What is going on with Disney parks?

[dlavender]

We all have these fond memories of the Disney movies from when we were kids and how Disney is so magical and family oriented. We grew up with vision and then our kids and now the grandchildren and we all get lost in the nostalgic of it all and we truly want to believe that Disney is a magical place and that they really do care about us and our family's but the cold hard truth of the matter is Disney is a business first and foremost. They are going to do whatever it takes to make as much money as they possibly can, even if it means pricing out the lower income families, that's the true Disney. So yea, they could do alot of things differently to make the parks less crowded and more enjoyable for everyone but that just don't make them money. Supply and demand is one of the key ingredients for making money and Disney has perfected the art of creating demand and then raising the price on supply. The problems that we all see and experience is not because Disney isn't addressing the issues, they are creating them. Everything we see at Disney from the fp, parties, tours, EMH, and so on are all by design with only one thing in mind, how to maximize profits. So, as much as we all would like to believe that Disney has our best interest in mind, the fact remains that it is nothing more than the almighty $1 that drives Disney.

The demand is certainly there.

What this version of Disney has started really excelling at is cutting supply. Most cases it's the hours. Less supply, equal demand = higher prices. Now they can upsell you some hours, for a fee....

Oh it's more crowded (how did that happen? you mean cutting 30 hours out of a month and squeezing at least the same amount of people into less hours creates issues?) how about you pony up and stay onsite and get the 60 day FP advantage? Or how about you attend one of our 95 party nights?

Oh, you want a night parade? That will three (hundred) fifty.....

 

[DGsAtBLT]

It feels condescending when people remind that Disney is a business and they’re there to make money. I think we all know that.

My thing is, I question their decisions when it comes to long term vs. short term profits. Sure they can jack up the costs as much as they want and people are still paying for the time being, and they can pack in the parks in the shortest amount of hours they can manage, but at what cost? What kind of emotional attachment are people going to have to the parks visiting like that over the long term? Are there are going to be way more one and done families? I think in recent years they’ve proven the negative perceptions right. It’s very expensive, it’s very crowded, and it’s a fair amount of work.

I think a lot of their decisions in recent years are all about the short term, I hope they are considering the long term impact. The repeat guests are who stick around during tougher times for tourism.

 

[Mome Rath]

From the beginning Disney has portrayed itself as a place for kids and families of all ages to come and get lost in the magic, place where dreams come true, a place that really cares about the kids and bringing families closer, a loving and nurturing place for families. When you portray such an image, people tend to forget that Disney is still a business and it is for that reason that people feel like they are a villain when they do some of the things Disney has done lately. The reality is, Disney is not just a business but they are big business Corp now and as a business they are doing what they feel is right to make the most money possible, and even if as a business they aren't doing anything wrong, they are definitely showing their true colors and it will have an impact on how people view the supposedly most magical place on earth.

We are all discussing the Imagineering episode 1 from Disney + elsewhere on the boards. In that (and every Disney history) you see that, from the very beginning, money is a star player in the Disney story. Walt (and the rest of us) were blessed to have Roy. Without Roy there would be no DL or WDW for people to complain about... in short, it was Walt's duty to have the imagination, to push for his dream, while at the same time finding a way to get the public to consume what he was producing... which took capital... which took Roy. Thank goodness, IMO, Disney is indeed a big corp because if not, no playground for us, or bigger picture, the rest of the world.

If Disney wasn't delivering on much of its promise, we wouldn't be talking about overcrowding. And that's why the data is so important; they have adjusted to changing demand in the past, I trust they will adjust to changing demand in the future. I'm not happy personally with some of the changes (the introduction of free dining, for example, yes, that shows how long I've gone had reactions to their changes), but I get it from a business perspective and they are obviously making money on that while making people happy or they wouldn't be doing it. Capitalism is usually a win-win for consumer and for company... but that's the statistical consumer, not the individual one.

It feels condescending when people remind that Disney is a business and they’re there to make money. I think we all know that.

It's kind of central to the conversation, and is a fact that's out there, it's not condescension. Sometimes conversations morph into opinion and move out of the realm of common ground. This thread is asking the question "What is going on with Disney Parks?" and to answer that you must include the fact that the consumer is what is going on. When a business-minded person weighs in, the fact of the company itself and capitalism/consumerism is going to make an appearance. It's not just the fact that Disney is a business that's important, it's the rate of growth, the brand, the staying power, etc... that's important to the convo.

My thing is, I question their decisions when it comes to long term vs. short term profits. Sure they can jack up the costs as much as they want and people are still paying for the time being, and they can pack in the parks in the shortest amount of hours they can manage, but at what cost? What kind of emotional attachment are people going to have to the parks visiting like that over the long term? Are there are going to be way more one and done families? I think in recent years they’ve proven the negative perceptions right. It’s very expensive, it’s very crowded, and it’s a fair amount of work.

This is why the executives that run it are so important; they are the ones with all the information, they are the ones that can see trend lines through the data and then respond. If a company fails to respond, they will take a hit. So far, when Disney gets smacked upside the head with new data (it has actually happened a lot in the past), they have shifted successfully. I hope they continue to do so. I adore going to the parks, but have stopped in the past for various reasons, Disney adjusts, and I happily go back. I think threads like this one are important because Disney does get feedback from places like this, even if the sample size is small and self-selected, they still pay attention, so I hope everyone weighs in with their different perspectives.

 

[LizzyS]

From the beginning Disney has portrayed itself as a place for kids and families of all ages to come and get lost in the magic, place where dreams come true, a place that really cares about the kids and bringing families closer, a loving and nurturing place for families. When you portray such an image, people tend to forget that Disney is still a business and it is for that reason that people feel like they are a villain when they do some of the things Disney has done lately. The reality is, Disney is not just a business but they are big business Corp now and as a business they are doing what they feel is right to make the most money possible, and even if as a business they aren't doing anything wrong, they are definitely showing their true colors and it will have an impact on how people view the supposedly most magical place on earth.

They have shareholders to answer to and yes, their business is family entertainment, but they absolutely cannot lose money or they will become a failed business.

When I see comments like this (no offense, you're entitled to your own opinion), I wonder how many people know of Walt's staunchly anti-union stance. When people say he'd be turning over in his grave, I have to laugh. Walt wanted to be as successful as possible so he could make MORE family entertainment for the masses. He didn't live that high on the hog in the grand scheme of things and invested a lot right back into the company.

 

[gorkt]

I think that Disney is basically shifting their customer base and trying to reduce crowds while increasing profits at the same time. They are catering to vacation club members who go every year anyway, so they aren’t looking to ride all the rides, just see the new stuff. For them FP+ is probably better. They are less interested in maximizing the experience of the once in a lifetime vacationer by extending hours or keeping costs down (although they did add budget experiences like mid day magic). For all the complaining about costs, crowds are still insane, which means people are coming.

I definitely have seen the effects of the frequent Christmas parties this week. Both 11/10 and 11/13 were slammed all day. On the bright side, Epcot was deserted on the night of 11/13 after we bailed on MK. If you had non-park hoppers and went to MK on those two days, you were in for a crowded, miserable time. I am not a party person, went once years ago and don’t need to go again. I did do the EMM on 11/13 with my daughter and that made for a great morning.

 

[TomServo27]

I just got back from Disneyland last week and it was great low crowds really enjoyed this trip. I don’t care what the reason is for the lower crowds I’ll take it.

 

[Alynw]

They have shareholders to answer to and yes, their business is family entertainment, but they absolutely cannot lose money or they will become a failed business.

When I see comments like this (no offense, you're entitled to your own opinion), I wonder how many people know of Walt's staunchly anti-union stance. When people say he'd be turning over in his grave, I have to laugh. Walt wanted to be as successful as possible so he could make MORE family entertainment for the masses. He didn't live that high on the hog in the grand scheme of things and invested a lot right back into the company.

No offense taken, I enjoy sharing opinions with people that dont take things to heart. I actually agree with some of what you say and yes, Walt did invest back into his business as he should have, as any business should. That is now where alot of the problem lies. Big business today, including Disney, have made millions upon millions over the years. They have made enough money to build a wdw in every state, yet when it comes time to add new things, expand, update, grow as a business, instead of using the millions of millions they have already made for all these new lands, they force the cost back onto the consumer. They increased their prices by two thirds almost overnight for no other reason except to have the consumer pay for everything. They didn't even wait until after everything was complete to raise prices because they wanted to limit the amount of money they had to invest in the new renovations. My wife actually owns and runs her own small business and any time we have to do upgrades or repairs, we have to use part of the profits, that's how businesses works, we cant just raise our prices and make the consumer pay for our upgrades that once done will give us even more money, cause if we did that as a small business we would lose our customers. But big business like Disney knows that people are still going to come and they take full advantage of that and they force all the cost onto the consumer. I dont think it's right and I don't think it's good business but it's not going to change.

 

[halfpintpeggy]

Each year, I find myself more saddened by the changes at WDW specifically. What others have already said... the extra ticketed-events/reduced park hours; needing to plan FP and ADRs so far in advance; diminishing value vs increasing costs of tickets, food, parking, etc. It doesn't matter that we can afford it. It just made me so angry that I felt no other choice than to purchase the HEA Dessert Party tickets on last year's trip in order to provide a semi-enjoyable experience for my family because HEA was only offered twice during our week's stay (the rest of the week was MVMCP, another ticketed event) and the park was so crowded that you could not move. And yes, I have tried not making ADRs and just "being flexible." We've been left wandering around for hours with little kids with phones in front of our faces in search of a place to sit down and eat. It's not a family-friendly experience and it really enforces the need to plan ahead.

We have a spring break trip booked (because we have the DVC points available and want to get away from the up north winter), but right now, I am leaning toward using it as a hotel-stay only. I had assumed we would want to check out GE, but I'm not sure it's worth the price. Next Tuesday is our ADR day, and park hours aren't even available. It's making me lean toward spending our time at Universal and maybe Daytona and/or the Space Center. The Beach Club has a great pool in it's own right.

Last year, we rented some of our points and used them toward our DCL cruise in Alaska - a much better experience than WDW has become. Next summer, we will be taking a DCL cruise in Northern Europe. I am happy to have our kids see new parts of the world. We will add Aulani to the list in the next couple of years, too. My hope is that things will turn around at WDW and we will be able to enjoy our DVC stays there again some day. But unfortunately, it's lost a lot of the magic that it used to have for me.

Perhaps you could add Disney’s Hilton Head Island Resort to your list of places to use those dvc points!

 

[EmJ]

It feels condescending when people remind that Disney is a business and they’re there to make money. I think we all know that.

My thing is, I question their decisions when it comes to long term vs. short term profits. Sure they can jack up the costs as much as they want and people are still paying for the time being, and they can pack in the parks in the shortest amount of hours they can manage, but at what cost? What kind of emotional attachment are people going to have to the parks visiting like that over the long term? Are there are going to be way more one and done families? I think in recent years they’ve proven the negative perceptions right. It’s very expensive, it’s very crowded, and it’s a fair amount of work.

I think a lot of their decisions in recent years are all about the short term, I hope they are considering the long term impact. The repeat guests are who stick around during tougher times for tourism.

Disney’s long game might be in the DVCs. I mean, if you can get a good chunk of people to commit to a lifetime of Disney vacations today, then you have to worry a lot less about creating “new” nostalgia for the masses.

 

[Bing Showei]

They are catering to vacation club members who go every year anyway, so they aren’t looking to ride all the rides, just see the new stuff. For them FP+ is probably better. They are less interested in maximizing the experience of the once in a lifetime vacationer

It’s funny, but if you head over the Disney timeshare corner of the DIS, owners there will talk about how much better the The Walt Disney Company treats cash buyers of the Disney Magic™.

As timeshare owners, we’re a captive audience under contract, and the diminished services we have seen over the years as the result of a transient executive culture reflects short term profit driven goals that seems to be a common denominator across the entire Disney landscape.

So in short, I think the profit driven cost cutting is actually emblematic of the larger reality of $150/share that has hit everyone across the board.

 

[halfpintpeggy]

It's common policy in many hotels now (not just Disney), thanks to the mass shooter that holed up in a hotel room and then murdered 58 people and injured hundreds of others. If somebody had checked that hotel room earlier, those people may still be alive.

I mean no disrepect, but I see this narrative on the boards here frequently.
It’s simply not true.
I stay in hotels - different brands, chains, privately owned - A LOT. My husband stays in hotels even more than I do, averaging 5 nights a week.
Neither one of us have ever experienced a mandatory room check like they implemented at WDW. Ever. Not even in busy, touristy area big city hotels.

 

[Mome Rath]

The thing about the room checks are; Disney has already been the target of the planning of some of these attacks. The parks are under threat, and we the public aren't privy to everything going on at the parks. You can't really compare Disney to other destinations as Disney is a city unto itself, an international destination, targeted at children, and responsible (as a business) to all the guests. I'm sure most would be shocked to hear about/read about all the threats dealt with there on a regular basis.

IMO, they are being reactive and proactive and the checks don't bother me at all. If they stop just one planned malicious event of any variety, it'll be well worth any inconvienence from people that can freely choose to stay elsewhere if they desire. I totally get it if a room check is a deal breaker, that makes it a good thing that there are plenty of other places to go stay.

 

[DrunkJam]

The thing about the room checks are; Disney has already been the target of the planning of some of these attacks. The parks are under threat, and we the public aren't privy to everything going on at the parks. You can't really compare Disney to other destinations as Disney is a city unto itself, an international destination, targeted at children, and responsible (as a business) to all the guests. I'm sure most would be shocked to hear about/read about all the threats dealt with there on a regular basis.

IMO, they are being reactive and proactive and the checks don't bother me at all. If they stop just one planned malicious event of any variety, it'll be well worth any inconvienence from people that can freely choose to stay elsewhere if they desire. I totally get it if a room check is a deal breaker, that makes it a good thing that there are plenty of other places to go stay.

I don't mind them doing the checks. I just hope that, while I am there, they can, to a very high percentage, do them while I am out. I plan to be out for most of any given day, so, I have hope.

 

[disneygirlsng]

The thing about the room checks are; Disney has already been the target of the planning of some of these attacks. The parks are under threat, and we the public aren't privy to everything going on at the parks. You can't really compare Disney to other destinations as Disney is a city unto itself, an international destination, targeted at children, and responsible (as a business) to all the guests. I'm sure most would be shocked to hear about/read about all the threats dealt with there on a regular basis.

IMO, they are being reactive and proactive and the checks don't bother me at all. If they stop just one planned malicious event of any variety, it'll be well worth any inconvienence from people that can freely choose to stay elsewhere if they desire. I totally get it if a room check is a deal breaker, that makes it a good thing that there are plenty of other places to go stay.

Yep, I had 2 room checks during my trip a few weeks ago, some people have made it seem like a much bigger deal than it was IMO. Typically I'm not in my room during the day, but I did shower/relax a bit after the races during W&D weekend. Just a quick little hi, how are you doing, anything we can do to improve your stay. Ok, bye. Definitely far from a bother and if it helps keep one person safe, then to me it's worth it. And if it bothers someone that much, just put the latch on the door, they can't get in. Something that I do once I'm in the room every single time, regardless of where I'm staying.

 

[rteetz]

Yep, I had 2 room checks during my trip a few weeks ago, some people have made it seem like a much bigger deal than it was IMO. Typically I'm not in my room during the day, but I did shower/relax a bit after the races during W&D weekend. Just a quick little hi, how are you doing, anything we can do to improve your stay. Ok, bye. Definitely far from a bother and if it helps keep one person safe, then to me it's worth it. And if it bothers someone that much, just put the latch on the door, they can't get in. Something that I do once I'm in the room every single time, regardless of where I'm staying.

Yep same thing for me. During W&D was the first time I was in the room when they did a check. They just opened the door said hi I’m here for a daily check and said everything was good and left.

 

[Heather07438]

The demand is certainly there.

What this version of Disney has started really excelling at is cutting supply. Most cases it's the hours. Less supply, equal demand = higher prices. Now they can upsell you some hours, for a fee....

Oh it's more crowded (how did that happen? you mean cutting 30 hours out of a month and squeezing at least the same amount of people into less hours creates issues?) how about you pony up and stay onsite and get the 60 day FP advantage? Or how about you attend one of our 95 party nights?

Oh, you want a night parade? That will three (hundred) fifty.....

So true, and I can't help feeling a bit of resent over it.

I was watching the 2nd episode of Imagineering last night when one of them mentioned maintaining the 'sincerity' of Disney Parks.
It's insincere appearing to design the need for upsell tickets/expense by manipulating hours & crowds in effort to force a perceivable value onto EMM, DAH, dessert and season parties. What once was fun upgrades has increasingly become necessity to avoid undue levels of stress. Not the kind of orchastration I enjoy

5 years ago many people thought paying roughly $300/day in park tickets for their family was near limits of tolerance, now somehow $1000 has become acceptable. How much further will Disney push it? Guest expectations are much harder to appease in that cost realm.

 

[mamapenguin]

I just got back from Disneyland last week and it was great low crowds really enjoyed this trip. I don’t care what the reason is for the lower crowds I’ll take it.

You must have left before Saturday 11/9. Saturday and Sunday were very busy, Monday and Tuesday were still busy, but not as bad. I enjoyed my trip too, but it was definitely not the low crowds that I experienced mid September.

 

[TomServo27]

You must have left before Saturday 11/9. Saturday and Sunday were very busy, Monday and Tuesday were still busy, but not as bad. I enjoyed my trip too, but it was definitely not the low crowds that I experienced mid September.

Friday 11/8 was our last day in the parks and that was the only busy day we had. We were there 11/2-11/9 never waited longer than 30 minutes for anything.

 

[Q-man]

It’s funny, but if you head over the Disney timeshare corner of the DIS, owners there will talk about how much better the The Walt Disney Company treats cash buyers of the Disney Magic™.

As timeshare owners, we’re a captive audience under contract, and the diminished services we have seen over the years as the result of a transient executive culture reflects short term profit driven goals that seems to be a common denominator across the entire Disney landscape.

So in short, I think the profit driven cost cutting is actually emblematic of the larger reality of $150/share that has hit everyone across the board.

I feel sorry for those locked into going every other year, for decades, to an experience that has been lessened from the one they bought into.

 

[rteetz]

It’s funny, but if you head over the Disney timeshare corner of the DIS, owners there will talk about how much better the The Walt Disney Company treats cash buyers of the Disney Magic™.

As timeshare owners, we’re a captive audience under contract, and the diminished services we have seen over the years as the result of a transient executive culture reflects short term profit driven goals that seems to be a common denominator across the entire Disney landscape.

So in short, I think the profit driven cost cutting is actually emblematic of the larger reality of $150/share that has hit everyone across the board.

Why wouldn’t disney treat those who have bought directly from them and at a higher cost better than those who bought from a reseller at a lower cost? Disney wants you to buy directly from them not from outside places.