The Genie Usage, Tips and Strategy ONLY Thread

mab2012 said:
Except from outside of the US. :mad:

So irritating that Disney is geofencing international users. If the nearly 330 million Americans who are not currently at Disney can see and use the tip board, is there any rational reason to block international users from doing the same?

And yeah, I can pay for a VPN service to get around it, or use one of the crappy, ad-supported free ones. But I really shouldn't have to.

</rant>
Click to expand...
I believe they fixed that for iPhones with the latest update but the recent update for Android didn't fix it. I've again emailed to complain about that.
 
What happens if you miss your ILL$ time slot? Let's say I book RotR for 1:00-2:00, and then my lunch ADR runs long because the restaurant was behind in seating. So I arrive at RotR at 2:10. I'm assuming that there is a 15-minute grace period, since I have read that there is one for regular Genie+ LLs. Can anyone confirm that?

But what if I don't get there until 2:20 (after the grace period). Am I just out of luck? Does Disney just eat the $60 that I paid for my family?
 
Grasshopper2016 said:
What happens if you miss your ILL$ time slot? Let's say I book RotR for 1:00-2:00, and then my lunch ADR runs long because the restaurant was behind in seating. So I arrive at RotR at 2:10. I'm assuming that there is a 15-minute grace period, since I have read that there is one for regular Genie+ LLs. Can anyone confirm that?

But what if I don't get there until 2:20 (after the grace period). Am I just out of luck? Does Disney just eat the $60 that I paid for my family?
Click to expand...

One of the YouTube bloggers compared it to buying a movie ticket. You booked for a specific performance time and that’s it. I guess in practice guest services might help?
 
aeasterling said:
No, if you mean the ILL$ (ie FOP or ROTR) you won't be able to. When we were there last week, my son was only there for 2 days with us and so had separate tickets. So even though he WAS in our room, he wasn't a resort guest in the system. On our first day, I tried to buy ROTR at 7am and I wasn't able to include him.
Click to expand...

Good info - Thank you!
 
Grasshopper2016 said:
What happens if you miss your ILL$ time slot? Let's say I book RotR for 1:00-2:00, and then my lunch ADR runs long because the restaurant was behind in seating. So I arrive at RotR at 2:10. I'm assuming that there is a 15-minute grace period, since I have read that there is one for regular Genie+ LLs. Can anyone confirm that?

But what if I don't get there until 2:20 (after the grace period). Am I just out of luck? Does Disney just eat the $60 that I paid for my family?
Click to expand...
I know that back in the days of BGs you could show your dining receipt and be admitted late to RotR. I can’t specifically remember reading the same about ILL$ but I do think that would be the case for them too. Hopefully someone soon will confirm it.
 
itf said:
One of the YouTube bloggers compared it to buying a movie ticket. You booked for a specific performance time and that’s it. I guess in practice guest services might help?
Click to expand...
Of course in most movie theatres if the reason you can’t get into the theatre in time is because the line to get int he building is around the block, the theatre is probably refunding your money. Also, every major movie theatre chain will refund your ticket if you miss the show for nearly any reason. Probably because theatre chains are not run by Bob Chapek. In fact, if you don’t like a movie and leave halfway through and ask for a refund, most movie chains will give it. (I have not done this personally).
 
letsgobirds said:
It 100% works. Was holding 3 most of the day at MK today via combo of expire and 120 minute eligibility. Booked HM for 10. RD in rain so short lines , then expired HM . At 1102 booked JC for 130 (120 min rule) first tapped into HM at 1105 and booked Splash, then after second tap added BTMR. Don't think the first or second tap mattered, just that after 120 min I was eligible to book and after expiration I was also eligible to book, then after ride (second tap) was again eligible to book. Worked great all day, w the caveat that it was low crowds due to terrible monsoon rain
Click to expand...

So, if I’m understanding you right, your first LL was for Haunted Mansion with a return time of 10-11. Just after 11 you were able to book 3 LL for the following reasons:

1. It was 2 hours since you booked your first reservation.

2. Your HM LL ”expired“ at 11, and

3. You were still able to ride HM before 11:15 because of the usual “grace period”, and the system let you book another LL because you had used one.

That‘s pretty wild that they let you book another LL based on one attraction being technically “expired” and then a second one for riding the same attraction. That sounds like the kind of thing that nobody would intentionally design. But, the number of people that would know you could do it and then execute it is probably so small that it doesn’t have much impact.

I‘m not sure if I want to go through the maneuvering that it would take to time that out and execute it, but I might have to try it sometime for amusement.
 
Einstein509 said:
Reading through all of this makes my head hurt. The amount of strategery, questions, planning, scheming, figuring out how to maximize the use of this system is stressful. This is not a vacation anymore. It's more like a military operation. I think the invasion of Normandy had a one page order........we're on page 44 of this thread. Wow.
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I think we may need some type of training classes on how to work this Genie 😂
 
wisblue said:
You can still do it with a short wait right at 9, but the objective is to get that LL after 11 to set up the stack.

We have always had good luck doing BTMRR, Splash (when it’s warm enough that early), HM, and POC with fairly short waits in the first 2 hours. The standby line at JC generally builds up faster than at the other 4.
Click to expand...

So you need to wait 2 hours after park opening to have your first LL in order to do the hack where you get multiple LL at one time? Help me think this through..let's say you have a park opening at 9 am but you get a LL for ride A from 9:15 - 10:15 and let the window expire. At 10:16 you get a new LL for ride B then at 10:17 tap in and use ride A. After you tap into ride A couldn't you get a LL for ride C? Which means after you are done with ride A, you would have 2 LL (one for ride B and one for ride C). Am I missing this? I don't see why you need to wait 2 hours after park opening to get a LL unless you want to have an additional LL so ride D? Thanks for clarifying. It is a bit confusing.
 
mab2012 said:
Based on what we know about how the system is working, I strongly suspect the implementation is something like this:
  • When a LL is booked, a timestamp is set tracking the next eligible booking time**
  • When an existing LL is used ("tapped in") or cancelled, the eligibility timestamp is cleared
  • The user can book a new LL if (and only if) no timestamp is set, or it is in the past. In practice, the way this likely works is that whenever a page is loaded that might allow a LL pass to be booked, the system does a check on any existing timestamp against the current time, and clears the timestamp if it is in the past.
Click to expand...

This is all 100% correct, to the best of my understanding. I do not have any special insight into how Disney actually implemented things. I'm an experienced software engineer and based on my observations of how things work, I would bet that the internals are pretty close to this.

I ran a bunch of tests looking at various combinations of overlapping stacked reservations, booking and canceling reservations in different orders, etc., so this is all based on my observations, not other people's reports. Keep in mind that Disney can change this at any time, so this is how it was working last week. Disney has tweaked every version of FastPass at least once or twice, so it's entirely possible some of this may change. Mostly Disney will be analyzing whether there are people hogging too much of the attraction capacity. If that happens, expect Disney to take action.

Anyway, Genie+ is what we call in computer science a "state machine". It's a simple implementation that keeps track of a state or states and simple rules for transitioning between the various states.

In this case there are only two states for each guest: 1) Eligible to book a Genie+ reservation, or 2) Not eligible to book a Genie+ reservation.

There is one (or maybe two) field(s) in a database tracking your status all day.

You begin the day in state 1, "eligible."

When you book a reservation, you go to state 2, "not eligible" and an eligibility time is set for when you'll be eligible assuming nothing makes you eligible before that point. (Much of the time, something will happen, like tapping into a reservation, and the eligibility time is moot.)

The eligibility time is set like this:
  • If the park that the attraction is in is not yet open, eligibility is the earlier of the end of the arrival window and 2 hours after park opening.
  • If the park that the attraction is in is open, eligibility is the earlier of the end of the arrival window and 2 hours from the current time.

Examples:
  • It's 7:02. Park opens at 9:00
    • You book a 9:30-10:30 reservation. Eligibility time: 10:30 (end of arrival window)
    • You book a 10:30-11:30 reservation. Eligibility time: 11:00 (2 hours after opening)
  • It's 10:02. Park opened at 9:00
    • You book a 10:30-11:30 reservation. Eligibility time: 11:30 (end of arrival window)
    • You book an 11:30-12:30 reservation. Eligibility time: 12:02 (2 hours from right now)

You can always view your eligibility time by trying to book. If it succeeds, you're eligible now. If it fails, you will either be shown when you will be eligible again, or you'll get a screen with an "Edit" button you can tap to see when you'll be eligible again.

When you tap into a reservation (including during the grace period), you move to state 1, "eligible."

When you cancel a reservation (including during the grace period, though your cancellation grace period seems to be shorter), you move to state 1, "eligible."

When a ride goes down within or just before your arrival window, and you haven't already ridden, you get a multi-attraction pass and you move to state 1, "eligible."

Whenever you become eligible for any reason, the eligibility time is cleared and is no longer relevant.

Now, the implication of all these rules is that you can, in general, wait until the eligibility time arrives, become eligible, book a new reservation, and also tap into or cancel your existing reservation (possibly taking advantage of the grace period), become eligible, and book another new reservation.

It also implies that once you have two outstanding reservations, you can keep two outstanding reservations for the rest of the day, because every time you tap into or cancel one, you can book another. If you forget, and tap into or cancel two in a row without booking in between, you lose an opportunity to book and now have one fewer reservation outstanding.

What you can't do:

  • You can't take advantage of both the 2 hour eligibility rule and the "end of the arrival window" rule for the same reservation. They're the same rule - there's just one eligibility time which is either 2 hours away or at the end of your arrival window.
  • You can't take advantage of the eligibility time, book something, and then immediately take advantage of the eligibility time for another overlapping reservation you booked earlier. The system only stores one time, which was set the last time you booked a reservation.

I hope this answers every question, and folks can just point people back to this. At least until Disney changes the rules...

Don
 
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disneymom1026 said:
So you need to wait 2 hours after park opening to have your first LL in order to do the hack where you get multiple LL at one time? Help me think this through..let's say you have a park opening at 9 am but you get a LL for ride A from 9:15 - 10:15 and let the window expire. At 10:16 you get a new LL for ride B then at 10:17 tap in and use ride A. After you tap into ride A couldn't you get a LL for ride C? Which means after you are done with ride A, you would have 2 LL (one for ride B and one for ride C). Am I missing this? I don't see why you need to wait 2 hours after park opening to get a LL unless you want to have an additional LL so ride D? Thanks for clarifying. It is a bit confusing.
Click to expand...

I am not talking about the tactic of letting a LL “expire” and then riding during the grace period. That requires some timing that I don’t intend to use.

Others have tried that and say it works. I’m probably going to be less fancy and go for the more straightforward double stack.

The thing I don’t like about attempting this type of triple stack is that it forces you to squeeze the use of that first LL attraction into a 15 minute window.

I want to use early entry and the first two hours after regular opening to do some of our favorite attractions standby and then set up the double stack to be used at least in part at a second park.

In our experience we should be able to do at least 4 or 5 of our favorites at MK before 11. For example: 7DMT at 8:30, possibly PP if we get off 7DMT quickly, then some or all of BTMRR, Splash, POC, HM, and JC when that side of the park opens at 9.

Because JC builds up a standby line faster than the other 4, that’s my logical choice for that first LL.

With a return time of say, 11:10-12:10, we have a window of 80 minutes to ride JC. We might decide to go after lunch depending on how everything else goes. (We generally eat lunch early at the parks because we don’t have a big breakfast and want to beat the rush at the QSR) I don’t want to be somewhere at 10:45 and be hamstrung because we have to make sure to get to and ride JC between 11:00 and 11:15 To take advantage of the ”expire then ride” required by a 10-11 return time.
 
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AnnaKristoff2013 said:
Of course in most movie theatres if the reason you can’t get into the theatre in time is because the line to get int he building is around the block, the theatre is probably refunding your money. Also, every major movie theatre chain will refund your ticket if you miss the show for nearly any reason. Probably because theatre chains are not run by Bob Chapek. In fact, if you don’t like a movie and leave halfway through and ask for a refund, most movie chains will give it. (I have not done this personally).
Click to expand...

I think the reason for this is two fold. First, (bc the main point of selling these is for more profits) if they sell X amount for each time, and you buy one of the open slots - another person cannot buy that slot. So if you move your boarding time to another time slot after yours has expired, they have missed out on a sale.
Second, if they sell X number for each hour and a bunch of people from earlier in the day come to ride at say 6:00 it will slow down the stand by line even more and also cause the LL to be slower making some of the people who purchased the 6:00 time slot angry and disappointed that they had to wait.

Yes, I agree that it is annoying and I personally dislike how money grubbing Disney has gotten.
 
It sounds like at SDD and MFSR are the quickest LL to go at HS. What would be the next attractions to have more limited availability and later arrival windows?
 
dmunsil said:
This is all 100% correct, to the best of my understanding. I do not have any special insight into how Disney actually implemented things. I'm an experienced software engineer and based on my observations of how things work, I would bet that the internals are pretty close to this.

I ran a bunch of tests looking at various combinations of overlapping stacked reservations, booking and canceling reservations in different orders, etc., so this is all based on my observations, not other people's reports. Keep in mind that Disney can change this at any time, so this is how it was working last week. Disney has tweaked every version of FastPass at least once or twice, so it's entirely possible some of this may change. Mostly Disney will be analyzing whether there are people hogging too much of the attraction capacity. If that happens, expect Disney to take action.

Anyway, Genie+ is what we call in computer science a "state machine". It's a simple implementation that keeps track of a state or states and simple rules for transitioning between the various states.

In this case there are only two states for each guest: 1) Eligible to book a Genie+ reservation, or 2) Not eligible to book a Genie+ reservation.

There is one (or maybe two) field(s) in a database tracking your status all day.

You begin the day in state 1, "eligible."

When you book a reservation, you go to state 2, "not eligible" and an eligibility time is set for when you'll be eligible assuming nothing makes you eligible before that point. (Much of the time, something will happen, like tapping into a reservation, and the eligibility time is moot.)

The eligibility time is set like this:
  • If the park that the attraction is in is not yet open, eligibility is the earlier of the end of the arrival window and 2 hours after park opening.
  • If the park that the attraction is in is open, eligibility is the earlier of the end of the arrival window and 2 hours from the current time.

Examples:
  • It's 7:02. Park opens at 9:00
    • You book a 9:30-10:30 reservation. Eligibility time: 10:30 (end of arrival window)
    • You book a 10:30-11:30 reservation. Eligibility time: 11:00 (2 hours after opening)
  • It's 10:02. Park opened at 9:00
    • You book a 10:30-11:30 reservation. Eligibility time: 11:30 (end of arrival window)
    • You book an 11:30-12:30 reservation. Eligibility time: 12:02 (2 hours from right now)

You can always view your eligibility time by trying to book. If it succeeds, you're eligible now. If it fails, you will either be shown when you will be eligible again, or you'll get a screen with an "Edit" button you can tap to see when you'll be eligible again.

When you tap into a reservation (including during the grace period), you move to state 1, "eligible."

When you cancel a reservation (including during the grace period, though your cancellation grace period seems to be shorter), you move to state 1, "eligible."

When a ride goes down within or just before your arrival window, and you haven't already ridden, you get a multi-attraction pass and you move to state 1, "eligible."

Whenever you become eligible for any reason, the eligibility time is cleared and is no longer relevant.

Now, the implication of all these rules is that you can, in general, wait until the eligibility time arrives, become eligible, book a new reservation, and also tap into or cancel your existing reservation (possibly taking advantage of the grace period), become eligible, and book another new reservation.

It also implies that once you have two outstanding reservations, you can keep two outstanding reservations for the rest of the day, because every time you tap into or cancel one, you can book another. If you forget, and tap into or cancel two in a row without booking in between, you lose an opportunity to book and now have one fewer reservation outstanding.

What you can't do:

  • You can't take advantage of both the 2 hour eligibility rule and the "end of the arrival window" rule for the same reservation. They're the same rule - there's just one eligibility time which is either 2 hours away or at the end of your arrival window.
  • You can't take advantage of the eligibility time, book something, and then immediately take advantage of the eligibility time for another overlapping reservation you booked earlier. The system only stores one time, which was set the last time you booked a reservation.

I hope this answers every question, and folks can just point people back to this. At least until Disney changes the rules...

Don
Click to expand...
Excellent layout, this was how I saw it before I read the account of tapping into both the 2 hour and grace period simultaneously, but I suspect either something went wrong in the notes, or the system somehow glitched, but regardless, I think this is an excellent and clear explanation that seems unlikely to change dramatically for a while.
 
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