Parenting trends you dislike?

[Lilsia]

For me anyway, there always seem to be a "but". Some of us couldn't BF. Some of us chose not to. No matter what, we don't need it thrown down our throats. We chose what was best at the time.....for US. I truly feel that it is shaming and/or judging when the comeback is always "but" breast fed is best. I hate when people use the bonding excuse. My gosh, if you can only bond breastfeeding then there is something more going on.

I don't use the stupid bonding excuse. That is a bunch of crock. The "but" that you highlighted has nothing to do with your feeling on being "shamed". It has everything to do with the fact the breast milk is the best food for babies. Are you denying that? Do you believe that formula is an exact replica of breast milk or is it as close as we can get? Because that is all that I am saying. But some keep trying to go back to making it about shaming and guilt for some reason. All of this other stuff about "shaming" is on you. No one can make you feel ashamed when you know that you are doing what is right for yourself and your baby. Listen, I did the best that I could with my kids. My oldest would not latch on and I pumped for almost 4 months until I got pregnant again and my mild dried up. My second nursed up until she turned 3 months and then all of a sudden just refused to nurse anymore so we switched to a bottle. I never shame anyone for using formula and everyone has different issues as to why they can not nurse. There is nothing wrong with getting the information out there that breast milk is by far the best food for a baby, but if you can't, there is nothing wrong with formula. I think that everyone should at least try to nurse or pump off the colostrum for the baby's benefit if they can. We need to stop with accusing people of "shaming" just because they have a different opinion. I never said or implied that anyone is a bad mom for using formula. If you have guilt about it, that is on you and not on anyone else. But I sure as heck feel no guilt about giving my baby formula when I had to. But I can also acknowledge that it is not the same as breast milk.

 

[Lilsia]

No we don't have to acknowledge that.
Any statement of X is better than Y is a normative statement, ie a value judgment, ie an opinion, not a fact and would be highly subject to the situation at hand. Breast milk is no more the ideal food for a baby in every single situation than Apple Pie is the best pie in every situation. And failure to acknowledge that is exactly the problem with breastfeeding advocates. And just because someone doesn't say something blatantly obvious like, "You're a bad mother if you bottle feed," doesn't mean they aren't shaming. No. They often put it exactly the way you did. You know mrs..____ that breast feeding is the most ideal food for baby. You want the best for your baby right?????? That may appear to be kinder and gentler, but it is no less shaming and no less condescending.


In these kinds of situations, anything before the "but" is usually hogwash.
I don't mean to be X but _______________Insert being X in the blank.

No. The issue is that many new moms are not being given all of the information. It might depend on where you live, but formula is pushed quite hard at some hospitals where I live. They come right out and tell the moms that it is "just as good" as breast feeding. Yes, we DO have to tell new moms the full truth of things, not just what we think will make them "feel good about themselves". Only when you have all of the information, can you make an informed decision on what you want to do. You are advocating for glossing over the benefits of breast feeding to try to save someone's feelings. And that is just wrong. This has nothing to do with "judging people", frankly I don't know why some of you are so hung up on this, and everything to do with educating new moms. I would think that the days of keeping woman in the dark about their bodies is long past, but I guess some of you would like to just pacify woman and keep them "calm" by telling them what you think they want to hear instead of making sure they have all of the information that they need.

 

[Lilsia]

I'll give you all of that. I find it curious though that in your early posts you asserted breast-feeding was also superior for bonding, implied if not implicit that it was proven as well. You seem to have backed away from that. Why? Was it just rhetoric or are you willing to defend that point the same way you have defended the nutritional aspects? I'm just speculating here and open to correction but my guess would be you would definitely include "bonding" as a benefit if you were advising a new mother on feeding.

I never said that nursing was to help bonding. You have me mistaken for someone else.

 

[VandVsmama]

Half of this thread is full of "blah blah blah breastfeeding."

** edited to add **
My kids are now 15 and 13 and you know what? Nobody gives a rip that they were each breastfed for a year. Seriously. It doesn't matter. Parents should feed their babies through whatever way works best for them. Breastfeeding for me was hard work. With YDD, I went back to work 6 weeks after she was born. I worked 50 hr/week. Had a very hard keeping up my supply. Was only able to produce about half of what YDD needed, and that was even with taking this stuff called "More Milk Plus" and doing all of the crunchy granola things to keep up my milk supply. I pumped a couple of times during the work day. I pumped right after nursing YDD at bed time. And when she woke up in the middle of the night to eat, after she ate and went back to sleep, I pumped for another 15 min in the wee hours of the night. For an entire stinking year, ok?

Nobody tells you how much work it is. I ended up with mastitis at one point, and YDD & I kept passing thrush back and forth a few times. I ended up with a clogged duct a couple of times, too...in the same breast that 2.5 yr ago ended up with breast cancer, ironically.

The pediatrician and the people at the hospital honestly were of zero help. I got help from friends who were successful at nursing and by going to weekly in person nursing support groups while I was on maternity leave with ODD.

Both of my kids got half of their nutrition from formula. I know moms whose kids were entirely fed from formula. Those kids are fine. My kids are fine. It's not a stinking contest, ok? Y'all need to take a chill pill over it. Go argue about cloth vs disposable diapers or something like that. Or whose kid is smarter because of the preschool you put them in or whatever.

 

[TippyThomas]

I didn't realize breast feeding was such an emotionally charged issue. Certainly been an interesting read.

 

[Turn the Page]

The kookiest breast vs bottle debate I ever saw was some looney tunes I knew in high school posting a photo of an ingredients label on a can of powdered formula and the caption read "store bought formula is 80% fat and sugar. And we feed this to our babies?!?!?!?!" Then one of her even loonier friends started saying that store bought formula shouldn't even be an option and babies are hurt because it is and there is no reason why a woman can't breastfeed, they're just lazy, and if the mom absolutely can't nurse due to something like adoption then she needs to use homemade formula made from raw goats milk, raw whey, fish oil, and a whole host of other things.

In the first place, 81% fat and sugar? What does she think the main components of breast milk are? She further went on to claim that sugar was never needed in the diet. She knows this because she is diabetic.

But really, I had no idea that homemade formula was a thing. Craziness.

 

[ronandannette]

I never said that nursing was to help bonding. You have me mistaken for someone else.

Sincere apologies and when I invited correction, I'm glad you brought it. It was in fact Cheburashka and my question to her would be the same one I mistakenly asked you.

It isn't ridiculous or a "belief". It is a scientific fact that it is the best nutrition, provides the best immunity, the best bonding, etc. It isn't an opinion.

I never said formula was junk food, but it isn't the same quality as breastfeeding.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

On the topic of breastfeeding, when my 1st was a baby I had to pump in my office which was just a cubicle with a door inside a larger office inside a prison. Now if you've ever heard a pump you know it's not quiet. Thankfully I am not shy and have a pretty good sense of humor, bc prison people are full of dark twisted humor lol. So I'd be in my office pumping and there'd be 5-7 male sgts outside in the main part of the office chit chatting and they'd start making jokes about the dairy farm must be running lol More that once one of them would stand on a chair to talk to me over the top of my cubicle wall like it was just no big deal (I was covered, you couldn't see anything). I do not miss those pumping days. But what was the funniest was the one guy who was so grossed out about it. Like the fact that breast milk was in the same fridge as his food was just weird to him. But he had no problem drinking cow milk made for cow babies lol. I used to mess with him a lot. I'd pretend to use it as coffee creamer and talk about how good it made the coffee. Then someone else would ask to try it. He about lost it then. That was a fun job

Id have thought that would make some things a bit awkward lol. Mine was never bothered by the milk itself but sometimes I think he thought it was weird when I'd nurse them in public. He'd never say anything then bc he values his life but now and then he'll make a comment about it. I always made sure I had on a nursing tank under whatever shirt I was wearing so you couldn't see anything, but like I'd wear them in the carrier thingy and they'd nurse while we were walking around the store or whereever we happened to be. I think one time he started to say something and I said look, you never had any problem when I got mardi gras beads so you better not have a problem with this and I must have had "the look" bc henever uttered another word lol

You do understand that not every mother would be comfortable with either of these, right? Or other aspects of breastfeeding?

Edited to reflect that the comfort being referred to is the mother’s, not anyone else’s.

 

[ronandannette]

The kookiest breast vs bottle debate I ever saw was some looney tunes I knew in high school posting a photo of an ingredients label on a can of powdered formula and the caption read "store bought formula is 80% fat and sugar. And we feed this to our babies?!?!?!?!" Then one of her even loonier friends started saying that store bought formula shouldn't even be an option and babies are hurt because it is and there is no reason why a woman can't breastfeed, they're just lazy, and if the mom absolutely can't nurse due to something like adoption then she needs to use homemade formula made from raw goats milk, raw whey, fish oil, and a whole host of other things.

In the first place, 81% fat and sugar? What does she think the main components of breast milk are? She further went on to claim that sugar was never needed in the diet. She knows this because she is diabetic.

But really, I had no idea that homemade formula was a thing. Craziness.

I wish my DMom was still with us to ask, but I was adopted as a newborn in 1966. While commercial formula may have been available by then, it was standard for mothers unable to nurse to feed with a homemade combination of whole goat's milk and other things I'm not aware of. She told me once it was thrilling to my DDad to be able to participate in feedings. They were wonderful parents and if there was an "official" best alternative to breast milk recommended by the doctor, I'm sure that's what they used.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I don't use the stupid bonding excuse. That is a bunch of crock. The "but" that you highlighted has nothing to do with your feeling on being "shamed". It has everything to do with the fact the breast milk is the best food for babies. Are you denying that? Do you believe that formula is an exact replica of breast milk or is it as close as we can get? Because that is all that I am saying. But some keep trying to go back to making it about shaming and guilt for some reason. All of this other stuff about "shaming" is on you. No one can make you feel ashamed when you know that you are doing what is right for yourself and your baby. Listen, I did the best that I could with my kids. My oldest would not latch on and I pumped for almost 4 months until I got pregnant again and my mild dried up. My second nursed up until she turned 3 months and then all of a sudden just refused to nurse anymore so we switched to a bottle. I never shame anyone for using formula and everyone has different issues as to why they can not nurse. There is nothing wrong with getting the information out there that breast milk is by far the best food for a baby, but if you can't, there is nothing wrong with formula. I think that everyone should at least try to nurse or pump off the colostrum for the baby's benefit if they can. We need to stop with accusing people of "shaming" just because they have a different opinion. I never said or implied that anyone is a bad mom for using formula. If you have guilt about it, that is on you and not on anyone else. But I sure as heck feel no guilt about giving my baby formula when I had to. But I can also acknowledge that it is not the same as breast milk.

And yet you continue to double down with this judgment. Using your words, you DO look down on women who made the choice not to bf. Why is it so difficult for you to say women who don’t WANT to as opposed to CAN’T?

I never said that nursing was to help bonding. You have me mistaken for someone else.

You didn’t, but you came on defending what that poster had to say. And that included that it was better for bonding. You didn’t clarify you disagreed with that part.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I wish my DMom was still with us to ask, but I was adopted as a newborn in 1966. While commercial formula may have been available by then, it was standard for mothers unable to nurse to feed with a homemade combination of whole goat's milk and other things I'm not aware of. She told me once it was thrilling to my DDad to be able to participate in feedings. They were wonderful parents and if there was an "official" best alternative to breast milk recommended by the doctor, I'm sure that's what they used.

That is really beautiful, @ronandannette. It reminds me of my own story. We were unable to conceive and I went through several years of some pretty difficult assistive reproduction technologies including painful tests, interventional procedures, lots and lots of SHOTS, and eventually, IVF. At one point my backside was abcessed on both sides, and was swollen, red and painful to even touch. Yet every night, my DH still had to give me a huge shot in that spot. He’d sometimes almost cry and say he’d do anything if he could be the one taking the shots for me. But naturally, he couldn’t.

God was good to us and we were fortunate enough to become pregnant with twins. It wasn’t an easy pregnancy, especially the last few months. It seemed that if there was a problem to be had, I had it, including nearly dying during the delivery from a placenta accreta. I was carrying 15 lbs of babies and I was exhausted, with delivery one day before my 40 week due date. (With five months being like a 9 month pregnancy with multiples.) Again, there wasn’t a lot of the load that DH could help bear.

But guess what? He could absolutely help with feedings! And he could not wait! Nor could my mother, who lived with us, too. I knew what my own limitations were and that I was completely mentally and physically exhausted after all I had gone through to deliver two healthy babies. So I chose to bottle feed, with my care team’s blessings. I am eternally grateful I never had one moment of judgement or attempted persuasion about that choice from anyone.

And boy, did my DH (and my mother) shine. After the birth I was out of it due to a severe hemorrhage, yet I’d occasionally open one eye and see DH with the nurse and a baby learning how to feed them. Or see grandparents doing the same. I could finally relax and heal! DH had to actually teach me when I finally came around. He also had a beautiful routine with the babies where weekly he would take them both out while I slept and they would go to WalMart to get formula, then BJ’s for diapers. He still talks about it to this day. He was 100% hands on and I wouldn’t have had it any other way, because my children really benefitted from being so close with their dad (and grandmother), as well as with me. Their closeness with their Dad continues to this day.

So I guess there was a trade off. They missed out on colostrum, and breast milk, but what they got in return was a relaxed, happy mother, and two other people who adored them, interacting with them all of the time during feedings. Mom absolutely loved feeding them and it was a joy being able to see her doing that. I don’t feel that my children got a bad deal at all. They grew up healthy and happy, and were loved and cared for by three people who made it all work together.

I had a friend who had twins at the same time as me. I give her credit, she tried very hard to feed her babies, even to the point of making some sort of artificial line so that her son could suck, but she was run ragged, and totally stressed out with all that was going on, and finally gave up, but felt like a failure. I felt bad for her. I also knew a lot of other twin moms who breastfed, and I always gave them credit. I just knew it wasn’t for me, and that’s ok.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

That is really beautiful, @ronandannette. It reminds me of my own story. We were unable to conceive and I went through several years of some pretty difficult assistive reproduction technologies including painful tests, interventional procedures, lots and lots of SHOTS, and eventually, IVF. At one point my backside was abcessed on both sides, and was swollen, red and painful to even touch. Yet every night, my DH still had to give me a huge shot in that spot. He’d sometimes almost cry and say he’d do anything if he could be the one taking the shots for me. But naturally, he couldn’t.

God was good to us and we were fortunate enough to become pregnant with twins. It wasn’t an easy pregnancy, especially the last few months. It seemed that if there was a problem to be had, I had it, including nearly dying during the delivery from a placenta accreta. I was carrying 15 lbs of babies and I was exhausted, with delivery one day before my 40 week due date. (With five months being like a 9 month pregnancy with multiples.) Again, there wasn’t a lot of the load that DH could help bear.

But guess what? He could absolutely help with feedings! And he could not wait! Nor could my mother, who lived with us, too. I knew what my own limitations were and that I was completely mentally and physically exhausted after all I had gone through to deliver two healthy babies. So I chose to bottle feed, with my care team’s blessings. I am eternally grateful I never had one moment of judgement or attempted persuasion about that choice from anyone.

And boy, did my DH (and my mother) shine. After the birth I was out of it due to a severe hemorrhage, yet I’d occasionally open one eye and see DH with the nurse and a baby learning how to feed them. Or see grandparents doing the same. I could finally relax and heal! DH had to actually teach me when I finally came around. He also had a beautiful routine with the babies where weekly he would take them both out while I slept and they would go to WalMart to get formula, then BJ’s for diapers. He still talks about it to this day. He was 100% hands on and I wouldn’t have had it any other way, because my children really benefitted from being so close with their dad (and grandmother), as well as with me. Their closeness with their Dad continues to this day.

So I guess there was a trade off. They missed out on colostrum, and breast milk, but what they got in return was a relaxed, happy mother, and two other people who adored them, interacting with them all of the time during feedings. Mom absolutely loved feeding them and it was a joy being able to see her doing that. I don’t feel that my children got a bad deal at all. They grew up healthy and happy, and were loved and cared for by three people who made it all work together.

I had a friend who had twins at the same time as me. I give her credit, she tried very hard to feed her babies, even to the point of making some sort of artificial line so that her son could suck, but she was run ragged, and totally stressed out with all that was going on, and finally gave up, but felt like a failure. I felt bad for her. I also knew a lot of other twin moms who breastfed, and I always gave them credit. I just knew it wasn’t for me, and that’s ok.

Thank for you sharing

————

I nursed my oldest. It was miserable. She wouldn’t latch. Trips to the lactation consultant didn’t help. But we continued to do it. I fell into deep postpartum depression over it and it was her pediatrician who told me “a happy mom is more important than a breastfed baby.” She definitely didn’t get the best mom those first few weeks.

I tried for a short period with my next two and for different reasons it didn’t work with them. But I refused to go down that dark path again and I immediately switched to formula. With my 4th, I didn’t even try. By then, I knew what was best for us and I also know it wouldn’t change her health. (As a matter of fact, my oldest was my most sickly.) My last 3 got the mom they deserved in those early weeks.

And to be clear, I don’t feel guilty for my decisions in how I fed my kids. They are all smart, beautiful humans. What I do resent is the down your throat endless push from the breast is best advocates (that I’m still seeing here) that made me feel like a failure when it didn’t work with my first. THAT is harmful.

 

[Lilsia]

And yet you continue to double down with this judgment. Using your words, you DO look down on women who made the choice not to bf. Why is it so difficult for you to say women who don’t WANT to as opposed to CAN’T?


You didn’t, but you came on defending what that poster had to say. And that included that it was better for bonding. You didn’t clarify you disagreed with that part.

You can believe what you want to, it doesn't matter. But to be clear, I defended certain portions of what the other poster said and have refuted others. But you keep going ahead and keep making things up.

 

[PezRuth]

Thank for you sharing

————

I nursed my oldest. It was miserable. She wouldn’t latch. Trips to the lactation consultant didn’t help. But we continued to do it. I fell into deep postpartum depression over it and it was her pediatrician who told me “a happy mom is more important than a breastfed baby.” She definitely didn’t get the best mom those first few weeks.

I tried for a short period with my next two and for different reasons it didn’t work with them. But I refused to go down that dark path again and I immediately switched to formula. With my 4th, I didn’t even try. By then, I knew what was best for us and I also know it wouldn’t change her health. (As a matter of fact, my oldest was my most sickly.) My last 3 got the mom they deserved in those early weeks.

And to be clear, I don’t feel guilty for my decisions in how I fed my kids. They are all smart, beautiful humans. What I do resent is the down your throat endless push from the breast is best advocates (that I’m still seeing here) that made me feel like a failure when it didn’t work with my first. THAT is harmful.

I agree with every word of this. I tried so hard with mine and they refused. I did not fall into postpartum but surprised I didn't. And my oldest is now 5 and some of these comments on this thread are still triggering.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I agree with every word of this. I tried so hard with mine and they refused. I did not fall into postpartum but surprised I didn't. And my oldest is now 5 and some of these comments on this thread are still triggering.

 

[LovesTimone]

What is free range parenting.... ??? my friend said that her Son and wife were going to free range parent....

All I can think about is free range chickens... pecking and running around all over...

 

[mjkacmom]

What is free range parenting.... ??? my friend said that her Son and wife were going to free range parent....

All I can think about is free range chickens... pecking and running around all over...

It’s pretty much how kids were parented before 1990.

 

[DisneyHardin]

That is really beautiful, @ronandannette. It reminds me of my own story. We were unable to conceive and I went through several years of some pretty difficult assistive reproduction technologies including painful tests, interventional procedures, lots and lots of SHOTS, and eventually, IVF. At one point my backside was abcessed on both sides, and was swollen, red and painful to even touch. Yet every night, my DH still had to give me a huge shot in that spot. He’d sometimes almost cry and say he’d do anything if he could be the one taking the shots for me. But naturally, he couldn’t.

God was good to us and we were fortunate enough to become pregnant with twins. It wasn’t an easy pregnancy, especially the last few months. It seemed that if there was a problem to be had, I had it, including nearly dying during the delivery from a placenta accreta. I was carrying 15 lbs of babies and I was exhausted, with delivery one day before my 40 week due date. (With five months being like a 9 month pregnancy with multiples.) Again, there wasn’t a lot of the load that DH could help bear.

But guess what? He could absolutely help with feedings! And he could not wait! Nor could my mother, who lived with us, too. I knew what my own limitations were and that I was completely mentally and physically exhausted after all I had gone through to deliver two healthy babies. So I chose to bottle feed, with my care team’s blessings. I am eternally grateful I never had one moment of judgement or attempted persuasion about that choice from anyone.

And boy, did my DH (and my mother) shine. After the birth I was out of it due to a severe hemorrhage, yet I’d occasionally open one eye and see DH with the nurse and a baby learning how to feed them. Or see grandparents doing the same. I could finally relax and heal! DH had to actually teach me when I finally came around. He also had a beautiful routine with the babies where weekly he would take them both out while I slept and they would go to WalMart to get formula, then BJ’s for diapers. He still talks about it to this day. He was 100% hands on and I wouldn’t have had it any other way, because my children really benefitted from being so close with their dad (and grandmother), as well as with me. Their closeness with their Dad continues to this day.

So I guess there was a trade off. They missed out on colostrum, and breast milk, but what they got in return was a relaxed, happy mother, and two other people who adored them, interacting with them all of the time during feedings. Mom absolutely loved feeding them and it was a joy being able to see her doing that. I don’t feel that my children got a bad deal at all. They grew up healthy and happy, and were loved and cared for by three people who made it all work together.

I had a friend who had twins at the same time as me. I give her credit, she tried very hard to feed her babies, even to the point of making some sort of artificial line so that her son could suck, but she was run ragged, and totally stressed out with all that was going on, and finally gave up, but felt like a failure. I felt bad for her. I also knew a lot of other twin moms who breastfed, and I always gave them credit. I just knew it wasn’t for me, and that’s ok.

What a beautiful story. Thanks so much for sharing. My sister had twins in June and she had visions of tandem nursing the babies. That went out the window really fast - they babies just weren't not interested in nursing at all. She does pump, but when they were really little, they weren't gaining weight fast enough and the doctor thought her milk just wasn't caloric enough for them, so he had her mix powdered formula into the breastmilk bottles to up the calories. They are 7 months old now and I think she still pumps a couple times a day, but most of their bottles now are formula. Like your story - as a mom with twins, she doesn't know how she could have even begun to handle the time it would have taken to nurse two babies; with bottles, her husband and our Mom can help with the feedings.

 

[dez1978]

You do understand that not everyone would be comfortable with either of these, right? Or other aspects of breastfeeding?

Yeah... If you read any of the following posts I made I clearly talked about that and how everyone has their own level of what they are comfortable with. I was speaking about what I did not what others should do. And I also clearly said no one should be shamed about how they choose to feed their babies.

And I really don't care if anyone else was comfortable with how I did it if thats what you are referring to.

 

[LovesTimone]

It’s pretty much how kids were parented before 1990.

I am a child of the 60's, 70's and 80's...

As a kid we were taught how to behave, learn responsibility, respect for ourselves and others,
Household chores, team work.
Stand up for ourselves, be kind.
Be appreciative for what you have
Prayer, Family first,
No person is perfect...
How to play, use your imagination, share, play with others, work as a team.
If you want something you have to earn it so work ethics,
Not everyone gets a trophy if you want to be the best you have to work at it,
Be polite and respectful of others, always use your manners,
Base your friendship on how people treat you, not on the color of their skin or religion, or sexual choice.
If you act up or misbehave there were/are consequences for your actions.