More changes coming to DVC...

[JETSDAD]

Who is retiring?

Paul Little...company is still going, he's just retiring.

 

[TexasChick123]

The “BIG ANNOUNCEMENT” from DVCRM is in fact big news to them but doesn’t really change DVC. They’re adding a west cost branch headed up by a former DVC guide and expanding hours.

 

[Katie L]

The “BIG ANNOUNCEMENT” from DVCRM is in fact big news to them but doesn’t really change DVC. They’re adding a west cost branch headed up by a former DVC guide and expanding hours.

lol. So cute.

 

[JETSDAD]

Also, the announcement from the one resale company was that they are opening a West Coast division and hiring Andy Berry.

ETA, @TexasChick123 beat me to it lol

 

[bwvBound]

Also, the announcement from the one resale company was that they are opening a West Coast division and hiring Andy Berry.

Is he the 'Andy' who recently left DVD with a list of customer info to whom he then sent email? That Andy?

 

[TexasChick123]

Is he the 'Andy' who recently left DVD with a list of customer info to whom he then sent email? That Andy?

I don’t know, but I would think so.

 

[kboo]

Possibly this will be an incentive for direct purchasers of Riviera to just hold on to their contracts since they still have the same rights as the L14. We might not see many contracts go up for sale.

And fewer resale contracts available would lead to a higher resale price, notwithstanding the resale restrictions.

 

[TheMick424]

Who is retiring?

PL at DVC Rental Store - posted in their FB group on April 18th

 

[SL6827]

If you are able to actually get into Riviera. I am thinking with the owners there, direct and resale, especially the resale owners, will you have a chance unless you own there? The resale owners won't be able to trade out into the L14 so how many rooms are going to be available at 7 months out for those who have eligible points to trade into there? Am I missing something here?

This is making me think that unless you own a direct contract at Riviera your chances may be very low to able to stay there and at the L14.

Owning direct at Riviera- can stay at Riviera and trade into the L14
Owning resale at Riviera- can only use that contract to stay at Riviera
Owning direct or eligible resale points at the L14- can stay at their home resorts, trade into other L14 and can trade into Riviera if there is availability. If there is availability. That is a big if after resales start.

 

[Dean]

I don't really understand why DVC feels the need to make more and more stringent restrictions. They have a quality product that has always sold well, maybe with the exception of Aulani, but there's reason for that which has nothing to do with resales. Part of the quality of the product was that it had kept it's value, so that if through some financial or other hardship a member needs to sell, they can get out relatively unscathed. To me all of this is just bad press, and demonstrating that they place no value on goodwill. JMHO

But that's just it, they actually have a history of underperforming on sales. Outside of maybe BCV, GF & WL; they've tended to lag their internal expectation. Back in the day we didn't have other non resort options specifically because VB & HH didn't sell well. SSR took forever, etc. Personally I think there are other reasons including lack of directed effort and overly optimistic sales goals given their approach. If a member can sell, DVD potentially lost a retail sale.

 

[Frederic Civish]

I've talked to a couple different guides in the last couple of weeks about purchasing AKV or RIV. One thing that they keep mentioning is the end of April developers credits will change. This can be expected with a new resort, however they also keep referencing the end of May changes will be coming...

These types of comments may be a sales tactic to get you to buy right now, however it has the opposite effect on my paranoid mind. This morning when discussing how disappointed I was in RIV resale restrictions my guide stated "Oh, there are more changes coming you can count on that...". We discussed how nobody expects to HAVE to sell their DVC contracts and that a strong resale market is a benefit to direct purchases not a deterrent. Bottom line is my tin foil hat is now on as I look over DVC announcements to come in the next couple months...

What exactly are they intimating? More changes as in, "You thought this was a junk move before, wait 'til you see what else we have in store?" Not sure what "Oh, there are more changes coming you cna count on that..." supposed to suggest, exactly. Any more context you can provide would be appreciated.

I’m also curious. Have they found a way to restrict all future resales to only the home resort going forward for all the resorts including L14? Lord, I hope not.

I don't really understand why DVC feels the need to make more and more stringent restrictions. They have a quality product that has always sold well, maybe with the exception of Aulani, but there's reason for that which has nothing to do with resales. Part of the quality of the product was that it had kept it's value, so that if through some financial or other hardship a member needs to sell, they can get out relatively unscathed. To me all of this is just bad press, and demonstrating that they place no value on goodwill. JMHO

Resale restrictions are a DISINCENTIVE to purchase Riviera. Not sure why any sales person would try to use that as a reason to buy Riviera direct. Doesn't make sense and makes me wonder about the competency of the sales person.

Could be a reason to buy CCV direct, though if that was on the table. Of course, that assumes the buyer values the ability to stay at the Riviera. If not, buying CCV resale still gives the buyer to stay at every other currently existing DVC resort.

They can't do that, though. The issue is how the points are declared into the association. They can change UY, but they can't change how the resort was declared into BVT. Literally, it is the resort that has a relationship with BVT, not the individual owner.

Because Riviera is being declared with specific rules, they can restrict resale into BVT. They cannot retroactively do that with the previously-declared resorts. They would have to dissolve BVT entirely and have each resort join under new terms. While possible, that is huge, expensive and not something they could manage under the radar, especially since it touches VGC and Aulani and thus CA and HI state laws around timeshares.

Like I said before, who's running the store? The Keystone Cops? Disney is messing up with Riviera in ways that don't even make sense. Their restrictions on future resale purchasers at Riviera just makes Riviera worse. Maybe they are doing it in an attempt to take control of Riviera Resales, but Poor Demand for Riviera Resale will only let them control a poor, and cripple product.

Is there anyone who can explain to me, in any way, how their restrictions on Riviera resales purchasers even make sense?

Meanwhile, if they try to push the owners, including resales owners, at the Legacy 14 resorts, with too many more restrictions and changes, then they will be creating their own legal challenges. Because people will only put up with so much before they get fed up, and people are close to that point already.

Is Disney expecting that no one will be willing to challenge them in court? If that is the case, they should think again. Many purchasers of DVC are professions, including people in the legal profession. Many others are in upper income brackets and are used to getting what they want, and are not only WILLING to fight Disney, but financially ABLE to fight Disney.

So far, only Aulani has been showing signs of really being 'crippled. But it wont take many more 'brilliant' changes at Riviera, to put it into the same category.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Like I said before, who's running the store? The Keystone Cops? Disney is messing up with Riviera in ways that don't even make sense. Their restrictions on future resale purchasers at Riviera just makes Riviera worse. Maybe they are doing it in an attempt to take control of Riviera Resales, but Poor Demand for Riviera Resale will only let them control a poor, and cripple product.

Is there anyone who can explain to me, in any way, how their restrictions on Riviera resales purchasers even make sense?

Meanwhile, if they try to push the owners, including resales owners, at the Legacy 14 resorts, with too many more restrictions and changes, then they will be creating their own legal challenges. Because people will only put up with so much before they get fed up, and people are close to that point already.

Is Disney expecting that no one will be willing to challenge them in court? If that is the case, they should think again. Many purchasers of DVC are professions, including people in the legal profession. Many others are in upper income brackets and are used to getting what they want, and are not only WILLING to fight Disney, but financially ABLE to fight Disney.

So far, only Aulani has been showing signs of really being 'crippled. But it wont take many more 'brilliant' changes at Riviera, to put it into the same category.

The impressions I get from these things they have done or attempted in the past year is that once again that we are simply sheeple who will buy anything because DVC say it’s good and we love Disney beyond measure or thought. It is an attitude that was last prevalent under Jim Lewis.

 

[ljmiii]

I hear you, but many said they couldn’t make a substantial change to a new resort’s trading ability and still have it be part of the club...FTR, I agree that they can’t do it for legal reasons, but it hasn’t stopped them yet.

Allowing an entrance on different terms was always legal. The issue is more changing terms on resorts already in.

From BWV's Declaration of Condominium...

Appendix (H) - DVC Resort Agreement
1.15 DVC Reservation Component shall mean the exchange component of the Club central reservation system through which Vacation Homes in any DVC resort may be reserved...

VI. Other DVC Resorts
6.1 In the event BVTC associates one or more additional resorts as DVC Resorts, the DVC Resort Agreement executed to effect such association shall be substantially similar to this Agreement in all material respects under the circumstances pertaining to each additional DVC Resort.

From DRR's Declaration of Condominium...

Exhibit (G) - DVC Resort Agreement
1.11 DVC Reservation Component shall mean the exchange component of the Club central reservation system through with Vacation Homes in any DVC Resort may be reserved by certain Club Members...

It is difficult to imagine a more material dissimilarity in an Agreement that lays out the regulations for trading into other DVC resorts than the inability to do so.

 

[crvetter]

From BWV's Declaration of Condominium...

Appendix (H) - DVC Resort Agreement
1.15 DVC Reservation Component shall mean the exchange component of the Club central reservation system through which Vacation Homes in any DVC resort may be reserved...

VI. Other DVC Resorts
6.1 In the event BVTC associates one or more additional resorts as DVC Resorts, the DVC Resort Agreement executed to effect such association shall be substantially similar to this Agreement in all material respects under the circumstances pertaining to each additional DVC Resort.

From DRR's Declaration of Condominium...

Exhibit (G) - DVC Resort Agreement
1.11 DVC Reservation Component shall mean the exchange component of the Club central reservation system through with Vacation Homes in any DVC Resort may be reserved by certain Cub Members...

It is difficult to imagine a more material dissimilarity in an Agreement that lays out the regulations for trading into other DVC resorts than the inability to do so.

The complete sentence reads "1.15 DVC Reservation Component shall mean the exchange component of the Club central reservation system through which Vacation Homes in any DVC Resort may be reserved using DVC Vacation Points pursuant to priorities, restrictions and limitations established by BVTC from time to time and as set forth in the Disclosure Document."

The bolded is the part does imply to a degree the restrictions could have come about because the restrictions lie with within the Disclosure Document along with Riviera's DVC Resort Agreement. The question is does the restriction section in the DVC Resort Agreement really make it substantially different and would the court view it that way or was this section just simply reinforcing what they already said they could do and have done.

Also there is the section (6.2(b)) that said a resort could always be associated under its own terms and conditions. But then it says the association (only the association not terms and conditions) of a resort must be to the benefit of the Club Members as a whole. Considering most are allowed to trade into Riviera it does benefit the current Club Members. Could an argument be made on behalf of future Club Members (once a majority are resale members restricted)? I'm not sure about that perhaps others could answer.

Edit: Even if they could do this change it was sneaky and they destroy confidence in the product that people have bought into. If they ever try to back implement changes (to current owners) I would expect that is the day they kill DVC effectively (resale and direct).