Abducted in Plain Sight

[lovin'fl]

I grew up in the 70's and child molestation was something we all knew about. Maybe it wasn't talked about as much as today, but grew I up with "don't take candy from strangers, don't look for anyone's lost dog" warnings and had heard of instances.

That was kind of after Adam Walsh though. Before Adam, it was something to keep hush hush about. And Adam Walsh was what year? (looked it up...1981)

 

[EMom]

True, I was a child in the 70s and I don't remember anyone talking seriously about any type of abuse until I was a teenager.

I don't know. I grew up in a small town, pretty rural. A female relative recently told me of something that happened to in the mid-60s there. A man exposed himself to her (isolated country road) and drove off. She told her parents, and in no time, the police and the DA were on the scene. They never found the guy, but took it seriously. And let's face it, what happened to my relative is nothing compared to Jan's experience.

In the early 70s, my father was deeply disturbed by talk among the dads about a friend of mine and her step-father. My parents had felt uneasy about some things in that family for a while, but thought it was just them. It was mostly little things, nothing terribly obvious. Then my father realized other parents shared those questions. There were several children and teens in that blended family and their friends would visit, then come home with tidbits, which independently, meant little. Add them up and alarm bells sounded. Without going into detail, eventually we all found out the things going on in that family were awful. Even in a small town, many people in the 60s and 70s were capable of having a clue and weren't anywhere near so gullible as Jan's parents claimed to be. Sadly, just as in Jan's case, the mother of my friend was complicit. Yet to this day, her children love her and defend what I consider indefensible.

Through the years, I have learned that most children , even as adults, will excuse parental neglect/abuse. It seems to be a way of saying, "I know they did (or allowed) this terrible thing, but it wasn't really their fault because of XYZ. They loved me and did their best." It's all too common.

 

[EMom]

I should add that what happened to my friend is the reason I absolutely hate women who will do anything to have a man in their lives, even if their children pay the price. They disgust me. My friend's life was ruined because of her mother's need to be some man's....any man's woman. I do not understand how a woman fails to have the primal urge to protect her children, no matter what.

 

[disykat]

No, well before Adam Walsh I knew all about it. On the news, whispered about on the playground, personal safety talked about by parents and teachers. The whole deal. I remember hearing about a rumored incident when I was in 2nd grade and could even tell you the name of the victim. That would have been around 1968.

I think people think back and think everything was safe in the "old days." I remember growing up with most of the same dangers as my kids did. Sex, drugs, stranger danger, even lock downs at school. (escaped convict on the playground when I was in 4th grade.) My Dad remembers things in his childhood as well - has a pretty terrifying story about hiding in the woodshed from the Dillinger Gang. Communication about these things was VERY different, but stuff happened.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

No, well before Adam Walsh I knew all about it. On the news, whispered about on the playground, personal safety talked about by parents and teachers. The whole deal. I remember hearing about a rumored incident when I was in 2nd grade and could even tell you the name of the victim. That would have been around 1968.

I think people think back and think everything was safe in the "old days." I remember growing up with most of the same dangers as my kids did. Sex, drugs, stranger danger, even lock downs at school. (escaped convict on the playground when I was in 4th grade.) My Dad remembers things in his childhood as well - has a pretty terrifying story about hiding in the woodshed from the Dillinger Gang. Communication about these things was VERY different, but stuff happened.

I don't think anyone is saying things didn't happen back then. They absolutely did and were probably more common than they are now that everyone is hyper aware of the possibility. Just that it was handled differently. It wasn't as out in the open as it is now. Like I said earlier, it was more - "Oh, don't leave your sons alone with Uncle Jim" or "No, you can't go over to that friend's house for a sleepover because her step-dad isn't right." At my elementary school we had a janitor that would give us candy, if we were willing to reach in his front pants pocket and fish around for it. He'd have been fired and arrested on the spot if he tried that now.



I remember stranger danger and don't take candy from people in vans, etc. But it was just that they might steal me, no one ever really stated what they might steal me for.

 

[lovin'fl]

I don't think anyone is saying things didn't happen back then. They absolutely did and were probably more common than they are now that everyone is hyper aware of the possibility. Just that it was handled differently. It wasn't as out in the open as it is now. Like I said earlier, it was more - "Oh, don't leave your sons alone with Uncle Jim" or "No, you can't go over to that friend's house for a sleepover because her step-dad isn't right." At my elementary school we had a janitor that would give us candy, if we were willing to reach in his front pants pocket and fish around for it. He'd have been fired and arrested on the spot if he tried that now.



I remember stranger danger and don't take candy from people in vans, etc. But it was just that they might steal me, no one ever really stated what they might steal me for.

Yes. This. I made it a point to tell my twin DDs-20 exactly what could happen.

 

[disykat]

Everyone's experience will obviously differ on this. But 2nd grade (1968) is when I learned what "rape" meant. My kids were much older when they learned that definition.

 

[poooh]

I agree with all of the sentiments here. What also bothers me is that the parents have agreed to be in this documentary so that others can learn, but it seems like they haven't quite learned their lesson either. As the father was talking about his "encounter" with B in the car, he broke down and cried. He said something along the lines of, "That was the day I made the biggest mistake of my life. To break my wife's trust." ........THAT was the biggest mistake of his life? He's still thinking of himself instead of his daughter. There were many, many bigger mistakes that he made.

In the scene where the parents talk about dropping the charges against B so that he wouldn't expose them as cheaters or homosexual, they never flat out admit that they prioritized their image above the safety of their daughter. It was the FBI agent afterwards who summed it up.

The parents admit fault in the movie, but it seems like they still truly do not understand the severity of their mistakes. Maybe it's just a vibe I get, but it's like they still don't realize the scope of all of their actions.

 

[VandVsmama]

I agree with all of the sentiments here. What also bothers me is that the parents have agreed to be in this documentary so that others can learn, but it seems like they haven't quite learned their lesson either. As the father was talking about his "encounter" with B in the car, he broke down and cried. He said something along the lines of, "That was the day I made the biggest mistake of my life. To break my wife's trust." ........THAT was the biggest mistake of his life? He's still thinking of himself instead of his daughter. There were many, many bigger mistakes that he made.

In the scene where the parents talk about dropping the charges against B so that he wouldn't expose them as cheaters or homosexual, they never flat out admit that they prioritized their image above the safety of their daughter. It was the FBI agent afterwards who summed it up.

The parents admit fault in the movie, but it seems like they still truly do not understand the severity of their mistakes. Maybe it's just a vibe I get, but it's like they still don't realize the scope of all of their actions.

Totally. And they came across as a little self absorbed, too.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

I don't know. I grew up in a small town, pretty rural. A female relative recently told me of something that happened to in the mid-60s there. A man exposed himself to her (isolated country road) and drove off. She told her parents, and in no time, the police and the DA were on the scene. They never found the guy, but took it seriously. And let's face it, what happened to my relative is nothing compared to Jan's experience.

In the early 70s, my father was deeply disturbed by talk among the dads about a friend of mine and her step-father. My parents had felt uneasy about some things in that family for a while, but thought it was just them. It was mostly little things, nothing terribly obvious. Then my father realized other parents shared those questions. There were several children and teens in that blended family and their friends would visit, then come home with tidbits, which independently, meant little. Add them up and alarm bells sounded. Without going into detail, eventually we all found out the things going on in that family were awful. Even in a small town, many people in the 60s and 70s were capable of having a clue and weren't anywhere near so gullible as Jan's parents claimed to be. Sadly, just as in Jan's case, the mother of my friend was complicit. Yet to this day, her children love her and defend what I consider indefensible.

Through the years, I have learned that most children , even as adults, will excuse parental neglect/abuse. It seems to be a way of saying, "I know they did (or allowed) this terrible thing, but it wasn't really their fault because of XYZ. They loved me and did their best." It's all too common.

But, what did your father and the other dad's do about this situation? Was it reported or just talked about and their daughters kept away from that particular person. The idea that this is a criminal act is fairly new, it was typically considered to be a family matter and dealt with as such (so was spousal abuse, physical child abuse, etc). People didn't call the police about such things, if someone was inclined to do something, it was usually Dad and Grandpa taking uncle John out behind the barn and beating him half to death and threatening worse if he touched another kid in the family. Even the FBI agent said he'd never heard the word pedophile up until this case.

A co-worker of my mother was nearly killed by her husband in the late 70s. He waited for her at home and stabbed her several times. He was held in jail to see if she'd survive. There was never any talk of him being prosecuted for abuse, or even attempted murder if she survived and sure enough, he was released once it was determined she would live. The talk among her friends and family was quite simply, would her dad or her brother kill him first and how she needed to move away as far and as fast as she could get from him. Everyone knew these things were wrong, there just weren't any laws regarding such things. Yes, they happened, it was just different back then.

 

[EMom]

But, what did your father and the other dad's do about this situation? Was it reported or just talked about and their daughters kept away from that particular person. The idea that this is a criminal act is fairly new, it was typically considered to be a family matter and dealt with as such (so was spousal abuse, physical child abuse, etc). People didn't call the police about such things, if someone was inclined to do something, it was usually Dad and Grandpa taking uncle John out behind the barn and beating him half to death and threatening worse if he touched another kid in the family. Even the FBI agent said he'd never heard the word pedophile up until this case.

A co-worker of my mother was nearly killed by her husband in the late 70s. He waited for her at home and stabbed her several times. He was held in jail to see if she'd survive. There was never any talk of him being prosecuted for abuse, or even attempted murder if she survived and sure enough, he was released once it was determined she would live. The talk among her friends and family was quite simply, would her dad or her brother kill him first and how she needed to move away as far and as fast as she could get from him. Everyone knew these things were wrong, there just weren't any laws regarding such things. Yes, they happened, it was just different back then.

At first, people just had a hinky feeling and suspicions, and you can’t go to the police with that. But in a fairly short time, the police were contacted. There was talk of various charges, but the family closed ranks and shut their mouths. The stepfather and stepbrothers kept quiet for obvious reasons. But the mother kept quiet because her self worth was tied up in belonging to a man.

Listen, if I told you the things that happened in this family, I’d be here all day. They put up a really good facade, though.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

At first, people just had a hinky feeling and suspicions, and you can’t go to the police with that. But in a fairly short time, the police were contacted. There was talk of various charges, but the family closed ranks and shut their mouths. The stepfather and stepbrothers kept quiet for obvious reasons. But the mother kept quiet because her self worth was tied up in belonging to a man.

Listen, if I told you the things that happened in this family, I’d be here all day. They put up a really good facade, though.

I believe you and I think that's probably similar to what happened with the family in the documentary. Image and self worth were more important to them than their daughter's well being. I think the mother wanted B for herself and was willing to sacrifice her daughter to keep him happy and the father was terrified he'd be outed as being gay. That would have absolutely ruined him as a businessman. A small, ultra-religious community like that would have been much more forgiving of the mother's infidelity than they would of homosexuality.

 

[LSUmiss]

I wonder about the mother. Of the two, the father seems to admit that he knew things weren't right and he did get angry when the mother put her on the plane and sent her to B in Jackson Hole. I haven't finished watching yet, but so far I don't get the feeling that the mother is all that remorseful about her role in this. Like maybe she isn't telling the entire story, just the part that makes her look like a victim as well. I wonder when her affair with B really started.

I agree. I feel like she was almost smiling when talking about her affair like it was fond memories she reminiscing about.

 

[VandVsmama]

At the same time, some people really ARE that gullible and stupid and easily manipulated.

I knew a woman once who was married for 13 years to a child molester. The guy molested the neighbor's kid and his own kids. The mom (child molester's wife, but when I met her they were no longer married for obvious reasons) said that her then-husband constructed a secret room off of the garage at their house which would be locked all the time and only he had the key to it. She found pictures of naked children in his stuff one time and confronted about it and stupidly believed his tall tale about how there's nothing wrong with that and "everybody has secrets." Gullible yet again when she would arrive home from work and the house would be dark except for the TV on with her 2 kids home alone watching TV and apparently the husband had disappeared hours prior...no word on where he'd gone or when he'd be back. Still gullible & stupid yet again when he got caught as a peeping tom peering into people's windows. Despite all of these red flags, still this woman did nothing. Still she suspected nothing about the man she shared a bed with every night.

The horrible truth eventually came out from the neighbor girl who told her parents and they, in turn, went to the police. Then the mom & child molester's 2 kids were questioned by the authorities and everyone learned that the predator had been molesting his daughter since she was 3 and had started messing with his son since the son was also a very young age.

That was back in the 1980s. You know what? The guy got to go to weekend jail only. In today's society, he would have been put away for the rest of his life. Just a few months of weekend jail for ruining 3 children's lives and who knows how many others.

This woman then told me that a few years after all of this transpired, she got word that her ex-H was dating a woman with young children. She somehow found a way to contact the woman he was dating and told her about the crimes he'd previously committed. So at least she finally did something right in that department.

What really got me, though, was her attitude. She told this sob story one time...it was very "woe is me, I'm such a victim." She talked about how active she was at her church and how she had a very good friend at church who had kids about her kids same ages. And how they'd get together sometimes to hang out and all that. This mom was flabbergasted and "SO offended" that the church friend suddenly stopped talking to her. I mean, can you BELIEVE the church friend doing that? JUST when this mom needed a friend? She was SO horrible, wasn't she?

The mom got pretty angry with me and very defensive when I told her, "Well, of course she stopped talking to you. Because you had just told her that you were married to a child molester for all of those years, that the child molester was molesting his own kids under your own roof with you in the other room and molesting other kids in the neighborhood AND peeping in people's windows. AND you even told her that you found child porn that he admitted was his and STILL you did nothing about it. If it was me, I'd probably stop talking to you, too, because I'd question your judgement and I'd question your ability as a parent to keep your children safe."

 

[LSUmiss]

I don't know. I grew up in a small town, pretty rural. A female relative recently told me of something that happened to in the mid-60s there. A man exposed himself to her (isolated country road) and drove off. She told her parents, and in no time, the police and the DA were on the scene. They never found the guy, but took it seriously. And let's face it, what happened to my relative is nothing compared to Jan's experience.

In the early 70s, my father was deeply disturbed by talk among the dads about a friend of mine and her step-father. My parents had felt uneasy about some things in that family for a while, but thought it was just them. It was mostly little things, nothing terribly obvious. Then my father realized other parents shared those questions. There were several children and teens in that blended family and their friends would visit, then come home with tidbits, which independently, meant little. Add them up and alarm bells sounded. Without going into detail, eventually we all found out the things going on in that family were awful. Even in a small town, many people in the 60s and 70s were capable of having a clue and weren't anywhere near so gullible as Jan's parents claimed to be. Sadly, just as in Jan's case, the mother of my friend was complicit. Yet to this day, her children love her and defend what I consider indefensible.

Through the years, I have learned that most children , even as adults, will excuse parental neglect/abuse. It seems to be a way of saying, "I know they did (or allowed) this terrible thing, but it wasn't really their fault because of XYZ. They loved me and did their best." It's all too common.

It is common b/c of the nature of the parent/child relationship. A lot of these ppl need to be able to believe this to cope. That’s what perhaps makes it even more disgusting b/c they’re so vulnerable.

 

[LSUmiss]

At the same time, some people really ARE that gullible and stupid and easily manipulated.

I knew a woman once who was married for 13 years to a child molester. The guy molested the neighbor's kid and his own kids. The mom (child molester's wife, but when I met her they were no longer married for obvious reasons) said that her then-husband constructed a secret room off of the garage at their house which would be locked all the time and only he had the key to it. She found pictures of naked children in his stuff one time and confronted about it and stupidly believed his tall tale about how there's nothing wrong with that and "everybody has secrets." Gullible yet again when she would arrive home from work and the house would be dark except for the TV on with her 2 kids home alone watching TV and apparently the husband had disappeared hours prior...no word on where he'd gone or when he'd be back. Still gullible & stupid yet again when he got caught as a peeping tom peering into people's windows. Despite all of these red flags, still this woman did nothing. Still she suspected nothing about the man she shared a bed with every night.

The horrible truth eventually came out from the neighbor girl who told her parents and they, in turn, went to the police. Then the mom & child molester's 2 kids were questioned by the authorities and everyone learned that the predator had been molesting his daughter since she was 3 and had started messing with his son since the son was also a very young age.

That was back in the 1980s. You know what? The guy got to go to weekend jail only. In today's society, he would have been put away for the rest of his life. Just a few months of weekend jail for ruining 3 children's lives and who knows how many others.

This woman then told me that a few years after all of this transpired, she got word that her ex-H was dating a woman with young children. She somehow found a way to contact the woman he was dating and told her about the crimes he'd previously committed. So at least she finally did something right in that department.

What really got me, though, was her attitude. She told this sob story one time...it was very "woe is me, I'm such a victim." She talked about how active she was at her church and how she had a very good friend at church who had kids about her kids same ages. And how they'd get together sometimes to hang out and all that. This mom was flabbergasted and "SO offended" that the church friend suddenly stopped talking to her. I mean, can you BELIEVE the church friend doing that? JUST when this mom needed a friend? She was SO horrible, wasn't she?

The mom got pretty angry with me and very defensive when I told her, "Well, of course she stopped talking to you. Because you had just told her that you were married to a child molester for all of those years, that the child molester was molesting his own kids under your own roof with you in the other room and molesting other kids in the neighborhood AND peeping in people's windows. AND you even told her that you found child porn that he admitted was his and STILL you did nothing about it. If it was me, I'd probably stop talking to you, too, because I'd question your judgement and I'd question your ability as a parent to keep your children safe."

Actually you’d be surprised that many states’ laws are still pretty lenient about this. It depends on the nature of the crime, but if it’s “just” molestation vs something like forcible rape, he would still probably only get a few years & have to register as a sex offender. Disgusting.

 

[HannaBelle]

At my elementary school we had a janitor that would give us candy, if we were willing to reach in his front pants pocket and fish around for it. He'd have been fired and arrested on the spot if he tried that now.

Oh my word!

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

As the father was talking about his "encounter" with B in the car, he broke down and cried. He said something along the lines of, "That was the day I made the biggest mistake of my life. To break my wife's trust." ........THAT was the biggest mistake of his life? He's still thinking of himself instead of his daughter. There were many, many bigger mistakes that he made.

I

He also says that the worst day of his life was when he did (or was going to- can't remember) file for divorce from his wife. That one really stood out to me. It wasn't either of the two times that his young daughter disappeared or when he found out about the horrendous things happening to her. No, it was the day he decided to divorce his wife. That and the mom's crazy long affair with the sicko who was hurting her daughter really sealed it for me on where their priorities as parents were-- and it definitely wasn't their children. And who the heck believes that as part of therapy for being sexually abused as a child that it's a good idea to sleep in the same bed as a neighbor girl while listening to creepy erotic recordings???

 

[lovin'fl]

But, what did your father and the other dad's do about this situation? Was it reported or just talked about and their daughters kept away from that particular person. The idea that this is a criminal act is fairly new, it was typically considered to be a family matter and dealt with as such (so was spousal abuse, physical child abuse, etc). People didn't call the police about such things, if someone was inclined to do something, it was usually Dad and Grandpa taking uncle John out behind the barn and beating him half to death and threatening worse if he touched another kid in the family. Even the FBI agent said he'd never heard the word pedophile up until this case.

A co-worker of my mother was nearly killed by her husband in the late 70s. He waited for her at home and stabbed her several times. He was held in jail to see if she'd survive. There was never any talk of him being prosecuted for abuse, or even attempted murder if she survived and sure enough, he was released once it was determined she would live. The talk among her friends and family was quite simply, would her dad or her brother kill him first and how she needed to move away as far and as fast as she could get from him. Everyone knew these things were wrong, there just weren't any laws regarding such things. Yes, they happened, it was just different back then.

Exactly. The thing I mentioned, up thread...earlier page, that happened to me and LE's response, well my dad went to his house (his parents didn't believe what happened, of course) and my Dad beat the crap out of the guy.

 

[EMom]

The mother talks about “B” like some women talk about the one who got away. Seemed as if she was still crushing, to some extent. That poor kid never stood a chance with those parents.