2020 Point Charts

They are duty bound to re allocate points to balance demand.
Now, given 1 beds are ALWAYS last to go in any category, how is generally increasing the price of them balancing demand?
The sceptic in me says this is to price up the two most popular categories, so people buy more points. Note when I say most popular I mean more studios and 1 beds overall are booked because there are more of them, although the highest demand is studio, then 2 bed compared to number of units available in each category.
 
14 more points for our week in a 1 bedroom standard view over Halloween at BLT we do every year.

Uuuuuuuuugh. Technically we are now 4 points short every year.
 
BWV is difficult to determine because the points needed for a 2BR is not the same as 1 studio + 1 1BR. And EVERY 2BR is a lock-off, so it could be booked either way.

I've always been a bit leery of the habit of Studio + 1BR > 2BR when the former is exactly the same as the latter in terms of room use. I had always assumed that DVD sold points assuming 2BR use (the smaller number). Otherwise, if they sold points assuming everyone books 1br and studios, but everyone books 2BR, they would run out of rooms and there would be points that could not be used (Surely DVC would be happy to sell the higher point number, but I would hope such a situation is illegal.) Now we are seeing the potential for abuse of this disparity. It opens the door for DVC to charge whatever they want for studios and 1br*. The 'total points' rule only restricts what they can charge for 2BR. In other words, as long as the point cost for 2BR stays 'legal' what they charge for 1BR and studios can go higher. They already overcharge for 1BR and studio with respect to 2br. Now they are just doing that MORE.

* There is a practical limit to what they can do because if they charged as much for a studio as for a 2BR, everyone would just book 2BR, but that is a pretty terrible ceiling for owners.

I'm a bit surprised DVC wants to take this tactic. I had thought Disney was playing the long game and was smart with the limited time on contracts so keeping things nice would set them up to resell in 2042. But now I would say buyer beware. DVC is killing the golden goose.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Corporate is only concerned with TODAY's bottom line. Execs don't care about 2040 and beyond -- they would rather cash in now and forget about the future.
 


If its to balance demand, what also doesn’t make sense is they have not attempted to adjust the seasons. It’s well know the last 3 or 4 months of the year have become “prime time” and not just DVC. I would think they would at least move it to dream season. I’ve had no trouble getting a room at 7 months in June or July and that’s Magic Season, 2nd highest. All I can think of is it would create chaos with large point jumps for that time.
 
Wouldn't it have been the ideal opportunity to announce this change and explain it at last week's members' meeting? Ha ha.
Jokers, it's a cash grab.

Ha, they don’t want any bad news. I’ve been to 3 or 4 annual meetings (because I was already there) and they are no more than publicity events. They allow questions, but they are mostly softballs. Inevitably, someone will go to the mic and gush about how wonderful DVC is. Even if a harder question is asked, they give a pat answer and move on.
 
My usual 12 nights stay (in adventure season) has gone up about 12 points. I can live with it, but the more I think about it and the more I'm convinced it's just the first step because every year they cannot reallocate more than 15%.
 


As I say the condo declarations make them balance demand. So in many ways I can see why studios should go up, but not 1 beds with 6 points difference in some cases between 1 and 2 beds.
 
14 more points for our week in a 1 bedroom standard view over Halloween at BLT we do every year.

Uuuuuuuuugh. Technically we are now 4 points short every year.

Exactly and I bet your 1 bed is the last to book. So how is this balancing demand, I’d love DVC to have explained this because at the moment all I can do is carry out my own assessment. Why not explained at the member’s meeting.
This year’s members’ meeting was the thinnest I’ve seen in terms of info. Not a patch on last year’s.
I suppose Ken’s shown, if you can make sales crack, it’s a great stepping stone to better things, but I feel Ken at least tried to have some good PR with the members.
 
I think because the studios and 1 bedrooms sleep the same amount of people (generally speaking), you have to increase both together. If you want a kitchen, you'll still have to pay the premium for it.

Meanwhile, since the two bedrooms and up sleep more people, that will encourage larger groups to travel and therefore more $$$ in Disney's pocket in the longhaul.
 
If its to balance demand, what also doesn’t make sense is they have not attempted to adjust the seasons. It’s well know the last 3 or 4 months of the year have become “prime time” and not just DVC. I would think they would at least move it to dream season. I’ve had no trouble getting a room at 7 months in June or July and that’s Magic Season, 2nd highest. All I can think of is it would create chaos with large point jumps for that time.

I really wish they would do this as well. But, with my luck, they'll do it just as I'm able to travel during Adventure or Choice season more consistently.
 
I think because the studios and 1 bedrooms sleep the same amount of people (generally speaking), you have to increase both together. If you want a kitchen, you'll still have to pay the premium for it.

Meanwhile, since the two bedrooms and up sleep more people, that will encourage larger groups to travel and therefore more $$$ in Disney's pocket in the longhaul.

Good point - but the rooms all book up anyway, 2 beds are not sat there empty. We are dealing more with demand- which is generally reflected in how quickly they book up. So if they were genuinely adjusting to manage demand surely they would:

1. Reduce the price of 1 beds which are normally the last rooms to go. Putting them up and reducing 2 beds seems to make no sense given 2 beds go much quicker than 1 beds. As I say, the only reason I see is more people need 1 beds than 2 beds, and there are more of them, and thus if people want these, they need to acquire more points. Now I appreciate I may be sceptical and wrong, but in absence of any explanation, particularly given only days ago there was a member’s meeting, I can only come to my own conclusion based on my logic.
2. Increase the points requirements Oct- Dec and reduce other times. Not done.

So let us say I am confused with this, it’s very strange, particularly the radio silence last week. If it were for the good of the members and based on some clever algorithms etc, surely they should have announced this last week.
 
I am looking at Beach Club. If I add up all the 2019 weeks of points is comes to 3,622. If I add up all the 2020 points is comes to 3,737. I thought they had to remain the same. The numbers can be reallocated but the total has to stay the same right?
 
After last year's increase in points for the Club Level studios at AKV I was hoping we would not have another increase this year, DVC obviously had other ideas in mind. I still don't understand why the value rooms aren't going up in points to balance the demand for those.
 
If it were for the good of the members and based on some clever algorithms etc, surely they should have announced this last week.

Reallocations are rarely popular. The mere fact that they are necessary indicates the points are unbalanced in the first place. Members are the beneficiaries of that imbalance.

I agree that more probably could have / should have been done, especially with regard to the seasons. Though there is danger in making too many changes at once. Overcorrecting has the potential to dramatically skew demand. Additionally, the POS limits year-to-year increases of just (edit) 20% for any given night. A Beach Club weekday studio went from 15 to 17 points in October (Choice). They can't go any higher while staying under the cap. Theoretically, this could be the first part of a multi-year adjustment process. About 10 years ago, it took at least 2 years to rebalance the weekdays and weekends.

My impression is that the need to raise Studio costs was the primary objective here, along with lowering some of the rooms like the Bungalows. Beyond that, I'm not sure they were overly concerned how 1B or 2B costs were impacted in making the numbers balance.
 
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I am looking at Beach Club. If I add up all the 2019 weeks of points is comes to 3,622. If I add up all the 2020 points is comes to 3,737. I thought they had to remain the same. The numbers can be reallocated but the total has to stay the same right?

To do the math properly, you need to take into account all 365 days of the year (different lengths of each DVC season) and the number of villas of each size.
 
After last year's increase in points for the Club Level studios at AKV I was hoping we would not have another increase this year, DVC obviously had other ideas in mind. I still don't understand why the value rooms aren't going up in points to balance the demand for those.
So they can sell points to some sucker by saying « look, you only need xx points for a wk in a value at AKV which you can book at 7 months no issues »...
 
I put together a comparison of the net change for AKV year over year. TLDR; values are even cheaper, savanna views are up the most.

For my typical vacation pattern my cost goes up 10 points a year. Booooo.

288tqiq.jpg
 
I look at AKV and wonder what drugs they were on. AKV value studios stayed the same, 1BRs went down about 8% per season, and 2BRs down 4-8% depending on season. In other words, someone concluded that a room view that very often books full at 8 a.m. exactly 11 months out somehow had far too little demand and thus needed a point decrease. Other changes were more diverse than other resorts. Club level 1BRs and 2BRs went up. 1BR standard view went up adventure and choice season but down the other seasons. Savanna view 1BRs decreased 1 point per weekend day in Magic season, but an 8% increase in premier and adventure season, and then only 2 to 3 point weekly increases in choice and dream season. Standard 2BRs two points per week in adventure and dream season, 5 in choice season, 13 in magic season and 27 in premier. Savanna view 2BRs. GV's came down some except savanna view remained the same for adventure and choice season.

You look at many of the changes, like increasing 1BRs at many resorts, and cannot come up with an explanation of justification for the change and some changes just seem to be random decisions. One change should render many disturbed. The one at Poly. Disney built all those bungalows knowing full well they would usually not fill before 60 days out via member reservations (when Poly went on sale, if one wanted to buy enough points to get a bungalow for a week per year in magic season, it would have cost $250,000). Disney got what it wanted, an excuse to legally sell a huge amount of bungalow-related points to persons who could only afford studios, while at the same time knowing it would likely get the right to rent a lot of those bungalows during the 60-day breaking period at an almost pure profit because the members would cover all the maintenance costs in dues (my tracking of Poly reservations has indicated that they are typically open at 60 days out about 80% of the time during DVC's low to moderate demand season from mid-Jan to late Sep). Now, after Poly has sold out it has decided to start shifting bungalow points to studio. One can surmise it is so it can make even more profit because it can use fewer of the points it owns at the resort to reserve and then rent bungalows even more than 60 days out. Those owning or considering buying at CCV should be aware the same can happen in relation to the cabins once CCV sells out.

Note, some apparently have a misunderstanding of what DVC is required to do in reallocating points. For example, many mention some obligation in the declarations to reallocate because of demand pattern changes. There actually is no requirement in the documents to reallocate points due to seasonal, room type, or any other demand changes. The only thing the documents require is that if DVC, in its discretion, determines a reallocation is needed because of changes in demand, it can do one, as long as any increase in points for a room type or season is met by an equal decrease elsewhere so that total points applicable to the units at the resort remain unchanged. It does not actually have any express duty to make changes. One might argue that DVC's legal obligation to act in the best interests of the members requires it to reallocate when demand becomes skewed. But that is never an easy argument to win, particularly because DVC can always assert any changes it would make would help some members and hurt some and thus it is not necessarily in the bests interests of the members as a whole to make any changes.

Also, someone above asked about maximum annual changes. For any given room in any given night the points needed cannot be decreased or increased more than 20% from what they were in the prior calendar year
 
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