5 killed, 25 injured (several critical), in Colorado club mass shooting. And now, less than a week later, another.

[Princesca]

Meanwhile this was the headline in my metro on the 21st: "KCMO is seeing something that hasn't happened in five years. No one died from gun violence for two and a half weeks"

The next day on the 22nd: "The Kansas City, Missouri, Police Department is investigating a double homicide that happened not far from their East Patrol Campus on Tuesday afternoon." It was from a shooting.

The completely bonkers thing is how desensitized people have become to shootings. I find that I have an immediate knee-jerk reaction of "Oh, it's only five people, thank God" before I have a minute to sit with it and count the cost of those five lives and all the lives of the people who loved them. What the eff... what kind of country do we live in that this has become our response?

 

[penn19]

This is interesting, but in their case I suspect it's some bonkers reason like they think they're a god and beyond any concept of gender.

Maybe it has to do with their own sexuality and not anything political? I’m sure if it’s the former and not the latter, this story will die quickly.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The completely bonkers thing is how desensitized people have become to shootings. I find that I have an immediate knee-jerk reaction of "Oh, it's only five people, thank God" before I have a minute to sit with it and count the cost of those five lives and all the lives of the people who loved them. What the eff... what kind of country do we live in that this has become our response?

I'm not desensitized to shootings on a general level and will be honest in saying that other instances hit me a lot harder from schools to workplaces to churches, etc. Even if I can understand workplace instances (which the Walmart one they were an employee) more on a logical level it still gets to me.

Unfortunately here in my metro it is a near daily occurrence to hear about shootings primarily in KCMO, they track the homicide rate and usually discuss it in terms of "this many homicides this year by this time last year it was this or "we're on track to surpass last year's numbers". The reasons for it (largely gang, vendetta, drive-bys, drug purchasing, those types of things) do not get an eyebrow raise from me. Loss of life is saddening no matter what though and I wish I didn't open the several news websites here and see it.

 

[VandVsmama]

The media is reporting now that the CO shooter is non-binary.

 

[monsterkitty]

What examples of leaders and what they say can you give. I don’t hear any what I’m thinking you mean elected leader spewing hatful rhetoric towards gay people in Canada or the US. I do hear it in certain religious based governments in the Middle East and Asia. But not in N America.

I was trying to stay out of this thread as the Springs shooting is about 90 minutes from me and I have pretty strong feelings about the climate in the Springs. However, this comment can't go ignored.

The Congresswoman from CO3 is one of the worst offenders in throwing comments about the LGBTQ community. She took a very strong red district and barely beat her challenger earlier this month. Those who have always voted red but voted for her challenger specifically stated they did so due to her rhetoric on gun violence and the LGBTQ community.

There is more I could say but while I'm sure I will get some points for what I just wrote, I don't want more.

 

[sam_gordon]

I predict within 24 hours this thread will be locked.

 

[CdnCarrie]

The Walmart shooting was a manager firing at his staff in the break room. Crazy.

 

[Princesca]

I predict within 24 hours this thread will be locked.

I hope not... processing events like this with a community is healthy and helpful. And so far I haven't seen anyone assert anything as a fact that was untrue.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The rise of ugly christofascism is here and we ignore it at our peril.

The shooter was LGBTQ+. This was a killing within the community, not an attack on it from the outside.

 

[Princesca]

The shooter was LGBTQ+. This was a killing within the community, not an attack on it from the outside.

It's possible that they are claiming this as a hope that it will help them avoid hate crime charges. 'How can it be a hate crime if I myself am a member of the community?' If you have a source that definitively states otherwise, or shows evidence of them living as NB prior to this event, I'd like to see it. They changed their name at one point; one wonders if they made any effort to also declare as non-binary before they were being charged with five counts of murder and five counts of bias-motivated crimes. It's quite possible their attorney advised them in this direction.

ETA: I'm not an expert on Colorado law, but I just read a Colorado resident's comment that a hate crime gets the feds involved, and Colorado has no death penalty, so this makes me even more suspicious of my above suggestion; that this is a ploy to make the hate crime part of it less likely to stand and therefore avoid the death penalty. At least one acquaintance of theirs has also said that they regularly used gay slurs, and I don't think anyone who would do that could be considered to be 'inside the community', in the sense of having an affinity and kinship for a community.

Either way, even when someone 'within' the community attacks the community, it's often driven or at least encouraged by the self-loathing caused by the repression or recrimination of that community by those outside it.

 

[Allison]

Well, for starters, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert have both used social media to champion the reprehensible idea that gay people=groomers/pedophiles.

The Republican Party of Texas adopted its latest platform to a description of homosexuality as "an abnormal lifestyle choice." The platform also proposes opposition to "all efforts to validate transgender identity."

There's also the entire 'Don't Say Gay' bill nonsense... the press secretary for Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis tweeted that anyone who opposes the bill “is probably a groomer or at least you don’t denounce the grooming of 4-8 year old children.” Targeting the queer community is the GOP's MO lately. Or at least a significant faction of the GOP.

I'm surprised Art isn't aware of these things.

 

[sam_gordon]

And so far I haven't seen anyone assert anything as a fact that was untrue.

Has nothing to do with what's true or not. Political posts aren't allowed on the board.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It's possible that they are claiming this as a hope that it will help them avoid hate crime charges. 'How can it be a hate crime if I myself am a member of the community?' If you have a source that definitively states otherwise, or shows evidence of them living as NB prior to this event, I'd like to see it. They changed their name at one point; one wonders if they made any effort to also declare as non-binary before they were being charged with five counts of murder and five counts of bias-motivated crimes. It's quite possible their attorney advised them in this direction.

5 counts of murder and what, 25 counts of attempted murder? Whether this person gets hit with federal hate crime charges on top of the gazillion year sentence he's going to get from the state of Colorado feels beside the point.

Either way, even when someone 'within' the community attacks the community, it's often driven or at least encouraged by the self-loathing caused by the repression or recrimination of that community by those outside it.

That's certainly possible, but do we even know yet if the community was specifically targeted? People still falsely talk about Pulse as an anti-gay attack and it's just not true. That killer wanted to hit Walt Disney World but found that security was too tight so he picked a softer target.

Murdering five people, murdering five people who happen to be gay, and murdering five people because they're gay all strike me as the same level of evil.

 

[jrmasm]

I'm surprised Art isn't aware of these things.

Are you?

 

[robinb]

The shooter was LGBTQ+. This was a killing within the community, not an attack on it from the outside.

That’s how the killer’s lawyer is hoping the murders will be reframed. I think it’s an attempt to weasel out of federal hate crimes.

 

[Princesca]

Has nothing to do with what's true or not. Political posts aren't allowed on the board.

I guess I don't find the discussion of hate crimes, and what motivates them, to be inherently political. It makes me sad that any matter concerning queer lives is rendered immediately political by the virtue of the fact that there are people in the world who don't want us to exist, and try to use political means to achieve that. If I had it my way, nothing about my life or my family would be political - other people just keep trying to make it so.

 

[Princesca]

That’s what the killer’s lawyer is hoping the murders will be reframed. I think it’s an attempt to weasel out of federal hate crimes.

Agree, especially given that apparently Colorado doesn't have the death penalty, so there's a great incentive to keep this crime under state jurisdiction.

 

[TippyThomas]

It's like Art wanted to throw a wet dishrag on the conversation.

 

[sam_gordon]

I guess I don't find the discussion of hate crimes, and what motivates them, to be inherently political. It makes me sad that any matter concerning queer lives is rendered immediately political by the virtue of the fact that there are people in the world who don't want us to exist, and try to use political means to achieve that. If I had it my way, nothing about my life or my family would be political - other people just keep trying to make it so.

Sigh. The fact the shooting victims were queer is not what I was referring to as "political". There are definitely posts in this thread I can see can be referred to as "political". It's the individual posts that I am referring to, not the subject.

While I wish we could discuss things more freely on this board, I don't get to make those decisions. Of course, if I, or you, or anyone, don't like the limitations put on conversations on the board, we're free to go find other boards that allow the discussion we'd like.

 

[VandVsmama]

The media is now reporting that the Colorado shooter self-identifies as non-binary, uses pronouns of "they/them," and is referred to as Mx. Aldrich in court documents.

The CO shooter is also listed as a registered member of the LDS church. The LDS church has since come out and said that the shooter isn't an active member. As one knows in any religious organization, one can still be a member and not be an active one.

The motive is probably a little complex on this one. We should let law enforcement do their jobs to sort it all out.