Annual pass replaced with Membership for DL and AP returning by October

[fabfemmeboy]

Yup, I think the AP program over at Disneyland will look much different than what you see at WDW. The amount of APs over there was out of control, it made the parks so busy. And Chapek was quoted talking about how they don't see as much of a financial return from APs there so that of course, plays a part too.

Be curious to see what they do. But I think it's a good sign for WDW folk that they didn't cancel passes during all this even if they stopped new sales. The programs will probably look different with DL being more restricting?

Yeah, but APs make up the majority of people going to DL - and have been for decades now. It's such a cultural difference: Disney World is a destination, a place you take a whole week to go to, most folks stay on-property and spend accordingly. Disneyland guests are much more likely to be locals popping by for a few hours on a weeknight or heading over on a nice Saturday. At most you get people coming from outside the state who hit DL for a day or two as part of a larger LA or SD vacation. Getting rid of APs at Disneyland is going to cut attendance way down, sure...but I doubt it will help improve their revenue stream. Locals will be ticked off that they can't pop by or have to pay a lot more, and non-locals aren't going to be somehow more likely to show up due to a lack of APs in the park.

In either event, I agree it won't have much bearing on what WDW would do necessarily. The pricing, structure, blackout dates, etc. have always been completely different between the two campuses.

 

[New Mouse]

People are always saying there were too many APs at Disneyland to sustain the program...

Ya know, they could have just stopped selling or renewing them well before this. Literally the only people to blame for this is the leadership, including both Chapek and Iger.

There was 0 saying that everyone is entitled to purchase an annual pass, so just limit the supply, problem solved.

 

[Pooh's World]

Yeah, but APs make up the majority of people going to DL - and have been for decades now. It's such a cultural difference: Disney World is a destination, a place you take a whole week to go to, most folks stay on-property and spend accordingly. Disneyland guests are much more likely to be locals popping by for a few hours on a weeknight or heading over on a nice Saturday. At most you get people coming from outside the state who hit DL for a day or two as part of a larger LA or SD vacation. Getting rid of APs at Disneyland is going to cut attendance way down, sure...but I doubt it will help improve their revenue stream. Locals will be ticked off that they can't pop by or have to pay a lot more, and non-locals aren't going to be somehow more likely to show up due to a lack of APs in the park.

In either event, I agree it won't have much bearing on what WDW would do necessarily. The pricing, structure, blackout dates, etc. have always been completely different between the two campuses.

I think they realized as you said that locals just eat at home/or McDonald's, pop in for a couple hours and then go eat at home or McDonald's, thus adding zero to Disney. So on top of the cheap local AP price it was adding nothing while overcrowding the parks.

 

[New Mouse]

I think they realized as you said that locals just eat at home/or McDonald's, pop in for a couple hours and then go eat at home or McDonald's, thus adding zero to Disney. So on top of the cheap local AP price it was adding nothing while overcrowding the parks.

A less crowded park doesnt mean those there will spend more money though.

One would have to assume a more crowded park would encourage people to shop a little more or stay for a table service meal in that case.

 

[fabfemmeboy]

I think they realized as you said that locals just eat at home/or McDonald's, pop in for a couple hours and then go eat at home or McDonald's, thus adding zero to Disney. So on top of the cheap local AP price it was adding nothing while overcrowding the parks.

Right, but as we discovered when SW:GE opened out here...when you tell locals to stay away, literally no one goes to the parks. It was absurd - other than the first month of reservation-only, blackout-dates, etc., Disneyland was a ghost town for months. So is it better to have APs, who pay for the pass and show up and do get at least some food on-property...or have no one at the parks? It's not like there are a ton of people right now sitting at home thinking "gosh, I would love to go to Disneyland but it looks so crowded" who would suddenly change their travel plans if only there were no APs there. They're trying to find ways to nickel and dime the APs out here, that's all it is.

 

[wdw&sonny]

I would think that the AP Black out dates are an easy way for Disney to determine revenue per person and whether the APs increase or decrease overall revenue per day. ??

 

[SuzErwin]

People are always saying there were too many APs at Disneyland to sustain the program...

Ya know, they could have just stopped selling or renewing them well before this. Literally the only people to blame for this is the leadership, including both Chapek and Iger.

There was 0 saying that everyone is entitled to purchase an annual pass, so just limit the supply, problem solved.

They tried limiting who can buy annual passes waaaaay back when DCA opened (they thought DCA was going to be a hit right away - HA!) That did NOT go over well.

They increased prices and eliminated or downgraded tiers multiple, multiple times in the hopes of decreasing the number of APs. Disney would much rather price people out than to tell people "No, not available." But people paid for the APs anyway (of course, Disney also created monthly installment plans to make those high prices seem more affordable ). Then the pandemic and the year-long closure gave them the perfect jumping off place to stop the program.

Personally, I'm fine with the elimination of APs at Disneyland (yes, I was one). The parks were overcrowded and could be unpleasant to walk in all year round. Trying to walk through Adventureland and the Hub entrance to Tomorrowland felt downright dangerous at times. Watching fireworks in the Hub was an exercise in claustrophobia even for people who don't have a problem with small, tight spaces. Locals staked out places to watch parades and fireworks hours ahead of time and then more locals arrived just before the scheduled start and crammed into any possible millimeter. I know too many people who used Disneyland as if it were an after school program for their teens - gave them annual passes, a credit card, and a phone, let them run around. There's nothing special about Disneyland when it's interchangable with the neighborhood park or mall. And the entitlement of some of the APs! I know some cast members who are thrilled the program is being eliminated (the A doesn't stand for "annual" when they talk about them).

People aren't entitled to annual passes, true. So why have them? Continue to sell bundles of admissions, with the more days of admission you buy, the lower the cost of each day. Locals get a discount for buying more days, but now each admission has a specific monetary value instead of being something you use as often as possible to get your maximum money's worth. Introduce a program like Tables in Wonderland so locals can get their dining and/or shopping discount. And there's always Downtown Disney and the hotels for eating, shopping, and catching a glimpse of fireworks without using an admission.

 

[jkh36619]

I could see where you purchase an AP(Membership), which in turn allows you to buy tickets at a deeply discounted rate. Maybe free parking or a merchandise discount as well.

 

[maloned]

Moving to Orlando posted a podcast on this topic today.

 

[Pooh's World]

They tried limiting who can buy annual passes waaaaay back when DCA opened (they thought DCA was going to be a hit right away - HA!) That did NOT go over well.

They increased prices and eliminated or downgraded tiers multiple, multiple times in the hopes of decreasing the number of APs. Disney would much rather price people out than to tell people "No, not available." But people paid for the APs anyway (of course, Disney also created monthly installment plans to make those high prices seem more affordable ). Then the pandemic and the year-long closure gave them the perfect jumping off place to stop the program.

Personally, I'm fine with the elimination of APs at Disneyland (yes, I was one). The parks were overcrowded and could be unpleasant to walk in all year round. Trying to walk through Adventureland and the Hub entrance to Tomorrowland felt downright dangerous at times. Watching fireworks in the Hub was an exercise in claustrophobia even for people who don't have a problem with small, tight spaces. Locals staked out places to watch parades and fireworks hours ahead of time and then more locals arrived just before the scheduled start and crammed into any possible millimeter. I know too many people who used Disneyland as if it were an after school program for their teens - gave them annual passes, a credit card, and a phone, let them run around. There's nothing special about Disneyland when it's interchangable with the neighborhood park or mall. And the entitlement of some of the APs! I know some cast members who are thrilled the program is being eliminated (the A doesn't stand for "annual" when they talk about them).

People aren't entitled to annual passes, true. So why have them? Continue to sell bundles of admissions, with the more days of admission you buy, the lower the cost of each day. Locals get a discount for buying more days, but now each admission has a specific monetary value instead of being something you use as often as possible to get your maximum money's worth. Introduce a program like Tables in Wonderland so locals can get their dining and/or shopping discount. And there's always Downtown Disney and the hotels for eating, shopping, and catching a glimpse of fireworks without using an admission.

Well for someone like me, with Disney being mean, I just went ahead and purchased the much cheaper out of state Universal Annual pass for $350 for 14 months. And am happy flying out to Universal alot. Maybe I'll go to Disney once a year to just check out the new rides but that's it as long as Disney is being greedy and dumb.

 

[SuzErwin]

Well for someone like me, with Disney being mean, I just went ahead and purchased the much cheaper out of state Universal Annual pass for $350 for 14 months. And am happy flying out to Universal alot. Maybe I'll go to Disney once a year to just check out the new rides but that's it as long as Disney is being greedy and dumb.

Disneyland and Walt Disney World are two different beasts. Disneyland guests were 80% local. Walt Disney World is something like 80% out of state guests in a non-pandemic year.

I don’t think it’s greedy and dumb, or mean, to change a program that tended to clog Disneyland and DCA with overly entitled guests who can ruin the experience for others (and aren’t spending THAT much in the parks. It was fairly common for local passholders to arrive just to pack in for fireworks or other evening entertainment, so they weren’t eating and drinking all day. My family certainly wasn’t bringing home souvenirs as we visited every two to six weeks, and that’s fairly low frequency for a local. There‘s only so much room for coffee mugs and one can wear only so many t-shirts, after all). But that‘s just my experience!

Also, eliminating annual passes may actually make park going financially fairer for all guests. Disneyland kept hiking admission prices and introduced dynamic pricing in order to gate control. But with everyone having to pay for an admission each time they visit (thus eliminating the annual passholder mentality of going as frequently as possible to get one’s money’s worth or, “I’ve already spent the money so going to the parks is ‘free’”), they might not raise prices so dramatically to control crowds. Or they will anyway, because, Disney. But the need to do so might be be alleviated.

And if eliminating annual passes means Disneyland doesn’t hit its projected revenue targets, then one better believe the program will back.

I don‘t think WDW APs have much to worry about, at least not in the near term. WDW is a vastly different experience. And Disneyland has drawn a hard, bright line under AP availability - they’re not being sold, period - while WDW is currently offering renewals.

 

[Faithful Raider]

Grew up in LA and used to visit the park all the time with my AP before it was popular. I now live out of state but close enough to drive down, but honestly the AP situation was so absolutely out of control it made me not want to vacation at DL any more. Our last trip in late Sept '19 we spent nearly as much as a WDW would have cost minus airfare and it was simply brutal. We saw all the news about the ghost town DL was in the summer of 2019 but that was a distant memory when we arrived. Didn't help that it was unseasonably HOT and HUMID (some days 90+ degrees and some days 70% humidity). And the afternoon and evening crowds just keep ballooning as more locals show up after work/school. Thank heavens for MaxPass because without it I would have considered our vacation a total waste of time and money.

That last trip solidified to me that DL just wasn't a tourist park any more. There's too little to do other than rides, restaurant options haven't improved much over the years, and it's wall to wall locals. It used to be tolerable, but not even the Disney Magic and my own nostalgia isn't enough to make me go back until the AP/locals issue is fixed at Disneyland. I know lots of people who love Disney in my area who used to go to DL a lot more who just aren't any more because it's simply crazy here out west.

We are currently planning my (and my kids) first vacation to WDW for 2022. At this point I'm waiting to see if they can fix the DL issues but it'll have to be one big WDW trip every few years instead of several small trips to DL a year for now. The elimination of APs in Anaheim is a good start, but waiting to see how their replacement idea pans out before going back to Disneyland for a vacation.

 

[Jrb1979]

Grew up in LA and used to visit the park all the time with my AP before it was popular. I now live out of state but close enough to drive down, but honestly the AP situation was so absolutely out of control it made me not want to vacation at DL any more. Our last trip in late Sept '19 we spent nearly as much as a WDW would have cost minus airfare and it was simply brutal. We saw all the news about the ghost town DL was in the summer of 2019 but that was a distant memory when we arrived. Didn't help that it was unseasonably HOT and HUMID (some days 90+ degrees and some days 70% humidity). And the afternoon and evening crowds just keep ballooning as more locals show up after work/school. Thank heavens for MaxPass because without it I would have considered our vacation a total waste of time and money.

That last trip solidified to me that DL just wasn't a tourist park any more. There's too little to do other than rides, restaurant options haven't improved much over the years, and it's wall to wall locals. It used to be tolerable, but not even the Disney Magic and my own nostalgia isn't enough to make me go back until the AP/locals issue is fixed at Disneyland. I know lots of people who love Disney in my area who used to go to DL a lot more who just aren't any more because it's simply crazy here out west.

We are currently planning my (and my kids) first vacation to WDW for 2022. At this point I'm waiting to see if they can fix the DL issues but it'll have to be one big WDW trip every few years instead of several small trips to DL a year for now. The elimination of APs in Anaheim is a good start, but waiting to see how their replacement idea pans out before going back to Disneyland for a vacation.

Try Knott's. Much better.

 

[StaceyHSD]

The DLR AP situation was a mess so I totally understand why they’re reworking it. They’ve been trying to fix it for years.

However, that doesn’t explain why WDW’s AP program hasn’t started back up. They’re selling them to people whose passes expired during Covid so there is nothing stopping them from selling them again. It’s pretty stupid imo and it’s screwing over DVC and locals.

 

[Pooh's World]

The DLR AP situation was a mess so I totally understand why they’re reworking it. They’ve been trying to fix it for years.

However, that doesn’t explain why WDW’s AP programhasn’t started back up. They’re selling them to people whose passes expired diring Covid so there is nothing stopping them from selling them again. It’s pretty stupid imo and it’s screwing over DVC and locals.

Yeah, Disney is building up alot of bad will.

I have been trying to get the out of state Disney AP since February and they won't let me buy one.

 

[WIll C]

I just got a fairly long survey from Disney about Annual Passes. Not a lot of info, but they were gauging how valuable I thought it was and what the lack of current experiences had on my satisfaction. I told them it was too expensive and the lack of perks would make it a hard choice if I didn't have DVC and Gold pricing. A couple of questions about park passes so I suspect they are seeing how people like them and what would drive them away or not.

 

[OhBother1984]

I just got a fairly long survey from Disney about Annual Passes. Not a lot of info, but they were gauging how valuable I thought it was and what the lack of current experiences had on my satisfaction. I told them it was too expensive and the lack of perks would make it a hard choice if I didn't have DVC and Gold pricing. A couple of questions about park passes so I suspect they are seeing how people like them and what would drive them away or not.

I really think DVC is going to be what keeps them around, the love to sell their DVC resorts and with out APs for them they may end up in trouble with a mass selling of contracts, I know we can't justify our points if we have to pay for 1-3 day tickets every time since we mainly do weekend trips and would have to really think hard about when we go and probably just once a year. For out of state DVC the ability to get Gold passes is really a big selling point for them and why many buy the bare minimum direct to be able to buy them.

 

[Pooh's World]

I really think DVC is going to be what keeps them around, the love to sell their DVC resorts and with out APs for them they may end up in trouble with a mass selling of contracts, I know we can't justify our points if we have to pay for 1-3 day tickets every time since we mainly do weekend trips and would have to really think hard about when we go and probably just once a year. For out of state DVC the ability to get Gold passes is really a big selling point for them and why many buy the bare minimum direct to be able to buy them.

Good point. Does Disneyland have DVCs?

 

[ForWhomTheMouseTolls]

Good point. Does Disneyland have DVCs?

Yes, but much smaller.

 

[OhBother1984]

Good point. Does Disneyland have DVCs?

Yea but only at grand California and it’s super small and very hard to book at if you don’t own and really hard to even buy resale since they go so fast, it won’t cause much of an issue because if they do sell they will be picked up quickly by current owners that want more points or those just want to own there because 7 months is so hard.