Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[luv2cheer92]

It took me so long to wrap my head around the "prop gun" adjective. It wasn't a prop gun. It was a gun. A prop gun is rubber and doesn't have a firing mechanism.

Ummm no, that's not how it works. Not even close.

 

[Sarah'sMomfrom PA]

I think that it was on Inside Edition where they showed her on the phone and where she lived in Bullhead City, Arizona and her living conditions certainly didn't look like someone who makes a lot of money. Unfortunately, as the low man on the totem pole on a low budget film, I have a feeling that she is going to take the brunt of the charges. It is just a shame since this could ruin her career (I am not suggesting that she has no responsibility in this shooting...Just my opinion that she is going to take the fall) Either way, this is terrible for someone to live with that you left a child without a mother and a husband without a wife when a second check of the gun could have made all of the difference).

 

[MakiraMarlena]

she is 24 and just starting in her position, she had only one set armorer job previously. She was a rookie, and did a rookie job, and she didn't have assistance because they were cutting corners big time on this production. Hannah does not carry sole responsibility for this occurrence - the assistant director is likely to take a great deal of heat since he was supposed to check the gun, and admits he didn't check it thoroughly before announcing that it was unloaded. as for Alec Baldwin, it still isn't clear what he reasonably believed.

 

[bcla]

I think that it was on Inside Edition where they showed her on the phone and where she lived in Bullhead City, Arizona and her living conditions certainly didn't look like someone who makes a lot of money. Unfortunately, as the low man on the totem pole on a low budget film, I have a feeling that she is going to take the brunt of the charges. It is just a shame since this could ruin her career (I am not suggesting that she has no responsibility in this shooting...Just my opinion that she is going to take the fall) Either way, this is terrible for someone to live with that you left a child without a mother and a husband without a wife when a second check of the gun could have made all of the difference).

Evidence that will work to convict anyone in a trial is going to be hard to come by. The various statements were that there were 3 dummy rounds in the cylinder but 5 when checked later is going to be hard to explain. The armorer claims that she never had or saw any live ammo on set and kept it locked after shooting and during lunch break, but with stories of people shooting these same guns on set.

I could see something where it can be just pled down to some minor negligence charge short of involuntary manslaughter where there's no jail time. I've served as a juror in a criminal trial before, and reasonable doubt was very important in the case.

 

[bcla]

If I were handed a gun, told it was unloaded by a competent person, then pointed at someone and fired killing them, my only reasonable expectation would be criminal charges. It would be tragic but I would be guilty of not exercising a reasonable standard of care for a firearm that resulted in a tragic death. I could have prevented that death by 1) determining myself that the gun was unloaded 2) not pointing it in the direction of another innocent person.

Michael Massee was never charged with a crime in the shooting of Brandon Lee.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Hannah Gutierrez Reed's whole statement contradicts her responsibility as the armorer.

"Safety is Hannah’s number one priority on set," her attorneys said in a statement to the outlet. "Ultimately this set would never have been compromised if live ammo were not introduced. Hannah has no idea where the live rounds came from."

She is blaming being overworked but the fact is she had no business being the armorer on that set.
She insisted she checked the gun for dummies and there were no live rounds in there.
It sounds like she has no idea how to tell the difference between a dummy and a live round.

From here on out we will see the shifting blame game, they will all be throwing eachother under the bus.
There's plenty of blame to go around.

But the AD says he was unsure...three or four rounds? Ultimately if falls on the shooter IMO This may not be standard in Hollywood but it SHOULD be. Production bears a great deal of responsibility too. Coincidentally...

 

[pahoben]

Michael Massee was never charged with a crime in the shooting of Brandon Lee.

Just do a Google search for "involuntary manslaughter-thought the gun was unloaded".

Work safety requirements have advanced considerably since 1994. Additional firearm safety standards were instituted in the film industry after the Brandon Lee tragedy to ensure it didn't happen again and to include a check of the barrel to ensure it was unobstructed. Michael Massee also wasn't the Producer overseeing an unsafe workplace that had already suffered two accidental discharges.

It has been reported that crew members even shouted-has that gun been cleared for use on set. There was no answer only the fatal gun shot. It has been reported that other actors on the set checked guns they were provided multiple times to ensure they were loaded with blanks or unloaded as required by the scene.

I believe it was in the early 90's that criminal liability began being assessed to those with direct oversight responsibility for an unsafe workplace that suffered an accidental fatality. I don't know details of the death of Sarah Jones in Georgia that resulted in jail time for a film Producer. In that case I believe he was imprisoned for putting his crew in danger. In the current case not only was the crew put in unreasonable danger by the Director but he also violated basic firearm safety protocols. Face it, the guy did not act with reasonable care while making this movie and Halyna Hutchins died as a result.

Accidental gun discharges are very rare on film sets and to experience two and then to continue to a fatal third is unfathomable.

 

[bcla]

Just do a Google search for "involuntary manslaughter-thought the gun was unloaded".

Work safety requirements have advanced considerably since 1994. Additional firearm safety standards were instituted in the film industry after the Brandon Lee tragedy to ensure it didn't happen again and to include a check of the barrel to ensure it was unobstructed. Michael Massee also wasn't the Producer overseeing an unsafe workplace that had already suffered two accidental discharges.

It has been reported that crew members even shouted-has that gun been cleared for use on set. There was no answer only the fatal gun shot. It has been reported that other actors on the set checked guns they were provided multiple times to ensure they were loaded with blanks or unloaded as required by the scene.

I believe it was in the early 90's that criminal liability began being assessed to those with direct oversight responsibility for an unsafe workplace that suffered an accidental fatality. I don't know details of the death of Sarah Jones in Georgia that resulted in jail time for a film Producer. In that case I believe he was imprisoned for putting his crew in danger. In the current case not only was the crew put in unreasonable danger by the Director but he also violated basic firearm safety protocols. Face it, the guy did not act with reasonable care while making this movie and Halyna Hutchins died as a result.

Accidental gun discharges are very rare on film sets and to experience two and then to continue to a fatal third is unfathomable.

Again - I believe that the delegation of responsibilities is going to be a factor in how the prosecutors proceed and with which people.

But then again, there's always the possibility that they simply don't charge anyone with a crime. I think that or a plea bargain that leads to no jail time is the most likely outcome in this case.

 

[Kennywood]

It's Hollywood. Of course no one will be charged. They'll simply make another movie out of the whole thing.

 

[jdb in AZ]

It's Hollywood. Of course no one will be charged.

The big name people won't be charged, just the minions.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Again - I believe that the delegation of responsibilities is going to be a factor in how the prosecutors proceed and with which people.

But then again, there's always the possibility that they simply don't charge anyone with a crime. I think that or a plea bargain that leads to no jail time is the most likely outcome in this case.

Absolutely! Although some of us disagree WHO was ultimately responsible for this unnecessary and preventable killing.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

At a party a drunk person pointed a gun at my head. He put it down and people grabbed him. Before someone told me what happened I picked up the gun and was about to shoot my friend in stomach when someone told me the gun was real. It was light and really seemed fake. Talked to it with friend who was a lawyer and they told me Id get manslaughter had things gone worse.
I think if armorer is not giving you the gun that might be enough to change things, especially if gun was known to be being fired live on set. I could see questioning to see who knew about its impropper use.

 

[TLSnell1981]

The big name people won't be charged, just the minions.

Some are walking around acting like they were the victim. It's nauseating.IMO

 

[Sinder]

Accidental gun discharges are very rare on film sets and to experience two and then to continue to a fatal third is unfathomable.

This is what I don't understand. After 2 the week before why were they not checking and double checking when using them for practice or to shoot a scene? If it wasn't clear there was real ammo on that set before those 2 accidental discharges then it was pretty clear after that there was, and that it was being loaded into guns.
If HGR was so concerned about the safety issue after that why in the hell didn't she take a minute out of her time to go over every dummy round to make sure it was really a dummy.
And every single person handling that gun was aware of the other 2, they are all responsible for that poor woman's death.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

they're all responsible, but are they criminally responsible.

The only criminal charge near- parallel I can think of was John Landis and some of his crew on Twilight Zone who were tried for manslaughter after a helicopter accident on set killed three actors (two of them young kids). the helicopter was instructed to hover too close to on-set pyrotechnics, the details are horrible. All of the accused were acquitted. I am kind of waiting to see if any criminal charges come out of this incident at all. Not enough details released about the investigation, which will probably be the case until they decide whether or not to charge anyone.

 

[bcla]

This is what I don't understand. After 2 the week before why were they not checking and double checking when using them for practice or to shoot a scene? If it wasn't clear there was real ammo on that set before those 2 accidental discharges then it was pretty clear after that there was, and that it was being loaded into guns.
If HGR was so concerned about the safety issue after that why in the hell didn't she take a minute out of her time to go over every dummy round to make sure it was really a dummy.
And every single person handling that gun was aware of the other 2, they are all responsible for that poor woman's death.

There's very little on what the "accidental discharges" were. It could have meant that blanks were loaded in a firearm where they were informed that there was nothing except dummy bullets.

 

[Sinder]

There's very little on what the "accidental discharges" were. It could have meant that blanks were loaded in a firearm where they were informed that there was nothing except dummy bullets.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainme.../alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
You are correct I am assuming live rounds due to the wording in the article.
That doesn't change anything I said though.
It was clear mistakes were made when assuming the gun was unloaded just a week or so before the fatal "accidental" discharge. It should be called negligent discharge.

 

[bcla]

There's more on the catalog of the evidence seized during the search.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/docume...rrant-3-return-santa-fe-county-new-mexico.pdf

 

[Pea-n-Me]

There's more on the catalog of the evidence seized during the search.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/docume...rrant-3-return-santa-fe-county-new-mexico.pdf

Well, they sure had plenty of guns and ammo.

 

[Disney Ella]

This is what I don't understand. After 2 the week before why were they not checking and double checking when using them for practice or to shoot a scene? If it wasn't clear there was real ammo on that set before those 2 accidental discharges then it was pretty clear after that there was, and that it was being loaded into guns.
If HGR was so concerned about the safety issue after that why in the hell didn't she take a minute out of her time to go over every dummy round to make sure it was really a dummy.
And every single person handling that gun was aware of the other 2, they are all responsible for that poor woman's death.

There is certainly plenty of blame to go around. After the accidental discharges, you would think they would have started stricter gun safety protocols. Instead, it seems they just decided to ignore the problem.