Splash Mountain to become Princess and the Frog ride

[Mit88]

Jungle Cruise is already trending on Twitter with mentions of Peter Pan.

Very mixed feelings on Peter Pan. I love the movie so much as a kid, and it was one of the first Disney rides, but the depictions of Native Americans as 'the red man' are pretty bad. I would want to know more about how Native Americans feel about that before deciding what I think. Jungle Cruise could hopefully be changed with a few modifications, the general ride left intact.

As for Splash Mountain - doubt many will agree, but all social justice issues aside, I love the idea of replacing it with a Princess and the Frog ride anyways. I'd be for it even if Splash Mountain wasn't considered offensive.

Tower of Terror as well is trending

 

[FutureDisneyEventPlanner]

If people find a ride offensive which clearly appears to be the case here then changing it is the right thing to do. Walt Disney World should be the happiest place on earth for ALL people.

You misunderstand, read again thanks. I'm in favor of the change, but I think DISNEY should realize these changes on their own, without people having to pressure them. The fact that they don't realize it was offense until a bunch of people pushed them, means they're probably not the advocates for change they claim to be.

 

[Krandor]

It's problematic because given that the film is set in the 1870s it means the black characters in the film were literally OWNED by the white characters less than a decade earlier. Depicting them as super happy about everything and delighted to stay with their former slave masters is incredibly problematic and is part of the "Lost Cause" mythology that supported Jim Crow and white supremacy well after the end of the Civil War. Sure, the black characters don't have to be super unhappy and grim and dark, but they barely seem believable as human beings (for example, based on a few clips I have seen, Hattie McDaniel's character makes her character in Gone With the Wind seem downright woke and nuanced).

Everything you say is true but read the essay posted above. There is a lot more then that going on. The original stories had african roots and then you had a white people who took those stories, created the uncle remus character and is the one credited with the stories and then the movie and that was all in a time when segregation was still a thing. So there is also an issue of while being oppressed in segregation a white person basically taking their heritage and their stories. Powerful essay posted up above.

 

[wdwoutsider]

100% disney they sat on this to cover bad news. disneys stock took a plunge on the news that disneyland wont reopen yesterday, good way to push that out of the news headlines with this. It's smart ,but so Disney

 

[Krandor]

You misunderstand, read again thanks. I'm in favor of the change, but I think DISNEY should realize these changes on their own, without people having to pressure them. The fact that they don't realize it was offense until a bunch of people pushed them, means they're probably not the advocates for change they claim to be.

but they've been workig on it for a year. They didn't decide to do this because of recent events.

 

[Mit88]

You misunderstand, read again thanks. I'm in favor of the change, but I think DISNEY should realize these changes on their own, without people having to pressure them. The fact that they don't realize it was offense until a bunch of people pushed them, means they're probably not the advocates for change they claim to be.

I think they may have made this decision on their own and just released the info at a time when it seems like they were pressured into it. I think we’ll see a lot of over analyzing of Disney Parks for the time being. Some will have merit, some will be more on the ridiculous end. But releasing this info right now gives social media accounts and petitioners the sense of power for change, and while that can be a good thing as times, it could become very destructive

 

[SierraT]

Disney is going to be in the red for a very very very long time. Every ride is going to need an overhaul, I hope they truly understand the can of worms they just opened.

 

[mmackeymouse]

"The Song of the South" derives from Joel Chandler Harris' "Uncle Remus: His Songs and His Sayings" It is a compilation of stories derived from the oral folklore tradition of former slaves as collected by white journalist. Harris is often credited with retaining the dialect in the stories, which was done in an effort to preserve authenticity. Mark Twain, who used the same device in "Huckleberry Finn" notably credited it for this.

There are questions about exactly how accurate his retellings were and many scholars have criticisms of his role as an authority. More pointedly he has long been criticized for creating patronizing and damaging stereotypes that romanticize the antebellum era -- which can be seen in the Disney film.

Alice Walker's 1985 essay "Uncle Remus: No Friend of Mine" is one of the most pointed criticisms of Harris's works. I cannot find an online version of that but the link below is from a talk she gave in 1981 to the Atlanta Historical Society on the same topic. She includes her feelings regarding the Disney movie in this essay.

https://books.google.com/books?id=m...=snippet&q=atlanta historical society&f=false

Here's my question though. Disney did everything they could to make the current iteration of the ride as non-racist and neutral as possible. The only racist thing about the ride is its connection to that movie. The ride doesn't even reference the movie.

So, if we are going to re-theme things based on a connection to a movie, are we getting rid of Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah? It has a connection to the same movie?

No one seems to be talking about the fact that Tony Baxter is involved in the re-theming. The man who actually came up with the idea for Splash Mountain. He’s contributing to the re-theme of “his” ride.

Charita leading and Tony Baxter involved? It’s gonna be good.

I have no doubt it will be great.

I can still mourn for something that is such a central part of my childhood, my Disney experience; it doesn't make me racist, it doesn't make me insensitive, it doesn't make me a Karen. Likewise, being excited about the change doesn't make someone PC or SJW or woke or whatever the kids say these days.

I like seeing all the differences of opinion in here. I don't like seeing, "Well you are not allowed to say this isn't offensive." "You are not allowed to have an opinion about it" That's where I think things cross a line.

 

[Disney Bobby]

So why aren't people upset with Walt Disney himself and asking for the name to be removed, since he obviously produced and approved of such a movie?

 

[Moliphino]

Yeah, but they could easily make a minor update to that one thing. I also love the CBJ and, fair warning, I will chain myself to the Tiki Room before they get rid of that (DL version espeicially)!

Jose's accent in the Tiki Room could use an update, though.

 

[BrianL]

"Song of the South" was released in 1946. It was accused of being racist almost immediately. The film has never been released on home video. So the Disney company has always known that this is a movie better relegated to the annals of history.

And yet, Disney went ahead and decided to create an attraction themed to characters from "Song of the South..." in 1989! Just writing that is insane to me. In 1989, Disney decided it was a good idea to make an attraction based on "Song of the South." It's crazy to even think about. And Disney was well aware of the potential problems., There's a reason why Disney has worked so hard to ensure that most guests never know that Splash Mountain is tied to a movie. The main character of the film, Uncle Remus, is eliminated altogether, as he should be. Disney hopes that riders don't realize the experience they're enjoying is based on a racist film that will never been seen again in this country in any meaningful way.

Given all of that, it's hard to argue that this is the right call. Frankly, Splash Mountain never should have been to "Song of the South." Disney knew that in 1989. It certainly knows it now.

Just an FYI, the movie was shown on TV, with sing-a-long segments from the animated portions shown as recently as 2000 or 2001. I don't think it was quite as controversial in 1989.

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

"The Song of the South" derives from Joel Chandler Harris' "Uncle Remus: His Songs and His Sayings" It is a compilation of stories derived from the oral folklore tradition of former slaves as collected by white journalist. Harris is often credited with retaining the dialect in the stories, which was done in an effort to preserve authenticity. Mark Twain, who used the same device in "Huckleberry Finn" notably credited it for this.

There are questions about exactly how accurate his retellings were and many scholars have criticisms of his role as an authority. More pointedly he has long been criticized for creating patronizing and damaging stereotypes that romanticize the antebellum era -- which can be seen in the Disney film.

Alice Walker's 1985 essay "Uncle Remus: No Friend of Mine" is one of the most pointed criticisms of Harris's works. I cannot find an online version of that but the link below is from a talk she gave in 1981 to the Atlanta Historical Society on the same topic. She includes her feelings regarding the Disney movie in this essay.

https://books.google.com/books?id=m...=snippet&q=atlanta historical society&f=false

The article discusses JCH stealing the folktales to be told through a lens of white experience, thereby alienating the culture from which the stories originally came. My point is that these stories are originally from Black storytellers, and surely there is a way to recognize that and change the ride to take back the stories and honor the original storytellers not JCH. I'm honestly not sure if putting in an originally European tale that was altered to a different place (Louisiana) is an effective form of representation, or at least that it is as effective using originally Black stories (whether it's Br'er Rabbit or another story).

On another note, I haven't seen Pocahontas. I do know the aesthetic, and think it would fit Frontierland better than PatR (whereas PatF blends into DL better). I don't have any particular problem with Pocahontas as I understand the Disney version, even though it's not historically accurate (I'm Native, btw). This is a moot point, since it seems Disney has made their decision.

 

[FutureDisneyEventPlanner]

but they've been workig on it for a year. They didn't decide to do this because of recent events.

And I believe they said that to look better. Disney isn't stupid, they know what they need to say to get out of the hot seat.

 

[chasgoose]

And the Br-er Rabbit triumphs over the Br'er Fox is that offensive? I personally find it offensive our culture wants us to forget about slavery by erasing all possible images, stories or mention of it. Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it...

Yeah but Song of the South has never been an accurate representation of our history or our past. It was of a piece with all the rest of the "Lost Cause" nostalgia, trying to gaslight everyone into thinking that the Confederacy was justified and upholding the white supremacy/Jim Crow subjugation of black people of its day. While it's not as offensive as Confederate statues that were literally erected well after the civil war to honor traitors and to remind black people in the South of their place, its still of a piece. The only way to memorialize things like that is to remember them with that reality in mind. Presenting them as memorials or as a ride without that important context distorts history and only serves to ensure that we will forget it.

 

[Krandor]

Here's my question though. Disney did everything they could to make the current iteration of the ride as non-racist and neutral as possible. The only racist thing about the ride is its connection to that movie. The ride doesn't even reference the movie.

So, if we are going to re-theme things based on a connection to a movie, are we getting rid of Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah? It has a connection to the same movie?

zip a ddee doo dah has connections to an offensive minstral song so I don't think we'll hear that song anymore.

 

[Krandor]

And I believe they said that to look better. Disney isn't stupid, they know what they need to say to get out of the hot seat.

You don't create that kind of concept art and everything in a few days. This was definitely being worked on before current events.

 

[TreAntDeu]

Ok, gotta say that Splash Mountain is my favorite ride since i was 3 years old, im 25 now. So I will miss it.

I have also actually watched the Song of the South movie. I am totally fine with a change to the ride. I would have preferred a new show based on just the animated characters to then update the ride, but whatever.

Princess and the Frog is fantastic and the only thing i would prefer over it coming in would have been a new original ride theme. I love classic Disney Animation, and anything promoting the old 2D style is a massive win for me.

In terms of theming fit, I really don't think it is going to feel out of place in MK. Tom Sawyer Island, Liberty Square, and Big Thunder Mountain all have very different core location themes, but they all fit. Bayou/Swamp theming is close enough that i really dont think it will be an issue.

To be honest I think the Bayou theme fits in great or at least ok with Tom Sawyer and Liberty Square.

And TBH, i always felt that Frontierland had pretty weak theming anyway. Liberty Square, Sawyer Island, Liberty Tree Tavern, and Haunted Mansion all have far stronger external theming than the exteriors of the Shooting gallery, Diamond Horeshoe, Country Bears, and Pecos Bills.

Big Thunder has great theming, but the WDW version is easily the worst version right now. It needs love.

So to me, changing Pecos Bill and Diamond Horeshoe into southern influenced food and just changing the signs/names is easy. The shooting gallery is kinda not important, do whatever.

The only 2 things out the entire stretch from Haunted Mansion to Splash Mountain that are not easily and cheaply fixed in terms of theming are Country Bears and Big Thunder. However, Country Bears really only needs an external building cosmetic like the restaurants to work well.

Which just leaves Big Thunder. The WDW version needs love anyway, i dont want them to change it, but if they ever give us the updated effects like in DL, i could see some very minor Aesthetic tweaks to make it fit more seamlessly while still keeping its Western Railroad theme.

I am excited for this. Tower changing into Guardians was weird, But Mission Breakout is easily the most fun i have had on an attraction. Malestrom was interesting, but it scared me as a little kid and the Frozen ride is more fun but less unique.

The next ride i see getting cultural changes is Jungle Cruise. That one i always thought was the one that would happen first. I vote Indiana Jones on a world trekking journey if it has to be IP.

 

[FutureDisneyEventPlanner]

I think they may have made this decision on their own and just released the info at a time when it seems like they were pressured into it. I think we’ll see a lot of over analyzing of Disney Parks for the time being. Some will have merit, some will be more on the ridiculous end. But releasing this info right now gives social media accounts and petitioners the sense of power for change, and while that can be a good thing as times, it could become very destructive

I'd like to believe that they did the right thing and made this decision on their own, but there's still a lot of other problematic things in and outside the parks that need to be changed that should've been changed years ago. And they still haven't. But we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Mit88]

https://www.behind-the-music.com/whats-the-historical-background-of-zip-a-dee-doo-dah/

Zip a Dee doo dah is much more than just a catchy song

 

[chasgoose]

Everything you say is true but read the essay posted above. There is a lot more then that going on. The original stories had african roots and then you had a white people who took those stories, created the uncle remus character and is the one credited with the stories and then the movie and that was all in a time when segregation was still a thing. So there is also an issue of while being oppressed in segregation a white person basically taking their heritage and their stories. Powerful essay posted up above.

Oh I know all about that history, the classic Hollywood podcast You Must Remember This has a really great season about The Song of the South that goes into all of that in depth (and also provides an interesting biography of Hattie McDaniel in addition to a lot of in depth history about the creation of Splash Mountain itself). It's definitely worth checking out.

http://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/episodes/tag/Song+of+the+South