Are funerals changing? (Spin off from church issues thread)

[MrsPete]

or “family grieving privately.”

I like that phrase.

and then a cremation

In my world, more and more people are choosing cremation. When I was younger, I knew literally no one who went that direction.
It's sensible. Consider the decisions /costs you avoid: no plot, no casket, no vault, no headstone, no choosing clothing, no need to hurry and hold the memorial.

My husband and I agreed that as soon as we retired, we'd make our plans. We thought it'd be easier to do while we're both still (relatively for him) healthy /can think of these plans as years and years down the road.

At the top, underlined and with three exclamation marks: NO PUBLICITY. Followed by "no autopsy, it won't bring me back to life" "No embalming" "No services, unless you want graveside services just for your family".

That's all so sensible.

There may be no choice about an autopsy. In Ireland when the cause of death is unknown, and in certain other circumstances, the Coroner is obliged by law to order a post-mortem. The next of kin are not required to give permission or prevent the autopsy.

My state has a law about mandatory cremation if you're under a certain age -- upper 50s? -- and the cause of death isn't completely obvious. I dislike that very much. Do they force the family to pay? I really don't know.

I just checked the coroner's website and the fee for an autopsy is now $3,000!

Yeah, well, coroners are doctors, and the procedure would take several hours. That sounds about right.

I think a lot of elderly people pre-pay for their funeral expenses not just to make it easier on their families, but because the cost can be part of a Medicaid spend down.

https://www.elderlawanswers.com/usi...tract-to-spend-down-assets-for-medicaid-16240

Yeah, my mom just did this for herself. I think they call it pre-need.

I've heard -- and my husband and I intend to do this -- it's smartest to write down your plans, even choose vendors you'd want your family to use. BUT to keep your money in a private account, lest the funeral home go out of business.

 

[_19disnA]

I wonder what happens if you pre-pay for your funeral service and then they go bankrupt/out of business due to mismanagement? I would assume they set aside those funds in some sort of escrow account rather than using it to fund their business.

 

[TippyThomas]

My plan is to donate my body to the medical school and let them take care of me after. Not sure if that is any different than I would have done years ago but that's what will happen now.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I haven't noticed a huge change in those around me other than if the death is in one state and the bulk of people are out of state. There was a recent death summer or spring for my husband's uncle and they decided to not actually do anything because of everyone being out of state. I think maybe pre-covid that might have been different.

 

[ronandannette]

Someone I knew had very little money (had just finished college and started working), when he was tasked with dealing with the sudden death of a relative all by himself. He got the cardboard box, then drove the body himself to the crematorium several hours out of state for cremation, which was the cheapest place he could find. (Sounds like a bad movie, right? ) I think for that, he paid $1400 in its entirety. It was a difficult task, though. I don’t think I’d be up for it. I agree it seems a shame to incinerate a perfectly good (and expensive) casket.

I don't actually think ill of the practice. The only thing in any regard to final arrangements that I'm adamant about is that they are for, and should be at the discretion of the bereaved, not the deceased. I saw many heart-wrenching cases where the family members felt duty-bound to go forward with arrangements that they were not a peace with, for all manner of reasons. Many survivors can be haunted by it and that's sad.

It's a complex subject though and has lots of different sides. For every person who believes they're helping their family by insisting on (and even prepaying for) specific arrangements or insisting on no arrangements at all, there are survivors who would be more comfortable doing something else. On the other hand, some find great comfort in honoring these final wishes. It's such a personal thing at an extremely vulnerable and difficult time. In my opinion, not something that should ever draw criticism from the "peanut gallery", whatever is done.

ETA: One other thing that I've noticed whenever this topic is discussed here on the DIS is that funeral services seem to be a lot more expensive in the States than they generally are here in Canada. This is current pricing from the website of a very well-known and respected funeral home in my (very large) city:

 

[TCRAIG]

U.S. is vastly different. Some questioned when Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia died that there was no autopsy. He was 79. In the U.S., if the family doesn't request an autopsy, and there are no suspicious circumstances and the person is over 59 years of age, a death is presumed to be natural and an autopsy not needed.
How does Ireland deal with people whose religions forbid autopsies?

Not entirely true - at least that wasn’t my experience with my husband - he was well over 59 but there was no visible cause of death and no medical history pointing to a likely cause…so an autopsy was required…maybe there’s different rules by state or county requirements?

 

[bushdianee]

I wonder what happens if you pre-pay for your funeral service and then they go bankrupt/out of business due to mismanagement? I would assume they set aside those funds in some sort of escrow account rather than using it to fund their business.

The money you pay basically is a life insurance policy and can be transferred to another funeral home. If the new home’s rates are higher then the difference would need to be paid.

 

[tvguy]

Not entirely true - at least that wasn’t my experience with my husband - he was well over 59 but there was no visible cause of death and no medical history pointing to a likely cause…so an autopsy was required…maybe there’s different rules by state or county requirements?

Apparently Texas law.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/21/health/antonin-scalia-autopsy.html

 

[barkley]

My state has a law about mandatory cremation if you're under a certain age -- upper 50s? -- and the cause of death isn't completely obvious. I dislike that very much. Do they force the family to pay? I really don't know.

individual state laws regarding the disposition of one's body and who is responsible for the costs associated with it can be very surprising-7 years ago this month i was educated on california law when i (who do not in california) was put on notice by a california county's coroner's office that they had determined my sibling and i had been determined by 'degree of kinship' as being legally responsible for arranging and paying for an estranged relative's remains. we were given 5 days to make arrangements otherwise the coroner's office would make arrangements and we would be referred to the district attorney's office for up to 3x the cost THEY chose to pay and criminal misdemeanor prosecution (ca health and safety code-7100 and 7103). that was also when i learned that unless you know someone's full medical history and can absolutly rule out that they had ever been diagnosed with certain illnesses/diseases you cannot donate remains to 'medical science' or a forensic 'body farm' (i also learned that the neptune society is FAR from the least expensive cremation option).

 

[TwoMisfits]

I've already told my spouse that wakes will not happen at my funeral.

It's a Mass and then food - one half day, total, max. If someone wants to go to the grave for the burial, okay. But you can't expect folks to travel from out of town, go to a funeral, then wait around and go to a burial, and then not feed or even water them (this was my last funeral experience - 8am-2:30pm with no food and water - yeah, not at mine)...

And the food will include allergy-free foods (and vegan ones, etc), b/c yes, I also didn't eat after 2:30pm at the last one, but once the meal situation is happening, you can leave...so I did...and I'd hate for others who are like me and have allergies to feel they have to bail b/c they might pass out instead of being able to hang out with family and friends...

 

[Skywalker3]

Was together with family this weekend, and we were talking about how funerals were changing. One of my cousins, who was very well known in the area, had a very brief graveside service, several months after his passing. Only family and a few friends. Another cousin's husband passed away last year, and they did about 1 hour of visitation/service at the cemetery, before the service. I think it all depends on the family, how much can they bear and handle. For all my previous family funerals in the 70s, and on, it was visitation night before, several hours, then 1-2- hours before the services. We also talked about how many more people are doing cremation instead of burial. I was in my family's hometown this past weekend, where almost all the family are buried, and I made the cemetery tours. been so long. Hard to do with living so far away.

 

[loves to dive]

I live in Georgia so it can vary widely. For the most part, I think they are still pretty traditional. I know the last three I've attended for hubby's grandparents were the usual funeral in the church or funeral home then off to the cemetery for the burial then back to the church or community hall for food. I think they had a viewing for two of them (I don't do viewings) but the last one I went to his granny was cremated and they had the funeral a week or two later so family members from out of state could get there so no viewing. They still had the church service and even had the cemetery thing and buried her remains and the food thing. They are in south Georgia. When both of my parents died we didn't have a service at all. We cremated them. For Daddy about a week after he died some family got together at Mama's house to just get together and months later we (or specifically my brother) scattered his ashes. When Mama died we cremated her, no gathering and months later we (or specifically another brother but I was there) scattered her ashes. Both had in their will to do the cheapest thing and since neither had insurance, I paid for it all. Both were pretty sick for a while before they died, Daddy had lung cancer and Mama had lupus/heart issues, so we (mostly me since I was the executor) felt if someone had wanted to say goodbye they should have visited them when they were sick. I have in my will to do whatever is cheapest and no funeral. We are scuba divers so I've jokingly told hubby I want him to take my ashes on a diving trip and scatter them deep in the ocean (my son dives as well). But I really don't care what they do with them, I'll be dead.

 

[wenrob]

It was changing long before COVID. It’s not just about the money although I’m sure that plays a big part. Why pay thousands of dollars for someone who probably never even knew the deceased to speak about them for a couple of hours when you can all get together at a convenient time and have more meaningful interactions? Traditional funerals in my experience are pretty miserable while getting together with your closest friends and relatives to celebrate a life well lived is cathartic and while a sad occasion can be joyful. I think as older generations pass and younger generations take over we’ll see the funeral industry become almost nonexistent with the exception being very religious people.

 

[White Cat]

I noticed in the north, Canada especially the big 2/3 day viewings and large gatherings at the graveyard are still a thing. Florida not so much. In fact, many do nothing. Or just a service.

 

[wenrob]

We had a close relative die earlier this year. We just had a small family dinner in her honor. No service yet since we plan to hang onto her ashes until her mom passes away. We plan on scattering their ashes at sea when the time comes with nothing religious.

My mom passed December 21, 2021. They had just walked into the airport to board a plane to Hawaii where my stepdad is from when she collapsed and died on the spot. All my life my mom talked about what she wanted right down to the flowers. I’ve never been a fan of pomp and circumstance funerals so I sent my brother about half of what it would cost for a cremation and a plaque. My brother still spent upwards of $8,000 dollars on top of that (for all her wishes she did not plan for it). Lots of us didn’t attend due to holidays, extreme weather and a COVID surge. (Almost impossible to get a flight and car) Flash forward to now. My stepfather passed on Thursday. I have not heard a peep about services and I suspect I won’t. My guess is that they will have him cremated and spend the money they would have on all the pomp and circumstance to take them both to Hawaii to spread their ashes.

By law in most jurisdictions, the "minimum" cremation container is a cardboard box, which is included in the price of a basic cremation. You'd be astounded at the number of people who choose to purchase a casket costing several thousand, just to incinerate. And that's with no prompting, or sales pressure at all. They seem to feel, completely of their own volition, that it's needed for the sake of dignity (or whatever).

When my grandmother died the funeral home tried to shame us into getting a casket vs the cardboard box. To that we responded she’d haunt us for spending unnecessary money. She had already prepaid and we ended up getting money back. She would have been proud.

To piggyback off of this a little bit. For those that don’t know you don’t have to go with the funeral home’s cremation and all the “care and attendance” fees. You can call the city and they will do it for a fraction of the cost and a transportation fee. I had to pry this out of the service planners when my brother in law died because they sure weren’t going to volunteer the information. In our case we had to make the arrangements ourselves but it was $1,250 with transport fee vs $3,000.

eta: If you find yourself having to make arrangements try to take someone who is not as emotionally involved or cannot be emotionally manipulated. Not going with top tier or “the best” doesn’t mean you don’t care for your loved one but they sure go out of their way to make you feel that way.

On autopsies I think it probably varies by state/county. BIL was only 53 and he fell in the garage hitting his head on concrete. There were injuries so therefore required. I don’t think my sister had to pay, it was part of an investigation. I could be wrong though.

 

[longboard55]

We had a friend who had a son die recently, 50 with kids and a wife. It was a shock and they went full deluxe including pigeons. To be fair they probably were in shock and got sold. Just what a waste of money I am sure the wife could use. You can drop ashes out in the ocean for under $1000

 

[wenrob]

We had a friend who had a son die recently, 50 with kids and a wife. It was a shock and they went full deluxe including pigeons. To be fair they probably were in shock and got sold. Just what a waste of money I am sure the wife could use. You can drop ashes out in the ocean for under $1000

This is why I say take someone not as emotionally invested or (like me) cannot be swayed by emotional manipulation. I have not known anyone who has experienced the sudden death of a loved one who hasn’t said they barely remember the days surrounding it or were in a fog. Not a great time to be making possibly large financial decisions. I could not talk my sister out of financing a bigger “better” plaque even though we had a smaller one included covered. As far as I know she never paid it off so now he doesn’t have one at all.

 

[sk!mom]

I don't actually think ill of the practice. The only thing in any regard to final arrangements that I'm adamant about is that they are for, and should be at the discretion of the bereaved, not the deceased. I saw many heart-wrenching cases where the family members felt duty-bound to go forward with arrangements that they were not a peace with, for all manner of reasons. Many survivors can be haunted by it and that's sad.

It's a complex subject though and has lots of different sides. For every person who believes they're helping their family by insisting on (and even prepaying for) specific arrangements or insisting on no arrangements at all, there are survivors who would be more comfortable doing something else. On the other hand, some find great comfort in honoring these final wishes. It's such a personal thing at an extremely vulnerable and difficult time. In my opinion, not something that should ever draw criticism from the "peanut gallery", whatever is done.

ETA: One other thing that I've noticed whenever this topic is discussed here on the DIS is that funeral services seem to be a lot more expensive in the States than they generally are here in Canada. This is current pricing from the website of a very well-known and respected funeral home in my (very large) city:
View attachment 807716

I agree with not expressing too many wishes. It can put such a burden on whomever is handling the passing.

I have told my DH to cremate and then do whatever feels comforting to him. He knows that I wouldn’t want a minister sermonizing but if he does…I won’t haunt him.

 

[sk!mom]

This is why I say take someone not as emotionally invested or (like me) cannot be swayed by emotional manipulation. I have not known anyone who has experienced the sudden death of a loved one who hasn’t said they barely remember the days surrounding it or were in a fog. Not a great time to be making possibly large financial decisions. I could not talk my sister out of financing a bigger “better” plaque even though we had a smaller one included covered. As far as I know she never paid it off so now he doesn’t have one at all.

Very good advice. This was my role when DH’s dad passed. I helped him do what felt like he honored his dad but did not get manipulated into overspending.

 

[TCRAIG]

Basic cremation in our town is @4K.