What is wrong with people? Gun drawn during a parking lot dispute.

[cabanafrau]

Both she and her husband were arraigned today on felony assault charges and freed on $50,000 bond each. Both have to hand over all their firearms and not leave Michigan. Husband has been fired from his job at a local university. The Sheriff announced the charges, but was clear that filing charges was the decision of the prosecutor.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...chipotle-parking-lot-gun-incident/5366368002/

Police don't have the authority to make the charging decision, legally that's always the prosecutor's job.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I can't ever understand what prompts people to act like that. Why was their stupid english comment necessary? Are people insecure or just naturally jerks? I'm the same way, just avoid and ignore, since you can't seem to teach people like that anything so engaging is fruitless. They just want to look "cool" or whatever I guess, I don't know. Especially since they were already the type to take up an entire sidewalk with no consideration or awareness for others.

I think it’s about being a bully. I’ve experienced or witnessed other instances like this but without the English part. I don’t understand people who have to loudly exclaim that someone didn’t say excuse me. Who has the time for it? Just move on with your life. Is it worth the trouble? To me it isn’t. I’m not about teaching adults manners.

 

[bcla]

Police don't have the authority to make the charging decision, legally that's always the prosecutor's job.

I understand that. However, he was adamant that it wasn't his decision. I don't know if it was a coded message or not, but he didn't have to say it.

I don't think there are any winners here, but man everything went south once a gun was pulled out.

 

[okeydokey]

Call the police? I could have sworn there is a movement going on now to defund the police of which the instigator in this incident is no doubt a part of.

If you can't call the police, and the woman is blocking you from leaving, yes you absolutely pull a gun and put the fear of God in them.

If you don't want someone to pull a gun on you, you keep your mouth shut and you go about your life without bothering others. Don't follow that golden rule at your own peril. People are just not going to put up with this nonsense anymore.

You either don't know what defund the police mean, or you do and you continue to pretend you don't so as to make a false point. In either case you really should try to educate yourself.

 

[cabanafrau]

I understand that. However, he was adamant that it wasn't his decision. I don't know if it was a coded message or not, but he didn't have to say it.

I don't think there are any winners here, but man everything went south once a gun was pulled out.

The freep article you linked specifically says the sheriff stated that the charges were the Prosecutor's decision, but would not offer his personal opinion. The author included the political affiliations of the Sheriff and Prosecutor without quoting the Sheriff as having done so. further driving home the implication the Sheriff does not support the charging decision. The Sheriff did however specifically state that if it had ended with finger pointing there would have been no felonious assault charges. That's the bottom line.

You read it as the Sheriff disagreeing with the charging decision. I read it as the Sheriff thinking this whole round of stupidity would have and should have ended much the way parents handle sibling nonsense by telling both kids to knock it off and separate -- but for someone having to take the nonsense into the completely absurd territory by introducing guns. No LE officer with a functioning gray cell between his ears wants to see citizens unleashed to freely operate as gunslingers on the streets over any and every dispute, real or imagined. America ostensibly aspires to be a world class, civilized society. It's mindblowing if that's not a priority everyone can get behind.

 

[Skywalker]

Then get in the car, lock the doors and call the police. I’m sick of people waving guns around. I hate it.

Dont blame the victim for trying to defend herself.

 

[ScottOKW2K]

This seems like a huge assumption that I'm going to guess is based on the mother's race? I think you may have some racial biases you might want to reconsider.


Without the firearm she would have never gotten out of the van. The situation would have either naturally de-escalated or the police would have been called.

The couple were in their vehicle and the mother had no weapon. They were not in any mortal danger.

You stated your opinion that the situation would have naturally de-escalated but I think than many viewing the long video might disagree with that assessment. She clearly wanted to reduce the verbal tension in the situation and the mother and daughter were not shown to be willing to do that. They then tried to leave the location in order to withdraw from the situation and were prevented. Each time she / the couple tried to reduce the tension the other individuals response was to increase the tension of the situation.

I'm not going to comment on whether she should have drawn her weapon because I am not familiar with carry laws and the laws of her state in this type of situation. I did notice several things. One, her finger was not inside the trigger guard, so she had at least some training and situational awareness. Second, once she drew the firearm she started stating that all she wanted to do was leave, and she continued to back away. Though we may agree of disagree whether she should have drawn the firearm it did change the aggressive actions of the other party and allow then to remove themselves from the situation.

My opinion is if the original situation was allowed to continue that there likely would have been a physical confrontation. The mother and daughter simply did not show any inclination to take it down a notch, but continued with verbal taunts and prevented them from leaving the situation. If you are dealing with individuals that were displaying aggressive words and actions from the very beginning of the situation - to a pregnant female, no less - then I believe that they had no expectation that this would likely end calmly and quickly.

 

[bcla]

You read it as the Sheriff disagreeing with the charging decision. I read it as the Sheriff thinking this whole round of stupidity would have and should have ended much the way parents handle sibling nonsense by telling both kids to knock it off and separate -- but for someone having to take the nonsense into the completely absurd territory by introducing guns. No LE officer with a functioning gray cell between his ears wants to see citizens unleashed to freely operate as gunslingers on the streets over any and every dispute, real or imagined. America ostensibly aspires to be a world class, civilized society. It's mindblowing if that's not a priority everyone can get behind.

There are various opinions among different law enforcement. Once I was on jury duty and just chatting it up with the bailiff/Deputy Sheriff leading us around. I was talking about his service weapon and how he felt about civilians and self defense. I didn't get that he thought it was a great idea because of the typical level of training and that even law enforcement often freezes when it comes to using a firearm even in a justifiable situation.

But there are law enforcement who do think that public should be allowed to carry firearms for self protection. In California it got pretty interesting because it's generally difficult to obtain a CCW permit, which can be issued by a police chief (if authorized by a Sheriff) or a county Sheriff. It's pretty difficult to get one in the more urban counties. I heard that San Francisco had issued less than 10. There have been some controversies since some of rural Sheriffs had issued carry permits to almost anyone who asks for one, including those living in different counties. The law was eventually changed to only allow it if the prospective CCW permit holder was a resident of the county or who had business (i.e. employment) primarily in the county.

 

[bcla]

My opinion is if the original situation was allowed to continue that there likely would have been a physical confrontation. The mother and daughter simply did not show any inclination to take it down a notch, but continued with verbal taunts and prevented them from leaving the situation. If you are dealing with individuals that were displaying aggressive words and actions from the very beginning of the situation - to a pregnant female, no less - then I believe that they had no expectation that this would likely end calmly and quickly.

Self defense laws don't generally allow for speculation of physical harm.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

And they had no idea what the black woman would have done.
If someone acts like that you can't assume they are going to suddenly begin to act rational.
As far as I'm concerned pulling out her gun in that situation falls under self defense. She didn't shoot the woman, she held her gun on her so that the woman wouldn't take it further.
I'll gladly donate to their defense fund.

I have no idea what any stranger I meet anywhere will ever do. Does that justify me pulling a gun on each and every one of them? Clearly not. Your pretexts are getting so flimsy they're more like pretenses now. The standard of pulling a gun on someone wasn't even close to met here. The cops thought their probable cause to make an arrest and the prosecutor has charged them. She is going to need a good lawyer.

Everyone involved in the incident is going to need a lawyer which was instigated by the black woman.

Actually the Black Woman doesn't need a lawyer. She wasn't charged with anything. Although she might want to get one for a civil suit if she wishes to file one.

If you don't want someone to pull a gun on you, you keep your mouth shut and you go about your life without bothering others. Don't follow that golden rule at your own peril. People are just not going to put up with this nonsense anymore.

If it was legal to pull a gun for failing to shut up when I wanted someone to or failing to follow the golden rule, I'd be pulling one 100 times a day. Neither of those things are remotely the legal standard for pointing a gun at someone.

Dont blame the victim for trying to defend herself.

Why would I blame the victim for recording the crime on her phone?

So by producing the firearm, cooler heads prevailed and the attacking mother allowed the pregnant woman to get back into her car and drive away? I agree, it could have been a lot worse without the firearm.

Cooler heads don't do what she did. She left her position in favor of a complete vulnerable one. You know who does that? Entitled people that want to intimidate others.

 

[mjkacmom]

I understand that. However, he was adamant that it wasn't his decision. I don't know if it was a coded message or not, but he didn't have to say it.

I don't think there are any winners here, but man everything went south once a gun was pulled out.

I’m pretty anti gun, we don’t own them because I know I wouldn’t shoot anyone. I’m also pretty big on BLM, removing offensive statues, believe that there is white privilege, etc, but in this case, everything didn’t go south when the gun was pulled. This mom and daughter were looking for trouble, same as the woman at the pool.

 

[kelpricer]

Take race out of it for a minute. We have a woman acting like a fool (blocking the car) and we have a woman acting like a fool (getting out of the car and escalating the situation by pointing a gun). People act foolish daily, unfortunately. Now imagine everybody carries a gun. How many shootings would we see over foolishness and not actual danger? This story was absolutely misrepresented by foolish woman #1 but I think it represents a conversation about the right to carry and what is an appropriate time to pull a gun.

 

[cabanafrau]

There are various opinions among different law enforcement. Once I was on jury duty and just chatting it up with the bailiff/Deputy Sheriff leading us around. I was talking about his service weapon and how he felt about civilians and self defense. I didn't get that he thought it was a great idea because of the typical level of training and that even law enforcement often freezes when it comes to using a firearm even in a justifiable situation.

But there are law enforcement who do think that public should be allowed to carry firearms for self protection. In California it got pretty interesting because it's generally difficult to obtain a CCW permit, which can be issued by a police chief (if authorized by a Sheriff) or a county Sheriff. It's pretty difficult to get one in the more urban counties. I heard that San Francisco had issued less than 10. There have been some controversies since some of rural Sheriffs had issued carry permits to almost anyone who asks for one, including those living in different counties. The law was eventually changed to only allow it if the prospective CCW permit holder was a resident of the county or who had business (i.e. employment) primarily in the county.

I didn't say anything about people not having the ability to own firearms or defend themselves and what law enforcement opinion is on that. Having worked pre-pandemic in an environment teaming with law enforcement for well over a decade I know very well that there are differing opinions among them.

What I did say was that any LE officer with a functioning gray cell between his or her ears doesn't want armed citizens moving through their communities with the idea of being vigilantes free to use their firearms to "settle" any and every dispute, real or imagined. The couple in this incident would not be facing charges if they had simply sat in their vehicle once their exit was barred, contacted the police and were prepared to defend themselves with their legally owned firearms should they face an attack that offered any reasonable outcome of physical harm or death. It's a shame on multiple levels they did not do that. That in itself is the reality, notwithstanding behaviors and actions of the other parties involved. The right to bear arms is accompanied by a very high standard of responsibilities simply by the prospect of lethal results. It cannot and should not be taken lightly.

 

[declansdad]

Walking away really is the best option and the gun toting woman did try her best. The other woman wasn’t having it though.

She tried her best until she got back out of the vehicle, there was no need for her or her husband to do that.

Dont blame the victim for trying to defend herself.

She wasn't in any danger in the vehicle.

 

[Planogirl]

Why was the husband charged and fired? I still can't find a reason.

 

[jen7233]

Walking away really is the best option and the gun toting woman did try her best. The other woman wasn’t having it though.

Reminds me of an incident last week when I was at the shore leaving our hotel to get to our car. We were walking on the sidewalk and there was a large family walking towards us and taking up the entire sidewalk. No big deal to us. We moved all the way over and scooched past them. I said excuse me but I wasn’t loud and they were speaking very loudly amongst themselves and not paying us any mind so I’m sure they didn’t hear me. Then one lady loudy says “oh I guess they don’t know how to say excuse me. I guess none of them know how to speak effen English.” And we’re all clearly Hispanic. One person with us says back “oh we speak English.” The rest of us didn’t care and just chuckled at her. And it ended there. Everyone kept walking in their own directions. I don’t know how it would’ve went had the lady made more comments but it could’ve gotten ugly quickly.

That's terrible. I haven't had any issues as an adult accidentally bumping, I mean it sometimes happens on the rare occasion either on them or me. I always just say sorry anyway, it doesn't hurt. When I was a younger teen, like 14 or 15, had a bad incident leading to a fight over a simple bumping into accidentally, still a sharp reminder as it led to being bullied after return back to school after we were both suspended, and got really bad. As adult, you'd think we can be more rational but cool heads still don't always prevail, or maybe it's demanding to be right, or maybe just adults can still be bullies.

 

[mefordis]

I saw the entire 4 minute video earlier today.

The white woman tried to get in her car and they blocked her. When she got into her car and tried to leave the mom stepped behind the car on purpose and claimed they were trying to run her over. The mom then started banging on the car. I read the white woman had her kid was in the car too but I don’t know how true it is. The mom also started with the woman’s husband too. Antagonizing him and threatening him when he was just trying to leave.

I honestly believe this woman was scared. And I think that woman with her daughters were looking for a fight.

I don’t think this was racially motivated.

I read the entire thing was provoked by the 15 year old and she was not actually bumped, just stirring up trouble. Honestly I can only believe half of what I see and nothing I hear.

That said, any encounter like this I'd just apologize and get the heck out of there asap. Not worth it to do anything else.

 

[karen4546]

I saw the entire 4 minute video earlier today.

The white woman tried to get in her car and they blocked her. When she got into her car and tried to leave the mom stepped behind the car on purpose and claimed they were trying to run her over. The mom then started banging on the car. I read the white woman had her kid was in the car too but I don’t know how true it is. The mom also started with the woman’s husband too. Antagonizing him and threatening him when he was just trying to leave.

I honestly believe this woman was scared. And I think that woman with her daughters were looking for a fight.

I don’t think this was racially motivated.

i think the OP needs to present all the video if he/she is going to post something like this. OP, are you trying to start an argument? debate? with everything that is going on int he world-why would you post only a portion of the story?

 

[MrsPete]

An absolute disgustingly written article. Wow!

I read several different articles, and they don't all read the same -- some paint the pregnant woman as the victim, others paint the black mom as the victim.

They only tweeted the part from the gun on. The beginning of the video was released by the press.

I tried to find the beginning and couldn't. What does the initiating incident look like?

If anything, it's all a good lesson not to engage in stupid, gets nowhere.

Yep, fighting with strangers over what should've been a nothing-forgotten-in-moments slight is just stupid.

Walking away really is the best option and the gun toting woman did try her best. The other woman wasn’t having it though.

Agree -- walking away would've been the right choice for both parties. The teen and her mom wouldn't allow the other woman to speak, and when she tried to get into the car and leave, they stood behind the car.

Are people insecure or just naturally jerks?

I vote for naturally jerks. It almost seems they want to turn a nothing-little-incident into something big (and they succeeded).

I don't think there are any winners here, but man everything went south once a gun was pulled out.

Oh, I think the situation had "gone south" before the gun came out.

I read it as the Sheriff thinking this whole round of stupidity would have and should have ended much the way parents handle sibling nonsense by telling both kids to knock it off and separate

Both sides were acting like children, and "knock it off" would've been appropriate -- but the sheriff wasn't at the right place at the right time to say it.

I read the entire thing was provoked by the 15 year old and she was not actually bumped, just stirring up trouble.

Yes, the 15 year old started it all -- saying "Excuse you" is a rude, sarcastic statement that was never going to lead to anything good -- you say she wasn't actually bumped? I want to see the beginning of that video!

 

[bcla]

Yes, the 15 year old started it all -- saying "Excuse you" is a rude, sarcastic statement that was never going to lead to anything good -- you say she wasn't actually bumped? I want to see the beginning of that video!

There may be surveillance video, but it looks like cell phone video didn’t start until it started getting really heated.