A solution to walking?

[sethschroeder]

So many things can change over the course of 11 months. Flights, days off work, etc are simple ones. Just because you can make your 1 time reservation right at 11 months and not need to modify it doesn't mean others can do the same.

And that is on you not the membership.

Book at 10 months 29 days if you want the flexibility.

11 months out you are locking in the first date unless you want your dates to go through wait list before you can rebook.

 

[sethschroeder]

Something that I think a lot of people don't seem to understand as well is that if you eliminate walking there is still going to be plenty of availabilty issues for the rooms that are generally walked

Actually no it solves lots of issues. When you cancel 14 days then people with a 7 day waitlist can get all the days at one time instead of having to waitlist 1 day at a time.

It's actually an improvement over the current 1-2 days get released at a time.

 

[JETSDAD]

And that is on you not the membership.

Book at 10 months 29 days if you want the flexibility.

11 months out you are locking in the first date unless you want your dates to go through wait list before you can rebook.

This is just ridiculous. You think walking is a problem but don't see how many more members (non-walkers) would be negatively affected by your rule instead?

 

[sethschroeder]

This is just ridiculous. You thinking walking is a problem but don't see how many more members (non-walkers) would be negatively affected by your rule instead?

So what about those cancelling within 30 days? Should we remove point holding? Why limit booking to 11 months out? What about points lost based on banking rules?

Plenty of restrictions in the system right now.

Again fairly easy book at 10 months and 29 days and you have 100% flexibility. Booking at 11 months gets you the room you want but with restrictions to modifications. No different than points holding on the flip side of the 11 month window.

Heck could even be after 12PM on the 11 month date. For that first date booked.

 

[Sandisw]

Its their job to stop it yes. Abuse of the system should not be allowed "because it's hard to stop".

Sorry the 11 month window is there for a reason.



Actually it doesn't you just don't see that walking can be stopped. Restrictions so the system blocks the majority of members reduces the number of people who can walk. At which point it can be more closely monitored and thus fully stopped as accounts are flagged.

Heck they could already be flagging accounts on number of modifications but they don't seem to do that either.

Give me 30 days and access to their data and we likely can identify a large majority of walkers.

Disney doesn't care and not enough members care because they don't know about it or don't understand it can be stopped if Disney wanted it stopped.

But again, people are booking trips 11 months from check in date. The fact that they change that check in date is not bypassing the 11 month window,

You can say it violates the spirit, but it doesn’t violate the rules as written.

Any rules to the current system that penalizes for changes to trips booked, no matter when IS a big change.

I can not tell you how many trips I have adjusted for next fall already. I have several rooms booked at both BLT and RIV, as well as SSR with no idea what I am going to use, including rooms for the 50th.

I have modified and adjusted a few them too as I discussed dates with my DD but snagged it when I could.

Again, it is not their job to manage who gets the rooms. It is their job to set rules that apply to all...to make sure point charts balance against supply and demand...and make sure they oversee the budget.

Other than CCV, there has not been one resort that did not have every room size available at 11 months at 8 am for every date since I started monitoring For check in September 1st 2021 and on,..with the exception of the glitches that happened outside that window from DVCs actions.

So, not one home resort owner was shut out of booking something, other than CCV studios which is not a product of just walking.

The big picture is that as long as at 11 months people can book something at their home resort...and they can...things don’t need fixing.

 

[Sandisw]

So what about those cancelling within 30 days? Should we remove point holding? Why limit booking to 11 months out? What about points lost based on banking rules?

Plenty of restrictions in the system right now.

Again fairly easy book at 10 months and 29 days and you have 100% flexibility. Booking at 11 months gets you the room you want but with restrictions to modifications. No different than points holding on the flip side of the 11 month window.

Heck could even be after 12PM on the 11 month date. For that first date booked.

So, if someone books at 10 months and 29 days, they can adjust however they want?

Would that just mean that people adjust and walk differently?

For example, instead of starting my walk on October 15th for September 15th, I start that trip September 14th.

Now it was not booked at 11 months...it’s booked like you suggest, and I get to still walk as long as I always stay at 10 months and 29 days.

As you say, there are restrictions to the system....holding points, banking rules, etc. If most owners want to see penalties outside of 31 days for changes in dates made at 11 months, they can certainly let DVCM know.

But, I don’t think anyone can argue that those changes will impact many owners who don’t walk. And, any changes have to be something that is not dependent on some level of subjective action on DVCM reviewing owners accounts and determine someone is or is not walking.

 

[JETSDAD]

We don't even know how much of an affect walking has on the system. Maybe they don't bother to consider any changes because overall it has very little impact. At any given point in time we don't know how many rooms within a category are being walked vs regular reservations. The main issue with the rooms that are most often walked is supply and demand...supply can't be changed, demand can only be through working on point charts. Completely eliminate walking and you still have availability issues and upset owners. Make other changes and you likely have a greater negative impact on owners than walking currently does.

 

[sethschroeder]

So, if someone books at 10 months and 29 days, they can adjust however they want?

Would that just mean that people adjust and walk differently?

It likely would need to be the last day of your reservation is 10 months 29 days not the first.

Basically if any part of your reservation is at 11 months is likely how it would have to be set up.

Really the bigger thing is Disney tracking modifications and flagging accounts regardless of changes. The less people modify a booking that had 11+1 day in it the easier the tracking of those accounts is to look for walkers.

 

[sethschroeder]

In the end all of this is similar to balancing point charts. You don't make just one huge change you make lots of little ones over time.

It will not fully stop it on the first change but you slowly restrict and change things.

 

[Sandisw]

It likely would need to be the last day of your reservation is 10 months 29 days not the first.

Basically if any part of your reservation is at 11 months is likely how it would have to be set up.

Really the bigger thing is Disney tracking modifications and flagging accounts regardless of changes. The less people modify a booking that had 11+1 day in it the easier the tracking of those accounts is to look for walkers.

Well, I definitely don’t agree that DVC gets to flag accounts. Make rules that penalize for changes, but it has to apply to all owners,

As I stated, if anyone from DVC is monitoring, they are going to find that with the exception of a few rooms, no one is getting shut out of booking home resort at 11 months..and per the entire first come, first service nature of the program, you are not guaranteed any date or room size,

Even tonight, anyone booking their home resort 11 months out can book something, including studios at almost all of them and we are almost 12 hours into the window,

 

[bakerworld]

I've never deliberately walked a reservation but I have screwed up my dates and I've had to modify dates due to work considerations. I also grab rooms that I might not use. For instance, we have a cruise booked for April 30 but with what is going on, I also have a room booked for the same dates. If the cruise is cancelled, which I believe is likely, we'll be able to combine room reservations without having to endure the split stay similar to what we just did 2 weeks ago for the same reason.

 

[sethschroeder]

Well, I definitely don’t agree that DVC gets to flag accounts.

The rule would be outlined that walking is not allowed and walking would be defined. The flagging of accounts is to more closely monitor specific accounts the exhibit walking behavior so they can be manually checked.

Its similar to the process in which accounts are reviewed in other circumstances like video games.

No one is getting a pass on new rules like the OP would have put in place. Example if a member changes the name on a reservation 100% of the time within 3 months of check-in that account should be checked for renting out reservations which is not allowed.

 

[sethschroeder]

we'll be able to combine room reservations without having to endure the split stay similar to what we just did 2 weeks ago for the same reason.

Walking isn't about combining reservations though. Walking is always about the cancellation of the starting dates of a reservation length. Typically walking is going to be completed while still attached to the 12 month window as well.

I am outlining in current form with how people are going to walk not if rules were to change.

I would also say any rules Disney would put in place to combat walking would likely have non-written exceptions to them as well if someone were to call. I have heard of 1 time passes for banking deadlines being missed as an example which I don't think is a written rule.

Lots of people had Disney give them exceptions on points expiring because of COVID19 as well and create a policy of sorts for it.

 

[jarestel]

There's always a ton of self-interest based justification for walking from the same group of posters every time this topic comes up. I think most of us will admit that walking is a loophole not a designed feature of the reservation system. "I'm not breaking the rules, I'm just using them to my benefit" is the rationale for walking but that is usually followed by "but don't change the rules because it'll make everything worse". (And of course I'll lose my benefit)

And so on and so forth...

 

[bobbiwoz]

I think only the people who walk think a solution is worse than walking. The walking takes away any chance of other’s booking 11 months from the date they want.

 

[Sandisw]

I think only the people who walk think a solution is worse than walking. The walking takes away any chance of other’s booking 11 months from the date they want.

But as an owner of that resort, am I not entitled to any date during year?

For the record, I don’t walk often but did this year....and only twice to secure dates for my DD. However, people can disagree that it’s not fair, but all owners have a shot at every room at 11 months and are entitled to it.

Again, if you look at the data, there is not one resort except CCV studios, that has had an issue with 11 month bookings for fall 2021.

Not one owner has been shut out of staying at their home resort if they booked at 8 am 11 month window for 2021.

Walking aside, it is not preventing any owner from getting a room at their resort, which is all that one is guaranteed.

But, if people want things changed, and feel it is a better to stop it for no reason, then DVCM should be contacted. I think it makes the system worse. But, some didn’t like it when booking was changed from 11 months from check out to 11 months from check in,

With that, I’m going to leave my thoughts here to prevent from me repeating too often.

 

[Marionnette]

I have to wonder how many rooms are actually affected by walking? My guess is that it’s the usual hard-to-get villas: AKV value and club level, BWV standard studios & 2BR, BLT standard view and (perhaps) CCV studios at Christmas. Is anyone actually walking SSR 2BRs or OKW 1BR villas?

Is it really worth making a punitive rule change that affects ALL members in order to thwart walking at a few rooms? And will making that kind of rule improve availability in those hard-to-get rooms at 11 months? Probably not. You would still see the mad scramble at 8 AM to attempt to snag that elusive room. You will still have the weeping and gnashing of teeth over the fact that someone else’s internet connection was nanoseconds faster.

I have no problem with those who elect to walk a reservation. I follow along behind them and pick up my days at 11 months minus 1 day right now. It has worked out fine for me. But I also realize that I am no more entitled to those rooms than any other owner. If I can’t get my first choice, the second choice is almost always open.

 

[BWoody]

My issue with walking is not that someone is beating anyone else to a hard to get reservation by unfairly gaming the system, but that they are mucking up availability for the dates that they do not want. As an example, someone starts walking at the end of August for a November reservation, but now the family that wants to stay in August and shouldn't have any issues booking now has a problem. Sure, walkers will say just pick up the droppings, but now instead of being the fastest on one day at 8:00 to get a full week, they need to be on 7 days in a row hoping to log on at just the right time each day. We know when the booking window opens, but we do not know when a walker will modify their reservation. It could be every day or it could be once a week. It could be at 9 am or 9 pm. Sure, someone will book whatever droppings are left but it is not fair to that family that now has to fight for multiple days instead of just 1 day because someone wants to stay months after when they want to. That all goes against the spirit of the booking window. The rule is that the window opens at 8 so that is when you should have to fight for a room. If you miss it you miss it but you shouldn't have to hope for 7 days and not know what time you need to be on.

Also, while we only see walking problems in a few categories, I 100% believe that there are actually a bunch of other rooms being walked that don't need to be. I think the knowledge of walking instills fear in people and they are afraid that if they don't do it too they may miss out on what they want even if what they want really doesn't need to be walked. Eventually though, if more and more people learn about walking then more categories may start seeing issues just because of the fear factor while if everyone just stopped walking there wouldn't be an availability issue for that category or date.

Lastly, for the record, I really have no dog in the race. I stay in the middle of the summer and in a category that is normally available at 7 months even at hard to book times.

 

[sethschroeder]

that they are mucking up availability for the dates that they do not want.

Completely and why I think even if walkers held 2 weeks of availability and dropped it all at once it would actually be a positive since waitlists would work correctly.

I will also say I would be happy if you could toggle the option for waitlists to fill partially overtime. So you could reserve a week and if days 1-4 open then you get those dates even if days 5-7 are not free but you keep your spot in line for days 5-7 as well avoiding the need to play the shell game with waitlists on 1 day at a time. Possibly it would have to fill out from a single date as to avoid an issue with people missing a room in the middle.

I think the knowledge of walking instills fear in people and they are afraid that if they don't do it too they may miss out on what they want even if what they want really doesn't need to be walked. Eventually though, if more and more people learn about walking then more categories may start seeing issues just because of the fear factor while if everyone just stopped walking there wouldn't be an availability issue for that category or date.

Completely agree and why I always chime in that this can be stopped if they start making small adjustments now and slowly adjust over time.

 

[KPeterso]

I like to book 10-14 day trips. To do so, I need to be able to modify to add the additional days on the end of my trip. I also like to book a cushion day on each end in case flights make sense a day sooner or a day later. Let's say, I want to go 9/15- 9/27, I would book 9/14 - 9/28 to allow myself the flexibility in case of flights. I drop the extra days as soon as I know what my actual dates are going to be. I fly from CA and cannot buy the airfare before booking. Or have an instance like last year, I wanted to originally fly in on a Friday and then was sent to a conference in CT for Monday-Wednesday that week. Flying in that Friday was just not going to work (and if not for my elderly mother, I might have flown straight from CT to FL) since I needed to do some catch up work before the vacation so it would not be like I was gone 3 full weeks instead of the 2.