"Ladies and Gentlemen" becoming an outdated term?

[Colleen27]

It simply isn't as formal. I was 100% sincere in my question, is there and equally formal term for the nonbinary? I know very little about this. They could add the 3rd term instead of changing it to a less formal greeting.

I think language can set a tone "Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen" sets a more serious tone than "Hi everyone!" , and that is important. We use verbal cues to infer what type of behavior is expected in a situation and also helps us to know the type of the information we are about to receive.

I don't think there is a gender-neutral term that has the same connotations as "ladies and gentlemen", but I think that's okay. "Good morning everyone", used in a professional setting, doesn't have a significantly more casual tone IMO, and comes without the gender-role baggage.

I don’t agree with this. Referring to people, young or old) as a ‘lady’ (small ‘l’) or gentleman implies a certain decorum and standard of behaviour. I expect my young adult children to behave in a ladylike and gentlemanly manner but that does not mean that they cannot pursue their dreams and be whomever they want to be. It just means that they will be kind, charming, polite, considerate etc while pursuing those dreams.
I would far prefer to be referred to as an old lady, than an old bag.

I agree that those terms imply a certain decorum and standard of behaviour... but those standards tend to be very gendered in ways I don't appreciate. I'm sure a lot of it comes from the fact that I was a tomboy and the only girl in my social circle and was constantly badgered to "act like a lady" when I wanted to be on the floor or out in the yard playing like the boys but couldn't because it wasn't appropriate to do so in a dress/skirt. And I'm probably more sensitive to it that some because my girls attend a school where girls have to wear skirts once a week (mass days) and are expected to avoid certain types of play on those days lest their skirts blow up - an expectation that would never be imposed on boys. You very seldom hear "act like a gentleman" used in disciplining children, but acting like a lady is still used to encourage girls to be quiet or demure.

 

[skyblue17]

I completely disagree. I deal with the public, including a lot of elderly, and they love being called by these types of names, they consider it a sign of respect.

And you glossed over my point. What about their preferences? Do they count? Or are we just to skip over those?

I don't think it's a fair comparison, honestly. If the elderly people you know were to be addressed as part of a large group, and the phrasing used didn't include "lady" or "gentleman," would they really notice? If they did notice, would they ask why? And if they were told why, and it was explained that it was changed so that more people could be included, would they be upset? No one is disrespecting the elderly. I'm not sure I agree that their opinions should outweigh creating a more inclusive environment, but I wouldn't say they do not count. Do you think that someone who identified as non-binary should have to keep being misgendered because an elderly person likes the word lady? If so, why does the elderly person's comfort outweigh the comfort of anyone else? There's a difference between omitting a word and referring to someone incorrectly.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I've always been sort of a person who sees thing in black or white, but the older I get and the more life experience I gain, they greyer everything gets.

Truer words... (Do we have a nodding head smiley?)

...but it's hard to understand why anyone would find changing to the term "everyone" objectionable, no matter what reason might be given.

I don't find it "objectionable" really, but I do agree that...

It simply isn't as formal. I was 100% sincere in my question, is there and equally formal term for the nonbinary? I know very little about this. They could add the 3rd term instead of changing it to a less formal greeting.

I think language can set a tone "Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen" sets a more serious tone than "Hi everyone!" , and that is important. We use verbal cues to infer what type of behavior is expected in a situation and also helps us to know the type of the information we are about to receive.

I want to make people feel welcome, though, so I guess I'd vote for:

Attention passengers...

Works for me.

...

My kids harass me because I use the word y'all in conversation, despite being a lifelong Yankee and an English major to boot, but seriously, the English language is sorely in need of a gender-neutral plural to refer to groups. And y'all fits the bill despite its informality.

As a fellow Yankee, I admit I also love "y'all" for more informal situations. It's just a fun word!

It is interesting to see this discussion and have a very solid idea of where people would fall if they had participated in the civil rights movement in the 50s and 60s. Just an observation that no matter how things change, some things stay the same.

I thinks it's a stretch to assume quite that much.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I don't think it's a fair comparison, honestly. If the elderly people you know were to be addressed as part of a large group, and the phrasing used didn't include "lady" or "gentleman," would they really notice? If they did notice, would they ask why? And if they were told why, and it was explained that it was changed so that more people could be included, would they be upset? No one is disrespecting the elderly. I'm not sure I agree that their opinions should outweigh creating a more inclusive environment, but I wouldn't say they do not count. Do you think that someone who identified as non-binary should have to keep being misgendered because an elderly person likes the word lady? If so, why does the elderly person's comfort outweigh the comfort of anyone else? There's a difference between omitting a word and referring to someone incorrectly.

I think it should be an equal consideration

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

It is interesting to see this discussion and have a very solid idea of where people would fall if they had participated in the civil rights movement in the 50s and 60s. Just an observation that no matter how things change, some things stay the same.

Now that is a giant leap.
And I am someone who did participate! (Wanders away muttering about young whippersnappers.)

 

[skyblue17]

I think it should be an equal consideration

Reduce the use of a few words in the English language vs. continuously refuse to acknowledge a person's preference as to how they are viewed and referred to? If this were a see-saw, someone would be flying through the air.

 

[VandVsmama]

This subject, too, is a political hot potato. Just treat one's fellow human beings with decency and respect and everything will work out fine. At the same time, one should consider the possibility that when another person addresses one as "Sir" or "Ma'am," the person is probably NOT intending to be offensive or hurtful to one's gender status (I'm not even sure what the proper term for it is now)….Calling one "Sir" or "Ma'am" or "Ladies & gentlemen" is intended to be a formal greeting as a sign of respect. So if one has a preference for a particular greeting or type of pronoun, aside from putting on a label on one's shirt, just kindly correct the person with whom you are speaking and I'm sure that the person who called you the greeting that you do not prefer will be courteous and apologetic about it.

And if the person isn't...but, rather, is rude about it...well, then, that person who was rude to you is a word that I can't say here.

 

[Kestryl]

It simply isn't as formal. I was 100% sincere in my question, is there and equally formal term for the nonbinary? I know very little about this. They could add the 3rd term instead of changing it to a less formal greeting.

I think language can set a tone "Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen" sets a more serious tone than "Hi everyone!" , and that is important. We use verbal cues to infer what type of behavior is expected in a situation and also helps us to know the type of the information we are about to receive.

Some more formal-sounding alternatives: gentlefolk, esteemed/distinguished/honorable guests.

Depending on the group: “Good morning, class.” “Good evening, passengers.” “Good afternoon, jury.”

If flying is supposed to be a formal experience, I guess I better go pull out a gown instead of my jeans...

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

If flying is supposed to be

..... if we are being ‘real’ .... Good morning you poor, helpless fools, stuck on this filthy flying pit, crammed into uncomfortable seats, about to be served microwaved inedible fodder etc and thank you for paying through the nose for the privilege.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Reduce the use of a few words in the English language vs. continuously refuse to acknowledge a person's preference as to how they are viewed and referred to? If this were a see-saw, someone would be flying through the air.

Not quite, but knock yourself out with that thinking

 

[skyblue17]

Not quite, but knock yourself out with that thinking

I mean, you're basically saying that a subset of society should have to stay invisible so that a few people don't have to deal with the horror of possibly not hearing a word every now and then. I truly don't understand how that's equal.

 

[RamblingMad]

..... if we are being ‘real’ .... Good morning you poor, helpless fools, stuck on this filthy flying pit, crammed into uncomfortable seats, about to be served microwaved inedible fodder etc and thank you for paying through the nose for the privilege.

I’ve definitely flown on nicer planes in South America than North America.

Really, this is all about treating people with respect. I’m amazed how difficult this is for a lot people.

 

[Tattylou]

The comments on this thread are disheartening. It's sad to see how many people still do not understand or respect the LGBTQ+ community.

 

[LSUmiss]

You do know transgender and gender fluidity is a mental illness right? It's not actually a real thing.

It used to be gender identity disorder, but I’m pretty sure they took it out in the dsm v so it’s not officially that anymore.

 

[DLgal]

You do know transgender and gender fluidity is a mental illness right? It's not actually a real thing.

Mental illness is a real thing though. Your logic doesn't hold.

 

[ronandannette]

The 2 people I know who prefer the pronoun "they" do not identify as exclusively male or female at any given time. They don't switch back and forth, they are always nonbinary.

You know 2 non-binary individals? Given the statistics for how few people identify this way, you ought to consider buying a lottery ticket.

 

[RamblingMad]

The comments on this thread are disheartening. It's sad to see how many people still do not understand or respect the LGBTQ+ community.

Mind is blown given that Pete owns this forum. I’d expect the opposite. I definitely expected more inclusiveness.

 

[ChrisFL]

There's a difference between being gay and lesbian and choosing not to have a gender, IMO it's a big difference and not really well understood.

 

[ronandannette]

but "B" is still there, that means two genders. So if that's the case, do people who are in that community also not agree on the number of genders?

No, that's not what it means. The B stands for bi-sexual, in terms of attraction. It has nothing whatsoever to do with gender.

ETA: I have removed a quote and my reply to it as after thinking about it, I may have misinterpreted the poster.

 

[RamblingMad]

There's a difference between being gay and lesbian and choosing not to have a gender, IMO it's a big difference and not really well understood.

I treat both groups with respect.