5 killed, 25 injured (several critical), in Colorado club mass shooting. And now, less than a week later, another.

[Neapolitan Ice Cream]

There is an interview with the CO shooters dad where he is relieved that his son is not gay- murder apparently does not faze him but he expresses relief that he has been assured that his son is not gay. Mother stated son changed name due to embarrassment of father having done adult films and been on the show Intervention. I do not buy this non binary so not a hate crime at all.

Link to news interview:
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/l...-out/509-6c4ad66e-35ef-41a5-9255-bca31cea3a73

Just wanted to say, but, @dreamer17555, I love your avatar!

 

[dez1978]

There is an interview with the CO shooters dad where he is relieved that his son is not gay- murder apparently does not faze him but he expresses relief that he has been assured that his son is not gay. Mother stated son changed name due to embarrassment of father having done adult films and been on the show Intervention. I do not buy this non binary so not a hate crime at all.

Link to news interview:
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/l...-out/509-6c4ad66e-35ef-41a5-9255-bca31cea3a73

It seems like both of his parents were screwed up and I don’t think I’d really take daddy dearest’s word as the gospel truth either.

The counter point to this is being in a family so stringently anti-gay would cause a lot of mental health issues if the shooter started to realize he was anything other than straight.

This is a very valid point. Especially if someone already had mental illness, that could be the tipping point.

 

[Colleen27]

What examples of leaders and what they say can you give. I don’t hear any what I’m thinking you mean elected leader spewing hatful rhetoric towards gay people in Canada or the US. I do hear it in certain religious based governments in the Middle East and Asia. But not in N America.

I think you know full well that any specific responses to your question would get this thread shut down, and I see from another post later on that you're basically just baiting the people who disagree with you into violating board rules so you can call them out and demand they be banned. Way to derail what has been a respectful conversation.

I'm sure you know that you certainly don't have to look to the Middle East or Africa to find leaders campaigning on baseless claims that members of the LGBTQ community pray on children in one way or another. And really, it isn't that big a leap from those claims to violence. In defense of the innocents who can't defend themselves against drag shows and books with gay characters, of course. After all, what could be a more noble goal in life than protecting children?

This is interesting, but in their case I suspect it's some bonkers reason like they think they're a god and beyond any concept of gender.

Or its a cynical ploy to claim the shooting can't be a hate crime because he's a member of the community he targeted. Or a deliberate effort to frame the conversation about the shooting in a particular way that adherents of certain belief systems tend to promote.

 

[Colleen27]

There is an interview with the CO shooters dad where he is relieved that his son is not gay- murder apparently does not faze him but he expresses relief that he has been assured that his son is not gay. Mother stated son changed name due to embarrassment of father having done adult films and been on the show Intervention. I do not buy this non binary so not a hate crime at all.

Link to news interview:
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/l...-out/509-6c4ad66e-35ef-41a5-9255-bca31cea3a73

I saw that earlier and it crossed my mind that the kid never stood a chance. Both parents are off their rockers.

But... the name change. I didn't even connect it until the "dad is a porn actor" angle came up, but really? The child of a porn actor chose "Anderson Lee" as his name? That is beyond absurd.

 

[Suger Mag]

Maybe it has to do with their own sexuality and not anything political? I’m sure if it’s the former and not the latter, this story will die quickly.

Maybe it is true, but I also think it is a ploy to avoid the hate crime charges.... in that they can't be charged with with a biased crime against LGBQT if they are also non binary

 

[penn19]

Maybe it is true, but I also think it is a ploy to avoid the hate crime charges.... in that they can't be charged with with a biased crime against LGBQT if they are also non binary

I’m not a killer or anything but I feel like if you’ve already crossed that line do really care about being charged with a hate crime or just plain ol murder? Not sure how a murderer thinks. But you know going in there’s going to be punishment. At that point you just don’t care. Or you’d do nothing.

 

[dez1978]

This was the same issue with Aaron Alexis at the Navy Yard shooting (my workplace). He was schizophrenic, paranoid, delusional, thought the government was out to get him. It then spilled over to menacing behavior towards other people but never quite enough that it was actionable. But everyone, include his employer, knew he was off and they did nothing. People do NOT want to make those claims and ruin someone's entire life, which it sort of does. You can be fired for this stuff and he should have been. In fact, I believe this employer was being sued for negliance by the surviving families. But there were many other times where his behavior was ignored, even by the military, because nobody seems to be able to deal with mental illness such as this in adults that do not want or accept treatment. All the laws are gone to institutionalize someone against their will. It's just a sad, sad situation and it takes people getting killed and them being killed to stop just that one person.

Semi off topic, but if mentally Ill people don’t want treatment, and get sent to a facility for “treatment “ to regain competency to stand trial, if they refuse treatment claiming religious reasons, they can’t be forcibly medicated if they aren’t engaging in repeated violent behavior. So then they just hang out at the hospital for years before a judge MIGHT consider a court order for forced meds. Those people are interesting.

Those are the people like Darrell Brooks who are clearly not well, but technically are competent to stand trial. Competent and sane are not the same.

 

[Suger Mag]

I’m not a killer or anything but I feel like if you’ve already crossed that line do really care about being charged with a hate crime or just plain ol murder? Not sure how a murderer thinks. But you know going in there’s going to be punishment. At that point you just don’t care. Or you’d do nothing.

that was a decision made by his defense attorneys, not him is my opinion. I dont think it is genuine, but strategic,. At this point I assume he (they, his defense team) is trying to avoid a death penalty. Their job is to defend him, they dont care about his feelings or beliefs. Now is the time to remake him into a victim and garner sympathy and create a more favorable environment for a trial. As someone else pointed out, that federal crime makes him eligible for that level of sentencing.

 

[punkin]

that was a decision made by his defense attorneys, not him is my opinion. I dont think it is genuine, but strategic,. At this point I assume he (they, his defense team) is trying to avoid a death penalty. Their job is to defend him, they dont care about his feelings or beliefs. Now is the time to remake him into a victim and garner sympathy and create a more favorable environment for a trial. As someone else pointed out, that federal crime makes him eligible for that level of sentencing.

There's no reason to think that other than it interferes with the notion that a person who identifies as non binary and uses they them pronouns (nice refusal to use those pronouns, btw) couldnt possibly be a shooter.
I have news for you, defense lawyers do the best job they can without actually suborning perjury (which lying about your pronouns would be).

 

[xdan0920]

I’m not a killer or anything but I feel like if you’ve already crossed that line do really care about being charged with a hate crime or just plain ol murder? Not sure how a murderer thinks. But you know going in there’s going to be punishment. At that point you just don’t care. Or you’d do nothing.

Exactly. His pronouns have zero impact on the crime.

that was a decision made by his defense attorneys, not him is my opinion. I dont think it is genuine, but strategic,. At this point I assume he (they, his defense team) is trying to avoid a death penalty. Their job is to defend him, they dont care about his feelings or beliefs. Now is the time to remake him into a victim and garner sympathy and create a more favorable environment for a trial. As someone else pointed out, that federal crime makes him eligible for that level of sentencing.

This makes no sense. If he is cis or non-binary or whatever, has no impact on his crime or sentencing. Unless you are trying to saying being non-binary = mental illness?

 

[monsterkitty]

Exactly. His pronouns have zero impact on the crime.

This makes no sense. If he is cis or non-binary or whatever, has no impact on his crime or sentencing. Unless you are trying to saying being non-binary = mental illness?

Colorado does not have the death penalty. However, if he is charged with a hate crime and it becomes a federal charge, then he could face the death penalty.

By claiming the shooter is bi, the defense is trying to ward off those federal hate crimes to avoid the death penalty.

 

[EACarlson]

that was a decision made by his defense attorneys, not him is my opinion. I dont think it is genuine, but strategic,. At this point I assume he (they, his defense team) is trying to avoid a death penalty. Their job is to defend him, they dont care about his feelings or beliefs. Now is the time to remake him into a victim and garner sympathy and create a more favorable environment for a trial. As someone else pointed out, that federal crime makes him eligible for that level of sentencing.

The defense team can't make a decision without the defendant's consent. If the defendant was so homophobic that they took to shooting up a gay nightclub, they would most likely do anything to avoid having people think they are a part of that community, many have and would denounce it even knowing it to be true.

Colorado does not have the death penalty. However, if he is charged with a hate crime and it becomes a federal charge, then he could face the death penalty.

By claiming the shooter is bi, the defense is trying to ward off those federal hate crimes to avoid the death penalty.

What the defense team argues to state charges has no bearing on what federal charges may or may not be filed. If this was truly a provable bias crime we would have seen or heard evidence of it by now. I'm going to go with this person was scorned at the club after assuming it would be easy to find a partner there and snapped. Not like their home life has ever been easy or supportive.

 

[Suger Mag]

Exactly. His pronouns have zero impact on the crime.

This makes no sense. If he is cis or non-binary or whatever, has no impact on his crime or sentencing. Unless you are trying to saying being non-binary = mental illness?

if their pronoun choice have zero impact on the case and are completely unimportant, then why did the defense attorneys make a point of declaring them in a presser and announcing their non binary status? That says, at least to me.... that yes, it IS important for their defense. It is too much coincidence, especially with the potential for a hate crime on the table.

And no of course not, I am NOT in any way suggesting that being non-binary = mental illness.

I do think that this kid has a lot of problems to find themselves on the shooter side of a gun killing innocent people who are just trying to enjoy their nights and have fun. I do not think their choice of a target was random.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

if their pronoun choice have zero impact on the case and are completely unimportant, then why did the defense attorneys make a point of declaring them in a presser and announcing their non binary status? That says, at least to me.... that yes, it IS important for their defense. It is too much coincidence, especially with the potential for a hate crime on the table.

And no of course not, I am NOT in any way suggesting that being non-binary = mental illness.

I do think that this kid has a lot of problems to find themselves on the shooter side of a gun killing innocent people who are just trying to enjoy their nights and have fun. I do not think their choice of a target was random.

Regardless of whether people feel this is a ploy or not their legal representatives must make it known for court proceedings.

And for the time being regardless of what anyone feels about the particular person, the right to be referred to as what you state is like anyone else would also get that right.

 

[Marrila]

Regardless of whether people feel this is a ploy or not their legal representatives must make it known for court proceedings.

And for the time being regardless of what anyone feels about the particular person, the right to be referred to as what you state is like anyone else would also get that right.

Folks can certainly see the request as mighty convenient. While at the same time understanding that the ask is available to defendants to use if they choose.

 

[Pink Partridge]

This makes no sense. If he is cis or non-binary or whatever, has no impact on his crime or sentencing. Unless you are trying to saying being non-binary = mental illness?

Psychiatric disorders are highly prevalent among nonbinary adults.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Folks can certainly see the request as mighty convenient. While at the same time understanding that the ask is available to defendants to use if they choose.

Yeah of course and I thought that was something that didn't need to be said, I think we all know that. I'm just responding to the discussion about defense team and all. Regardless of how any of us feel for legality reasons it would need to be known.