Lack of crowds and Disney's response

[EmJ]

Got to the parks for opening this morning and was here earlier this week and today “feels” considerably more crowded both in terms of general crowd levels walking around and some wait times, almost like a typical Friday whereas Wednesday was one of the lightest (best) days I’ve experienced in a long time.

Did it feel busier everywhere, or just longer lines? I read somewhere else that Disney reduced staffing and... throughput, I guess? Like having fewer boats running, fewer trains, etc.

 

[agamble]

At DCA today. Noticeably busier than Wednesday since pulling into the garage. The park feels busy and we are waiting 45 min for Toy Story. Not horrible but not fun either. And it has had a 40+ min wait all day

 

[MillauFr]

I feel like Disney is trying to phase out the Deluxe pass like they did the Southern California pass, maybe in favor of the Flex pass? Or was the Flex pass a response to so many annual passholders opting not to renew?

Eventually Disney is going to phase out all of the unlimited passes. They will move to a point system where they will require a reservation for all annual passes. The points required each day you reserve will be variable based on how many reservations are made.

 

[bwvBound]

Eventually Disney is going to phase out all of the unlimited passes. They will move to a point system where they will require a reservation for all annual passes. The points required each day you reserve will be variable based on how many reservations are made.

Sounds like timeshare.

 

[MillauFr]

Sounds like timeshare.

No more like the freeway tolling system we are implementing in Seattle

 

[tarheelalum]

Eventually Disney is going to phase out all of the unlimited passes. They will move to a point system where they will require a reservation for all annual passes. The points required each day you reserve will be variable based on how many reservations are made.

Not a chance of this ever happening at Disneyland.

 

[Lauren in NC]

Maybe some of this is because their shoppers chose poorly. The shirts we saw were not attractive.

Yes. We were surprised when we stopped by the Disney outlet near us prior to our trip and saw a bunch of Galaxy's Edge t-shirts reduced to $6. Also - there were so many things we'd seen pictures of, either before or after, that we would've bought had they been in stock at DL: droid backpacks, one of the legacy lightsabers, Sabac cards, etc. On the one hand, I can't be too mad since we spent much less than we budgeted, but that's hundreds of dollars left on the table for Disney. There were tons of some items but they were, well, ugly or not something we'd ever heard of.

 

[skyblue17]

I just looked at what a one day ticket for today would cost and could not believe a one park day ticket was $149. That is absolute insanity. I don’t blame people for staying away.

Oh man, I wish it was this! I looked to see how much a park-hopper with MaxPass for the day I want to go is and it's closer to $210! And that's fine, I will pay that, but I'm definitely keeping an eye on crowds and experiences heading up to that day, because that is a LOT to pay to be stuck in lines all day and not be able to get FPs. I'm hoping the shift in crowds is a slow burn, and that people who opted not to make travel plans (as in, fly out for days) this summer don't change course last minute!

 

[MillauFr]

Not a chance of this ever happening at Disneyland.

Why not? Government is using variable pricing to balance supply and demand. Why wouldn't a private company do it also? Three of the major freeways in Seattle have installed variable tolling to control demand. It could work at Disneyland as well.

 

[DLgal]

Why not? Government is using variable pricing to balance supply and demand. Why wouldn't a private company do it also? Three of the major freeways in Seattle have installed variable tolling to control demand. It could work at Disneyland as well.

Why not? Because it isn't necessary. They have already seen what happens when they simply blackout the lower level passes. The parks are empty. All they would need to do in the future, if the parks get too crowded, is simply eliminate one or more AP tiers. Their blackout this summer was far too aggressive, clearly. They won't make that mistake again. Watch them bring back the 13 months for the price of 12 AP deal again, just to entice people to renew.

 

[gottalovepluto]

Why not? Government is using variable pricing to balance supply and demand. Why wouldn't a private company do it also? Three of the major freeways in Seattle have installed variable tolling to control demand. It could work at Disneyland as well.

I concur with the above poster transitioning APs to a points system is not happening. Not only because there has never been a credible rumor or whiff of Disney considering it but mainly because I see no reason for it.

 

[MillauFr]

I concur with the above poster transitioning APs to a points system is not happening. Not only because there has never been a credible rumor or whiff of Disney considering it but mainly because I see no reason for it.

Blocking out the lower level passes is too drastic of a step to take. It results in the parks being empty like we have seen during the last month. Disney needs a better system that can react real time to balance supply and demand. As soon as the lower level passes are unblocked you will see massive lines due to pent up demand. The current system is like using a hammer to install a screw. It is too heavy handed and results in empty parks or jammed conditions.

 

[gottalovepluto]

Blocking out the lower level passes is too drastic of a step to take. It results in the parks being empty like we have seen during the last month. Disney needs a better system that can react real time to balance supply and demand. As soon as the lower level passes are unblocked you will see massive lines due to pent up demand. The current system is like using a hammer to install a screw. It is too heavy handed and results in empty parks or jammed conditions.

Or Disney could run specials to counter the stupidly high inflation they’ve instituted on general public tickets and maybe the general public that is supposed to be there during high travel times will show back up again.

 

[tarheelalum]

Blocking out the lower level passes is too drastic of a step to take. It results in the parks being empty like we have seen during the last month. Disney needs a better system that can react real time to balance supply and demand. As soon as the lower level passes are unblocked you will see massive lines due to pent up demand. The current system is like using a hammer to install a screw. It is too heavy handed and results in empty parks or jammed conditions.

There is no perfect way to do it. People in SoCal go when they want to go, because they want to go. And if they pay through the nose they can do that anytime they want and there is no way to plan for that. Team Disney Anaheim knows not to mess with the goose that lays the golden egg. Star Wars' lackluster attendance is a perfect example of how Disney is at the mercy of their Annual Pass holders. They built the biggest IP Land ever and its been basically dead its first week open to the public. IF they lift the blackout dates on the lower passes it will be packed tomorrow. They know they can turn on the money faucet anytime they want.

This week they were trying to get the high end customers. But they are having to cut CM hours like crazy because those people are not showing up. I wish I had a work trip to LA this week! !!! This is why, from a dollars and cents perspective, annual pass holders are more important than single day or multi-day ticket buyers. The pass holders will show up in mass like clock work when there blackout dates are lifted. But the multi-day ticket buyers are fickle. They worry about crowds and this and that and the other. If your running a business the last thing in the world you want to rely on is a fickle customer base. You want steady money that the annual pass holders give you. Customers complain about the pass holders but as long as they keep coming and making money for TDA, Disney couldn't care less. They will give lip service to the problem but then turn around and hand out discounts to pack the parks. Its always about the dollars and the pass holders bring in the dollars.

 

[MillauFr]

Or Disney could run specials to counter the stupidly high inflation they’ve instituted on general public tickets and maybe the general public that is supposed to be there during high travel times will show back up again.

I don't believe the increase in ticket prices has anything to do with light attendance in the last month. It is blocking annual pass holders and the expectations among visitors of massive crowds due to the Star Wars land opening. Just look at these boards over the last 6 months. The non-Star Wars fans were rushing to get their trips in before Star Wars opened.

 

[midnight star]

I don't believe the increase in ticket prices has anything to do with light attendance in the last month. It is blocking annual pass holders and the expectations among visitors of massive crowds due to the Star Wars land opening. Just look at these boards over the last 6 months. The non-Star Wars fans were rushing to get their trips in before Star Wars opened.

I think it’s a mixture of both. First is everyone is scared away. Second, I think with Disney’s pricing, people realized they can take trips other places for the same price or maybe even a little less. So people could still technically afford to go, but they don’t want to pay all that money to be stuck in “crowds” all day.

 

[gottalovepluto]

I don't believe the increase in ticket prices has anything to do with light attendance in the last month. It is blocking annual pass holders and the expectations among visitors of massive crowds due to the Star Wars land opening. Just look at these boards over the last 6 months. The non-Star Wars fans were rushing to get their trips in before Star Wars opened.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one because I think it’s both. Tickets to the general public were 30% cheaper in the 5 months leading up to SW opening. To most, admittedly not all, people that’s a noticeable amount of money for a family that will easily determine whether or not a specific vacation happens. I know a few families with tighter budgets where I live who suddenly found Disneyland a doable trip with the Spring special and they jumped. Disneyland is just too expensive for the general public right now for what it’s offering.

 

[Elle23]

Oh man, I wish it was this! I looked to see how much a park-hopper with MaxPass for the day I want to go is and it's closer to $210! And that's fine, I will pay that, but I'm definitely keeping an eye on crowds and experiences heading up to that day, because that is a LOT to pay to be stuck in lines all day and not be able to get FPs. I'm hoping the shift in crowds is a slow burn, and that people who opted not to make travel plans (as in, fly out for days) this summer don't change course last minute!

Yes, what I quoted was just for one park and no max pass.

 

[skyblue17]

Yes, what I quoted was just for one park and no max pass.

Which is not something I would want to risk at a time where crowds are supposed to be higher. It's so easy to hop, and I loved being able to get a FP for one park while in the other. Losing this on a heavy crowd day seems like it'd be worse than not having it on a low crowd day!

 

[dieumeye]

There is no perfect way to do it. People in SoCal go when they want to go, because they want to go. And if they pay through the nose they can do that anytime they want and there is no way to plan for that. Team Disney Anaheim knows not to mess with the goose that lays the golden egg. Star Wars' lackluster attendance is a perfect example of how Disney is at the mercy of their Annual Pass holders. They built the biggest IP Land ever and its been basically dead its first week open to the public. IF they lift the blackout dates on the lower passes it will be packed tomorrow. They know they can turn on the money faucet anytime they want.

This week they were trying to get the high end customers. But they are having to cut CM hours like crazy because those people are not showing up. I wish I had a work trip to LA this week! !!! This is why, from a dollars and cents perspective, annual pass holders are more important than single day or multi-day ticket buyers. The pass holders will show up in mass like clock work when there blackout dates are lifted. But the multi-day ticket buyers are fickle. They worry about crowds and this and that and the other. If your running a business the last thing in the world you want to rely on is a fickle customer base. You want steady money that the annual pass holders give you. Customers complain about the pass holders but as long as they keep coming and making money for TDA, Disney couldn't care less. They will give lip service to the problem but then turn around and hand out discounts to pack the parks. Its always about the dollars and the pass holders bring in the dollars.

I wonder what impact this whole situation will have on future attraction openings/events (RotR, Marvel Land, Runaway Railway, future FL expansion and/or TL overhaul, etc).

From a guest experience perspective (at least in my opinion) the opening of SWGE was a success. They had an aggressive plan to combat crowds, and it has been great! Smooth entry (remember all the worry about camping for days?), low wait times (remember the 6+ hour lines predictions?), and also they didn't do a controversial "pay to play" paid preview. I had hoped that this effort was a sign that they are serious about finding a way to manage crowds at DL for the long term.

But, it seems like there's some collateral damage in overall park attendance. I hope this doesn't mean that next time they'll say "screw it" and just let the madness happen. Even if there's nothing on the scale of SWGE in the foreseeable future, going forward I hope they remember what worked about this opening from a guest standpoint, and not focus only on the possibly negative business aspects.