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[UrsulaWantsYourSoul]

I disagree. Months, maybe longer if the pricing is as sky-high as some have seen suggested. It's such a small resort, and the demand is THERE and has been for a long time. If WDW could plop RIV into DL, it would have.

I agree with you, @RoseGold. While I do think it will be rather hypocritical for those who whine about resale restrictions now to gleefully sign on at DLTower... being only the second DVC property at Land (and the other one being so small), it will be popular and sell quickly. Resale contracts only being able to be used there won't be viewed as so bad when there are only two options there (currently) anyway - and within walking distance of two parks and downtown Disney. @JavaDuck and I keep going back and forth about what we would rather - resale VGC or direct DLTower. We're pretty maxed out right now so will have a while to consider options.

 

[limace]

I think it’s ok to both be unhappy about the resale restrictions and excited about DLH. It’s weird to characterize it as whining when folks are unhappy about a beloved product changing for the worst. I can hate fast pass plus and still want to go to WDW, I can be sad that Bugsland is gone from DCA and still want to visit the park...

 

[LTJoeFlo]

I disagree. Months, maybe longer if the pricing is as sky-high as some have seen suggested. It's such a small resort, and the demand is THERE and has been for a long time. If WDW could plop RIV into DL, it would have.

Not sure if you took my point out of context. The point I was trying to make is that many people have been pointing to resale restrictions as the end of DVC as we know it. That it is such a bad idea that executives would get fired and buyers would permanently stay away. All doom and gloom. But we all know that the resale restrictions will not even cross the mind of future Disneyland buyers, regardless of the price per point.

The resale restriction is just a new rule. In a few resorts from now it will just been seen as the norm. I believe people are more upset with the dramatic change rather than the restriction itself. But, that’s just my opinion/assumption.

 

[Where'sPiglet?]

I agree with you, @RoseGold. While I do think it will be rather hypocritical for those who whine about resale restrictions now to gleefully sign on at DLTower... being only the second DVC property at Land (and the other one being so small), it will be popular and sell quickly. Resale contracts only being able to be used there won't be viewed as so bad when there are only two options there (currently) anyway - and within walking distance of two parks and downtown Disney. @JavaDuck and I keep going back and forth about what we would rather - resale VGC or direct DLTower. We're pretty maxed out right now so will have a while to consider options.

Eh, I don't like the resale restrictions at Riviera, but that wasn't the only reason I didn't want to own there.

I'm hoping to buy a small contract at Disneyland Tower. I still won't like the resale restrictions (assuming they still exist), but there are other reasons I do want to buy at DLT that don't exist for me with Riviera.

In other words, resale restrictions are part of, but not the only reason, I would or would not buy at a resort.

 

[BruinEd03]

Of course when you take Covid months into account, it's selling poorly.
But it was selling on pace with CCV & VGF pre-Covid, how can that be considered a failure?
And don't forget that those two were already known and loved resorts with a built-in pent up demand. And you could actually visit those resorts while Riviera wasn't even open during the first 9 (?) months of sales.

Realistically the resale restrictions shouldn't affect anyone that wants to buy Riviera and doesn't plan on selling at all. After all, if you never sell Riviera, you don't have to worry about how the market will react to the resale restrictions.

However, with the economic uncertainty, people are now going to have to think about that reality and what the market will be like. The resale restrictions only made sense if the market and economy was going to go gangbusters. You can say everything was great pre-Covid-19. But, that's like buying a house before the housing market crash. You will never have to worry about the resale value of the house if you never have to sell your house. It wouldn't just have been Covid-19 that caused issues for Riviera. It could be a recession. Again, anything where people suddenly worry about having to sell assets for cash.

I would also say that with the reopening, if the appetite for Riviera was the same, the pent-up demand would've just rushed to purchase Riviera as soon as DVC opened. That does not seem to be the case based on data from August and September.

What's the biggest sign that Riviera sales are not going well? Disney stopped work on Reflections - AFTER they already spent lots of money prepping the land. Disney isn't a charity case. They look at economic data and make economic decisions. Reflections would take about 2.5 years to complete, and Disney would want to sell out of Riviera and focus on Reflections about 6 months before opening of Reflections. So, Disney would've expected to sell out of Riviera at about January 2022. Clearly, that will not be the case anymore. Even if they thought Covid-19 would've delayed the sellout of Riviera by 6 months, they would've just paused Reflections or slow-rolled it. However they didn't seem to do that by moving equipment out. Now, it hasn't been officially cancelled, so we can see how it goes. However, if you see Reflections start up, assume they expect to sell out Riviera in about 2 years from that point going forwards.

 

[UrsulaWantsYourSoul]

I think it’s ok to both be unhappy about the resale restrictions and excited about DLH. It’s weird to characterize it as whining when folks are unhappy about a beloved product changing for the worst. I can hate fast pass plus and still want to go to WDW, I can be sad that Bugsland is gone from DCA and still want to visit the park...

You are in a different category than those I meant to refer to... who refuse to buy at RIV mostly/completely based on the resale restriction and seem to make it their Disboards objective to complain about it as much as possible. RIP Bugsland.

 

[RivShore]

Realistically the resale restrictions shouldn't affect anyone that wants to buy Riviera and doesn't plan on selling at all. After all, if you never sell Riviera, you don't have to worry about how the market will react to the resale restrictions.

However, with the economic uncertainty, people are now going to have to think about that reality and what the market will be like. The resale restrictions only made sense if the market and economy was going to go gangbusters. You can say everything was great pre-Covid-19. But, that's like buying a house before the housing market crash. You will never have to worry about the resale value of the house if you never have to sell your house. It wouldn't just have been Covid-19 that caused issues for Riviera. It could be a recession. Again, anything where people suddenly worry about having to sell assets for cash.

I would also say that with the reopening, if the appetite for Riviera was the same, the pent-up demand would've just rushed to purchase Riviera as soon as DVC opened. That does not seem to be the case based on data from August and September.

What's the biggest sign that Riviera sales are not going well? Disney stopped work on Reflections - AFTER they already spent lots of money prepping the land. Disney isn't a charity case. They look at economic data and make economic decisions. Reflections would take about 2.5 years to complete, and Disney would want to sell out of Riviera and focus on Reflections about 6 months before opening of Reflections. So, Disney would've expected to sell out of Riviera at about January 2022. Clearly, that will not be the case anymore. Even if they thought Covid-19 would've delayed the sellout of Riviera by 6 months, they would've just paused Reflections or slow-rolled it. However they didn't seem to do that by moving equipment out. Now, it hasn't been officially cancelled, so we can see how it goes. However, if you see Reflections start up, assume they expect to sell out Riviera in about 2 years from that point going forwards.

I don't disagree with any of your comments on the future of Riviera.

But this discussion started with my questioning why Pete keeps saying Riviera sales were bad pre-covid- see the last episode of the DVC Show where he said they were not good and he specifically mentioned pre-covid. That's why we keep going back to that, because there are many Rivera/resale restriction haters who insist it was a selling badly over the first 12 months, when the data says the opposite.

And another important data point, the average resale cost per point is nearing $130 with most of those sold post-covid. I would not be disappointed at all getting that kind of money for this restricted resort.

The recession could very well force DVC's hand and they could remove restrictions to get sales moving again especially with delays in other resorts. Not sure DVC 2.0 makes sense with just one resort.

 

[Sandisw]

Realistically the resale restrictions shouldn't affect anyone that wants to buy Riviera and doesn't plan on selling at all. After all, if you never sell Riviera, you don't have to worry about how the market will react to the resale restrictions.

However, with the economic uncertainty, people are now going to have to think about that reality and what the market will be like. The resale restrictions only made sense if the market and economy was going to go gangbusters. You can say everything was great pre-Covid-19. But, that's like buying a house before the housing market crash. You will never have to worry about the resale value of the house if you never have to sell your house. It wouldn't just have been Covid-19 that caused issues for Riviera. It could be a recession. Again, anything where people suddenly worry about having to sell assets for cash.

I would also say that with the reopening, if the appetite for Riviera was the same, the pent-up demand would've just rushed to purchase Riviera as soon as DVC opened. That does not seem to be the case based on data from August and September.

What's the biggest sign that Riviera sales are not going well? Disney stopped work on Reflections - AFTER they already spent lots of money prepping the land. Disney isn't a charity case. They look at economic data and make economic decisions. Reflections would take about 2.5 years to complete, and Disney would want to sell out of Riviera and focus on Reflections about 6 months before opening of Reflections. So, Disney would've expected to sell out of Riviera at about January 2022. Clearly, that will not be the case anymore. Even if they thought Covid-19 would've delayed the sellout of Riviera by 6 months, they would've just paused Reflections or slow-rolled it. However they didn't seem to do that by moving equipment out. Now, it hasn't been officially cancelled, so we can see how it goes. However, if you see Reflections start up, assume they expect to sell out Riviera in about 2 years from that point going forwards.

Disney stopping Reflections had nothing to do with DVC sales, considering it was not a DVC only resort,

They stopped it because they are losing a ton of money company wide and they know it’s not the time to add more hotel rooms to the property when guest visits are down and they don’t even have enough occupancy to open all resorts,

My DD works for them in NYC and with Broadway shut down, it’s costing the company a ton of money, So, they are rethinking things which is part of why Frozen is not coming back.

People can decide on RIV and the importance of resale restrctions, but the sales have not been a complete flop, no matter how many times we see or hear people try to say they are.

 

[BruinEd03]

Disney stopping Reflections had nothing to do with DVC sales, considering it was not a DVC only resort,

They stopped it because they are losing a ton of money company wide and they know it’s not the time to add more hotel rooms to the property when guest visits are down and they don’t even have enough occupancy to open all resorts,

My DD works for them in NYC and with Broadway shut down, it’s costing the company a ton of money, So, they are rethinking things which is part of why Frozen is not coming back.

People can decide on RIV and the importance of resale restrctions, but the sales have not been a complete flop, no matter how many times we see or hear people try to say they are.

In July/August, 2022 (my best guess for when Reflections would be open if construction had continued as normal), my bet is that Disney will be back to normal for operations. The hotel rooms don't come online instantaneously. If the DVC Riviera sales were doing really well, you would think that Disney would continue with the project because that's just extra cash that they can rake in (and essentially help fund a non-DVC hotel). If they stopped Reflections and had nothing to sell between Reflections and Disneyland DVC, then that would be an interruption of cash flow. So far, it shows that Disney does not expect to sell out Riviera until 6 months before Disneyland DVC opens up.

I came to my conclusion by looking at the numbers. The numbers so far say that sales aren't close to expectations. Not that you are, but just in case - don't take that for judgment on anyone buying Riviera. I'm just judging the success of sales.

 

[Sandisw]

In July/August, 2022 (my best guess for when Reflections would be open if construction had continued as normal), my bet is that Disney will be back to normal for operations. The hotel rooms don't come online instantaneously. If the DVC Riviera sales were doing really well, you would think that Disney would continue with the project because that's just extra cash that they can rake in (and essentially help fund a non-DVC hotel). If they stopped Reflections and had nothing to sell between Reflections and Disneyland DVC, then that would be an interruption of cash flow. So far, it shows that Disney does not expect to sell out Riviera until 6 months before Disneyland DVC opens up.

I came to my conclusion by looking at the numbers. The numbers so far say that sales aren't close to expectations. Not that you are, but just in case - don't take that for judgment on anyone buying Riviera. I'm just judging the success of sales.

No judgement at all but unless someone is a Disney executive and knows what they expected, everyone else is just guessing.

Pror to Covid, it was doing similar numbers to VGF and CCV. Considering it’s a different product, it’s really hard to say that’s not good.

Again, the company is making decisions based on economics and what to spend given the losses. As I said, I have a child who works for the company and I’ll just say again lots of behind the scene projects being scrappEd and changed.

We can then agree to disagree but I do not believe they scraped reflections because of sales of RIV

 

[DVCsloth]

The resale restrictions don't bother me too much with Riviera. If I were to add on there, I would choose it for it's access to Epcot and Hollywood studios. I did choose to add on at CCV instead though. We got our chance to stay at the Riviera a few weeks ago and I really enjoyed my stay. The gondolas were down a few times and there was a really long (about 30 minutes at CBR station) wait to transfer to HS. We had a view of the gondola station so we could look out the window and see if it was running or not. As soon as we saw it was down we headed over to the bus stop and jumped on a bus right away. Not sure if our timing was lucky or if Disney is being extra careful to have busses ready to avoid any negative transportation issues, but the busses were awesome. Same thing going back from HS, busses almost right away. Definatley love the resort and I would have no issue adding points there.

 

[BruinEd03]

I don't disagree with any of your comments on the future of Riviera.

But this discussion started with my questioning why Pete keeps saying Riviera sales were bad pre-covid- see the last episode of the DVC Show where he said they were not good and he specifically mentioned pre-covid. That's why we keep going back to that, because there are many Rivera/resale restriction haters who insist it was a selling badly over the first 12 months, when the data says the opposite.

And another important data point, the average resale cost per point is nearing $130 with most of those sold post-covid. I would not be disappointed at all getting that kind of money for this restricted resort.

The recession could very well force DVC's hand and they could remove restrictions to get sales moving again especially with delays in other resorts. Not sure DVC 2.0 makes sense with just one resort.

Except, I don't think it was doing all that well. Let's compare the first 12 months of Riviera with CCV.

First 12 months of CCV

Month Number	Month	Year	Points Sold	Monthly Points %	Total Points Sold	Total Points Sold %	Notes
1​	April	2017​	51,675​	1.57​	51,675​	1.57​	Poly: 167,904
2​	May	2017​	34,269​	1.04​	85,944​	2.60​	Poly: 150,335
3​	June	2017​	40,969​	1.24​	126,913​	3.85​	Poly: 138,581
4​	July	2017​	45,553​	1.38​	172,466​	5.23​	Poly: 107,734; Copper Creek Opens
5​	August	2017​	59,527​	1.80​	231,993​	7.03​	Poly: 114,702
6​	September	2017​	66,520​	2.02​	298,513​	9.05​	Poly: 93,146
7​	October	2017​	75,576​	2.29​	374,089​	11.34​	Poly: 83,322
8​	November	2017​	85,500​	2.59​	459,589​	13.93​	Poly: 85,500
9​	December	2017​	67,849​	2.06​	527,438​	15.98​	Poly: 68,231
10​	January	2018​	109,442​	3.32​	636,880​	19.30​	Poly: 103,166
11​	February	2018​	141,452​	4.29​	778,332​	23.59​	Poly: 51,880
12​	March	2018​	175,167​	5.31​	953,499​	28.89​	Poly: 19,946

First 12 months of RIV (edited - I had the wrong denominator. I used 5.3 million points for Riviera when it has 6.7 million points)

Month Number	Month	Year	Points Sold	Monthly Points %	Total Points Sold	Total Points Sold %	Notes
1​	April	2019​	59,246​	0.88​	59,246​	0.88​	Copper Creek: 166,129
2​	May	2019​	97,988​	1.46​	157,234​	2.35​	Copper Creek: 75,019
3​	June	2019​	114,091​	1.70​	271,325​	4.05​	Copper Creek: 83,305
4​	July	2019​	108,675​	1.62​	380,000​	5.67​	Copper Creek: 52,837
5​	August	2019​	104,759​	1.56​	484,759​	7.24​	Copper Creek: 28,288
6​	September	2019​	92,385​	1.38​	577,144​	8.61​	Copper Creek: 17,343
7​	October	2019​	97,100​	1.45​	674,244​	10.06​	Copper Creek: 13,735
8​	November	2019​	102,764​	1.53​	777,008​	11.60​	Copper Creek: 7,842
9​	December	2019​	121,869​	1.82​	898,877​	13.42​	Copper Creek: 7,066; Riviera Opens
10​	January	2020​	181,289​	2.71​	1,080,166​	16.12​	Copper Creek: 6,318
11​	February	2020​	139,205​	2.08​	1,219,371​	18.20​	Copper Creek: 4,305
12​	March	2020​	153,416​	2.29​	1,372,787​	20.49​	Copper Creek: 8,037

At the end of March, CCV sold 28.89% of its total points while Riviera sold 20.49% of its total points. That may not seem like a large difference, but note how many more Poly points that CCV had to compete with. On the flip side, CCV was already almost sold out by the time Riviera was being sold. CCV had to deal with 1,184,447 Poly points being sold. On the flip side, Riviera had to deal with 407,224 CCV points being sold.

Total DVC points being sold for the 2 main properties for the first 12 months that CCV is being sold (Poly + CCV) = 2,137,946. Total DVC points being sold for the 2 main properties for the first 12 months that Riviera is being sold (CCV + Riviera) = 1,780,008. The difference is 357,938 points, or 16.7% reduction in points sold.

I get that one of the differences is that Riviera is a new resort and that CCV and Poly are popular resorts, but again, that's an excuse for the slower sales, not the fact that sales are slower. I don't know how much of that is attributable to the resale restrictions, but I don't think resale restrictions "help" direct sales.

As for $130 contracts, I don't think there's enough data points. For example, if the market was flooded with sales. The people buying could be people who already own at Riviera and are just looking to add on. However, if the resale price maintained at $130 or $140 - I agree, who cares.

 

[TexasChick123]

Except, I don't think it was doing all that well. Let's compare the first 12 months of Riviera with CCV.

First 12 months of CCV

Month Number	Month	Year	Points Sold	Monthly Points %	Total Points Sold	Total Points Sold %	Notes
1​	April	2017​	51,675​	1.57​	51,675​	1.57​	Poly: 167,904
2​	May	2017​	34,269​	1.04​	85,944​	2.60​	Poly: 150,335
3​	June	2017​	40,969​	1.24​	126,913​	3.85​	Poly: 138,581
4​	July	2017​	45,553​	1.38​	172,466​	5.23​	Poly: 107,734; Copper Creek Opens
5​	August	2017​	59,527​	1.80​	231,993​	7.03​	Poly: 114,702
6​	September	2017​	66,520​	2.02​	298,513​	9.05​	Poly: 93,146
7​	October	2017​	75,576​	2.29​	374,089​	11.34​	Poly: 83,322
8​	November	2017​	85,500​	2.59​	459,589​	13.93​	Poly: 85,500
9​	December	2017​	67,849​	2.06​	527,438​	15.98​	Poly: 68,231
10​	January	2018​	109,442​	3.32​	636,880​	19.30​	Poly: 103,166
11​	February	2018​	141,452​	4.29​	778,332​	23.59​	Poly: 51,880
12​	March	2018​	175,167​	5.31​	953,499​	28.89​	Poly: 19,946

First 12 months of RIV

Month Number	Month	Year	Points Sold	Monthly Points %	Total Points Sold	Total Points Sold %	Notes
1​	April	2019​	59,246​	1.12​	59,246​	1.12​	Copper Creek: 166,129
2​	May	2019​	97,988​	1.85​	157,234​	2.97​	Copper Creek: 75,019
3​	June	2019​	114,091​	2.15​	271,325​	5.12​	Copper Creek: 83,305
4​	July	2019​	108,675​	2.05​	380,000​	7.17​	Copper Creek: 52,837
5​	August	2019​	104,759​	1.98​	484,759​	9.15​	Copper Creek: 28,288
6​	September	2019​	92,385​	1.74​	577,144​	10.89​	Copper Creek: 17,343
7​	October	2019​	97,100​	1.83​	674,244​	12.72​	Copper Creek: 13,735
8​	November	2019​	102,764​	1.94​	777,008​	14.66​	Copper Creek: 7,842
9​	December	2019​	121,869​	2.30​	898,877​	16.96​	Copper Creek: 7,066; Riviera Opens
10​	January	2020​	181,289​	3.42​	1,080,166​	20.38​	Copper Creek: 6,318
11​	February	2020​	139,205​	2.63​	1,219,371​	23.01​	Copper Creek: 4,305
12​	March	2020​	153,416​	2.89​	1,372,787​	25.90​	Copper Creek: 8,037

At the end of March, CCV sold 28.89% of its total points while Riviera sold 25.90% of its total points. That may not seem like a large difference, but note how many more Poly points that CCV had to compete with. On the flip side, CCV was already almost sold out by the time Riviera was being sold. CCV had to deal with 1,184,447 Poly points being sold. On the flip side, Riviera had to deal with 407,224 CCV points being sold.

Total DVC points being sold for the 2 main properties for the first 12 months that CCV is being sold (Poly + CCV) = 2,137,946. Total DVC points being sold for the 2 main properties for the first 12 months that Riviera is being sold (CCV + Riviera) = 1,780,008. The difference is 357,938 points, or 16.7% reduction in points sold.

I get that one of the differences is that Riviera is a new resort and that CCV and Poly are popular resorts, but again, that's an excuse for the slower sales, not the fact that sales are slower. I don't know how much of that is attributable to the resale restrictions, but I don't think resale restrictions "help" direct sales.

As for $130 contracts, I don't think there's enough data points. For example, if the market was flooded with sales. The people buying could be people who already own at Riviera and are just looking to add on. However, if the resale price maintained at $130 or $140 - I agree, who cares.

You can’t look at percentage of points sold. Riviera is a much larger resort than CCV. Riviera sold more direct points than CCV did in its first 12 months. That’s a fact. Percentages are meaningless when the size is larger. If you have 6 million points to sell for Riviera (I’m making this number up) versus 2 million for CCV, then CCV will sell out much faster. RIV sold 1.37 million points in its first 12 months versus 953k at CCV in its first 12 months. Um...that would mean they sold more RIV points despite the restrictions. I want the restrictions gone, but sales didn’t seem to be suffering then. Looking at things now with an economic downturn, sales have suffered at all properties. I remain hopeful the restrictions will be taken away in an effort to help boost sales.

Also, I said this in another thread, but I’ll say it here too. This isn’t directed at any one person. I wouldn’t break out the champagne just yet with the DL tower. There’s a ton of turmoil in CA right now with the parks. It very well could be scrapped like Reflections. I don’t think they’ve started construction on it yet. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. I think they’ve only gotten to the permitting stage.

 

[UrsulaWantsYourSoul]

You can’t look at percentage of points sold. Riviera is a much larger resort than CCV. Riviera sold more direct points than CCV did in its first 12 months. That’s a fact. Percentages are meaningless when the size is larger.

This is really helpful info to dispel the rumor it wasn't selling well. Right now I think part of what is holding back sales of Riviera are the current incentives on sold out resorts - people are adding on there. It has a lot of competition currently.

 

[BruinEd03]

You can’t look at percentage of points sold. Riviera is a much larger resort than CCV. Riviera sold more direct points than CCV did in its first 12 months. That’s a fact. Percentages are meaningless when the size is larger. If you have 6 million points to sell for Riviera (I’m making this number up) versus 2 million for CCV, then CCV will sell out much faster. RIV sold 1.37 million points in its first 12 months versus 953k at CCV in its first 12 months. Um...that would mean they sold more RIV points despite the restrictions. I want the restrictions gone, but sales didn’t seem to be suffering then. Looking at things now with an economic downturn, sales have suffered at all properties. I remain hopeful the restrictions will be taken away in an effort to help boost sales.

Also, I said this in another thread, but I’ll say it here too. This isn’t directed at any one person. I wouldn’t break out the champagne just yet with the DL tower. There’s a ton of turmoil in CA right now with the parks. It very well could be scrapped like Reflections. I don’t think they’ve started construction on it yet. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. I think they’ve only gotten to the permitting stage.

I think you take a look at both, percentage and absolute numbers. Percentage tells you the pace at which the resort is sold out. Yes, Riviera is larger than CCV, but at the same time, how fast does Disney expect Riviera to sell out? I mean it certainly isn't selling out at a faster pace than CCV.

As for absolute numbers, yes more Riviera points were sold. You could stop the analysis there and think everything is great. However, you look at the context of CCV's sales. That's the reason I did the second part of the analysis. It was also competing with Poly for a large portion of its first 12 months. When you add the total points up for CCV and Poly for the first 12 months of CCV, you get 2.1 million points sold. When you add the total points for Riviera and CCV for the first 12 months of Riviera, you get 1.78 million points sold, a reduction of 16.7%.

What that tells us is that Poly + CCV is more popular than CCV + Riviera. Now why that is? I'm not speculating. It could be due to point cost increases. It could be due to resale restrictions. It could be due to people not knowing Riviera or just generally not liking Riviera. The point cost increase and the people not knowing Riviera can be remedied by 1.) having discounts for points; and 2.) time (as more people book Riviera). However, at some point, they will be able to narrow down the issues, and one of the issues may actually be the resale restrictions.

Of course, if Riviera sales goes gangbusters through the end of the year, then well, we can say that the data so far was wrong and that Riviera really is popular. However, the data so far has not shown Riviera sales to be doing well.

Just for fun, I also looked at the first 12 months of Poly - which also had competing sales with VGF and Aulani. The end result is after 12 months, Poly had 858,685 points sold from January 2015 to December 2015, or 21.29% of its total points. The other actively sold resorts VGF and Aulani combined for approximately 1,400,000 points. When you add up the sales of all 3 resorts, you get 2.26 million points.

I also went to look back at Aulani sales, but they weren't available after June 2017. However, we can just take a very conservative guess that it would be an average of 10k points / month for the relevant time period for CCV. It was 22k in April 2017 and 16K in May 2017 and that continued a downward slide.

I'll also assume that Aulani sales remain steady at about 5k points / month for Riviera's first 12 months. (Keep in mind it's 2 years later)

So to recap:

First 12 months of Poly, actively sold resorts (Poly + VGF + Aulani) is approx. 2.26 million points.
First 12 months of CCV, actively sold resorts (CCV + Poly) is approx. 2.1 million points. (Decrease of 7%) + 120,000 points (Aulani) = 2.22 million points. (Decrease of 1.76%)
First 12 months of Riviera, actively sold resorts (CCV + Riv) is approx. 1.78 million points. (Decrease of 16%) + 60,000 points (Aulani) = 1.84 million points. (Decrease of 17.1%)

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Why is there such disdain for riviera? I haven’t ever seen such negative comments about any other DVC property. It’s mind boggling to me.

you would think the resort is absolutely horrendous or something the way people talk about it.

Every single resort has had people who love it and people who don't like it at all and the rest somewhere between and many posted their thoughts about them on multiple threads and even the same thread more than once. I don't see a lot of difference in that regard.

DVC drew a line in the sand with the resale restrictions which adds a negative in many owners minds that came about with Riviera but that doesn't have anything to do specifically with things about the resort. It would be the same reaction if it had happened with CCV, PVB, VGF etc.

I'll take a stab at the top negatives of most resorts from the past 12-15 years that in the past that were covered repeatedly and still are today:
SSR - too big. Looks like Grandmas house - bland decor. Points too high - should have been the same as OKW. Remote and buses only.
AKV - too far from everything. Buses only. Too dark. Animals are going to increase dues a lot.
BLT - cheap "Ikea" furniture. Overlooks a parking lot. Tiny studio with bathroom sink in the kitchen. Small pool. Point charts too high..
VGF - looks like Grandma's house. No great views was a big one before it opened. Point charts.
PVB - studios only and too dark. Oh - Bungalows. Destroyed the Poly resort. Point charts. Dues.
CCV - Occupancy, dues, too many Cabins. Decor had a fair amount of discussion.
Riv - overlooks a moderate, Skyway, decor, point charts.

Decor, transportation, dues, point charts, amenities, views. All a commonality.

I've probably missed a few but most of them still come up pretty frequently. These specific boards discuss DVC and DVC is a collection of timeshare resorts that are not identical.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

So to recap:

First 12 months of Poly, actively sold resorts (Poly + VGF + Aulani) is approx. 2.26 million points.
First 12 months of CCV, actively sold resorts (CCV + Poly) is approx. 2.1 million points. (Decrease of 7%) + 120,000 points (Aulani) = 2.22 million points. (Decrease of 1.76%)
First 12 months of Riviera, actively sold resorts (CCV + Riv) is approx. 1.78 million points. (Decrease of 16%) + 60,000 points (Aulani) = 1.84 million points. (Decrease of 17.1%)

What also would be interesting and add to the picture is how many points were sold at "sold out" resorts to new buyers during those periods

 

[RoseGold]

What also would be interesting and add to the picture is how many points were sold at "sold out" resorts to new buyers during those periods

They were foreclosing then. Right now is all ROFR, and boy is resale looking tight right now.

 

[Sheriff1]

I think there are a few factors involved in why direct sales at sold out resorts are up, rather than just RIV is bad. DVD have changed their stance on selling sold out resorts fairly drastically since Covid, if they had not who knows how many of those would have ending up buying RIV rather than waitlist. I know some people will be setting out to buy direct without considering the resale market or for blue card and will be buying sold out resorts as an alternative to RIV. But I have also seen some people going direct for a sold out resort after they’ve attempted to buy resale at that resort and had it taken or they’ve seen the long timeline to get points currently and decided against it.

 

[Bing Showei]

Every single resort has had people who love it and people who don't like it at all and the rest somewhere between and many posted their thoughts about them on multiple threads and even the same thread more than once. I don't see a lot of difference in that regard.

DVC drew a line in the sand with the resale restrictions which adds a negative in many owners minds that came about with Riviera but that doesn't have anything to do specifically with things about the resort. It would be the same reaction if it had happened with CCV, PVB, VGF etc.

I'll take a stab at the top negatives of most resorts from the past 12-15 years that in the past that were covered repeatedly and still are today:
SSR - too big. Looks like Grandmas house - bland decor. Points too high - should have been the same as OKW. Remote and buses only.
AKV - too far from everything. Buses only. Too dark. Animals are going to increase dues a lot.
BLT - cheap "Ikea" furniture. Overlooks a parking lot. Tiny studio with bathroom sink in the kitchen. Small pool. Point charts too high..
VGF - looks like Grandma's house. No great views was a big one before it opened. Point charts.
PVB - studios only and too dark. Oh - Bungalows. Destroyed the Poly resort. Point charts. Dues.
CCV - Occupancy, dues, too many Cabins. Decor had a fair amount of discussion.
Riv - overlooks a moderate, Skyway, decor, point charts.

Decor, transportation, dues, point charts, amenities, views. All a commonality.

I've probably missed a few but most of them still come up pretty frequently. These specific boards discuss DVC and DVC is a collection of timeshare resorts that are not identical.

I think it’s human nature that we all have sensitivities to what we own.

For me, on completely non-VGF related threads threads, it keeps coming up that VGF is hoity toity; not a welcoming place for kids; a “certain kind of crowd”; isolated from main resort; lobby is small; point charts are worse than Riviera; monorail is old, stinky, unreliable, slow, a death trap.

Interestingly a lot of these come about via whataboutisms in defense of Riviera.

My SSR list goes on and on, but suffice it to say, it’s the pariah resort where the leper occupants are the primary target of most resale-restriction-supporters’ ire.

And honestly, there’s some truth to all of the above about my resorts. It’s just not the whole picture, which for me, is primarily how much my family loves our Disney timeshare stays. At the end of the day, that’s all that matters. The rest of it is noise. I just don’t care enough to rebut it every time it happens.