Disney Buses

[TipsyTraveler]

With it just being the three of you, I don’t understand people giving you attitude at all. They should just be thankful that they don’t need the ECV.

But I will say, once when we were at Pop, it got very frustrating to get up early and get to the bus stop, wait for the bus and it finally gets there and here comes a huge family with someone in an ECV They get on first and there goes the whole bus because of one family. I get the reasoning behind it and that’s fine. But otoh, it doesn’t take the entire family to ride with the one person. So while I don’t envy the family or the one person, it was still frustrating honestly. But there isn’t a perfect answer either.

My most recent trip to WDW last fall was 7 years after the previous one and there was, IME, a noticeable increase in the number of ECV users riding the buses. I was there for over two weeks riding the buses almost exclusively, and I honestly don’t think there was a single bus ride that didn’t first involve loading an ECV, but more often two, with sometimes a third or even fourth having to wait for the next bus. It was a such a consistent — and time consuming — part of the process that I started wondering if it wouldn’t be best for Disney to operate a separate service for transporting them. Something like a disability-equipped van service, similar to the Minnie Vans but at no cost. I think that would fall within ADA guidelines and be a better solution for everyone overall? ECV riders and their families would have access to free (and probably more comfortable) transportation that runs as consistently as the buses currently do, and it relieves the bus system of all the ECV loading delays.

The only party who wouldn’t benefit, potentially, is Disney since they would have to invest resources into this. But truthfully, there’s going to come a point where they’ll have to do something to address the increasing inefficiency of the bus system, and I imagine this solution would be less costly than running more buses to compensate.

 

[kaytieeldr]

It was a such a consistent — and time consuming — part of the process that I started wondering if it wouldn’t be best for Disney to operate a separate service for transporting them. Something like a disability-equipped van service, similar to the Minnie Vans but at no cost.

I was going to say "no", and provide an in-depth explanation (efficiency, fleet cost, discrimination...) But really, competition with MinnieVans covers it all

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I was going to say "no", and provide an in-depth explanation (efficiency, fleet cost, discrimination...) But really, competition with MinnieVans covers it all

Are Minnie Vans equipped to transport ECVs? If not, I don’t see how a free disability van service would be in competition with that.

My thought was that vans equipped to transport ECVs would run in conjunction with the bus service, operating on a continual pick-up/drop-off route, not that users would have to call for them specifically like the Minnie Vans. There were certainly enough ECV users waiting at the bus stops to warrant a full-time service, IMO.

 

[luvsJack]

I was going to say "no", and provide an in-depth explanation (efficiency, fleet cost, discrimination...) But really, competition with MinnieVans covers it all

How would providing a free transportation service that would be more efficient than what is provided now be discrimination?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I was going to say "no", and provide an in-depth explanation (efficiency, fleet cost, discrimination...) But really, competition with MinnieVans covers it all

I think there's a difference between not accommodating at all and a different accommodation. We have separate types of school buses that accommodate an array of disabilities not just physical and I don't think anyone views that, well ok I've never heard of it, as discrimination (the unfortunate stigma that still exists aside).

 

[DisneyOma]

My most recent trip to WDW last fall was 7 years after the previous one and there was, IME, a noticeable increase in the number of ECV users riding the buses. I was there for over two weeks riding the buses almost exclusively, and I honestly don’t think there was a single bus ride that didn’t first involve loading an ECV, but more often two, with sometimes a third or even fourth having to wait for the next bus. It was a such a consistent — and time consuming — part of the process that I started wondering if it wouldn’t be best for Disney to operate a separate service for transporting them. Something like a disability-equipped van service, similar to the Minnie Vans but at no cost. I think that would fall within ADA guidelines and be a better solution for everyone overall? ECV riders and their families would have access to free (and probably more comfortable) transportation that runs as consistently as the buses currently do, and it relieves the bus system of all the ECV loading delays.

The only party who wouldn’t benefit, potentially, is Disney since they would have to invest resources into this. But truthfully, there’s going to come a point where they’ll have to do something to address the increasing inefficiency of the bus system, and I imagine this solution would be less costly than running more buses to compensate.

They already have, with the gondola system. It covers four resorts so far, and can handle ECVs.

I think there's a difference between not accommodating at all and a different accommodation. We have separate types of school buses that accommodate an array of disabilities not just physical and I don't think anyone views that, well ok I've never heard of it, as discrimination (the unfortunate stigma that still exists aside).

Schools buses for students with special needs fall under IDEA, not ADA. I don't think there's any language about discrimination in IDEA based on what transport system is used.

 

[kaytieeldr]

How would providing a free transportation service that would be more efficient than what is provided now be discrimination?

You would need as many paratransit vans operating exactly the same routing as the Disney buses for the service to be equitable. Separate but equal is actually not equal.

Then your need as many specially trained drivers as bus drivers. Then you have their wages, payroll taxes, etc.

The you have single large parties taking up the entire vehicle. It wouldn't have room for a second ECV, or if it did, not their party.

Then your have high-level guests envious of what seems to be private transportation - maybe even to the point of getting a wheelchair to obtain the same level of service.

I think there's a difference between not accommodating at all and a different accommodation. We have separate types of school buses that accommodate an array of disabilities not just physical and I don't think anyone views that, well ok I've never heard of it, as discrimination (the unfortunate stigma that still exists aside).

Disney already does accommodate mobility device users (well, except with some boats). Disney transportation doesn't operate like school buses. Your typical school bus can't accommodate a mobility device. If it could, they wouldn't need separate buses.

Are Minnie Vans equipped to transport ECVs?

Yes, some are.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Disney already does accommodate mobility device users (well, except with some boats). Disney transportation doesn't operate like school buses. Your typical school bus can't accommodate a mobility device. If it could, they wouldn't need separate buses.

What do you mean can't accommodate? Maybe you're not aware of what I'm talking about but special needs buses (and I don't mean that in an insulting way) are normally just regular buses that have been modified to accommodate mobility devices and other types of disabilities (though often they aren't the same length as a normal school bus). Schools are opting not to convert all their buses to accommodate some students who would need them. They could physically (though costs could be a barrier) if they wanted to but instead they utilize a completely separate bus. Now there may be school districts out there that have a combo bus that is accessible at the same time as being used as the primary transportation but generally speaking that is not the case.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Schools buses for students with special needs fall under IDEA, not ADA. I don't think there's any language about discrimination in IDEA based on what transport system is used.

I wasn't talking about ADA nor in a legal sense. I don't think you'd find many people calling it discrimination when it is already commonplace in our schools and has been for a while.

 

[maxiesmom]

I wasn't talking about ADA nor in a legal sense. I don't think you'd find many people calling it discrimination when it is already commonplace in our schools and has been for a while.

Unfortunately the stigma that goes along with those separate buses still exists.

I think Disney's system for people with scooters/ECVs is just fine. It is the people who lack any compassion or any sort of patience that are the problem. If someone thinks waiting for a scooter or two to load is ruining their vacation, then, in my opinion that makes them pretty low. And separating out the scooter/ECV users so able bodied people don't have to deal with them, or don't have to be slightly inconvenienced by them, is not any sort of decent answer.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I wasn't talking about ADA nor in a legal sense. I don't think you'd find many people calling it discrimination when it is already commonplace in our schools and has been for a while.

Schools aren't multi-billion dollar publicly traded businesses.

Schools don't run buses constantly for up to 15 hours a day.

Schools are opting not to convert all their buses to accommodate some students who would need them. They could physically (though costs could be a barrier) if they wanted to but instead they utilize a completely separate bus.

Yes. Specially designed paratransit buses. As @DisneyOma stated above, schools are governed by a different set of rules/laws than the ADA. And right there in the post I quoted is the word separate.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Unfortunately the stigma that goes along with those separate buses still exists.

You must have missed this--

(the unfortunate stigma that still exists aside).

Can't help nasty thoughts people have and that exists on Disney buses towards those with mobility needs so clearly separate or not separate people will have some sort of opinion towards those in need; I've even read where some posters who have mobility needs would rather be off that bus because they don't want people staring.

Doesn't mean things one doesn't look towards the present method and see if there is room for improvement.

I think Disney's system for people with scooters/ECVs is just fine. It is the people who lack any compassion or any sort of patience that are the problem. If someone thinks waiting for a scooter or two to load is ruining their vacation, then, in my opinion that makes them pretty low. And separating out the scooter/ECV users so able bodied people don't have to deal with them, or don't have to be slightly inconvenienced by them, is not any sort of decent answer.

I think it's ok but I understand what the other person is meaning. Also the prevalence rate tends to coincide with people's opinions.

My comments have been primarily framed towards discrimination as it was put out there. I've seen some offsite hotels explicitly state that accessible transportation is available upon request or with advanced notice (the wording varies).

Now if it ruins someone's vacation..well let's be honest it's the DIS the simplist things can ruin someone's vacation. Doesn't mean we should discount the whole idea because one encountered (and I don't remember if it was actually said it ruined someone's vacation or now apologies on that front) a person who said that.

 

[kaytieeldr]

seen some offsite hotels explicitly state that accessible transportation is available upon request or with advanced notice (the wording varies).

Those hotels aren't providing all day/every day well into the evening transportation.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Schools aren't multi-billion dollar publicly traded businesses.

Schools don't run buses constantly for up to 15 hours a day.



Yes. Specially designed paratransit buses. As @DisneyOma stated above, schools are governed by a different set of rules/laws than the ADA. And right there in the post I quoted is the word separate.

Those hotels aren't providing all day/every day well into the evening transportation.

You said it would be discrimination, among other things correct?

If that is how you feel, and perhaps you do, no amount of ifs ands or buts, difference in operation would matter because it would simply be that they were offering a separate transportation for those needing it as opposed to being all in one.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Unfortunately the stigma that goes along with those separate buses still exists.

I think Disney's system for people with scooters/ECVs is just fine. It is the people who lack any compassion or any sort of patience that are the problem. If someone thinks waiting for a scooter or two to load is ruining their vacation, then, in my opinion that makes them pretty low. And separating out the scooter/ECV users so able bodied people don't have to deal with them, or don't have to be slightly inconvenienced by them, is not any sort of decent answer.

It has nothing to do with not wanting to “deal” with ECV users or having my vacation ruined by waiting for a scooter to load. The issue was that entire bus system seemed to be bogged down by the delays caused by loading and unloading. (And perhaps there were other reasons the system seemed out of wack like possibly fewer buses running, etc. I fully admit that I can’t say the increase in ECVs was the only factor affecting things.)

When I went in 2012, sometimes an ECV boarded the bus, sometimes not. When I went last fall, multiple ECVs were being loaded and unloaded at each stop. We’d wait at the resort bus stop where bus arrivals were routinely delayed and inconsistent. The bus would show up and first have to unload an ECV and their party, then load an ECV and their party, then load the next ECV and their party. Meanwhile, the schedule is so screwed up that the next bus heading to the same park has showed up and is waiting behind the first, jutting out into the roadway, which is blocking the other buses headed to other parks from getting past them to reach their pick-up location. So now, in addition to the busload of people waiting to board the ECV-loading bus, you have one or more other busloads of people waiting to disembark and then reload because the buses are backed up so badly they physically can’t get through. It was a zoo. And it was September at AKL, so not an unusually crowded time of year, either.

Then there was the issue of taking the buses in reverse, waiting in the mobs at park closing while each bus had to first take the time to load two ECVs and their parties before they could start loading the remaining passengers...

I started thinking there had to be a better way that would increase efficiency while appropriately caring for everyone’s needs. The Minnie Vans were new at the time and no doubt the reason a separate fleet of dedicated vehicles came to my mind as the possible solution.

 

[luvsJack]

You would need as many paratransit vans operating exactly the same routing as the Disney buses for the service to be equitable. Separate but equal is actually not equal.

Then your need as many specially trained drivers as bus drivers. Then you have their wages, payroll taxes, etc.

The you have single large parties taking up the entire vehicle. It wouldn't have room for a second ECV, or if it did, not their party.

Then your have high-level guests envious of what seems to be private transportation - maybe even to the point of getting a wheelchair to obtain the same level of service.


Disney already does accommodate mobility device users (well, except with some boats). Disney transportation doesn't operate like school buses. Your typical school bus can't accommodate a mobility device. If it could, they wouldn't need separate buses.



Yes, some are.

Drivers pay, payroll taxes and all of that doesn’t have a thing to do with discrimination. And you wouldn’t have to have the same number of buses. You would have to have to make sure they were as accessible as they are now. And the guests not having to wait any longer than they do now.

Not sure why the drivers would have to be any more trained than they are now. And you high level envious guests using unnecessary wheel chairs is already happening.

 

[luvsJack]

Those hotels aren't providing all day/every day well into the evening transportation.

A lot of them are. Not every 20 minutes perhaps but some of the hotels do provide bus service until well after park closing and later from Disney Springs.

 

[DeniseJH]

Oh, we've got attitude from some people waiting in line already when we arrive after them and can get on first. Some people say things like "oh great" or give a look. But I don't care. That's not my problem. My problem is seeing that my Mom is safe, and that we are following the rules. But MOST people understand and most are nice.

I got that when I took my mom, who was in a wheelchair, too. One family even discussed how they hoped we weren't going where they were, as they didn't want to have to wait. Huge sighs of relief from them when it became obvious we weren't. I wanted so badly to say something, but didn't. A family of 4 with two preteens - not a good example for those kids.

 

[momto2girls]

We haven't been to WDW for several years now. The huge crowds all.the.time, the extreme planning for every meal, the new FastPass system which also required us to plan months in advance, etc. finally turned us away. So, we sold our DVC and moved on.

However, even before that, we had given up the buses long before. We owned DVC at Bay Lake Towers. We chose it purposely so that we could walk to the MK. It was SO nice to be able to do that after a long day when everyone else was forming huge lines waiting for the buses. For the other parks we drove our rental car. I realize that at times it might have been faster to take the bus (if we hit it at the right time and it just arrived, and there was not a huge line of people waiting for it), but even if it was slower, we found that we just preferred to be able to get back into our own car, where we know that we had seats, could crank the AC, etc. The buses work for a lot of people but we hated them.

The last time we went, ordering an Uber or Lyft within WDW wasn't a thing yet. I don't think that the Minnie vans were either. I think that those are great options as well and would definitely use those if we didn't have a rental car.

 

[lorenae]

I don't stand on Disney buses. I allow others to board ahead of me and then I am at the front of the line for the next empty bus, where I will sit. I don't mind standing in line, I mind standing on a moving vehicle with nothing more than a strap above my head to hang onto.

Until you are FINALLY near the front of the line at park closing and two scooters roll in with 13 family members each.............and boom! You're standing.

Well, when you're bringing your 86 year old mother along because she still LOVES Disney, and she HAS to use an ECV, you do what you gotta do. Yeah it sucks you have to let the ECV and party on first, but my husband and I can't let her ride the bus by herself. I know this annoys a lot of people in the bus line, but I'm not sure how it could be improved. I bet a lot of people wish they'd just ban ECV's.

There is no way in hell I'll rent a car when going to DW. We take a boat or monorail when we can, and can't wait to try out the new skyliner. But the buses have been good in our experience, for the most part. We just consider it a part of the vacation and don't think about it much. oh and we also Uber sometimes, especially when we stay at Disney Springs.

Oh, I have NO problems with ECVs, and I know why they load them first. But I have seriously seen CROWDS of family members rush up with the ECV person to the bus stop as it pulls in, after I've been waiting 40 minutes already (two full buses gone).

Last time, there were two ECVs coming in just as the bus came in. And both ECVs had at least 12 people each with them. Maybe some just tagged along, and weren't even with them- who knows? And all of them boarded. That's why we were standing, and my GS fell- after we waited for a bus for over 40 minutes by that point. He was 5 years old. I was over 50.

Common courtesy, following the rules, etc- that's what I had an issue with.

I know why ECVs are loaded first, but (don't shoot me, please!!!!), can't they wait one bus load so that the 90 people in line can finally get moving? Then they load first on the very next bus. I have a minor disability myself, and standing in a line pains me, but I'm not yet ready to use an ECV or wheelchair. If you're in an ECV, would waiting for 20 minutes for the next bus be such an inconvenience, when others have been waiting for 40+ minutes, standing? In busy times, more buses would be the answer of course, but that hasn't happened to me yet. So in busy times, when the lines have exceeded 40 minutes, maybe others have to wait as well. (Oh, no. I'm going to get creamed here.)

This year, my friend and I are staying at Shades of Green. I've never stayed there before, but I'm happy it's walking distance to the TTC and to the monorail at the Poly! That means: a- bus less frequently to SOG, but definitely room for us and b- only have to bus to AK and back! Oh, and Disney Springs I guess.