Scathing report from Frommer's on Genie+/LL

[DizMe]

Disney's Lightning Lane scam
Frommer's opinion: "Standby got slow because of Lightning Lane—the "cure" causes the disease."

Much of the article seems to reference WDW more than DLR, but both are included.

What do you think?

 

[TinkAgainU]

Disney's Lightning Lane scam
Frommer's opinion: "Standby got slow because of Lightning Lane—the "cure" causes the disease."

Much of the article seems to reference WDW more than DLR, but both are included.

What do you think?

Do you think it's too late to bring back the ticket books with ETicket etc rides lol? I usually like G+ (proficient with it) but that said, there have been times when it was a waste of money - at most got two rides with it. Rope Drop beats G+ by a mile.

 

[foolish_mortals]

It’s true and pretty obvious.

Why is Indiana Jones a 90 minute wait when there are maybe 100 people in the outside standby queue? Pirates now has a higher average standby wait now that it’s been temporarily added to Genie+.

Lightening Lane is now the de facto “main queue”. You still have to wait, sometimes 10 - 30 minutes. Unless you get up early or stay out late, or try to time it by waiting for a breakdown, standby is going to be close to an hour.

Spend money to save time or spend time to save money? Most people don’t have that much vacation time and in the grand scheme of Disney costs, most will pay out for it at least once on their vacation.

 

[PaladinButters]

Well - two things.

1. When somebody comes out yelling against Disney that hard in a piece it's really hard to focus on any points they are actually trying to make in between the noise.

2. I know. Somebody is about to mention the Defunctland video any moment here.
Overall the standby lines would be shorter for everybody without fast lanes. But I'm not in the standby line. Call me when the standby lines all somehow would magically get shorter for me personally than the breeze on by lightning lines and we'll talk about not buying into it.

 

[jimmymc]

It's less of a scam and more of a tiered experience. In the past, almost everyone was in the same tier of day guest. The only upgrade was a VIP tour, which is so expensive that very few people are in it. They you had Max Pass for a while, which gave a small advantage, but you were still pretty close to the day guest tier. Genie+ introduced a true third tier that's cheap enough for a large portion of the park to be in. You can pay more to get on a few extra rides during your day. It can seem bad if you love attractions and aren't using it, but the cost is low enough that most people in the park could afford it.

I think the article does a poor job of making its argument. A lot of the complaints are caused by crowds, not Lightning Lanes. If both the LL and standby line are out the door, that's just high crowds. As for watching 80 people go by, before letting the regular queue go, that's also how Fastpass worked. Disney is now giving you the option to pay a bit less but still get into the park. The alternative is they raise the prices on everyone and go back to included Fastpasses, which would be nice for people who can pay, but would also price out a group.

 

[TinkAgainU]

I know. Somebody is about to mention the Defunctland video any moment here.
Overall the standby lines would be shorter for everybody without fast lanes.

I had never seen this! Awesome history of the lines at Disney! Thanks

 

[MonocularVision]

Genie+ is price discrimination in action. Companies are always looking for a way to take more money from people willing to give it. At Disneyland, I think the system works well because of the large number of locals and passholders. It gives people visiting from out of town, like myself, the ability to pay more for a better experience. By not providing an option for an unlimited add-on to MKers, I think Disneyland finally “fixed” MaxPass/FP. The amount of time I wait in a LL is far less than what I used to with FP/MP.

If they were to completely get rid of the system, I would spend more time in lines and get on fewer rides on our visits than I do now. So personally, it is why I appreciate the system.

Note: it sounds like the whole system is far less workable at WDW. I think it’s because of the attendance makeup. Far more out of towners and people willing to spend more for an upgraded experience.

 

[jimmymc]

The Defunctland video actually brings up a great point about "negative wait times" that is a big reason I support some form of skip the line system. If everyone is in line for the E-ticket rides, and something like Hall of Presidents or Little Mermaid is a walk on, not even filling every seat, then you are effectively reducing the total ride capacity of the park. By using a Fastpass system, it makes going on those rides during off-peak hours more attractive, which increases the total number of rides by guests across the park. You can argue about whether people should need to pay or not, but allowing people to reserve times on bigger rides for the middle of the day helps everyone get on more total rides.

 

[Pluto468]

"Even after paying that $30 per person for Genie+, most guests are still only likely to use Lightning Lane 2 or 3 times over the course of the whole day—and that's using Disney's own estimate, which is buried in the fine print! That breaks down to about $10 per ride." Do you think this is true? That some people only use LL 2-3 times a day? We always use multiple Lightening Lanes. I can see being even more vexed by the whole system if you only get a couple of short lines out of it.

"Disney's parks weren't always this overcrowded. Just look at this aerial footage of EPCOT shot in the 1980s. There was plenty of elbow room; the experience looks pleasant and dignified. At the time this film was shot, EPCOT was one of the most famous theme parks in the world. Yet it still wasn't overstuffed."
The parks are definitely busy, but I don't think the best time for crowds was the 80s. Maybe this is just about WDW? When I was an AP we went twice a week to Disneyland, and the only times the crowds felt overwhelming was trying to leave the park after fireworks. I mean, of course there were some busy days, but it generally wasn't insane. One of our best trips ever, crowd wise, was 2019.

"If everyone abandoned Lightning Lane, then the Standby line would move faster than anything else.
Until then, Disney guests are pouring funds into the company's pockets for something they should—and did—have for free."
I think this sums up most people's problem with Genie+. It's expensive and confusing and we're all paying for something that used to be free- Fastpass. I can't see people abandoning LL now, though.

I haven't been in lines when 100 LL people were let through vs 15 or so standby. How common is that? Is it typical, or the worst case scenario?

 

[Smugpugmug]

I haven't been in lines when 100 LL people were let through vs 15 or so standby. How common is that? Is it typical, or the worst case scenario?

It happens a lot at WDW. I don't know about DL since I haven't visited since 2019.

 

[Brian rhymes with dyin]

I'm from out of town and appreciate being able to pay a significant amount more to use the lightning lanes. My understanding was that Disneyland has a lot more APs who visit the parks to hang out and ride a few rides and then go home; the pricing of Genie+ would be unattractive to this behavior whereas I'm happy to pay more to get more done in my limited time. The first come, first served aspect of Genie+ in California seems to work so much better than the WDW version.

 

[DontSpamMe]

It's a cheap cash grab by Disney. Nothing more.

It's not going away either since the parks branch of the Disney company is making enough money to carry the rest of the company.

 

[Mle8308]

Genie+ is a very different experience at DL than at WDW. It is entirely possible at WDW that you may only be able to use G+ for 2-3 rides depending on crowds and if park hopping or not. Last week it sold out a few times before off property guests even had the option to purchase it (I think twice). Unfortunately, some of the issues are poorly trained CM's who don't manage the ratio of G+ to standby very well. And sometimes I don't blame them with the way they are treated by some guests. I'm not a fan, though I have purchased it at both DL and WDW, DL was a much better value (I was there in busy October).

 

[Genie+]

Note: it sounds like the whole system is far less workable at WDW

The biggest issue at WDW is EP and AK - not enough attractions to support the G+ system.

Epcot only has 4 rides that people want/need - Frozen, Ratt, Test Track and Soarin’*.

AK only has 4 - Ex Everest, Navi, Safari and Dino*. They offer Genie+ slots for shows there even though there IS ONLY ONE LINE. G+ people get in line on standby so they actually just paid and rearranged their schedule to use G+ somewhere it’s not even honored, does zero for them.

DCA, DL, MK and HS all have a better number of worthwhile G+ uses.

HS has RnRC (refurb), ToT, MMRR, TSMM, SDD, MF, StarTours*

MK has Sp MTN, TMRR, Pirates, JC, HM, PP, SW and more… This park by far has the best G+ selection at WDW and is most akin to DL/DCA.


*StarTours - it could be said G+ isn’t good use here since often adjusting time of entry is enough to avoid long line, but the same can be said for Dino and Soarin’.

 

[Lumpy1106]

My thoughts on this are well known here so I will just say this; you cannot artificially shorten the wait for one person without really making the line longer for someone else. G+ works better at DL/DCA because there are more rides and there is a smaller percentage of people in the park using it than at WDW. We are really hoping that G+ goes away before we make another WDW trip, and are seriously considering staying at a DVC resort and driving to the Universal parks when we do - we hate G+ that much.

 

[LKing]

I haven't been in lines when 100 LL people were let through vs 15 or so standby. How common is that? Is it typical, or the worst case scenario?

It depends on the CM that are working the rides on any given day. Last year on a scorching hot day, the wait time for HM was listed as 45 minutes. We got in the standby line and it was well over 2 hours. It was too hot for me to stand in the sun (not moving) for that long, so I was allowed to sit in the shade by the entrance while my spouse waited in line.

While sitting by the entrance for two hours, I was able to see what was happening. The CM at the entrance said that the LL people were not supposed to stop moving. As long as there were LL people entering, the standby line didn't move. There was also a group of people walking in the exit with a paper indicating that they had some sort of special need. With both of those lines entering with priority over standby, the wait time was over double what was posted.

A couple of weeks ago we were on Guardians and one CM working the lines had a similar philosophy. LL filed in and then a handful of standby were allowed on. When there was a turn over of CM, the flow was much more efficient. Waive LL in until there is a natural break. Allow 10-20 standby and then start waiving LL back in again.

 

[Mle8308]

My thoughts on this are well known here so I will just say this; you cannot artificially shorten the wait for one person without really making the line longer for someone else. G+ works better at DL/DCA because there are more rides and there is a smaller percentage of people in the park using it than at WDW. We are really hoping that G+ goes away before we make another WDW trip, and are seriously considering staying at a DVC resort and driving to the Universal parks when we do - we hate G+ that much.

Agree! It killed me to buy it at WDW. DL wasn't as big of an issue because I knew I'd get more use and value from it, for the reasons you state above.

 

[LKing]

My understanding was that Disneyland has a lot more APs who visit the parks to hang out and ride a few rides and then go home; the pricing of Genie+ would be unattractive to this behavior whereas I'm happy to pay more to get more done in my limited time.

Yep, last weekend we went to the parks to see the artists that were signing in Disneyana. We wanted to try a seasonal food menu at a restaurant that wasn't open until 11. We walked the circumference of the park to get our steps in, rode Columbia, road the train around the park, got our food and were out of the park by noon.

 

[Mle8308]

It depends on the CM that are working the rides on any given day. Last year on a scorching hot day, the wait time for HM was listed as 45 minutes. We got in the standby line and it was well over 2 hours. It was too hot for me to stand in the sun (not moving) for that long, so I was allowed to sit in the shade by the entrance while my spouse waited in line.

While sitting by the entrance for two hours, I was able to see what was happening. The CM at the entrance said that the LL people were not supposed to stop moving. As long as there were LL people entering, the standby line didn't move. There was also a group of people walking in the exit with a paper indicating that they had some sort of special need. With both of those lines entering with priority over standby, the wait time was over double what was posted.

A couple of weeks ago we were on Guardians and one CM working the lines had a similar philosophy. LL filed in and then a handful of standby were allowed on. When there was a turn over of CM, the flow was much more efficient. Waive LL in until there is a natural break. Allow 20-30 standby and then start waiving LL back in again.

Yes! They are supposed to manage the ratio, not never stop the G+ line. It's supposed to be roughly 80/20, but like I said in a previous post, not all CM's are properly trained or they disregard their training because it's easier.

 

[JerrodDragon89]

Universal has had a 100+ skip the line tickets since FF came out

I man not like Disneyland system but would take it ANYDAY over what Universal does....those lines are still huge and you have to pay 100 extra bucks a ticket to skip them

So at USH its like 220+ depending on the day for one person with Skip the Line at Disneyland one park at max like 180, for a family of 4 it saves a lot of money

Can't speak about WDW since I have not gone in years but at DisneylandI rather pay 30 bucks then 100 bucks...because less people wont use it, the lines for rides will not go down Disney will find a way to make it where no matter what they charge lines stay what they want them at