No the Magic isn’t gone but it’s at 25%

[Aluminum Falcon]

Disagree. If they are on the level as Dumbo or Buzz Lightyear it would add capacity to the parks but wouldn't be a huge draw that adds that many more visitors. IMO Disney needs to be more like the regional parks in adding new attractions yearly.

What I’m saying is that if Disney adds more rides, they will raise the total capacity with it.
More rides means more people allowed through the gates

 

[Jennasis]

What I’m saying is that if Disney adds more rides, they will raise the total capacity with it.
More rides means more people allowed through the gates

That's my argument when people demand a 5th gate. Another gate won't spread out crowds, it will just increase overall attendance (but I would still love another park LOL!)

 

[Jrb1979]

What I’m saying is that if Disney adds more rides, they will raise the total capacity with it.
More rides means more people allowed through the gates

Yes but at the same time DHS, AK and Epcot lack capacity. Those parks need more attractions and meet and greets don't count.

IMO their biggest problem is the need for every new attraction to have an IP attached, be marketable and something for the whole family. The reason I put it in for the whole family is from reading different threads here, the majority of Disney guests aren't ride people.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Yes but at the same time DHS, AK and Epcot lack capacity. Those parks need more attractions and meet and greets don't count.

IMO their biggest problem is the need for every new attraction to have an IP attached, be marketable and something for the whole family. The reason I put it in for the whole family is from reading different threads here, the majority of Disney guests aren't ride people.

I wouldn’t argue against more attractions at those parks, but MK is just as busy with waits. If Disney opened more attractions and kept crowd capacity where it is I’d be with you, but that wouldn’t be the reality, and we’d be right back where we are currently or worse

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

That's my argument when people demand a 5th gate. Another gate won't spread out crowds, it will just increase overall attendance (but I would still love another park LOL!)

I’m with you on all of that haha

 

[Jrb1979]

I wouldn’t argue against more attractions at those parks, but MK is just as busy with waits. If Disney opened more attractions and kept crowd capacity where it is I’d be with you, but that wouldn’t be the reality, and we’d be right back where we are currently or worse

With that thinking I really hope Epic Universe is a major success and puts a dent in Disney attendance. My hope is with the new park that people will start doing week long vacations at Universal with added days at Disney

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

With that thinking I really hope Epic Universe is a major success and puts a dent in Disney attendance. My hope is with the new park that people will start doing week long vacations at Universal with added days at Disney

In my mind, if EU is successful it may drive up crowds at Disney, because try as they might, universal is still not, and still won’t be after EU a full week vacation. So even if they do draw more people, they will probably end up split staying in the area. I’m really not trying to sound like a Disney bobo, but I believe when HP opened at universal, Disney had a bump in attendance at that time

 

[Smugpugmug]

In my mind, if EU is successful it may drive up crowds at Disney, because try as they might, universal is still not, and still won’t be after EU a full week vacation. So even if they do draw more people, they will probably end up split staying in the area. I’m really not trying to sound like a Disney bobo, but I believe when HP opened at universal, Disney had a bump in attendance at that time

Attendance in both WDW and Disneyland decreased when the Wizarding World areas in Orlando and Hollywood opened but not by a drastic amount (less than 2% drop). I am super curious to see what happens when Epic Universe opens but I am not expecting WDW's attendance to plummet.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/bus...rsal-orlando-market-share-20140419-story.html
https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-universal-attendance-20170601-story.html

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In my mind, if EU is successful it may drive up crowds at Disney, because try as they might, universal is still not, and still won’t be after EU a full week vacation. So even if they do draw more people, they will probably end up split staying in the area. I’m really not trying to sound like a Disney bobo, but I believe when HP opened at universal, Disney had a bump in attendance at that time

That I think would depend on what investment Disney will have by that point as well as the type of guests.

Epic Universe is going to draw people in that will cater to a different clientele much like Star Wars was intended to be at Disney (although I'm not quite certain that was as successful as we all thought) with having Monsters, having Nintendo, rumored addition to Harry Potter, etc. It's going to draw in people that may or may not also be Disney people.

We'd still split time but we'll have to give more days overall to Universal, likely the same days at WDW still so no additional days at WDW.

Harry Potter drew people to Universal that ordinarily weren't really looking at those parks. The only thing Disney has that is akin to that is Star Wars otherwise it's just rides here and there that already Disney people would go to the parks for.

So it's going to depend. Plus how will the reservation system and Genie+ shake up into it as time goes on. If people view Disney as a hassle to try and arrange park days and Universal at that time still doesn't have reservation system in place well that might hurt Disney and that was not a factor before.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Attendance in both WDW and Disneyland decreased when the Wizarding World areas in Orlando and Hollywood opened but not by a drastic amount (less than 2% drop). I am super curious to see what happens when Epic Universe opens but I am not expecting WDW's attendance to plummet.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/bus...rsal-orlando-market-share-20140419-story.html
https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-universal-attendance-20170601-story.html

I don’t have the article that I read about this, but I believe Disneys attendance (I’m speaking for WDW, I don’t pay close enough attention to DL) stayed right around the same when HP opened, and then went on to see a boost in attendance the 3rd and 4th quarter after HP opened. Universal is also a far cry from WDW’s annual attendance (I believe the MK alone does double the attendance all of Universal does), and I doubt EU cuts into that all that much, I think it will be the same story over again

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I doubt EU cuts into that all that much, I think it will be the same story over again

Usually the goal isn't to try and chase WDW's attendance numbers, I don't even think Universal wants that because it would negatively impact their parks. The goal is usually just to gain on the market share thus reducing Disney's hold on it. It's one of the reasons it's tiring people keep bringing up how much WDW's attendance numbers are compared to Universal as if Universal is trying to overtake them.

A random example but at my home airport SWA has over 43% of the market share in 2021 (and has been roughly that give or take a few percentage points up or down for years). American Airlines is next...at..18.2%. AA is not in anyway going to gain that much on SWA. But IF AA wanted more they wouldn't try and overtake SWA, they would just try and remove some of that market share away from SWA.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

That I think would depend on what investment Disney will have by that point as well as the type of guests.

Epic Universe is going to draw people in that will cater to a different clientele much like Star Wars was intended to be at Disney (although I'm not quite certain that was as successful as we all thought) with having Monsters, having Nintendo, rumored addition to Harry Potter, etc. It's going to draw in people that may or may not also be Disney people.

We'd still split time but we'll have to give more days overall to Universal, likely the same days at WDW still so no additional days at WDW.

Harry Potter drew people to Universal that ordinarily weren't really looking at those parks. The only thing Disney has that is akin to that is Star Wars otherwise it's just rides here and there that already Disney people would go to the parks for.

So it's going to depend. Plus how will the reservation system and Genie+ shake up into it as time goes on. If people view Disney as a hassle to try and arrange park days and Universal at that time still doesn't have reservation system in place well that might hurt Disney and that was not a factor before.

The amount of “disney people” far outweighs the Universal people so far. I mean it’s not really close when you look at the numbers. Here’s where I see the real problem, people may do more split stays now that’s fair, but I don’t think universal would be having families cancel their Disney trips for universal trips. I would like it if they did, but the numbers just aren’t there, Universal just isn’t the behemoth that Disney is (whether or not you believe they should be considered one)

 

[Smugpugmug]

Usually the goal isn't to try and chase WDW's attendance numbers, I don't even think Universal wants that because it would negatively impact their parks. The goal is usually just to gain on the market share thus reducing Disney's hold on it. It's one of the reasons it's tiring people keep bringing up how much WDW's attendance numbers are compared to Universal as if Universal is trying to overtake them.

Definitely agree about the market share part. The article that I posted above from Orlando Sentinel states that after Wizarding World opened in Orlando, WDW lost a percentage of it's theme park market share and Universal gained some. I don't think Universal is trying to overtake Disney at all - Universal is trying to appeal to the teen + adult crowd whereas Disney is targeting families. Personally I wouldn't be a fan of Universal changing to where it appealed too much to families with small kids and I bet a lot of fans would feel the same.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Usually the goal isn't to try and chase WDW's attendance numbers, I don't even think Universal wants that because it would negatively impact their parks. The goal is usually just to gain on the market share thus reducing Disney's hold on it. It's one of the reasons it's tiring people keep bringing up how much WDW's attendance numbers are compared to Universal as if Universal is trying to overtake them.

A random example but at my home airport SWA has over 43% of the market share in 2021 (and has been roughly that give or take a few percentage points up or down for years). American Airlines is next...at..18.2%. AA is not in anyway going to gain that much on SWA. But IF AA wanted more they wouldn't try and overtake SWA, they would just try and remove some of that market share away from SWA.

That statement doesn’t make a lot of sense, the primary goal of any theme park is to make more money, the more visitors the more money. Also the more visitors the more popular your park is, the more value is seen by your customers, ect. So respectfully that line doesn’t add up. I’m not saying that Universal wouldn’t try to eat up some market share either, that would be the correct maneuver, but to say that Disneys attendance may “plummet” is a bridge too far. Also to this point Universal hasn’t taken away from Disneys attendance, so every bit of the conversation about EU taking a bite out of Disney is pure conjecture without a bit of evidence pointing to that happening, it’s really the opposite based on past and current numbers

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The amount of “disney people” far outweighs the Universal people so far. I mean it’s not really close when you look at the numbers. Here’s where I see the real problem, people may do more split stays now that’s fair, but I don’t think universal would be having families cancel their Disney trips for universal trips. I would like it if they did, but the numbers just aren’t there, Universal just isn’t the behemoth that Disney is (whether or not you believe they should be considered one)

You're still thinking about it like what I'm trying to explain isn't.

If you're the type of person who goes to both you're unlikely to cut one out. But if you're the person going to Universal because they have a brand new theme park with themes you really like, much like HP, you're going to come to Universal without necessarily going to Disney. Much like people thought Star Wars would be for Disney and as which I'm not sure it was quite as successful as we all thought it would be drawing in people who love Star Wars and just would do Disney for Star Wars (meaning visiting DHS primarily and maybe some of the other parks).

As far as behemoth..I think you're missing the point..no one not a dang person has tried to say Universal is as big as Disney. For whatever reason it's only certain types of people who keep trying to make that argument when no one actually is.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Definitely agree about the market share part. The article that I posted above from Orlando Sentinel states that after Wizarding World opened in Orlando, WDW lost a percentage of it's theme park market share and Universal gained some. I don't think Universal is trying to overtake Disney at all - Universal is trying to appeal to the teen + adult crowd whereas Disney is targeting families. Personally I wouldn't be a fan of Universal changing to where it appealed too much to families with small kids and I bet a lot of fans would feel the same.

The article above talks about how Disney had dipped 2% during that time, and Universals was up 38% at the time I believe, that is not a large enoug drop on Disneys end to definitely say that it was caused directly from Universal. On top of that Disneys attendance numbers went on an upward ascent after that article.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

You're still thinking about it like what I'm trying to explain isn't.

If you're the type of person who goes to both you're unlikely to cut one out. But if you're the person going to Universal because they have a brand new theme park with themes you really like, much like HP, you're going to come to Universal without necessarily going to Disney. Much like people thought Star Wars would be for Disney and as which I'm not sure it was quite as successful as we all thought it would be drawing in people who love Star Wars and just would do Disney for Star Wars (meaning visiting DHS primarily and maybe some of the other parks).

As far as behemoth..I think you're missing the point..no one not a dang person has tried to say Universal is as big as Disney. For whatever reason it's only certain types of people who keep trying to make that argument when no one actually is.

I’m not saying EU won’t be a success on its own merits, I’m sure it will be.

I’m not singling you out here, there is just a lot of conjecture that EU will dramatically hit Disneys bottom line, and there is not a shred of evidence to date that points in that direction is all I’m trying to say

Star Wars has definitely held its own, especially with the star cruiser hotel, there’s always room to add on, and Universal did much the same when HP started to fade, referring to when they expanded onto it. That being said I think a lot of people saw 5th gate demand for Galaxies Edge, but Disney seemed to have sniped that out a while before and made it into a condensed land

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That statement doesn’t make a lot of sense, the primary goal of any theme park is to make more money, the more visitors the more money. Also the more visitors the more popular your park is, the more value is seen by your customers, ect. So respectfully that line doesn’t add up. I’m not saying that Universal wouldn’t try to eat up some market share either, that would be the correct maneuver, but to say that Disneys attendance may “plummet” is a bridge too far. Also to this point Universal hasn’t taken away from Disneys attendance, so every bit of the conversation about EU taking a bite out of Disney is pure conjecture without a bit of evidence pointing to that happening, it’s really the opposite based on past and current numbers

The reason I said that is because of things like crowding and hotel space and food options, etc. It doesn't really jive to me that they would want 21 million people to attend IOA like MK had in 2019. Universal has HHN that is an incredibly successful time period in their year as well.

I didn't say plummet either, I didn't even respond to that comment. I don't know what the attendance numbers will shake out to be. But I do know the conditions that were there back in 2010 are not there now. It's a different world we live in. And with Disney having these projects that are either slow like molasses or will be forgotten in terms of shiny new thing by the time Epic Universe opens, that was the investment part I was speaking to. Plus the park reservation system.

As far as Universal hasn't taken away I thought it was mentioned in this thread that was speaking about the attendance numbers and it reflects Universal had more than a few of Disney's parks? for the year 2021 I think or 2020? It's been a while can't remember

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

The reason I said that is because of things like crowding and hotel space and food options, etc. It doesn't really jive to me that they would want 21 million people to attend IOA like MK had in 2019. Universal has HHN that is an incredibly successful time period in their year as well.

That comes off as a personal wishlist kind of thing, if Universal could get 21 million a year at the gate, they would jump at the opportunity, no business turns away customers unless they can’t handle the demand, and I believe they could. It would be more congested, and wait times would definitely be up, but it would also mean they were a huge success

I didn't say plummet either, I didn't even respond to that comment. I don't know what the attendance numbers will shake out to be. But I do know the conditions that were there back in 2010 are not there now. It's a different world we live in. And with Disney having these projects that are either slow like molasses or will be forgotten in terms of shiny new thing by the time Epic Universe opens, that was the investment part I was speaking to. Plus the park reservation system.

I apologize I think I responding to you like a group when I should have addressed your comment directly. I wouldn’t sleep on Disney either, they always react when a competitor does something new

As far as Universal hasn't taken away I thought it was mentioned in this thread that was speaking about the attendance numbers and it reflects Universal had more than a few of Disney's parks? for the year 2021 I think or 2020? It's been a while can't remember

2020-2021 are hard to asses there were too many x-factors that companies couldn’t control, or had a hard time wrapping their arms around, pertaining to the pandemic to really get anything concrete out of them. This year should be a better indicator in my mind

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Star Wars has definitely held its own

Yeah but it hasn't appeared to grab a hold of the star wars people who didn't already go to Disney as much as it was thought to be.

I don't know if you were a lurker before joining the DIS but I remember a lot of the conversations when Star Wars was announced and over the years here when it was being built thinking this is it, this is going to be amazing and bring so many big star wars fans to Disney and it's going to be a new Disney y'all.

Yes sure it did but it opened with 1 ride and quickly got rid of some of its immersive features. I got to experience it out in CA in 2019 about 4 months after it had been opened and I heard from a lot of locals there they just were not impressed and this seemed to track at WDW. Rise is what really got people's attention although I didn't get to experience that ride until 2 1/2 years later at WDW). I really haven't heard of Star Wars people saying they'll go buy DHS just for Star Wars and that's all they are wanting to see, that was originally what many of us thought would be the case.

Star Wars is a great addition to Disney but I don't think it held as much wow factor as Universal's HP area did. The sheer amount of people who are willing to buy Universal tickets just for those two parts (and smart decision by Universal to use 2 parks for this.

especially with the star cruiser hotel

I thought the consensus was this was def. not as successful as it was thought to be?