Avatar Land will be amazing

[DRDISNEYMD]

Disney has been working on long term plans for improving AK and HS for some time. Backed into a corner by Universal?! Everything Disney does is in response to Universal?! This isn't just a last ditch effort to respond to Uni and stay out of receivership.

And sure Universal is going gangbuster with building up HP. They don't have anything else. They have to stay viable.

HP2 had better be good and then they need to go on to something else, because when Pandora opens and then Star Wars at HS, the table will be set and Sea World and Universal will be fighting over the decreasing table scraps.

Of course, either way you look at it, it is all good for us. Universal will have more for us to enjoy and Disney will expand AK and HS. It is all going to be good. Some of us think it will be great, awesome, even. But it will at the very least be good.

~Oh, why does it have to be you??? I don't want to disagree with you because we've bonded so nicely over Frozen. But, do you really believe Disney just plucked the Avatar concept out of thin air???

~I believe this is a knee jerk reaction from Disney in response to Harry Potter land. Now, don't get me wrong, I am so excited about Avatar-land. But, I am disappointed with how it came about.

~Also, Avatarland was announced back in 2011 and when we won't see this place until 2017!!! There is absolutely no excuse for this kind of timeline. It doesn't take this long to build anything.

~Meanwhile, Universal is demonstrating a sense of obligation to their patrons. They even set up a website to keep their fans updated, to ensure that they are doing everything possible to bring new experiences and attractions to their fans, as quickly as possible.

~I don't think Universal can ever beat Disney but it's in that "too big to fail" kind of way -- like Walmart versus Nordstrom -- one is bigger but the other is better.

~ETA: I don't think Universal is better than Disney or vice versa. I appreciate both theme parks for different reasons. But, I know Disney can do better, regarding WDW.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

~Oh, why does it have to be you??? I don't want to disagree with you because we've bonded so nicely over Frozen. But, do you really believe Disney just plucked the Avatar concept out of thin air???

~I believe this is a knee jerk reaction from Disney in response to Harry Potter land. Now, don't get me wrong, I am so excited about Avatar-land. But, I am disappointed with how it came about.

~Also, Avatarland was announced back in 2011 and when we won't see this place until 2017!!! There is absolutely no excuse for this kind of timeline. It doesn't take this long to build anything.

~Meanwhile, Universal is demonstrating a sense of obligation to their patrons. They even set up a website to keep their fans updated, to ensure that they are doing everything possible to bring new experiences and attractions to their fans, as quickly as possible.

~I don't think Universal can ever beat Disney but it's in that "too big to fail" kind of way -- like Walmart versus Nordstrom -- one is bigger but the other is better.

~ETA: I don't think Universal is better than Disney or vice versa. I appreciate both theme parks for different reasons. But, I know Disney can do better, regarding WDW.

Haha! Yes, Frozen is awesome. I'll post more numbers in those other threads after this weekend. We could irritate everyone by turning this into a Frozen thread.


I just don't think Disney does knee-jerk. They have a lot of people working all the time on the future. Ideas, deals, plans. Some workout, many plans are shelved, many deals never work out.

Did Pandora come along a few years after HP and while Disney was deciding what to do next did HP come into consideration? Yes. I am sure they evaluate the competition. But I think Disney would have done Pandora even if HP didn't exist. Any part HP played was probably relatively small. Disney cannot afford to just sit around and jump when the other guy does something. Especially when the other guy isn't in the same league.

Disney is busy building a empire around the world and has wanted to expand AK for some time. Pandora is the natural answer.

2011 to 2017 is a long time, but Disney isn't particularly fast AND they are dealing with Cameron, the man who takes pretty much 10 years per movie. BUT, both of those movies made Billions. And we are going to get new technology both in the park and in the next movies. I think this is going to be worth it.

I also think, for the very reason you mentioned - that you enjoy both parks as different - that the two don't really compete that much. There is always a bleed over from one theme park to another, but they have different products. Most people do both not one or the other. I think Disney knows this.

Disney needs to focus on a good product and keeping us happy, not trying to counter every move Universal makes. Why counter the other guy when you are the bigger fish? I just don't think HP opened and then Disney had meetings going, what are we going to do!? They took note and continued their plans.

Now if Frozen can pass DM2 We'll start a "Disney freezes out Universal at the movies" thread. Got almost 200 million to go to do that, though.

 

[Borishack]

Since my original post a SFWMD permit for AK has finally popped up. It's definitely for the area where Avatar will be, but it is very light on details and doesn't show a plan for what is being built.

"Very light on details and doesn't show a plan" = code for = Cameron and the infallible imagineers (well, almost infallible if you forget about the disco yeti) haven't come to an agreement on much of anything yet. Yep, that does a lot for the credibility of those saying that "ground breaking" press event of last week means construction has actually started.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Haha! Yes, Frozen is awesome. I'll post more numbers in those other threads after this weekend. We could irritate everyone by turning this into a Frozen thread.


I just don't think Disney does knee-jerk. They have a lot of people working all the time on the future. Ideas, deals, plans. Some workout, many plans are shelved, many deals never work out.

Did Pandora come along a few years after HP and while Disney was deciding what to do next did HP come into consideration? Yes. I am sure they evaluate the competition. But I think Disney would have done Pandora even if HP didn't exist. Any part HP played was probably relatively small. Disney cannot afford to just sit around and jump when the other guy does something. Especially when the other guy isn't in the same league.

Disney is busy building a empire around the world and has wanted to expand AK for some time. Pandora is the natural answer.

2011 to 2017 is a long time, but Disney isn't particularly fast AND they are dealing with Cameron, the man who takes pretty much 10 years per movie. BUT, both of those movies made Billions. And we are going to get new technology both in the park and in the next movies. I think this is going to be worth it.

I also think, for the very reason you mentioned - that you enjoy both parks as different - that the two don't really compete that much. There is always a bleed over from one theme park to another, but they have different products. Most people do both not one or the other. I think Disney knows this.

Disney needs to focus on a good product and keeping us happy, not trying to counter every move Universal makes. Why counter the other guy when you are the bigger fish? I just don't think HP opened and then Disney had meetings going, what are we going to do!? They took note and continued their plans.

Now if Frozen can pass DM2 We'll start a "Disney freezes out Universal at the movies" thread. Got almost 200 million to go to do that, though.

~I really like what you wrote here, it's a good response. Sometimes, I tend to think the grass is greener on the other side, but it really isn't for me. I just want Disney to build more attractions, much more quickly. Is this unreasonable???

~So, if it take six years to build Avatarland, then I'm going to push Star Wars land back to 2023. We'll probably be able to teleport to the parks by then.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Opinions that nothing is moving ahead, without direct evidence from Disney or Cameron it just opinion and the baiting of other posters. It doesn't add to a good discussion.

Disney had a ceremony, which with common sense would mean construction is starting soon.

Whether that construction is digging ground at AK or continuing planning (which will be none stop until opening day and maybe after) or work being done at the premises of sub constructors on their sites, it is all still construction.

AKK

 

[DanBoris]

"Very light on details and doesn't show a plan" = code for = Cameron and the infallible imagineers (well, almost infallible if you forget about the disco yeti) haven't come to an agreement on much of anything yet. Yep, that does a lot for the credibility of those saying that "ground breaking" press event of last week means construction has actually started.

I am trying not to jump to conclusions about the fact that the permit doesn't have plans, but it is unusual. Permits for the Fantasyland expansion, Everest, Lion King Move, even the new laundry facility all had plans showing how the area would be layed out.

 

[beer dave]

Haha! Yes, Frozen is awesome. I'll post more numbers in those other threads after this weekend. We could irritate everyone by turning this into a Frozen thread.


I just don't think Disney does knee-jerk. They have a lot of people working all the time on the future. Ideas, deals, plans. Some workout, many plans are shelved, many deals never work out.

Did Pandora come along a few years after HP and while Disney was deciding what to do next did HP come into consideration? Yes. I am sure they evaluate the competition. But I think Disney would have done Pandora even if HP didn't exist. Any part HP played was probably relatively small. Disney cannot afford to just sit around and jump when the other guy does something. Especially when the other guy isn't in the same league.

Disney is busy building a empire around the world and has wanted to expand AK for some time. Pandora is the natural answer.

2011 to 2017 is a long time, but Disney isn't particularly fast AND they are dealing with Cameron, the man who takes pretty much 10 years per movie. BUT, both of those movies made Billions. And we are going to get new technology both in the park and in the next movies. I think this is going to be worth it.

I also think, for the very reason you mentioned - that you enjoy both parks as different - that the two don't really compete that much. There is always a bleed over from one theme park to another, but they have different products. Most people do both not one or the other. I think Disney knows this.

Disney needs to focus on a good product and keeping us happy, not trying to counter every move Universal makes. Why counter the other guy when you are the bigger fish? I just don't think HP opened and then Disney had meetings going, what are we going to do!? They took note and continued their plans.

Now if Frozen can pass DM2 We'll start a "Disney freezes out Universal at the movies" thread. Got almost 200 million to go to do that, though.

Hey-- I agree with everything in this post except for the bolded... Most people go to Disney, some people do both, and a lesser some only go to universal.

 

[rteetz]

Hey-- I agree with everything in this post except for the bolded... Most people go to Disney, some people do both, and a lesser some only go to universal.

correct I've never been to universal. Over 17 million go to disney in a year compared to universals around 7 so...

 

[beer dave]

correct I've never been to universal. Over 17 million go to disney in a year compared to universals around 7 so...

Yeah me either-- although I am thinking of going for a night or two to get the front of the line passes before they stop doing it. That is the only way I would go. My DD who is a huge HP fan went with some friends to see HP world and she was disappointed. Too small. Didn't have the attention to detail she has come to expect.

 

[rteetz]

Yeah me either-- although I am thinking of going for a night or two to get the front of the line passes before they stop doing it. That is the only way I would go. My DD who is a huge HP fan went with some friends to see HP world and she was disappointed. Too small. Didn't have the attention to detail she has come to expect.

I'm not a HP fan so I haven't gone.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Hey-- I agree with everything in this post except for the bolded... Most people go to Disney, some people do both, and a lesser some only go to universal.

True, I over simplified. But I'll bet the great majority of the 7 million that go to Uni also go to WDW. A very small portion only go to Uni. And most of these are probably AP I would guess.

So well less than half of MK visitors, but a larger percentage of the other parks visitors, visit Uni.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

~I really like what you wrote here, it's a good response. Sometimes, I tend to think the grass is greener on the other side, but it really isn't for me. I just want Disney to build more attractions, much more quickly. Is this unreasonable???

~So, if it take six years to build Avatarland, then I'm going to push Star Wars land back to 2023. We'll probably be able to teleport to the parks by then.

Oh, I want Pandora and especially Star Wars right away! I'm itching for them to get this done. I'd be 63 in 2023!! I am trying to separate my desire for stuff now with trying to understand how Disney operates as a business. It is hard.

I want Pandora and Star Wars now. Maybe they can have Han, Luke, & Leia swoop in and save the Navi'!

 

[Rumors Rocks]

True, I over simplified. But I'll bet the great majority of the 7 million that go to Uni also go to WDW. A very small portion only go to Uni. And most of these are probably AP I would guess.

So well less than half of MK visitors, but a larger percentage of the other parks visitors, visit Uni.

It asks the question-Could Universal finally survive without Disney? I guess we'll never know. We don't ever have to question whether Disney can survive without Universal.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It asks the question-Could Universal finally survive without Disney? I guess we'll never know. We don't ever have to question whether Disney can survive without Universal.

I think they could at this point... Wouldn't have said that 5 years ago.
But they would have to change their pricing to more of a regional park and perhaps would have way too much hotel inventory.

But the combination of the two parks with their IP is strong enough to survive one would think

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Oh, I want Pandora and especially Star Wars right away! I'm itching for them to get this done. I'd be 63 in 2023!! I am trying to separate my desire for stuff now with trying to understand how Disney operates as a business. It is hard.

I want Pandora and Star Wars now. Maybe they can have Han, Luke, & Leia swoop in and save the Navi'!

~LOL. I know, but look at how fast Disney builds DVC hotels. These are full resorts with all the amenities -- pools, restaurants, etc. So, Disney can build a couple of rides quickly, if they *had* too.

I think they could at this point... Wouldn't have said that 5 years ago.
But they would have to change their pricing to more of a regional park and perhaps would have way too much hotel inventory.

But the combination of the two parks with their IP is strong enough to survive one would think

~My issue with this, is that Harry Potter seems to overshadow the Universal brand. Are people flocking in droves to visit Universal or Harry Potter? This is risky but so far it's proven to be worth it.

~In contrast, Disney doesn't rely on a single IP to draw in crowds. People want to visit "Disney" first and foremost.

~Universal and IOA are wonderful parks. I like Harry Potter books and movies, but I'm not a Harry Potter "fan." I find the Harry Potter theme to be "dark" and "gloomy" -- like Gotham City, lol. Disney will always appeal to me more but I like what Universal is doing and I do feel they are giving Disney a run for their money and market share.

~I hope Disney doesn't find out the hard way that "slow & steady" doesn't always win the race. We'll see.

 

[DanBoris]

~LOL. I know, but look at how fast Disney builds DVC hotels. These are full resorts with all the amenities -- pools, restaurants, etc. So, Disney can build a couple of rides quickly, if they *had* too.


~My issue with this, is that Harry Potter seems to overshadow the Universal brand. Are people flocking in droves to visit Universal or Harry Potter? This is risky but so far it's proven to be worth it.

~In contrast, Disney doesn't rely on a single IP to draw in crowds. People want to visit "Disney" first and foremost.

~Universal and IOA are wonderful parks. I like Harry Potter books and movies, but I'm not a Harry Potter "fan." I find the Harry Potter theme to be "dark" and "gloomy" -- like Gotham City, lol. Disney will always appeal to me more but I like what Universal is doing and I do feel they are giving Disney a run for their money and market share.

~I hope Disney doesn't find out the hard way that "slow & steady" doesn't always win the race. We'll see.

Yes, people are flocking to Uni for Potter, but I think once people get there a lot of them are seeing that the parks have a lot more to offer then just Potter and this is what will bring them back in the future.

 

[rteetz]

Yes, people are flocking to Uni for Potter, but I think once people get there a lot of them are seeing that the parks have a lot more to offer then just Potter and this is what will bring them back in the future.

this is true and I think once potter 2 is done we will see them adding and changing up other areas. I think they could something suess land or whatever it is. Once disney starts losing customers and uni keeps gaining that when we will see disney finally do something big but until then I see disney keeping on this streak of 3-4 year projects taking their time no rushing. Only thing disney will keep pursuing is DVC because they keep selling it.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Yes, people are flocking to Uni for Potter, but I think once people get there a lot of them are seeing that the parks have a lot more to offer then just Potter and this is what will bring them back in the future.

~Great post! It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I am beyond impressed with the Hogwarts Express Train, it is a game changer for Universal! Harry Potter is the huge draw here, I just hope it's not a fad.

~But, like another poster mentioned on another thread -- Disney classic IP's like the Little Mermaid and Cinderella are platinum boxed limited releases for $30+ bucks, while the Harry Potter films are in the bargain bin.

~I like to argue that the IP doesn't matter as long as the land is great -- but that's for Disney. The Disney brand is larger than any one IP. With Universal, the film does seem to matter, but hopefully not for long. We'll see.

~I admit to being biased toward Disney. But, I have to acknowledge how Universal has stepped up their game. Can Universal emerge from Harry Potter's shadow? I hope this remains a huge success for Universal.

~Again, Disney remains the huge draw for most guests. I'm just loving this themepark war and I plan to enjoy both for now!

 

[Rumors Rocks]

I think they could at this point... Wouldn't have said that 5 years ago.
But they would have to change their pricing to more of a regional park and perhaps would have way too much hotel inventory.

But the combination of the two parks with their IP is strong enough to survive one would think

Good response- I tend to agree with this.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

~Great post! It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I am beyond impressed with the Hogwarts Express Train, it is a game changer for Universal! Harry Potter is the huge draw here, I just hope it's not a fad.

~But, like another poster mentioned on another thread -- Disney classic IP's like the Little Mermaid and Cinderella are platinum boxed limited releases for $30+ bucks, while the Harry Potter films are in the bargain bin.

~I like to argue that the IP doesn't matter as long as the land is great -- but that's for Disney. The Disney brand is larger than any one IP. With Universal, the film does seem to matter, but hopefully not for long. We'll see.

~I admit to being biased toward Disney. But, I have to acknowledge how Universal has stepped up their game. Can Universal emerge from Harry Potter's shadow? I hope this remains a huge success for Universal.

~Again, Disney remains the huge draw for most guests. I'm just loving this themepark war and I plan to enjoy both for now!

Yeah - we went to Universal IoA seven or eight years ago. Spiderman was good, and Hulk left my stomach on the ground, and that Poseidon "walk-thru" was cool, but I thought the rest was unremarkable. I left thinking that it was just a Six Flags with better themed rides. No attention to detail, no presentation, no "niceties." Frankly, if not for HP I probably wouldn't have returned.

We went back to IoA the year HP opened, and it was good - Disney caliber - I thought. I think the best thing there is Ollivanders. The Castle & dark ride were well done - but nothing mind blowing. We walked out of HP, rode Spidey, then hit the gate for EPCOT.

The problem with Universal is that, while HP is great quality, everything else is like Six Flags - just *meh.* I don't want to walk out of a ride to a junky, poorly decorated amusement park. I can do that much closer to home.