Anyone else watching the news for that freak Epstein's Creeper List?

[TheIncredibles!]

I hated when we signed him. Ironic, right, that my NFL team is the Jets. Mostly I was following Ladanian Tomlinson wherever he went. We were also burdened with Tim Tebow.

Get it together guys and give us a good team!!

It’s ok he didn’t play long

 

[sam_gordon]

Yes...from NBC4.com...

"Giuffre also claimed she was pressured into having sex with men in Epstein's social orbit, including Prince Andrew, another unnamed prince, the former New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, former U.S. Sen. George Mitchell, the owner of a large hotel chain and Glenn Dubin, the billionaire hedge fund manager, among others. All of those men said her accounts were fabricated."

Will they, with only one victim's testimony right now, unless corroborated by more docs (which seems to show every day - not sure why they didn't dump the whole case at once)...incredibly doubtful with statute of limitations, the issue of one victim sex assault cases without physical evidence, and the money and power those folks have...

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/...from-jeffrey-epstein-related-lawsuit/3507594/

Thank you.

I would hope investigators are trying to, and have been trying to, find proof of those claims.

 

[tony67]

Not interested in reading it, I am sure horrible thing happened.

I also doubt anyone "important" will be charged with anything no matter how much they deserve it.

If there was something big it would probably come out on a Friday at 5PM, maybe on a holiday weekend, so it will basically get ignored masses.

 

[Jangles]

Perhaps the issue with not reading the released documents, is that one is relying on the media to report and comment, which is particularly concerning because journalists around the world appear to prefer sensationalism, and the legal principle, ‘Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negate’ becomes lost in the muck and the mire. Is it more likely that Prosecutors around the world have independently considered the evidence and decided that there is insufficient evidence to successfully win a criminal prosecution against the myriad of ‘names’, or that Epstein had such immense power that he can posthumously influence Prosecutors worldwide? I suggest the former.

 

[wvjules]

What a freak show the court case describes, it is heartbreaking to read.

I keep needing to take breaks because it is all so grotesque, I wonder how many other people have read it or are in the process of reading it?

Why do you feel the need to read it? If it is so distressing then stop.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Why do you feel the need to read it? If it is so distressing then stop.

Because I have been called a liar too so I understand how important it is for people to be heard by others willing to bear witness.

Saying a thing out loud to take back your power is such a deep suture of deep wounds, it reaches into places nothing else can quite reach. As a result, bearing witness is important and why there are so many victims who have a deep visceral need to be heard.

Unless you have been in a place where your will has been taken away you might not get it, I happen to get it.

 

[wvjules]

Because I have been called a liar too so I understand how important it is for people to be heard by others willing to bear witness.

Saying a thing out loud to take back your power is such a deep suture of deep wounds, it reaches into places nothing else can quite reach. As a result, bearing witness is important and why there are so many victims who have a deep visceral need to be heard.

Unless you have been in a place where your will has been taken away you might not get it, I happen to get it.

Nice of you to presume others' experiences.

 

[gmi3804]

I don't need to read something to empathize and support. Others, apparently, do. Good for them, I guess, but we who don't feel that need aren't unsympathetic or similarly appalled.

 

[cabanafrau]

Suspect a decent number of people started gulping some kool-aid a while back - long before this thread showed up, none for me though, thanks, not a big fan. Enjoy.

Oh totally willing to discuss what I am reading, and why. The why is because many victims need to feel validated and believed to heal, so I hope many people are doing that for them.

My impression, Virginia's delivery was so remote, seemed like a PTSD sort of thing like when Vets talk about war experiences where they were there but they sort of remove themselves. Always sad.

I am not willing to chat about silencing victims because people don't like the implications for whatever their cause might be, that is bat**** crazy, these are adults hurt as kids so just nope, not going to follow crazy into crazyland - so much no like a mountain of no.

The desire of soooooo many to spin this mountain of horror is just beyond my ability to comprehend, it's about the exploitation of kids - the end so if the vibe drifts I am not assisting.

What Kool Aid???? What silencing victims? Personally I could probably attempt to understand what you're saying a bit better if I didn't feel someone was simply ranting from some self implied plinth. I get that this is a sensitive topic for you, but I highly doubt you are the only one commenting or reading bearing scars. Not even everyone who's been through their own experience will absolutely share your mindset, and that's okay. Your perspective is appropriate for your experience, but it's not helpful to shove it down the throats of everyone else and berate them if they don't like the taste and be accused of, I'm not entirely certain what, but it's certainly nothing positive.

Are you suggesting that there are many people in this discussion who accept sexual abuse as an acceptable practice in society? Unfortunately I am aware that it's not impossible there is someone participating who has that type of aberrant belief system. Even more unfortunately I am aware that it's unlikely anyone participating could or would be able to suss them out. Stealth and cunning is kind of a predator thing. I have to believe that the overwhelming majority, extreme overwhelming majority, of people all over the world repudiate this type of abuse. I believe it's among the threads of decency which unites most of humanity, no matter where we live, what we look like, what our belief system is, what our political ideology.

 

[Karin1984]

Perhaps the issue with not reading the released documents, is that one is relying on the media to report and comment, which is particularly concerning because journalists around the world appear to prefer sensationalism

But isnt that the issue with this thread as well? "Freak Epstein Creeper List", that is already pretty sensational. I'll be honest that was what made me click on this thread.

 

[JLTraveling]

OK. I have skimmed this thread, but not read every response in detail. And I have not, and will not, read the list.

But as far as the "they're on the list, they must be guilty" argument...can we step back from Epstein and think about Larry Nasser for a minute? That's the monster who was the US women's gymnastics team doctor and used his position to abuse hundreds of young women.

If some kind of "list" like this was published of all his contacts and associates, pretty much every female gymnast you've ever heard of would be on it. Would people still be jumping to these same conclusions, that any gymnast who hasn't come forward as a victim must be complicit somehow? I kind of doubt it. So why make the assumption that anyone who had anything to do with Epstein was complicit? It seems to me that this "list" is nothing more than a tangled web of all the people he had anything to do with, which for someone that powerful and well-connected would of course be tons of people. And without a doubt, some of them were likely involved, but not all. And those of us who have nothing to do with the case have no clue how to determine who was or wasn't involved, let alone rush to condemn them all. It's up to prosecutors and investigators to untangle the web and prosecute those who should be prosecuted. Innocent until proven guilty.

 

[sam_gordon]

But that’s not what I said .
I either lack the ability to communicate my thoughts properly or I’m being misunderstood or a bit of both but I’m waking away here because that isn’t what I said or what I believe and that sucks .

edited because the rest of it didn’t matter.

It may not be what you believe, but you definitely said the "innocents" should have to explain how they're not guilty...

So let those that are innocent explain how and why they are innocent, as is their right. If an associate of mine is accused of these crimes, I’m singing from the rooftops that I am not involved, cutting all ties and assisting an investigation in any way that I can. So if there is nothing to be found, there is nothing to be found.

But to not release the list and out the predators in case people mistakenly assume innocent people are guilty is absurd. People think wrong things every day. These adults (of considerable means) can defend themselves. Underage girls and boys with no stature or wealth could not protect themselves at all and THEY are what matters here.

Now, I don't have a problem with saying "So and so knew Epstein and flew to the island in the plane." BUT, there will be people who take that simple statement and assume/accuse 'so and so' of being a pedophile. That is not fair IMO and 'so and so' shouldn't HAVE to "explain how and why they are innocent".

 

[TheIncredibles!]

Nice of you to presume others' experiences.

Yeah... I was 12, now 53 and I very very much "get it". I get it so much so that I will NEVER read any details of what anybody else went through willingly. No victim EVER wants to speak the gory details having to relive the experience and no doubt have some flashbacks...let alone have them written down and then opened for public viewing.

It's disturbing.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

It may not be what you believe, but you definitely said the "innocents" should have to explain how they're not guilty...

Now, I don't have a problem with saying "So and so knew Epstein and flew to the island in the plane." BUT, there will be people who take that simple statement and assume/accuse 'so and so' of being a pedophile. That is not fair IMO and 'so and so' shouldn't HAVE to "explain how and why they are innocent".

Plus the more you accuse blindly, the less attention the actual pedophiles get.

 

[Allison]

What Kool Aid????

Thank you. I didn't understand that either.

 

[gmi3804]

Thank you. I didn't understand that either.

"Kool Aid" is a passive-aggressive way of saying "you're wrong and I both can't be bothered with (or even know) why."

 

[sam_gordon]

"Kool Aid" is a passive-aggressive way of saying "you're wrong and I both can't be bothered with (or even know) why."

No. "Drinking the Kool Aid" is supposed to mean one has accepted whatever has been handed to them without questioning the reasons behind it.

It's based on the Jim Jones led mass suicide in 1978.

 

[gmi3804]

No. "Drinking the Kool Aid" is supposed to mean one has accepted whatever has been handed to them without questioning the reasons behind it.

It's based on the Jim Jones led mass suicide in 1978.

Yes, I understand that. People use the phrase so they don't have to explain why they're claiming others have.

 

[Allison]

I know what drinking the kool-aid means, it just doesn't fit into the context here. Unless, the OP is projecting onto the posters here, which is I suspect, what is really going on.

 

[soccerdad72]

No. "Drinking the Kool Aid" is supposed to mean one has accepted whatever has been handed to them without questioning the reasons behind it.

It's based on the Jim Jones led mass suicide in 1978.

More mansplaining