Do You Consider Yourself a Feminist?

[kaytieeldr]

Pro life is about the preservation of life. A woman or child who is raped has had a part of her life taken from her. Her physical and mental health may be affected. Being impregnated was forced on her.

A woman whose birth control failed has also had a part of her life taken from her. With the extremely restrictive abortion laws being passed in some states, that woman is sool.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The Ohio law does not allow contraception that would prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg (they claim that is an abortion).

Asinime. You can't abort something that hasn't begun.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

I don't really watch her stuff, but Full Frontal with Samantha Bee has a piece on Sex Education for Senators. (a friend linked the FB post to me on FB. I won't post the link here because of the language involved.) A serious topic, with her brand of humor.

 

[Snowysmom]

Back to the question, probably not a feminist. I believe in equality for women and men.

 

[kiddo76]

Did he also give up the responsibility?

No. He chose to take responsibility for any child he helped create before he had sex.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I won't post the link here because

Easily available on youtube thanks!

 

[luvsJack]

Plain and simple, pro life is about power. It is about thinking you should have the power to decide what women do with their bodies. It is about being pro birth, not pro life.

No. It’s about a voice for the voiceless.

 

[luvsJack]

The Ohio law does not allow contraception that would prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg (they claim that is an abortion). So an iud and most birth control pills because they have the duel effect of minimizing the possibility of fertilization and change the lining of the uterus to prevent implantation.

That is a seperate law and hasn’t passed. And the guy presenting it is an idiot.

 

[luvsJack]

No. He chose to take responsibility for any child he helped create before he had sex.

And you honestly feel that is equal?

She has the choice to end the pregnancy of a child he may want. He has no voice.

She can choose to keep the child that he may not want and has the ability to keep said child away from him by simply leaving him off the birth certificate. And he has no voice.

But yet when she wants him to take monetary responsibility suddenly he is the father.

Why is his responsibility held differently from her’s?

 

[MrsPete]

This board is not a representative sample of the country as a whole. We're richer, whiter and more educated. And maternal outcomes vary immensely by income, race and location. So there's a very good chance that few of us here will have personal stories to share about friends or relatives who died in childbirth. But that doesn't negate the statistics.

It's true that this board isn't representative of all America. I also realized -- after asking who knew someone personally who'd died as a result of pregnancy /childbirth -- that the answers are skewed in that the question cannot include a control group. I was trying to gauge how real pregnancy /childbirth deaths are -- and I was trying to eliminate the "friend of a friend of a friend" or "read it somewhere on the internet".

What I ended up with -- I think -- was three people who personally knew someone who'd died ... and a lot of "almost died" stories. Those "almost died" stories are total wins; those are the women who "back in the day" would've died from pregnancy /childbirth. Modern medicine for the win. Is it perfect? No, but the vast, vast majority of women live through pregnancy /childbirth.

I don't recall anything in our vows or our marriage license saying that I became less than a fully functional adult when I agreed to marry DH. Marriage should be a partnership between two full and complete people, not an arrangement by which either has to surrender their own rights on the altar of their relationship.

And, as such, each person does give up some freedom to become part of a team /to reap the benefits of a lifelong partnership -- it's something that happens naturally when you promise to stay with that person always, come hell or high water. You're thinking of one person being the boss of the other -- that's not what I mean at all. Here's a real-life example of a perfectly healthy marriage in which some freedom was lost:

Twice in our 29 year marriage, my husband has been offered a good job in another state. With each offer, it would've been a big win for him -- more money, better job -- and if he'd been single, he could've rented a U-Haul the very next day and headed out of town saying, "Bye, Y'all, I'm outta here!" But as a married man, he's part of a team, and he has to consider me too. In each case, him taking the job would've been a big loss for me: my job, my seniority, my pension. In each case, we decided together what to do -- but, as I said, he gave up the freedom to jump at what was best for him when we married. Incidentally, in both cases I turned out to be "the winner" -- he turned down both jobs. Why? In both cases we decided that me leaving the pension system would have more than negated the extra money he would've earned /my job was more secure than his. But, yeah, in this situation he lost some of his freedom in that he had to consider "the team" before he could accept what would've been good for him.

Plain and simple, pro life is about power. It is about thinking you should have the power to decide what women do with their bodies. It is about being pro birth, not pro life.

No, pro-life is not about being the boss of other women; it's about speaking for the babies who have no voice of their own.

Back to the question, probably not a feminist. I believe in equality for women and men.

Equality, yes. Feminism, no. As I said in my first post on this thread, feminism -- in actual practice -- seems to be more about putting men down (and other women too) than bringing women up.

No. He chose to take responsibility for any child he helped create before he had sex.

That's the male equivalent of personal responsibility /the male equivalent of "use your birth control properly and every time" ... but Biology makes it a bit less evident.

For some reason this makes me think of a student of mine from years ago. She was a senior, and it was the week before graduation. She came to my classroom BOO-HOO CRYING. I mean, crying to the point that she was shaking and could barely speak. I thought she was injured somehow because she was crying so hard.

Once she calmed down a bit, she explained that she'd known for about two weeks that she was pregnant, and her boyfriend had just told her -- the jerk told her casually between classes -- that he would not be able to help her financially with the baby because he was already helping his previous girlfriend who was raising his first child. I told her that wasn't HIS CHOICE, that the child had legal rights to his support, and that I'd get her together with the school social worker, who could give her more details about how to initiate that process. She was AMAZED. She had no idea that she had rights, that the child had rights.

Poor thing started crying all over again, but this time it was with relief. I find it hard to believe that any woman -- well, she was a girl -- would "let a man off the hook" so lightly /excuse him from 18 years of responsibility.

Why is his responsibility held differently from her’s?

Biology -- some things can never be equal. And it's hers, not her's.

 

[luvsJack]

It's true that this board isn't representative of all America. I also realized -- after asking who knew someone personally who'd died as a result of pregnancy /childbirth -- that the answers are skewed in that the question cannot include a control group. I was trying to gauge how real pregnancy /childbirth deaths are -- and I was trying to eliminate the "friend of a friend of a friend" or "read it somewhere on the internet".

What I ended up with -- I think -- was three people who personally knew someone who'd died ... and a lot of "almost died" stories. Those "almost died" stories are total wins; those are the women who "back in the day" would've died from pregnancy /childbirth. Modern medicine for the win. Is it perfect? No, but the vast, vast majority of women live through pregnancy /childbirth.
And, as such, each person does give up some freedom to become part of a team /to reap the benefits of a lifelong partnership -- it's something that happens naturally when you promise to stay with that person always, come hell or high water. You're thinking of one person being the boss of the other -- that's not what I mean at all. Here's a real-life example of a perfectly healthy marriage in which some freedom was lost:

Twice in our 29 year marriage, my husband has been offered a good job in another state. With each offer, it would've been a big win for him -- more money, better job -- and if he'd been single, he could've rented a U-Haul the very next day and headed out of town saying, "Bye, Y'all, I'm outta here!" But as a married man, he's part of a team, and he has to consider me too. In each case, him taking the job would've been a big loss for me: my job, my seniority, my pension. In each case, we decided together what to do -- but, as I said, he gave up the freedom to jump at what was best for him when we married. Incidentally, in both cases I turned out to be "the winner" -- he turned down both jobs. Why? In both cases we decided that me leaving the pension system would have more than negated the extra money he would've earned /my job was more secure than his. But, yeah, in this situation he lost some of his freedom in that he had to consider "the team" before he could accept what would've been good for him.
No, pro-life is not about being the boss of other women; it's about speaking for the babies who have no voice of their own.
Equality, yes. Feminism, no. As I said in my first post on this thread, feminism -- in actual practice -- seems to be more about putting men down (and other women too) than bringing women up.
That's the male equivalent of personal responsibility /the male equivalent of "use your birth control properly and every time" ... but Biology makes it a bit less evident.

For some reason this makes me think of a student of mine from years ago. She was a senior, and it was the week before graduation. She came to my classroom BOO-HOO CRYING. I mean, crying to the point that she was shaking and could barely speak. I thought she was injured somehow because she was crying so hard.

Once she calmed down a bit, she explained that she'd known for about two weeks that she was pregnant, and her boyfriend had just told her -- the jerk told her casually between classes -- that he would not be able to help her financially with the baby because he was already helping his previous girlfriend who was raising his first child. I told her that wasn't HIS CHOICE, that the child had legal rights to his support, and that I'd get her together with the school social worker, who could give her more details about how to initiate that process. She was AMAZED. She had no idea that she had rights, that the child had rights.

Poor thing started crying all over again, but this time it was with relief. I find it hard to believe that any woman -- well, she was a girl -- would "let a man off the hook" so lightly /excuse him from 18 years of responsibility.
Biology -- some things can never be equal. And it's hers, not her's.

Oops. Hers.

I don’t think a boy/man should be able to just walk away. I do believe that all should be held responsible for any child they help make. It’s shocking how many grown women refuse to hold the father of their children responsible for the support of the children. My kids know a guy that has 5 children by 4 different women. He currently takes care of one of the children and he is married to that mother. None of these people were teens when these children were born. Not only do they not hold him responsible but 2 of them are still friends with him, will help him out in a jam, fill in for him in his business, etc. It totally blows my mind.

And no I don’t expect everything to be equal but to hear stories from a young guy excited to be a dad and then he find out she got an abortion is heartbreaking. Or the opposite when he isn’t told a thing until the birth and then she “introduces” him to the child with her hand out. (True story, happened to the son of a former coworker)

He can’t carry the baby or give birth but if he agreed to be responsible when they had sex; shouldn’t we consider that she chose to make him part of the decision when she chose to have sex with him?

 

[shelemm]

This is where you start losing me by explaining everything you don’t like by male plots. If you want to look at groups that have done well even though the attitudes of many were against them look at some of the Asian immigrant groups to the US or Pakistani immigrants to the UK. These groups have done well in spite of others attitudes. This for me is where it becomes victimhood. For me each individual is rightfully guaranteed equality under the law and the rest is left to the individual to achieve their goals. For goodness sake you are more than 50% of the US population and you are still the victims.

I didn't say anything about a plot. There are prevalent attitudes as proven by consistently lower salaries for female grads. I am not sure exactly what you are against except for a general 'boogeyman' argument regarding feminists. If you are against the ERA, then say so and explain why.

 

[just stella]

Yep, to the original question, happily and proudly! I can't really fathom NOT being as such.

 

[pahoben]

No. It’s about a voice for the voiceless.

So you make the mother voiceless and the State legislature is the voice of the embryo?

 

[pahoben]

I didn't say anything about a plot. There are prevalent attitudes as proven by consistently lower salaries for female grads. I am not sure exactly what you are against except for a general 'boogeyman' argument regarding feminists. If you are against the ERA, then say so and explain why.

I explained many times I am a very strong proponent of equal rights under the law. You have no desire to understand any contrary position since you just create a strawman from my words and attack that. No reason at all to respond to this just defending my beliefs and wouldn’t have answered otherwise.

I don’t know where this comes from. The major hirers of graduates are Corporations that have salaries based on specific and long standing job descriptions that have no basis on sex. An entry level engineer makes x and an entry level accountant makes y. The salaries are very specific. Male and female entry level engineers have the same salaries. Corporations approve offers for recruitment purposes that are the entry level engineers salaries and with the entry level engineer job description. Never ever in my experience have the recruitment offers varied by sex.

 

[shelemm]

I think there are some folks on this board who are angry that the dad doesn't get treated 'equally' in the court system when it comes tp child custody. Thsi is a separate issue from pay scales and seeing women in leadership positions, and even whether abortion is accessible.

People say they are for equal rights, but those rights are very easily subverted, and I think to be a feminist means that you no longer want to put up with that. If you are using arguments about child custody practices in the court system to put down feminists, you are not really interested in all the ways that women get put down. i get it, you don't care.

It's all this "but what about..." ism. Dodging the major issues because of some gripe you have. Tampons should not be taxed! They are a medical necessity. Women in the sciences should recieve the same starting pay as the men. they should be viewed as candidates for leadership positions. Shouting a slogan like 'victimhood' does not make these things untrue or go away.

 

[luvsJack]

So you make the mother voiceless and the State legislature is the voice of the embryo?

She isn’t voiceless.

 

[ScottOKW2K]

deleted

 

[luvsJack]

I think there are some folks on this board who are angry that the dad doesn't get treated 'equally' in the court system when it comes tp child custody. Thsi is a separate issue from pay scales and seeing women in leadership positions, and even whether abortion is accessible.

People say they are for equal rights, but those rights are very easily subverted, and I think to be a feminist means that you no longer want to put up with that. If you are using arguments about child custody practices in the court system to put down feminists, you are not really interested in all the ways that women get put down. i get it, you don't care.

It's all this "but what about..." ism. Dodging the major issues because of some gripe you have. Tampons should not be taxed! They are a medical necessity. Women in the sciences should recieve the same starting pay as the men. they should be viewed as candidates for leadership positions. Shouting a slogan like 'victimhood' does not make these things untrue or go away.

If you are referring to my posts, it has nothing to do with child custody. And I have no anger over child custody courts as I haven’t personally had issue with one.

Equal rights is equal rights for every human. Not just for women.

Not sure what not taxing a product is going to do. In my states it’s .07 on the dollar. Not really enough to be up in arms about. But if it’s something you feel strong enough about, go for it. I just don’t see it as a “major issue”.


How exactly do women get put down?

 

[shelemm]

I explained many times I am a very strong proponent of equal rights under the law. You have no desire to understand any contrary position since you just create a strawman from my words and attack that. No reason at all to respond to this just defending my beliefs and wouldn’t have answered otherwise.

I don’t know where this comes from. The major hirers of graduates are Corporations that have salaries based on specific and long standing job descriptions that have no basis on sex. An entry level engineer makes x and an entry level accountant makes y. The salaries are very specific. Male and female entry level engineers have the same salaries. Corporations approve offers for recruitment purposes that are the entry level engineers salaries and with the entry level engineer job description. Never ever in my experience have the recruitment offers varied by sex.

It all sounds nice, but I get the impression that you are using some kind of deductive reasoning or wishful thinking or personal anecdotes. There are so many studies that say that this not true. For math and computer sciences, the expected pay gap for recent doctoral grads is 14k, and that comes from a study by Nature. They do say that in chemistry, women may have even surpassed men! So there is progress. Though in general that is not where the big money is. The Nature study is hardly the only one.