Americans behaving badly

[DisCopper]

I recently got back from a weekend trip to Disney. Granted, I was only on the compound for 2 days, in the Parks for one, but I didn't witness anyone from another land behaving badly. I did see a couple incidents with Americans behaving badly (in restaurants, mostly).

In my many past visits to WDW, I've witnessed all kinds of horrible things from all kinds of people (American cheerleaders, ball players, Brazilian tour groups, and some particularly nasty French people).

And, for years, we've heard about the "ugly American" traveling overseas. We all know the stereotype. But I had something interesting happen this year: I made a trip to Scandinavia. I visited 8 different countries (take that people who say I go to Disney too much!). Part of the trip was on a cruise ship, where I was exposed to people from all over the world.

Here's what was interesting: there were no "ugly Americans." What I did see was: loud, obnoxious Greeks screaming non-stop in an upscale restaurant (every single night of the cruise), Japanese literally knocking old women down to get on the elevator first, an aggressive, demanding French woman who screamed at me for invading her personal space in line (I was 3 feet away from her in a jam-packed line), Italians pushing a BRIDE out of the way so they could get into a church (she was in full, white wedding gown, and had been married moments before), and many other examples. The Americans were the ones giving up their spot in the elevator for the elderly, smiling and stepping aside so others could take pictures, and basically being seriously polite and respectful. No one pushed, or shoved, or was ill-behaved in any way. It was significant enough that by the end of a month, our group was commenting on it non-stop.

I know when I'm out of the country, I really go out of my way to be polite and respectful (at Disney, I'm in such a happiness zone that I don't get irritated at things). So are we more comfortable (and willing to be nasty) at home? Or is it just Disney (which can obviously be stressful)? Or has the "ugly American" persona been wiped out, or at least reduced?

I'm sure there are all kinds of stories on all sides of this... but I'd like to hear thoughts.

 

[okeydokey]

I think there are rude people and considerate people of every nationality.

 

[SaraJayne]

Ok, I'm not defending the Japanese ladies, but in many Asian cultures, they have no concept of a line like we do here.

So that may explain the mayhem at the elevator.

 

[DeaverTex]

I'm not really seeing any generalizations in DisCopper's post. Note that it doesn't say

The Greeks were loud and obnoxious, screaming in an upscale restaurant.

It says

(I saw)... loud, obnoxious Greeks screaming non-stop in an upscale restaurant.

Meaning that there were Greeks who were loud and obnoxious. Never said that there weren't Greeks who were quiet and fun to be around. Big difference there.

Have a magical day!

 

[manning]

an aggressive, demanding French woman who screamed at me for invading her personal space in line (I was 3 feet away from her in a jam-packed line), polite and respectful (at Disney, I'm in such a happiness zone that I don't .

The french woman was lucky. I have a friend who is crazy enough to look her in the eye and say "you're lucky, today I'm dressed"

 

[skiingfast]

There is a saying that starts, "When in Rome...."

If we could all do that, think of how much better we'd get along when visiting each other.

 

[Michelle67]

Pretty harsh generalizations in your post IMO....clearly I guess it makes you feel better about "Americans" like yourself by posting and commenting like this....

Okay, but...I didn't actually see generalizations about entire cultures, I saw comments about the actions of individual people in specific situations. Clearly I guess your statement about "Americans like yourself" makes you feel superior. Or maybe not, and neither one was a very nice thing to say, huh?

As far as the post goes...my daughter and I had an interesting conversation the other night about things that we have learned about what is and is not considered rude in various cultures. Some things that one culture does to be "polite," another considers "rude." Other things you might not even think about turn out to be huge social faux pas. These sorts of things can be a cultural minefield. Although I've gotta say knocking old women over in your rush to be the first in an elevator is probably universally frowned upon and someone was just being plain rude.

 

[pkondz]

The french woman was lucky. I have a friend who is crazy enough to look her in the eye and say "you're lucky, today I'm dressed"

Okay, so I want to meet your friend!

 

[pogo791]

I think there are rude people and considerate people of every nationality.

I'd go along with this.

Discopper, in your OP you mentioned two examples, Disney (presumably WDW or DL here in the U.S.), and a Scandinavian cruise. Both would provide a skewed sample.

Most of the guests at WDW and DL are Americans, and therefore the odds are that any rude people who stand out would be more likely to be Americans. (And yes, I've read a number of posts complaining about those Brazilian tour groups you mentioned.)

On the Scandinavian cruise, you would obviously be mixing with a far higher percentage of non-Americans, both onboard and at the various stops. Onboard, there would also tend to be a lot of drinking, which could set off more rude behaviour.

Having said that, DW and I have talked now and then about changing stereotypes. In Europe, the talk about "ugly Americans" has pretty much disappeared. During the 1990s, in many tourist areas there was talk about "ugly Russians": a very broad generalization would be that the first Russians who took advantage of perestroika to travel freely in Western Europe were "biznezmen", people who had often made small fortunes in the gray market. Among them were quite a few heavy-drinking and crass men who gave the Russians a bad name. (And have I got quite a few stories for you!) This has changed considerably; nowadays Russians are in fact quite hoped-for visitors in many places, because not only do most of them know how to behave (ahem!) but they have quite a lot of money to spend.

Now, in Europe, the new group attracting some unwanted attention are the Chinese, who in turn are taking advantage in greater numbers of their possibility to travel abroad. Again, many of them try their best to blend in, but different behaviour patterns have resulted in cultural conflicts.

Another thing we've noticed in travelling about in Europe is that different European nationalities have different reputations (check http://alphadesigner.com/project-mapping-stereotypes.html - which also has good stuff on American stereotypes - or http://dailycandor.com/what-europeans-think-of-each-other/ ). Some examples: Germans are widely regarded as stingy, the English, Swedes and Finns as hard-drinking louts (years ago, there was even a Swiss restaurant that posted a sign "No Swedes") and the French (!) as model visitors. (Of course, it depends on who you ask. Restaurant, hotel and shop owners tend to look at spending and tipping patterns, other people at politeness.)

We've also travelled in other regions, and have noticed in the Pacific, for example, that there are a lot of stereotypes about Australian, Japanese and Chinese tourists. I don't doubt a bit that in other regions, other groups have their own reputations.

 

[Bonnie40]

Okay, but...I didn't actually see generalizations about entire cultures, I saw comments about the actions of individual people in specific situations. Clearly I guess your statement about "Americans like yourself" makes you feel superior. Or maybe not, and neither one was a very nice thing to say, huh?

As far as the post goes...my daughter and I had an interesting conversation the other night about things that we have learned about what is and is not considered rude in various cultures. Some things that one culture does to be "polite," another considers "rude." Other things you might not even think about turn out to be huge social faux pas. These sorts of things can be a cultural minefield. Although I've gotta say knocking old women over in your rush to be the first in an elevator is probably universally frowned upon and someone was just being plain rude.

Just to clarify....I made that specific comment because the OP seemed to want to be able to say that because she experienced rude behaviour by Greeks/Italians/etc. that makes her (as an American) better.....I thought that was the whole jist of her post. The entire post just rubbed me the wrong way - enough that as a 'lurker' - I actually posted.....

I guess I'm the only one who read it that way.....

 

[jfranklyn]

We just returned from 12 days at WDW. First, I would argue that at least during the time we were there, the average visitor was NOT American. We commented on it many times, and it was the first time we've ever experienced it. You always see alot of Brits, but this time it was Italians, French, and people from South America. We also noticed much more rude behavior than we have in the past - and unfortunately, it was not from the Americans. I even made a comment to my husband one day of "What happened to the ugly American?".

I had always read on these boards about the Brazillian tour groups - and honestly I had always thought that it wasn't very nice to stereotype a nationality like that. Well, I've changed my tune. We only encountered smaller tour groups - 20 to 30 people - mostly made up of families (not so much the hoards of teens you read about alot, but still being led by the flag lady). But honestly, I have never seen rudeness like this in my life. And in many cases, it almost seems to be caused by oblivion - not so much meanness. They seem oblivious to the needs of others. The need to ALSO be on an organized line, the need to ALSO get to the toaster at the food court, the need to ALSO hear what is being said during a show. It really bothered me this trip. And it wasn't just the brazillians, but it certainly was pervasive throughout their groups.

I actually came home quite disappointed in humanity in general. The Disney people seem to be trying SO hard - it was the guests that really disappointed me.

 

[eddyeddy]

You whine about brazilians behaving badly in the parks on vacations?

What about brazilians behaving badly everywhere everyday around you?