Another fight and no one to stop it.

[lowlight]

This is an entitlement thing, I see it all day as I deal with customers all the time. The “well I just need an exception thins ONE time cause I made a miscalculation” is a daily thing….and if you allow that…..you HAVE to understand there are peope who will take advantage of that policy all the time…

I don’t have to get up and offer my seat on a bus to an old lady or pregnant woman, the rules are first come first serve for non handicap seats. I don’t have to hold doors open for people or let people with two items in their cart go ahead of me in the grocery store. I don’t have to zipper merge in traffic or let someone in coming up the on ramp. Imagine how much more terrible this world would be if everyone just blindly followed the rules with no exceptions or compassion. They wrote a book or two about that actually. So what, a few people get one by on you once in awhile? You’ll live. This whole issue stemmed from someone not doing the right thing and letting someone back to their space in line.

 

[mom2rtk]

True but I think it's more that we are so used to having our cell phone with us the thought of not having it with us gives panic, you know that feeling when you can't find your cell phone. I can also understand fear of theft. Panic of not having your cell phone with you IMO would be the primary reason for someone to do what the woman did. If I left my phone in a bag my husband's phone would still work. MDE is on there, or can be downloaded and log in information used. Most visitors have smart phones or access to one in their party.

Were it me? I either would have us all leave the line or been like "welp I'll get it after" because that's how I was raised

And it might not be there by the time you come back out.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And it might not be there by the time you come back out.

Exactly, which is why I said in my follow up comment my cell phone is more valuable than a theme park ride. My decision is either this attraction is more worth getting out of line and going to the back but then having my cell phone or being in that exact position in line is more important than my cell phone.

 

[sheilafri]

One of my take aways from it was how small the extremes of both sides are yet they completely drown out the "moderate majority" and make it seem like every single person is on the far end of one side or the other. I don't see how facts like that add to the divisiveness you speak of.

I feel like I’ve spent a fair amount of time at WDW and have never witnessed a fight. Sensationalism gets views, though, so you hear about it. Do altercations happen? Sure. They are bound to when you put loads of people together in close proximity. Do you constantly need to worry about your physical safety at WDW? No more than in any other public place imho.

 

[xipotec]

I'll agree with you here but frame it like not everyone is malicious or consciously aware about it. There's probably a good number of people who see no issue whatsoever with getting out of line and getting back in it, or having member(s) of a party wait in line while others do other things (bathroom, food, another ride) and then just go on and join but unless a policy explicitly states that's okay it's an assumption on someone's part that is okay because of xyz, the rationales all make sense to them when they think them or say them out loud.

Just as people make rationales that it's NBD to let people pass for whatever reason is given if there even is a reason given but that is one that is hard to speak for everyone, you're only speaking for yourself and how you feel without considering others and how they would feel.

This sorta reminds me of that thread about scooting down in a movie theater for late comers. When met with a no it set off those people's response to be less than nice. It's not quite the same thing but similar enough.

I agree….

These days however, the rationale people use to justify the excursions from the rules can get pretty wild.

I had a woman get loud a few weeks ago because an old lady in front of her was going “too slow” . She thought we should push that lady along because, and I quote “I spend alot more money than her, so I shouldn't have to wait.”

That kinda normal now. Maybe its Covid, personally , I think its people seeing those in power ignoring social and societal norms, and they want to emulate those figures.

The only point I am making is, if you want it to become a non issue, it has to be a hard and fast rule for anyone whom does not have a medical exemption pre approved.

 

[xipotec]

I don’t have to get up and offer my seat on a bus to an old lady or pregnant woman, the rules are first come first serve for non handicap seats. I don’t have to hold doors open for people or let people with two items in their cart go ahead of me in the grocery store. I don’t have to zipper merge in traffic or let someone in coming up the on ramp. Imagine how much more terrible this world would be if everyone just blindly followed the rules with no exceptions or compassion. They wrote a book or two about that actually. So what, a few people get one by on you once in awhile? You’ll live. This whole issue stemmed from someone not doing the right thing and letting someone back to their space in line.

This is from your opinion though, you said “whole issue stemmed from someone not doing the right thing and letting someone back to their space in line.”

So you think thats the right thing to do.

It may shock you to learn alot of people would disagree with you. Same for all the other examples you gave. Its a morality decisions and people have different ideas of whats acceptable. Personally, I agree with you.

But for the sake of discussion, what if the situation was 7 kids getting in line, where one kid was holding a place so those 7 would not have yo wait in line and could go eat ot ride another attraction? Because that happens…..How do you feel about that?

If you are ok with that, Multiply it by 10 so the 10 people in front of you also did it for a total if 70 people moving ahead of you in line, while you waited….

Still feel the same?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I agree….

These days however, the rationale people use to justify the excursions from the rules can get pretty wild.

I had a woman get loud a few weeks ago because an old lady in front of her was going “too slow” . She thought we should push that lady along because, and I quote “I spend alot more money than her, so I shouldn't have to wait.”

That kinda normal now. Maybe its Covid, personally , I think its people seeing those in power ignoring social and societal norms, and they want to emulate those figures.

The only point I am making is, if you want it to become a non issue, it has to be a hard and fast rule for anyone whom does not have a medical exemption pre approved.

Yeah whenever someone says "I paid..." I do cringe. We actually had this conversation last weekend while we were down in Silver Dollar City. One of our DISer friends did say to the effect of yeah I think because Disney costs so much it makes people want to get the very most out of it and it gets to them. And that is true psychologically speaking you want to push to get your money's worth but it can also make for very ugly thoughts that also come out verbally at times.

For comparison's sake for a 2-day ticket with a 1 day unlimited version of their get ahead of the line cost $395.20 for 2 people at SDC (date based so that plays a role in the cost) although a week after we bought our tickets a deal ran that would have saved $20 total. We were there when the heat index was 105+ and SDC is hilly with sometimes steep inclines although it is very shady at the same time. Comparatively it's a fraction of the cost of Disney but it's not nothing either. And 2 of our DISer friends flew up from Orlando so they had the added costs of airfare. And yet we just didn't hear anyone complain, people were not having their tempers flare. The kids were playing so happily on the small sprinkler spots that the employees had hooked up to hoses to help with the heat.

In line with the thread we actually had a few times where we let others go ahead of some of us once we were queued up for the ride at the point where you are next in line to get into the ride vehicle so that the 6 of us could ride together. Interestingly enough it was hard to convince people to do that as there was almost a big hesitancy to agree to be in front of us as if they felt bad for going ahead of us.

I think this existed before Covid, we experienced some stuff at DLR in 2019 and some in WDW in 2017 (although with the hurricane the amount of guests there was quite small and the lines were not long at all) but with all that is going on with Disney trips these days just to go I think it creates a more pressing thing on people add in collectively our social tolerances have probably taken a hit or two during this whole thing.

 

[PinkPixel]

I saw this on another site, sick and disgusted seeing it. I'm more bothered that other kids at Disney had to watch such a disgusting display of bad behavior. First CM didn't show up until around 1.30 minutes, and even then they needed more.

Disney will just try to sweep this under the rug like it didn't happen. When what I think Disney needs to go is make an example and make sure charges are filed, and that both parties are banned for at least 10 years if not for life. They need to show and prove to guests they are safe. After seeing a few of these videos, I'm not sure I feel that Disney is doing enough.

Agree, completely. This kind of thing going on multiple rounds in the middle of Fantasyland wipes away the veneer that maybe Disney has this place under control and safe.

 

[RivShore]

I feel like I’ve spent a fair amount of time at WDW and have never witnessed a fight. Sensationalism gets views, though, so you hear about it. Do altercations happen? Sure. They are bound to when you put loads of people together in close proximity. Do you constantly need to worry about your physical safety at WDW? No more than in any other public place imho.

Very true and I have never witnessed a fight in dozens and dozens of visits. As I mentioned in a previous post, one article said there had been 6 such fights YTD at WDW.

In 6 months, WDW has had something like 4 times the population of NYC come thru the gates, and NYC probably has 6 brawls a day. I think WDW would have impossibly low crime rates if they were to use the same methods cities use to calculate them.

 

[Carol_]

Very true and I have never witnessed a fight in dozens and dozens of visits. As I mentioned in a previous post, one article said there had been 6 such fights YTD at WDW.

In 6 months, WDW has had something like 4 times the population of NYC come thru the gates, and NYC probably has 6 brawls a day. I think WDW would have impossibly low crime rates if they were to use the same methods cities use to calculate them.

NYC doesn’t charge as high an admission fee as WDW.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

NYC doesn’t charge as high an admission fee as WDW.

Clearly you don’t pay NYC taxes!

For me DIS is my happy place to deal with the fact that I need to deal with NYC. The more I hate being there (for work), the more time I spend on these boards and looking at DVC resale.

 

[AustinTink]

I feel like I’ve spent a fair amount of time at WDW and have never witnessed a fight. Sensationalism gets views, though, so you hear about it. Do altercations happen? Sure. They are bound to when you put loads of people together in close proximity. Do you constantly need to worry about your physical safety at WDW? No more than in any other public place imho.

We've been dozens of times as well to both California and Florida. As of now, we have witnessed two. One in DL that I wrote about upthread and one at Hollywood Studios Florida. The Florida one was two sets of teens fighting near the exit to Rock N Roller Coaster. Guess we've just been super unlucky timing wise.

 

[bsmcneil]

I don’t have to get up and offer my seat on a bus to an old lady or pregnant woman, the rules are first come first serve for non handicap seats. I don’t have to hold doors open for people or let people with two items in their cart go ahead of me in the grocery store. I don’t have to zipper merge in traffic or let someone in coming up the on ramp. Imagine how much more terrible this world would be if everyone just blindly followed the rules with no exceptions or compassion. They wrote a book or two about that actually. So what, a few people get one by on you once in awhile? You’ll live. This whole issue stemmed from someone not doing the right thing and letting someone back to their space in line.

I hate to be "that guy" but zipper merging is the law in some states (so you may not "have to" do it as you can choose to break any law - it's still not an issue of individual autonomy in all places).

 

[Jimmy Mouse]

OP here. This thread has some great comments and I think at one point all of us has been frustrated at WDW. I have only witnessed one fight in all my visits and it was quick. The man pushed a woman, the woman's husband or boyfriend hit the guy once. He hit the ground and held his hands up repeating "Sorry, Sorry!" Long hot days, long lines, cranky kids, crappy food or whatever it is can make one have a shorter than normal fuse and at that point the littlest thing can set you off. I have gotten mad a few times but would never hit anyone simply because I enjoy WDW with my family and I would be punishing them in the end. The only time I came close is when a man pushed my then 7yo on her face to get past her as we were waiting in line for Soarin'. He said he was trying to catch his family. I did get in his face and I came really close to knocking him out. Touching my kids or wife will get someone hurt real fast. The good thing is I was able to turn it around and make light of it to cool myself down. When his wife screamed at me saying "He didn't touch your daughter, he doesn't touch our daughters" I looked at her and said "you have no idea what he does when your not around" and the color ran out of her face. I took my daughters hand (both of them) and we walked past them and never looked back. I did tell the CM at the split what happened and pointed out who it was but I'm sure nothing was said to him.

 

[LSUmiss]

Unfortunately, people lie all the time…

And if its 5 people who say that?

All these hypotheticals are silliness. I have been to wdw over 30 times & during every season & pretty much go about every other month & have never experienced such egregious line cutting. Occasionally a person or 2 will ask to pass & I give them the benefit of the doubt that there is a reason they’re “cutting”. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but in the end, it’s a theme park not a bread line. It’ll be ok if those handful of ppl snuck past you by lying. It will not significantly increase your wait times. It’s this perceived injustice that gets ppl all riled up.

 

[LSUmiss]

I will bet you a Mickey bar they don’t touch it with a 10 foot pole. The first time they officially deny line re-entry for someone in a 90 minute queue who has a medical condition or takes a medication that causes them to have to use the restroom frequently they will be sued and lose bigly. Right now they don’t have a stated policy so they can hide behind “the cast member was not acting within policy”, which is why they won’t codify it.

Yep & then they would need to grant more DAS passes & ppl will be all worked up about that too.

 

[LSUmiss]

I do not think any open disagreement is worth being in a fight, stabbed or shot at in DL or any park….BUT…

The only way to stop this sort of issue, Especially around line jumping , is a clear and complete policy, that is enforced.

There can be no lawsuit for any reason if it is a written policy. This is not a disability thing, as they have access, and must make the decision based on their issues if they can make it through the line on time.

Plenty of people with bad backs, knees, anxiety, and all of them have to wait in lines as well, especially if its not to the level that they can get a disability pass…

If they have urinary issues that are that severe, they would certainly qualify for a disability pass.

This is an entitlement thing, I see it all day as I deal with customers all the time. The “well I just need an exception thins ONE time cause I made a miscalculation” is a daily thing….and if you allow that…..you HAVE to understand there are peope who will take advantage of that policy all the time…

and heres the amazing thing, they ALL think they are the exception to the rule….even if they are actually gaming the system.

Again, its all or none….and enforced for it to work.

What about empathy & grace? I don’t know what “system” you’re talking about but most of life is grey & not black or white so hard fast policies are usually not helpful or effective. Who does that benefit? So how do you propose Disney enforce the no leaving & returning to the line policy? There were no CMs around to break up a brawl. Do you think Chapek is gonna let them hire extra CMs to be the line police? Bottom line is if you’re visiting a crowded place you (collective) expect a certain amount of rude behavior & you have to decide if it’s worth it to you to still visit that destination. In a perfect world, it wouldn’t/shouldn’t be like that, but in the real world it is.

 

[pahoben]

I will bet you a Mickey bar they don’t touch it with a 10 foot pole. The first time they officially deny line re-entry for someone in a 90 minute queue who has a medical condition or takes a medication that causes them to have to use the restroom frequently they will be sued and lose bigly. Right now they don’t have a stated policy so they can hide behind “the cast member was not acting within policy”, which is why they won’t codify it.

It depends on how this progresses. If the problem continues to worsen then they will be forced to take action. If it lessens then of course no action. All decisions have plusses and minuses and businesses take decisions attempting to maximize net plusses. If this is an increasing trend then at some point the value of doing something will exceed the expected value of doing nothing. Unfortunately highly publicized videos like this often seem to increase the probability of similar occurences. My expectation is that similar occurrences will increase but maybe they won't.

I do believe where public safety is involved corporations should have clear rules that are enforced as uniformly as possible.

I am not sure exactly how ride downtime right now compares with the historical record at WDW but rides being down also increases general queue stress.

 

[pahoben]

I don’t have to get up and offer my seat on a bus to an old lady or pregnant woman, the rules are first come first serve for non handicap seats. I don’t have to hold doors open for people or let people with two items in their cart go ahead of me in the grocery store. I don’t have to zipper merge in traffic or let someone in coming up the on ramp. Imagine how much more terrible this world would be if everyone just blindly followed the rules with no exceptions or compassion. They wrote a book or two about that actually. So what, a few people get one by on you once in awhile? You’ll live. This whole issue stemmed from someone not doing the right thing and letting someone back to their space in line.

Another way to look at it is as a standard safety issue. I think all of us have noticed an increase in general queue stress through the years at WDW. You now notice more verbal or passive physical resistance to people rejoining or joining their group at a forward line location. When you have an increasing trend in minor issues reasonable to expect more major issues will also be trending.

 

[TLSnell1981]

After re-watching/re-listening to it a few times I could hear it but I can't tell who it's coming from, it really could easily been a bystander. I agree it's not acceptable from anyone and it serves only to ignite tempers not work to calm them down, I just can't be confident who it is coming from.

But still no reason to engage in that situation. Maybe parents today should teach...sticks and stones may break my bone but words will never hurt me.

OP here. This thread has some great comments and I think at one point all of us has been frustrated at WDW. I have only witnessed one fight in all my visits and it was quick. The man pushed a woman, the woman's husband or boyfriend hit the guy once. He hit the ground and held his hands up repeating "Sorry, Sorry!" Long hot days, long lines, cranky kids, crappy food or whatever it is can make one have a shorter than normal fuse and at that point the littlest thing can set you off. I have gotten mad a few times but would never hit anyone simply because I enjoy WDW with my family and I would be punishing them in the end. The only time I came close is when a man pushed my then 7yo on her face to get past her as we were waiting in line for Soarin'. He said he was trying to catch his family. I did get in his face and I came really close to knocking him out. Touching my kids or wife will get someone hurt real fast. The good thing is I was able to turn it around and make light of it to cool myself down. When his wife screamed at me saying "He didn't touch your daughter, he doesn't touch our daughters" I looked at her and said "you have no idea what he does when your not around" and the color ran out of her face. I took my daughters hand (both of them) and we walked past them and never looked back. I did tell the CM at the split what happened and pointed out who it was but I'm sure nothing was said to him.

I thought about something similiar yesterday. If one of our little ones or women had been knocked down or injured as an innocent bystander during that free for all? One of my DSs or DH would've had the offender on the ground. It would likely include a suspension. Although I doubt we would ever return anyways. An injury to a small child can be very very serious...even life threatening. It is an absolute miracle a child or elderly person wasn't injured in that altercation. A very, very scary situation....