hear these kinds of stories often, after 30 years (for us 22 years) of staying at the same place (in this case WDW)-it would be far easier to move on, or at least cut back even a lot. Maybe let it build up into something "newish" again for one day down the road.

Huh? We are DVC members and have stayed in Anaheim, New York, Canada and done a cruise on points, not sure how DVC equates to always staying at WDW.

I dont think that I would ever sell my DVC membership, I will still go to Disney and if I do ever cut back, I will still use it for exchanges with RCI, etc., as we still come out ahead that way

As for costs, I understand it is a bit of a sticker shock to see prices go up so much, but that is because historically Disney has been a bargain entertainment value when you look at it in terms of cost per hour.

Let's take a peak price, which I believe is $199 for a one day, one park ticket (not the best value, but it will prove my point). Since this is a peak ticket, we will assume peak hours and we are going with Magic Kingdom. So that should be 8 AM to Midnight with Evening EMH (I am assuming staying on-site as a DVC member), so that is 18 hours worth of entertainment available at that price. That works out to about $11 an hour, ok you might be able to go to a movie slightly cheaper in some areas, but not by much. Around here $20 just for admission into a movie isn't unheard of. Compare this to the cost of say going to a football game, I am not too into sports, but let's just say only lasts four hours and honestly a $200 ticket can be cheap for that.

Heck, compare the cost per hour to your local aquarium, museum, etc. You will probably find Disney to be a similar price, especially if you base it off of multi day tickets or APs.

I am not saying I like Disney raising prices, but seriously, look at the value compared to other entertainment offerings. The only others that come close to the same value or maybe a little better are some theme parks.

I used to be squarely in the camp.of Disney raised prices again, so I will cut back until someone explained it to me this way and I realized how affordable it still was and is compared to other forms of entertainment.

 

[cruisin5]

Congrats on the DVC sale-such a great perk to recover otherwise completely lost resort/hotel stay prices.

But I do hear these kinds of stories often, after 30 years (for us 22 years) of staying at the same place (in this case WDW)-it would be far easier to move on, or at least cut back even a lot. Maybe let it build up into something "newish" again for one day down the road.

We are not there yet (not even close actually), esp with Pandora/DSprings/TSL/HEA/SWGE/Tron/Rat/GotG etc coming, but can see where some/many would be. But have to admit staying Deluxe on DVC dues and DVC AP makes it irresistible esp from winter weather.

I feel bad for the constantly new families discovering this magical place (well financially anyway). While they may not know better on costs, its kind of a new drug that can hook a person into doing all they can to get back.

DVC since 2001, ever since they did away with the non-expiring passes our park days significantly decreased. We do find other ways to spend money and it's not a go-go-go vacation anymore. I would love to hop for five days but can't justify the cost of the pass for parks that haven't changed significantly. We'll do a day or two at the parks each trip now. Book a larger villa. I'm beginning to think a 2-bedroom is the minimum for 4 people. Who would have thought I'd grow to love OKW and SSR?

Nothing about the DVC rooms are deluxe. They are nice, but the rooms are pretty standard issue. All that, but we still enjoy our DVC but without the rose-colored glasses. The flexibility of DVC has paid off for us. Those recent dues payment were not as easy as in the past though.

 

[SaharanTea]

I used to be squarely in the camp.of Disney raised prices again, so I will cut back until someone explained it to me this way and I realized how affordable it still was and is compared to other forms of entertainment.

You sure are leaving out a whole bunch of other costs in your rosy 18-hour day.

And while cost per hour can be a nice measuring stick. Most people have to budget by the whole cost.

 

[wareagle57]

Huh? We are DVC members and have stayed in Anaheim, New York, Canada and done a cruise on points, not sure how DVC equates to always staying at WDW.

I dont think that I would ever sell my DVC membership, I will still go to Disney and if I do ever cut back, I will still use it for exchanges with RCI, etc., as we still come out ahead that way

As for costs, I understand it is a bit of a sticker shock to see prices go up so much, but that is because historically Disney has been a bargain entertainment value when you look at it in terms of cost per hour.

Let's take a peak price, which I believe is $199 for a one day, one park ticket (not the best value, but it will prove my point). Since this is a peak ticket, we will assume peak hours and we are going with Magic Kingdom. So that should be 8 AM to Midnight with Evening EMH (I am assuming staying on-site as a DVC member), so that is 18 hours worth of entertainment available at that price. That works out to about $11 an hour, ok you might be able to go to a movie slightly cheaper in some areas, but not by much. Around here $20 just for admission into a movie isn't unheard of. Compare this to the cost of say going to a football game, I am not too into sports, but let's just say only lasts four hours and honestly a $200 ticket can be cheap for that.

Heck, compare the cost per hour to your local aquarium, museum, etc. You will probably find Disney to be a similar price, especially if you base it off of multi day tickets or APs.

I am not saying I like Disney raising prices, but seriously, look at the value compared to other entertainment offerings. The only others that come close to the same value or maybe a little better are some theme parks.

I used to be squarely in the camp.of Disney raised prices again, so I will cut back until someone explained it to me this way and I realized how affordable it still was and is compared to other forms of entertainment.

Doesn't using DVC points for anything other than staying at WDW (possibly even including Disney cruises and DL resorts) extremely diminish the value of the points? I don't think I'll ever be in the position to buy DVC, but when I looked into it, going anywhere else seemed to be cheaper to pay out of pocket.

 

[cmwade77]

You sure are leaving out a whole bunch of other costs in your rosy 18-hour day.

And while cost per hour can be a nice measuring stick. Most people have to budget by the whole cost.

I leave out the other costs because you would increase similar costs for many other venues and really since DVC covers the hotel costs, I left that out in this example. So really the only necessary cost aside from admission would be food and you have to eat anyway, the dining plan makes the per meal cost similar to eating out around where I live, so not a big deal there.

There are obviously transportation costs, but that is variable based on where you live and not something paid to Disney.

My point is yeah, whole cost, sure, but the whole cost of doing other entertainment activities is actually more expensive, so why not do Disney if that's what you enjoy?

 

[cmwade77]

Doesn't using DVC points for anything other than staying at WDW (possibly even including Disney cruises and DL resorts) extremely diminish the value of the points? I don't think I'll ever be in the position to buy DVC, but when I looked into it, going anywhere else seemed to be cheaper to pay out of pocket.

Actually, we used something like 100 points to stay an entire week in Times Square. Even the cheapest rooms in Time Square runs around $150 per night and that is a bed with a shared bathroom down the hall.

We had similar deals in Canada. As for cruises, it usually isn't the best value, but the cruise we we're taking was a much better value to use points than cash, not sure why, just the way it worked out.

The reality though is RCI is actually a pretty good value, especially right now when they are waiving the exchange fee.

That being said, we do mostly use DVC for staying at either Disney World or the Grand Californian (our home resort and we live nearby, so we have had some great staycations).

And here is my philosophy on it, the points are paid for, all I am now paying is maintenance fees, which are minimal.

 

[SaharanTea]

I leave out the other costs because you would increase similar costs for many other venues and really since DVC covers the hotel costs, I left that out in this example. So really the only necessary cost aside from admission would be food and you have to eat anyway, the dining plan makes the per meal cost similar to eating out around where I live, so not a big deal there.

There are obviously transportation costs, but that is variable based on where you live and not something paid to Disney.

My point is yeah, whole cost, sure, but the whole cost of doing other entertainment activities is actually more expensive, so why not do Disney if that's what you enjoy?

I like how you just casually wave away those initial DVC costs. I wish I could do that.

Seriously though, they're are a bazillion entertainment options that are cheaper than Disney World. A week at the beach is a fraction of the cost of a week at Disney.

And sure, there are plenty of things that are more expensive, but I think you're getting a little flippant with all the extras you are just waving away. Compared to some entertainment, sure Disney is still a bargain, but a lot of us folks aren't doing those things either.

 

[Patches Lee]

I like planning far out (heck, I would pick my ADRs and FP the day I book my vacation if I could!), I just wouldn't want to do it every day for 10 days straight.

There would be no Disney vacation for us if I had to book each day like this. I take a vacation day to book FP because I can't even have a cell phone on the shop floor, let alone make FP reservations at work. Burn 1 day of vacation I'm fine with, multiple days there's no point. TS is fine because it opens an hour earlier and I've gotten res done in 30 minutes max.

 

[Wreckem]

They both said we should just go with them to Uni instead because of Express Pass privileges for on site guests. They are done with endless lines at WDW (despite one being a big Star Wars fan). The teens are also done with “kiddie rides” at WDW.

In short, Disney needs to do something about the perception that it’s nothing but lines that USO clearly doesn’t have. At some point people will stop coming (or never come at all) if 180 minute waits become the norm for headliners.

If you go to USO on a busy day, you will be waiting in fairly long lines for multiple attractions even with an unlimited express pass. Express lines for the main Harry Potter rides can easily hit 1.5hrs, Kong and Minions can easily hit hour.

I speak from repeated personal experience of going to USO around holidays. I always split between Disney and USO. Even with express passes I have typically waited in line longer at USOs top rides than Disney’s. Proper planning at Disney allows you minimize wait times.

 

[cmwade77]

I like how you just casually wave away those initial DVC costs. I wish I could do that.

Seriously though, they're are a bazillion entertainment options that are cheaper than Disney World. A week at the beach is a fraction of the cost of a week at Disney.

And sure, there are plenty of things that are more expensive, but I think you're getting a little flippant with all the extras you are just waving away. Compared to some entertainment, sure Disney is still a bargain, but a lot of us folks aren't doing those things either.

No, the costs were there, but the value I already have gotten out of my stays is greater than the original cost of those points. So why would I continue to count those original costs when they already gave me more value than I paid out? That is why I only count maintenance fees now.

As for other items, we all have forms of entertainment, weather it is going to the movies, going to a ball games, going to live theater (which by the way is substantially more expensive than Disney unless you get deeply discounted tickets), etc. Some of these are more expensive than others, but they all exist.

For our next trip, we got APs because with the DVC discount they were about the same price as park hoppers with purchasing Memory Maker would have been.

As I said, food cost is similar to eating out at home, but if we want to minimize food costs we would simply order from Amazon Prime Now since we would have at least a kitchenette in a Studio or a full kitchen in a one bedroom.

That leaves travel as our most expensive part and we can often get that down to around $250 a person round trip, so $500 for the two of us above what we would spend on a more local vacation (i.e. where we would eat out every meal every day) really isn't bad. Even counting maintenance fees, we are looking at about $580 or so total based on the number of trips we get out of our points per year. And this would be for two weeks or so at a time.

Now, will we do any extras while there above that? Perhaps, but I am commenting on what is essential that you just do, you have to have a place to stay, you have to have admission (if you want to go into the parks) and you have to travel there and back from wherever you live. You don't have to buy souveners, you can, but you don't have to. You don't have to buy into the after hours parties, dessert parties, tours, etc. Again, you can, but you don't have to in order to have an enjoyable trip.

That is why I think the idea that Disney costs too much is overblown.

Additionally, there are ways to reduce the costs, for example you can usually get close to 10% off Disney gift cards through various means combined with certain cash back sites and using a credit or debit card with rewards can actually get you close to 15%.

 

[cmwade77]

There would be no Disney vacation for us if I had to book each day like this. I take a vacation day to book FP because I can't even have a cell phone on the shop floor, let alone make FP reservations at work. Burn 1 day of vacation I'm fine with, multiple days there's no point. TS is fine because it opens an hour earlier and I've gotten res done in 30 minutes max.

This is one ofothe reasons why I personally think FPs should go back to day of only, but instead of paper FPs just book through the phone.

Luckily for my next trip, our 60 day window opens on a Saturday morning, so I can get up early and make the FPs.

TS no more than 60 days out, but same day would be doable as well thanks to the tech we have these days.

At bare minimum, I wish both TS and FP windows would open at Midnight eastern time, then it would be a reasonable hour on the west coast. I mean 4 AM is very early for trying to think straight enough to book FPs. Staying up until Midnight wouldn't be so bad here, but 3 AM on the East coast wouldn't make those on the East coast happy, so Midnight there, 9 PM here seems like a good compromise if Disney is going to keep insisting on being able to book FPs ahead of time

 

[familyman123]

That works out to about $11 an hour

I’m glad you like your trips and find them valuable. (I do too) And I don’t want to pick a fight. But I think the problem with your $11/hr is that you use a lot of hours to get to that point. Its like the inverse principal of skipping a Starbucks cup of coffee everyday and investing the money instead and you’ll end up a millionaire. $11/hr for a year is almost $100,000.

No, the costs were there, but the value I already have gotten out of my stays is greater than the original cost of those points. So why would I continue to count those original costs when they already gave me more value than I paid out? That is why I only count maintenance fees now.

I’m glad you (and most others) enjoy their DVC purchase, but it seems that DVC owners never look at opportunity cost. I’ve seen people say “I paid $10,000 in 1999 and have vacationed for free since.” But that ignores that if they invested that money in the S&P 500 it would be worth $170,000 now.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

If you go to USO on a busy day, you will be waiting in fairly long lines for multiple attractions even with an unlimited express pass. Express lines for the main Harry Potter rides can easily hit 1.5hrs, Kong and Minions can easily hit hour.

I speak from repeated personal experience of going to USO around holidays. I always split between Disney and USO. Even with express passes I have typically waited in line longer at USOs top rides than Disney’s. Proper planning at Disney allows you minimize wait times.

Interesting! I know nothing of USO (no desire to visit) but I don’t think proper planning to avoid lines applies to just WDW. Wouldn’t the same, arrive early or ride at end of night principle hold true there as well?

 

[SaintsManiac]

Interesting! I know nothing of USO (no desire to visit) but I don’t think proper planning to avoid lines applies to just WDW. Wouldn’t the same, arrive early or ride at end of night principle hold true there as well?

It's definitely important to take advantage of Early Entry at Universal.

 

[DisLiss]

My biggest concern with paid fast passes is that, similar to the new ticket pricing, that it will likely do more for Disney's coffers than it will really do for crowds & wait times. And I understand that as a business, those coffers are of extreme importance.

But as a guest, I'd like them to at least try to find ways to reduce wait times while making their money.

The new ticket pricing as a "fix" to the crowd/wait situation seems unlikely to help to me. The summer & holidays are most busy because more people are able to vacation then, and no price increases for those times will changes that most people are available at those times. People will simply pay the higher price. They're not going to suddenly decide they're fine with taking their kids out of school if they never were before, or taking extra time from work if they never were before. Let's face it, most people, if able to go during a less busy time, are already doing so.

And I don't know that a paid fast pass will be any different. Yes, it will make Disney more money, but I don't know that it will help the guests very much.

 

[anomamatt]

If you go to USO on a busy day, you will be waiting in fairly long lines for multiple attractions even with an unlimited express pass. Express lines for the main Harry Potter rides can easily hit 1.5hrs, Kong and Minions can easily hit hour.

I speak from repeated personal experience of going to USO around holidays. I always split between Disney and USO. Even with express passes I have typically waited in line longer at USOs top rides than Disney’s. Proper planning at Disney allows you minimize wait times.

This is a very important point. While I have never waited >60 minutes for an express line at USO but for me EP waits are MUCH longer than FP+. WDW won't, but it would be a huge mess if WDW offered something similar to the express pass w/ deluxe hotels.

In my experience, the two products (EP vs FP+) do not provide close to the same experience.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

If you go to USO on a busy day, you will be waiting in fairly long lines for multiple attractions even with an unlimited express pass. Express lines for the main Harry Potter rides can easily hit 1.5hrs, Kong and Minions can easily hit hour.

I speak from repeated personal experience of going to USO around holidays. I always split between Disney and USO. Even with express passes I have typically waited in line longer at USOs top rides than Disney’s. Proper planning at Disney allows you minimize wait times.

Sorry you had such a bad experience with Express Pass. I would say that's not typical though. We went the week of Thanksgiving this year. Two of our 4 days were crowd level 10 (actual, not predicted) and the longest we waited with EP was 30 min each at Gringotts and Minions. We went to each of them mid afternoon which is on nobody's list of good touring strategies so we were not surprised or disappointed with those wait times. Gringotts had a standby time of 140 mins (didn't check for Minions).

I haven't been to Disney on a comparable CL10 day so I can't say that Disney wouldn't have been better but I was pretty happy with those wait times.