Article: Song of the South

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I never said that slavery was zippidy do dah. However, should we remove everything that offends anyone? Should we burn books?

This is arguing to the extreme. Why can't the solution be exactly what it is - that there are some things which tend to provoke heated controversy in this world and really have no amicable means of resolution. So...............leave the artifacts for the collectors and the historians.
 
>>What I said was that there are people out there who ARE old south revisionists who believe in a glorified fancifal version of an old south that never was. <<

Fine, but you went further, implying (perhaps unintentionally) that getting Song Of The South back into distribution is somehow part of their larger "the South will rise again" agenda (and as a result, the film should NOT be put back into retail print). If that's the case, then again, I don't understand why we aren't also censoring Gone With The Wind, Amos and Andy, etc.

Gosh, I'm glad that you gave me the benefit of the doubt and put the "unintentionally" in there. I'm sorry, but can you point out to me where I implied that there was this larger agenda? What I said was:

Don't think for a minute that the old south revisionists don't see this film as a portrayal of things the way they ought to be.

What I was talking about was people watching this movie with their children and the type of take away messages they would want their children to have; "this is the way things ought to be."

And speaking of larger agendas, man, I don't know how to even address the rest of your post - "Totalitarian Left"? "THEY?" What the heck are you talking about, some sort of vast left wing conspiracy to keep SOTS off the shelves? Good greif.

You say:

That totalitarian mentality is also readily apparent here in posts that repeatedly refer to so-called "outdated stereotypes" (which is just code for "we want re-write history to meet our 20th century norms; the only history that is appropriate is our revisionist version ") and the related demands that any "new" release of Song Of The South must include so-called "teaching materials" for the young (which is code for "our propoganda is necessary, because we don't trust families to raise their children properly.")

Holy cow. I said those things, so I guess I am a part of this vast left wing conspiracy of totalitarianism. Well that is something new for me.

OK, let's break this down. I said that SOTS contains "outdated stereotypes." You said that is "CODE" for "wanting to re-write history to meet our 20th century norms." So, are you going to say that you DO NOT believe that SOTS contains "outdated stereotypes"? Please think about this very simple question and answer it.

I meant what I said and I said what I meant - I think SOTS has outdated stereotypes in it, and this isn't a code for something else. I don't need any "code" and I didn't use any. It is just that simple. As far as this "code for 20th century norms." First of all, those were the 20th century norms presented in SOTS, this is the 21st century we are living in now. OK. Second of all. Do you really want 21st century preschoolers - who live in a world of 21st century norms - to be presented with a film based on 1940s views of race relations (and please answer that question above about whether you think those views are outdated or not) - with no educational material concerning the media-stereotypes at the time (the 1940s) or the civil rights movement that happened between the 1940s and the current day?

And then the "we don't trust parents to raise children." I'm not sure who the we is, but since you are talking about this "CODE" that you are detecting in what I said, I'll have to say "I". Do you think it is a bad idea to include educational and historical tools as a way to ASSIST parents? Why on earth would it be a bad idea to include this information as a tool for parents to use? PLEASE, PLEASE explain that to me - I would really appreciate and enjoy that type of tool, and I can't understand why any parent wouldn't want such an added bonus, so please explain it to me.

And why would a documentary about media representations of race relations in the 1940s and the history of the civil rights movement since then be considered by you as "propaganda" Please, oh please, explain that.

"Propaganda." I don't know what your real issue is here, but all this talk about totalitarianims and propaganda is, frankly, bizarre. We are talking about Disney's decision not to release a film, at least at this point in time. They are a company. They will release material that they think it is in the best interest of the company to release. It is really that simple, you don't need bizarre conspiracy theories to explain it, and parsimony is usually the most logical approach.

DR
 
I never said that slavery was zippidy do dah. However, should we remove everything that offends anyone? Should we burn books?

Casualobserver,
I don't believe that anyone has called for destroying every copy or print of SOTS or even of permanently banning it. This isn't censorship, it is Disney, a corporation, deciding what is in their best corporate interest to release at the present time. I think I have said quite clearly on this very thread that I think that there could be a lot of great educational opportunities in this film. I have also said that I am not convinced that we are in a point in our society where this is the best time for such opportunities. Ultimately, it is Disney's decision about what is best for the company, but again, this film is readily available to anyone who is interested enough in it to pursue it.

Speaking of book burning though, very recently there were groups burning Harry Potter boks and asking it to be removed from school libraries. I remember back in high school there were some books back in the room behind the desk that kids had to have parental permission to puruse - that type of approach isn't censureship or book burning, does that bother you? The flip side, should we just let kids have open access to playboys and penthouses?
DR
 
>>leave the artifacts for the collectors and the historians.<<

Fine. Then demand that MGM/UA stop selling Gone With The Wind and tell Ted Turner to never broadcast it again.

The screaming hypocrisy of saying Song Of The South is some sort of problematic, controversial "artifact" and that Gone With Wind isn't just doesn't stand up.

How so? Well, some here are implying that GWTW is "different" because it is famous and a so-called "adult" film.

The fact it is so well known makes it immune from censorship? WHY? It has "too much intertia?" It won "best film?" Fine, but if it is so hugely problematic, crammed with horrific stereotypes, why would that "fame" alone be enough to stop the political correctness censors? The lack of any argument even attempting to explain that this thread is blatantly evident.

As for implications that there is some sort of meaningful attempt out there by leftos to "ban" GWTW, that's absolutely ridiculous. Search to your heart's content on-line or elsewhere, you won't find any substantive efforts to boycott or ban the movie (or for that matter, even much discussion that even goes in that direction). Or stated differently, you're not going to build much traction arguing that GWTW is "hugely controversial."

Secondly, I do not all all agree with the idea that "GWTW has never been pushed as a childrens or family film." I first saw it in 1968 with my mother when it was re-released for theatrical showings. At that time, it was heavily, HEAVILY promoted as a "family classic," and the theatre I saw it in was PACKED with kids. The networks have REPEATEDLY run it during Sunday night prime time, THE ground zero of family TV in this nation.

Again, the only reason SOTS has been censored is because the left saw the producer (Disney) as an easy, obvious target The producers of GWTW were much less easy to go after, which is why the left has waffled on that one.
 
Then demand that MGM/UA stop selling Gone With The Wind and tell Ted Turner to never broadcast it again.

You're searching for a level of equitable balance which doesn't exist my friend. This will never change. Every individual is unique in opinion and companies do not always operate under one another's policy. I've already stated my feelings concerning GWTW and don't need to lobby for anything. Equality will never be achieved - there are too many personal agendas to be satisfied.

Again, the only reason this particular film has been censored is because the left saw the producer (Disney) as an easy, obvious target.

Maybe. And if so, then SOTS represents how for every socially just cause lost in this country someone actually managed somewhat of a victory. Liberal or Conservative.
 
As for implications that there is some sort of meaningful attempt out there by leftos to "ban" GWTW, that's absolutely ridiculous. Search to your heart's content on-line or elsewhere, you won't find any substantive efforts to boycott or ban the movie (or for that matter, even much discussion that even goes in that direction). Or stated differently, you're not going to build much traction arguing that GWTW is "hugely controversial."

1. It doesn't really matter. Despite your straw man attempts, the release of GWTW and SOTS have no meaning to each other, as has been pointed out by several posters.

2. YOU are the one who talks about "leftos" and conspiracies, not anyone else. I believe what was said was that there was contraversy about the film.

3. There has been controversary about GWTW since it was released up until today. Try using the term "the wind done gone" in your search engine. Feminists have criticized the movie because it depicts females as submissives who fall in love with their rapists. African-Americans have criticized the depiction in the film.

4. YOU are the one who is trying to bring up some kind of story about this vast left wing conspiracy that is somehow forcing this easy target of Disney to "censor" films. Can you find any evidence of that?

5. Again, it doesn't matter and the comparison is bogus. But for you benefit, I will use your own words against you. You noted that the depiction of the race relations in GWTW were far worse than those in SOTS, for example, in GWTW a white person hits a slave. Do you think that this depiction might be a little more realistic of how things really were, rather than in SOTS were the darkies were happy serving the whites for no apparent reward and under no apparent threat, but merely because that was their happy go lucky lot in life to serve the white folks?

Mike. You've been asked several direct questions in this thread. Why don't you drop this GWTW straw man and answer some of them.

DR
 
It’s always interesting to note that censorship is one of those “person” evils – you know it’s always wrong in the third person (“you’re censoring this wonderful piece of art you tyrant”) but always so noble in the first person (“I’m protecting the precious minds of these little children”).

I always hear that Song of the South should be released because it’s a wonderful uplifting movie that uses the Uncle Remus tales to teach children such great life lessons – it’s an important work of art that must be seen.

But when asked about which lessons the live action scenes teach, people answer back that it doesn’t teach anything, it’s just a kid’s movie, it’s just entertainment, that movies that teach are just left-wing propaganda and we can just appreciate Song of the South just as it is.


Films matter, films are important. All films – all stories – teach. All of them. Stories are the way we, as humans, learn and the way we experience the world beyond what we can touch. Some stories do it subtlety, some do it without realizing it, some do it too overtly – but it’s always there. People are always affected but what they see, by what they hear and what they feel. Film is simply a unique way of having that experience. And just as children’s fairy tales have a moral, or an adult’s novel has theme – each film has one as well.

Because people, especially children, are affected by a story there is a responsibility that falls onto both the filmmaker and onto the parents. Neither group should take it lightly (although both often do); both should act in ways they think are appropriate.

Yes, it’s very easy to worry about the trivialities of these important issues. For every pressure group protesting anti-Japanese attitudes in Pearl Habor and demanding the dialogue refer to it as a “surprise attack” instead of a “sneak attack”, there is someone writing hate mail to Disney because complete devotion to Jesus is the only way to have a happy family, a demon possessed alien named ‘Stitch’ is an evil plot to subvert the minds of children into thinking otherwise. Simple minds seek simple answers – dealing with trivial issues is an easy way to avoid having to deal with the greater truths.

There are no absolute rules that work. For every case someone screams “it’s art and must be seen” there’s a film like Leni Riefenstahl’s Oylmpia. For every film where “kids know the difference between what’s real and what isn’t) there’s an X-Men 2 example (the first rumors are already coming of children stabbing each other, just like a character does in the movie). For every cry of this is “just modern political correctness”, go back and read the original fairy tales and see how much Walt changed to fit the morals and themes to modern American beliefs. And for every cry of “it’s just entertainment, it doesn’t teach anything” – I have to answer then if it lacks value, why show it to your children in the first place?

Song of the South is a unique film with a host of unique circumstances. Simplistic answers like keeping the film locked deep in the vault fails to address those issues just as much as shoving it into WalMart does. Perhaps instead of wailing away against vague and easy targets like “correctness” and “sensitivity” – we should be wailing against Disney’s management for lacking the intelligence and the courage to properly put this film in context.
 
>>leave the artifacts for the collectors and the historians.<<

If one thinks that the only demand for "underground" copies of Song Of the South comes from some tiny niche of quirky "collectors and historians," they are ignoring reality.

There is existing demand for this movie from THOUSANDS of parents and grandparents who want to share it with their children. Want proof? Here is is:

First, chew on these comments about the film (mostly from parents) on the Internet Movie Database:

http://us.imdb.com/CommentsShow?0038969


Over 30,000 people have signed a petition asking Disney to re-release the film:

http://www.uncleremuspages.com/dpp.html

The Disney web sites invite visitors to vote for their favorite Disney films. Regarding Song of the South, the results show:

- it currently ranked as #1 in the voting for favorite Disney animated film

http://studio.go.com/cgi-bin/quiz/quiz.cgi?pass=1&def=moviefinder_vote_animated&Q1=48

- it currently ranked as #2 in the voting for favorite Disney musical

http://studio.go.com/cgi-bin/quiz/quiz.cgi?pass=1&def=moviefinder_vote_musicals&Q1=28

and

- Brer Rabbit currently ranked #1 in voting for favorite Disney animated character

http://studio.go.com/cgi-bin/quiz/quiz.cgi?pass=1&def=moviefinder_vote_animclassic&Q1=3

Quite an accomplishment for a film Disney has hidden domestically for almost 15 years, eh?

By the way, is the politically correct crowd aware of the fact that Song of the South IS still being sold by Disney in Europe? Specifically, in Germany (proof below):

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004RM2X/songofthesout-20/028-2464244-0614149

My, I guess it's O.K. to market those "horrific outdated stereotypes" to Germans, but not Americans. Then again, we're so much more "enlightened" than those barbaric Europeans......;)
 
So, it's O.K. for Amazon to currently distribute Hitler's infamous book (in the interest of "freedom of speech"), but not for Disney to re-release a beloved family film.

Yep, Hitler's book is no-risk. No 14 year old suburban kid could ever possibly be influenced by it. Nah.....Columbine had nothing to do with teens being influenced by hate speech....

...but Heaven help us if a 7 year old ever watches that horrific, bigoted "Song Of The South." What a risk to society...
 
Please go back and look at the listing. It's not a book, it's a film. One that's currently on sale because of its artisitc merits. Exactly the same as you wish Song of the South released.

In fact, go back and read the quotes from the reveiws. This is the lead paragraphs from Amazon's own review:

"Triumph of the Will is one of the most important films ever made. Not because it documents evil--more watchable examples are being made today. And not as a historical example of blind propaganda--those (much shorter) movies are merely laughable now. No, Riefenstahl's masterpiece--and it is a masterpiece, politics aside--combines the strengths of documentary and propaganda into a single, overwhelmingly powerful visual force."

And while you want to pooh-pooh this - you will be arrested if you bring you a copy of this movie into Germany today. Perhaps someone still realizes that images still have impact. For one nation it may be a madman leading a political rally, for another it may be one group of people inaccuractly protrayed as being "happy and carefree" (ignoring the fact they are owned as property).

Be careful the evil you defend; your defense can be just as easily used to promote another evil (or blind you to the ones that exist in front of your face).
 
Over 30,000 people have signed a petition asking Disney to re-release the film:

I'm sure the lobbyists for black americans can petition far greater numbers than that. If you want to really make an honest move toward this cause than you should consider providing the facts and information on how many people are against this issue as well.
 
IMHO

Banning anything rarely works.

Banning something because they say I need to be protected from it makes me reach for my sidearm.

Watching Song of the South is not going to create apartheid any more than watching Triumph of the Will will create the Fourth Reich.

When I swore to uphold the constitution I wasn't given the opportunity to chose whose freedom of speech I would be protecting.

There have been many movies that I have had to "explain" to my children, at least with Song of the South I wouldn't be embarrassed...
 
Banning something because they say I need to be protected from it makes me reach for my sidearm.

When I swore to uphold the constitution I wasn't given the opportunity to chose whose freedom of speech I would be protecting.

Absolutely. This is exactly the position the child porn industry thrives on. What would your response be?
 
Originally posted by crusader
Absolutely. This is exactly the position the child porn industry thrives on. What would your response be?

Crusader, I'm hoping you posted that just to stir things up. Freedom of Speech does not include the freedom to abuse others. I can't go around hitting people with a 2x4 and make the case that the blows from the 2x4 were "speech" and protected and more than people can sexually abuse children and call it speech.

Freedom of Speech does include burning the flag which is extremely offensive to many people - including those who have lost fathers/brothers/sisters/uncles defending it. That's okay, but showing a film set close to the times of the Civil War with a jovial black man that is not filled with hatred for white people and helps a white child is vile and disgusting.

People are going to be sensitive and over-sensitive about any number of things. Our country has become one where people are just waiting for the chance to join the offended, and become a victim of something. Instead, all of us grown-ups should learn to act like grown-ups and quit acting like 5 year olds on the playground where "Jimmy called me a _____" is a huge offense. I can put SOTS into perspective for my daughter (who's hero is MLK Jr.).

As another poster wrote, if the media says that movies/video games/music videos are not bringing down society, then why are they afraid that a film like SOTS is going to turn us into a slave state/free state country. I'm sorry, but enjoying B're Rabbit just doesn't turn anyone into a card-carrying KKK member. If it did, then I better stop watching Night of the Living Dead before I decide to become a cannibal Zombie. Media can have an effect on children through saturation. Kids today are far more sexualized than during my childhood because television and movies are far more sexualized. SOTS falls into a different category. If there were even a fraction of a percent of shows and videos and games that portrayed slavery as a good thing, then I would be on the side of holding SOTS back because it would be helping the cause. However, the opposite is true and SOTS is not going to turn kids into Klan members. In fact, it probably would help the cause of blacks in America because it would show how wrong-thinking people were at the time. People today in American recognize injustice. We helped end Apartheid. Why? Because it was wrong, completely wrong.

To hide SOTS from American audiences because it might offend people is to cater to the lowest common denominator. Those who will get on talk shows and paint Disney in the worst way are shallow people who are looking for publicity - the Victicrats.


Casual Observer
 
I'm not kidding if you are going to take an extremist position on an issue.

This is not about censorship - it is about marketing something which fuels negativity. Nobody is being denied their freedom here.
 
You've got to be kidding..
I'm sure he is not.......................and it is a valid question. There is freedom to produce that, if done in accordance with the law, and anyone who wants to uphold the freedom of speech or expression would have to support it in that case as well, would they not? Didn't Larry Flint prove that (I forget how the movie ended, or at least the court case)?

I'll go out on a limb and say that one of 'those' movies would be an embarrassing one to "explain" ;).
 
"but Heaven help us if a 7 year old ever watches that horrific, bigoted "Song Of The South." What a risk to society..."

Can I infer from your statement, allbeit sarcastic, that you DO believe partits of this film to be horrific and bigoted?

If not, do you then believe it to be an accurate portrayal of african americans during that time period?

My other question is this - how would you feel watching this film if you were an african american child? Do you think it would be uncomfortable?

Again I believe the comparison of other period films is irrelevant to this argument as Disney has no control over them, but I can say that I have personally signed petitions against the distribution of GWTW when I was in college. I'm not sure why you think that it never had any controversy around it. But then again sometimes people find it easy to be unaware of things they don't care about.
 
>>I'm sure the lobbyists for black americans (SIC) can petition far greater numbers than that.<<

Oh, really? If this issue is so important to them, then why haven't they? I can't find a single web page anywhere that attacks this film, complains about the fact it IS currently readily avaliable from sources like eBay and insists it should be outlawed/banned/whatever.

However, one has absolutely no problem finding scores of sites that discuss how wonderful the film is and how sad it is that Disney is trying to bury it.

So, were is the proof that the so-called "lobbyists" for African Americans could round up over 30,000 people to sign an "anti-Song Of the South" petition tomorrow?

And while you're looking (don't worry, we're not holding our breath), chew on this comment from the Internet Movie Database comment board on "Song Of The South":

Date: 3 February 2003
Summary: Long Live this masterpiece!!!

Well, what can I say, I think that the banning of this wonderful motion picture is not only the saddest but also the most irrational thing to ever happen to a classic film. It simply mystifies me and I cannot see why anybody would deem such a sweet and up lifting movie offensive. I myself come from a bi-racial family and let me tell you, that there are much worse things to offend me out there that a family film, and to all those sensitive cry babies who are responsible for the loss of this film (many of which have not seen it) my message to you is GET A LIFE and OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!

Like I said, I come from a bi-racial family and me and my entire family are vouching for the reissue of this film!! My mother actually wants my younger sister to see it! Well, good news. All you folks at Disney who tried to rob us of the pleasure of viewing such a beautiful work of art, I beat your system. After years of searching I got a copy of this film from England (it cost a $100, but belive me for this film it is well spent money) and am having it converted for all my family and friends to enjoy!! The film will always be seen by those who want to see it, you can never hide the masterpieces of such a genius like Walt Disney, therefore, long live Song of the South!!!
 
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