A pondering....

[Sandy Fisher]

Would have to say I agree with 99% of what you posted. Our first trip to Disney was in the spring of 1982 (Epcot wasn't finished yet) and we only had Magic Kingdom and some assorted things in the area, but really only one true Disney Park. We loved every minute of it.
We've continued to go as a famiy about every 3 or 4 years as the boys were growing up and even one last "family" trip with them as adults. Loved every minute of it. Good weather, bad weather, crowds or not.
Then we moved to FL and could go when and if we pleased -- annual passes, etc. It was still a break or a vacation for us because we didn't buy into the dining deals and have yet to make an advanced dining reservation. We too were able to walk in to most places where we wanted to eat. UNTIL the character meals became such a big deal.
We have had no experience with fast pass plus although we usually got fast passes for Soarin' and then rode it twice in one morning. We're not anxious to experience magic bands, free dining, (it would be a waste for us because we don't eat that much), etc.
Now that we're back up north, we'll go much much less often and it will still be a vacation. It's just harder and harder all the time to go when it isn't crowded. We enjoyed the benefits of annual passes and FL resident discounts, but we don't have that now.
I plan (believe me my family thinks I'm nuts a lot) because I like to be prepared. I never did plan which ride to do when or when to eat. We ate when we were hungry. We rode what we wanted and rarely stood in lines. To each his own, but I really think it's become much more complicated than necessary. Just an old fogie speaking her mind. I've seen Disney over the past 30 years change in good ways and some not so good (just my opinion) so I know whereof I speak.
Still love it. Or most of it.

 

[metzgardesign]

I understand the "take a break" concept. And we have taken non-WDW vacations.

And if folks enjoy the planning aspect.....cool. I admittedly have even enjoyed making way-advanced ADR's at times.

But, the purpose of this is the investigation of the concept of "planning." I was talking to a friend about an upcoming WDW trip for them, explaining the need for the 6-month-out dining plans for particular meals. And that, along with the on-line discussions of the FP+ concept as well as the aforementioned period of clarity looking over our list of ressies.....made me stop and think "This is nuts. In a general, detached way, this is crazy. Deciding where one wants to eat, what one want to ride months in advance, strikes me as truly bizarre. Or at least, in my mind, it is, when I stop and really consider the concept."

More of just a me sitting here, saying "Really?!?!"

 

[Jennasis]

You kind of missed the point. The discussions of this idiotic FP+ implementation are what provoked this line of thought.

I am utterly amazed that a system is being put in place to reserve ride times two months out. Nuts. A completely crazy concept, which, in theory (and by that, I mean very obtuse theory.....boardroom "This may work" theory) would maybe sound good, but in practice is going to, I think, crap the bed in a monumental scope. That is, if they can even develop a technological support system that works with any efficiency whatsoever.

This is an allusion the that "corporate tunnel vision" I mentioned. I think the suits got so wrapped up in the concept, and the desire for implementation, that little concern was given initially....to the feasibility. "It sounds 'great' and by George.....we'll make it work, sort of-ish."

Yes....one can still ride stand-by....and one can hope Disney suddenly has complete accuracies in their predictions that the system will make everyone's experiences more pleasurable.

I didn't miss the point. I happen to agree that scheduling a FP 60 days out is lunacy. I don't have any intention of playing their reindeer games, and have already said time and again that we'll just forego FP altogether or settle for whatever is left day of if it fits our schedule.

 

[UNCFanatik]

I dont understand the angst of some people when they say they dont want to plan a ride at a certain time when these same people often have plans of what sequence they will hit the attractions. Especially at DHS where people plan to hit TSMM first and then jedi training or a combo of ToT and RNRRC. These same people will look at projection calendars of best parks and plan their trip to be at DHS at a certain day and then hit the attractions in a certain sequence. I see little functional difference for FP+ for these planners on this level. I do understand more about their concern with hard caps of teh amount of FPs they can get on a certain day as opposed to before.

I see people on here that are hard core planners in every other part of their trip but then claim that when they hit the park they just do whatever when it comes to attractions but later when you read these people's trip reports you read about how they planned what sequence to experience attractions and I have yet to read a TR from one of these people who despise the upcoming FP+ system where they missed one of their favorite attractions or getting multiple FPs for them. It is amazing that people who say they dont plan attractions somehow hit the most popular ones first thing their entire trip. I guess that is some astounding coincidence.

And yes, the stand by line is always an option. Here again, I do not understand when people say they will not wait in an SB line for more than 20 minutes have no problems staking out a parade/closing show spot an hour beforehand. How is that any different than standing in an hour line?

And for some, planning is part of the fun for them. Part of the DISboard appeal is to be "in the know" about certain facets about WDW. DISboard's success is in a large part due to the planners that come to the boards to ask questions and research their trips. People dont want to spend thousands of dollars on a Disney vacation and get there and realize that they couldnt experience something because it was already booked up or sold out. Spontaneity has a lot of advantages for the long term and multi-time visitor but can end up being a hindrance to the first time guest who comes with no plan in mind at all.

Lastly, look how much money is generated on the secondary Disney market by websites and guidebooks for Disney by those that do plan.

 

[metzgardesign]

I didn't miss the point. I happen to agree that scheduling a FP 60 days out is lunacy. I don't have any intention of playing their reindeer games, and have already said time and again that we'll just forego FP altogether or settle for whatever is left day of if it fits our schedule.

Ahhhh....OK...gotcha, then.

 

[ShayBells]

I think the worst for me is making ADRs period because I feel like try are a waste of precious park time. I go out to eat all the time at home and dot want to waste time eating fancy over priced meals there. I do the character buffet at CP for my kid and make sure I get in as early as I can. That is not hard to plan around especially if you have park hoppers. I agree though that FP+ would drive me insane. I hate the ADRs for this as well I don't wantto worry about being some place. Even saying all this though I love the planning. I don't got minute by minute but I put park and ride order on a list. So there is no stress over not knowing what or where to go but I know we don't have to stick to it.

I love this place so much I don't think anything would stop me going. :/

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[moepanz]

I agree and I kinda blame "us'... It is fun being "in" on tips and ways to speed along our WDW vacations, once I discovered these boards it in a way "ruined" every trip since. My mother always said "ignorance is bliss". I remember when you used to able to walk in to LeCellier (yes, I have) and not stress about what I was going to miss out on. I was happy to just be there, not knowing what I was "missing out" on. I have to say one of my favorite trips recently was our CS only trip. No ADR's at all. It was awesome. We had total control over what we wanted to do and when we wanted to do. My family forced me to take a pool day, unheard of in previous trips, honestly I could not tell you what any Disney resort pool looked like. It was the best day of out our trip.
Take a break from planning next time and just go and enjoy.

 

[metzgardesign]

I agree and I kinda blame "us'... It is fun being "in" on tips and ways to speed along our WDW vacations, once I discovered these boards it in a way "ruined" every trip since. My mother always said "ignorance is bliss". I remember when you used to able to walk in to LeCellier (yes, I have) and not stress about what I was going to miss out on. I was happy to just be there, not knowing what I was "missing out" on. I have to say one of my favorite trips recently was our CS only trip. No ADR's at all. It was awesome. We had total control over what we wanted to do and when we wanted to do. My family forced me to take a pool day, unheard of in previous trips, honestly I could not tell you what any Disney resort pool looked like. It was the best day of out our trip.
Take a break from planning next time and just go and enjoy.

Good for you.

That is what I've been trying to speak to. Generally, other than ADR's (out of necessity) we try to be completely flexible. No plans for rides at certain times (really no plan for once we get in the park or even what time we get there). I've been known to just sit down on a bench and watch folks for a while. Or even decide to just hop on a bus and head to another park for no particular reason. Or go back to the resort and just swim.

And that is what a vacation should be (to me).

I may have to try your suggestion (even though I am not too fond of many of the CS joints....but there are some good ones with a variety of options......Love the F&W activities for example).

My son's consternation about WDW was related to our dining ADR's and the MVMCP plans mostly. The self-imposed (by me) need to be at a particular place at a particular time. Nothing new with our recent trips, really....but I suppose he was more attuned to it this past time.

And that is why I am glad people are discussing it. This was really intended as an exploration of why WDW has gotten to be so regimented....why advance planning is so 'needed' and encouraged by the company now. I know the crowds are larger, the demands on the resources greater. But I can't believe that making dining reservations 6 months ahead of time or ride ressies ahead of time are really the solutions for the "problems."

 

[UNCFanatik]

Good for you.

That is what I've been trying to speak to. Generally, other than ADR's (out of necessity) we try to be completely flexible. No plans for rides at certain times (really no plan for once we get in the park or even what time we get there). I've been known to just sit down on a bench and watch folks for a while. Or even decide to just hop on a bus and head to another park for no particular reason. Or go back to the resort and just swim.

And that is what a vacation should be (to me).

I may have to try your suggestion (even though I am not too fond of many of the CS joints....but there are some good ones with a variety of options......Love the F&W activities for example).

My son's consternation about WDW was related to our dining ADR's and the MVMCP plans mostly. The self-imposed (by me) need to be at a particular place at a particular time. Nothing new with our recent trips, really....but I suppose he was more attuned to it this past time.

And that is why I am glad people are discussing it. This was really intended as an exploration of why WDW has gotten to be so regimented....why advance planning is so 'needed' and encouraged by the company now. I know the crowds are larger, the demands on the resources greater. But I can't believe that making dining reservations 6 months ahead of time or ride ressies ahead of time are really the solutions for the "problems."

One of the multitude of reasons that one could offer as why advanced planning is encouraged to a degree by the company is the feedback of guests that do not want to get up early on their vacations to make RD and then they miss out on FPs for popular rides like TSMM. And why cant they get FPs when they wander into DHS at 12 noon for TSMM? because of the planners who knew to be at DHS at RD to rush to TSMM to ride and pull FPs for later. So disney received negative feedback from these guests and is now offering them a way to sleep in AND get an FP+ for their favorite attractions.

Advanced planning was always "needed" at some degree or another for a segment of park guests that wanted to maximize their vacation dollars and time. I, for one, will hit WDW about every 5-10 years depending on other vacations the family is interested in. FOR ME, i want to maximize the money and time I am spending so I plan how i want to tour the parks.

As far as ADRs are concerned, as people have mentioned, the dining plan created the need for that.

so what would be your solution?

 

[metzgardesign]

One of the multitude of reasons that one could offer as why advanced planning is encouraged to a degree by the company is the feedback of guests that do not want to get up early on their vacations to make RD and then they miss out on FPs for popular rides like TSMM. And why cant they get FPs when they wander into DHS at 12 noon for TSMM? because of the planners who knew to be at DHS at RD to rush to TSMM to ride and pull FPs for later. So disney received negative feedback from these guests and is now offering them a way to sleep in AND get an FP+ for their favorite attractions.

Advanced planning was always "needed" at some degree or another for a segment of park guests that wanted to maximize their vacation dollars and time. I, for one, will hit WDW about every 5-10 years depending on other vacations the family is interested in. FOR ME, i want to maximize the money and time I am spending so I plan how i want to tour the parks.

As far as ADRs are concerned, as people have mentioned, the dining plan created the need for that.

so what would be your solution?

Uh....my solution would be for you to do as you wish. If you like to plan and maximize your vacation dollars and time, and if WDW has in place a convoluted system for you to do so.....then by all means, do it.

I will still ponder the ridiculousness, in my eyes, of the system. Ultimately, I would have zero issue with losing the dining plans (don't use them.....but I understand many people do). More importantly, I would be OK with losing the free dining promotions. And I would be OK with maintaining the FP system they have now, with perhaps a more staggered distribution plan of say "X" FP's will be distributed per hour for the in-demand attractions, if doable (maybe not). Perhaps people's entitlement mentality would not make that feasible.

Perhaps, disable some of the policies put in place that were originally intended to make things work better, but have ultimately made things more boogered. Things that were originally intended as incentives and are now seen as expectations or entitlements.

Perhaps, a return to when things weren't so difficult to navigate would work well, or work better than trying to keep sticking band-aids on systems that really don't work too well at all, hoping that each subsequent band-aid will be the "magic" one.

Maybe the powers that be can stop trying to re-invent the wheel.

 

[TinkDisneyGirl]

Since 2000, we have been to Disney 3 to 4 times per year. Our last trip was in July. I'm sure we will return, but it won't be anytime soon. There is way too much planning. I love to plan but want some flexibility at the same time. We are planning other trips for the next few years.

 

[1000HappyWishes]

I agree with a good part of this. I understand the Dining Reservations and don't mind that part, but I will not be a supported of the FP+ or the MyMagic whatcamacallits. I have my traditions and besides that, everything else is up to whatever I want to do. The only thing I know is that the moment I get the the Magic Kingdom, my first ride is Space Mountain, and then everything is else is up in the air. While I like making Rope Drop, not a necessity for me. I just like to get my full day's worth out of a park ticket and I know I can make it the whole day. But the touring plans? Don't like them, wouldn't use them. Fastpass? Maybe. FP+? Heck no.

 

[rdevine10]

I agree 100%. I got super burned out of our trips where we had free dining and had to be at this place at this time, etc etc etc. We took a couple years off and went back this past april. We had a few ressies, but I was really disgusted by the quality of food for the price. I have decided we will likely never eat another TS ressie in WDW again (with possibly the exception of maybe 1 or 2 restaurants, but Im even leary of that). My kids are older now- so we dont need anymore character meals.

So- for our trip coming up in the next week, I have done NO planning. I didnt consult the crowd indexes (well, briefly months ago)- I am NOT making touring plans- NO reservations- minus hotel and we are going to WING IT! Im sure we will have a great time- Im thankful the fastpass system is still in place because I TRULY hate you can schedule things so far in advance.

Trust me, I love vacation planning, but, I need to be a little more free-flowing and less rigid in these trips. And if Disney continues to move in this direction, I see us visiting less and less. I already am not sure when we will return- possibly as many as 5 years plus down the road. Really not liking the way things are moving with Disney right now....

 

[mattsdragon]

I'm ok with the planners. . .let them have their fun. I plan when we are going, what parks are what days and where we will eat. That is the extent of our planning.

However, I wish they would still allow spontaneity for those who prefer it. I would prefer to be more spontaneous, but it has gotten to the point that some planning is required because they over compensate for those that I like to call "crazy people".

FP+. . . great, sounds lovely. Put a cap on the number of FP's for each ride for each day. Let the rest of us use the kiosks.
ADR's. . .great. Heck, start allowing people to reserve seats a year in advance. . .I'm easy. But limit the number of seats, at no time can more than a certain percentage of the restaurant be occupied by ADR people, so that people can walk up to BOG, or LeCellier, or Rose and Crown and actually be able to get a meal.

Disney is a great place to experience so many magical moments, but they need to do a better job at finding a middle ground between those who aren't OCD and those that have some compulsion issues.

 

[Wendybird55]

BUT...As PPs have touched upon, we on the Dis are probably a small fraction of all the folks who go to Disney. How many posts do we read from Disers saying how friends or co-workers decide randomly to go to Disney and have "no idea" of how to plan and don't even know what a FP is? Many people do what we say we're missing - they just book the resort and tickets and go. Because we enjoy Disney so and have been to there so many times and are on these boards somewhat regularly, we are more aware of everything going on at Disney and I think sometimes we think if we don't do "this" or "that" we're missing out.

I visited Disney close to 20 times before I found the Dis boards and enjoyed myself each time. Yes, I was aware of certain things and learned how to navigate myself thru Disney, but it wasn't until I come upon these boards that I was immersed in everything Disney to the degree that at times I thought I was missing out on a lot based on what everyone was posting. I learned some great tips on these boards and got great information, but I also realized I need to pick and choose what my family wants to do and plan how I want to plan. I don't follow crowd calendars or EMH schedule or recommended parks. I don't run around trying to get FPs or scout the most perfect location to view an event and I don't feel just because I was able to get ADRS for some of the "impossible" restaurants to get into that I have to go to them. All things we read on the Dis boards plus so much more.

As a pp said - I think sometimes we're our own worst enemy in that we enjoy Disney so much and take pride in our knowledge and "command" over it that sometimes we feel compelled to plan, plan, plan when we really don't need to. I see many people in the parks looking around figuring out what to do next or where to eat and I bet those folks are having a wonderful vacation as well....Yes, if Disney was the only place I ever went I would be totally burned out from it, but fortunately we have also been able to take other trips away from Disney so going to Disney is (pardon the expression) like going home to us.

 

[metzgardesign]

BUT...As PPs have touched upon, we on the Dis are probably a small fraction of all the folks who go to Disney. How many posts do we read from Disers saying how friends or co-workers decide randomly to go to Disney and have "no idea" of how to plan and don't even know what a FP is? Many people do what we say we're missing - they just book the resort and tickets and go. Because we enjoy Disney so and have been to there so many times and are on these boards somewhat regularly, we are more aware of everything going on at Disney and I think sometimes we think if we don't do "this" or "that" we're missing out.

I visited Disney close to 20 times before I found the Dis boards and enjoyed myself each time. Yes, I was aware of certain things and learned how to navigate myself thru Disney, but it wasn't until I come upon these boards that I was immersed in everything Disney to the degree that at times I thought I was missing out on a lot based on what everyone was posting. I learned some great tips on these boards and got great information, but I also realized I need to pick and choose what my family wants to do and plan how I want to plan. I don't follow crowd calendars or EMH schedule or recommended parks. I don't run around trying to get FPs or scout the most perfect location to view an event and I don't feel just because I was able to get ADRS for some of the "impossible" restaurants to get into that I have to go to them. All things we read on the Dis boards plus so much more.

As a pp said - I think sometimes we're our own worst enemy in that we enjoy Disney so much and take pride in our knowledge and "command" over it that sometimes we feel compelled to plan, plan, plan when we really don't need to. I see many people in the parks looking around figuring out what to do next or where to eat and I bet those folks are having a wonderful vacation as well....Yes, if Disney was the only place I ever went I would be totally burned out from it, but fortunately we have also been able to take other trips away from Disney so going to Disney is (pardon the expression) like going home to us.

I understand that a LOT of visitors don't know the details as much as Dis readers do.

But enough must know enough to ensure that La Cellier is booked solid months in advance. Enough know what they are doing to guarantee that TSMM runs out of FP's an hour into the day.

Many do go to WDW without the magnitude of planning that some others do, and I am sure have a grand time. Perhaps it is my own feeling that I need to do more than I need to do. In that, I am overworking (even though I really do not do nearly as much as some (most?) here do. ADR's are about it as far as my planning goes.

I agree....WDW has always seemed familiar (I wouldn't go so far as "home"), but recently, it seems to me like she is the relative you go to visit who may not be so excited to see you come down her driveway.

 

[ShannonMB]

OP, I totally get what you are saying, and you spoke very eloquently and romantically about the good old Disney days of yore. What comes to mind for me when I think back about the no-planning-involved days of Disney as a kid is waiting in line for 2 hours to get on the Jungle Cruise and the Tiki Birds and Country Bear Jamboree being among the headliners. Gazing at the Polynesian across the lagoon knowing we would never be able to actually STAY at Disney.

I have loved Disney all my life, and I have very fond memories of waiting in that Jungle Cruise line with sweat pouring off me praying for a breeze to go by, but I have to say I much prefer doing a little planning at the front and staying at my choice of a ton of awesome, relatively affordable resorts, dining at my choice of dozens upon dozens of wonderful restaurants and KNOWING they will have a spot for me when I get there, waiting at the most 20 minutes for anything, ever, etc, etc, etc.

Disney has always been a wonderful vacation, but I have to say I'm loving it more than ever these days!

 

[ArwenMarie]

IMO, the trick to being relaxed is being ok with missing out on some things at WDW because it is just an absolutely massive place in its entirety.

Now FP+ will change things for sure. And a visitor will have to, paradoxically, be even more relaxed if plans change due to things outside of their control (weather, illness, etc). It will be harder to move park days around, for example, and people will have to be ok with that.

So with FP+, as they increase the potential planning, visitors will have to become more easygoing.

 

[delaneyc52]

This is really a great discussion and something we've also thought about over the past couple of years. Like others we have been visiting WDW since '71 and go at least once (mostly twice) per year. We always go off season when it's less crowded and never make any ADR's. Since we are DVC and we rent a car (which is freedom unto itself), if we cannot get into a restaurant, we'll go into Orlando or just make dinner in the villa. So for us, we work at not planning. But also, as others point out, it is truly getting more complicated as the years move on. And I guess that's somewhat ok for planners, but I won't buy into those complications. If I don't get on a particular ride or into a particular restaurant, then so be it, because I've been to most so many times in the past. I still love the resorts,the golf and DTD. We were kind of tied into WDW this year when DVC offered a PAP for a huge discount.....but I'll probably not renew the AP and take a couple of years off --- Hilton Head, Vero Beach. Oh and seriously, when new people ask my advice on going to WDW, I sigh and just give them websites to read. Otherwise they'd need 8 hours and a notebook.

 

[Fairyjen1]

I've only made a few ADR's for our trip in 30 days. We have free dining. Of the 7 TS meals I have made four ADRs for places we really want to eat. Fortunately they seem to be places that aren't as popular.

When I first was planning and mentioned that I was only planning to make some ADR's and do others when I got there I was basically told I would starve. The thing is, there seems to be about 15 or so restaurants everyone wants to eat at and if there are no reservations at those 15 then they say 'There's no where to eat!'.

I get it, if there's somewhere you really want to go (I would like to eat Dinner at BOG and couldn't get an ADR as we decided to go on this trip past the 180 mark). Or if you have children or people who need to eat on a schedule. But we are two adults with park hoppers who are willing to leave the park and go to a resort for a meal. Our plan for days we don't have ADRS is to decide where we want to eat dinner in the morning then go to guest services or use the MDE app to see what reservations are available for later that day. I am re-assured by veterans who also tour this way that I won't starve, lol.

I have also been told this will never work and , while I will have a good time anyway, I will have a BETTER time if I plan down to the minute 6 months out!

I'll write a trip report after to let you know how I did and if I got to eat anything decent!