Avatarland!!!!

[Yellowstonetim]

The Avtarland advocates have ready given up trying to imply the movie is an iconic, widely beloved brand (they best they can do is reference Facebook "like" nonsense about meaningless press releases).

So what they now have had to fall back on is repeatedly stating how fantastic some vaguely defined Pandora "environment" will supposedly be. I remember hearing exactly the same sort of hype years ago about the "breakthrough experience" the infallible imagineers were going to deliver on a soon to open, cutting-edge space attraction at Epcot.

Yes, one which was eventually nicknamed "Mission Vomit", and is now known as the dependable walk on when you have run out of everything else to do in Future World...

Nobody said it was iconic and nobody called it a franchise and nobody even said it was a great movie!

All that was said was that it was a huge hit all around the world. There are many facts to support this, including Facebook. It is interesting how you dismiss as irrelevant (in a high handed tone) facts that you don't like. For no other reason then they don't fit with the colored glasses through which you view the world.

You must have wiped 2010 from your memory banks. All during Avatar's record breaking run it was a cultural phenomenon. AND most of the discussion centered around the universally acclaimed visuals, flora, and fauna. People didn't rave that the movie was written better than Citizen Kane, but they did say Pandora was beautiful and beyond anything portrayed before.

Avatar haters are missing the whole point. Forget the story or even the whole movie! What Disney saw was that millions of people alk over the world loved Pandora, even reviewers that hated the movie. People will love to fly a dragon through floating mountains and ride a boat through a glowing jungle. The only way to not see how good a low risk fit this is for AK, is to not want to.

Of course, I have no doubt that the facts are meaningless, my conclusions are all wrong, and Disney has no idea what they are doing.

And Mission Space is a breakthrough and my 2nd favorite ride after Star Tours. Its only problem is that it was too good (realistic) for the masses. I love the G-forces.

 

[Belle1386]

I have to say I am really on the fence on this one. I do think that DAK needs more attractions, but I guess I always thought that MAYBE they would go with the original Beastly Kingdom. The concept art looks really nice, but it won't be enough if the attractions aren't a great draw. To make it really work, they will need one, or maybe 2 E-ticket attractions, plus things for the kiddies to do. Another Full service restaurant is really needed, especially if they plan to extend park hours... not to mention more Quick Service establishments. Do I think they could have picked a better theme?.. yes!, as I don't really get how this fits under the Animal Kingdom umbrella... but I will reserve judgment until I see the finished product.

 

[Borishack]

nothing says our American culture like facebook9

With all due respect, I and my friends at Roper and Gallup beg to differ.

First, the the lack of commitment involved in the superfical, non-commital act of "liking" of "disliking" something on Facebook has been well documented.

However, that hasn't stopped advertisers and advocates for whatever from grabbing onto the thumbs up/down dynamic, as a shallow and failed substitute for true survey research. But it's not: in addition to the lack of engagement behind the "voting," the samples are not representative (Corporate PR release pages attract the ends of the spectrum, the partisans and the detractors but few of the mass of humanity inbetween).

nobody called avatar iconic

Really?

avatar did more in movie gross than all 3 of the star wars prequels combine

 

[twebber55]

With all due respect, I and my friends at Roper and Gallup beg to differ.

First, the the lack of commitment involved in the superfical, non-commital act of "liking" of "disliking" something on Facebook has been well documented.

However, that hasn't stopped advertisers and advocates for whatever from grabbing onto the thumbs up/down dynamic, as a shallow and failed substitute for true survey research. But it's not: in addition to the lack of engagement behind the "voting," the samples are not representative (Corporate PR release pages attract the ends of the spectrum, the partisans and the detractors but few of the mass of humanity inbetween).



Really?

yep never said iconic but my facts don't lie about box office
you kinda just proved my point....and the star wars prequels were not very good at least the first two

facebook was just one of about 10 facts in which I said it doesn't mean a ton but it does mean something so theres that
again I agree with you about the commitment part being somewhat arbitrary in regards to facebook and to dismiss it is fair but you ve dismissed all other facts that are tangible

im like Michael Corleone im trying to get out of this thread but I keep getting pulled back in

 

[surferdave]

I'm not really that worried about Avatar land, honestly... What I am worried about is what it's going to contain. Will it have a lot of fun attractions, or is it just going to be a "SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT OR ELSE" area? Because that's what I felt the movie was like...

You're right about a need for new attractions. If they add a new genuine thrill ride and a well themed family ride then I think it's a success, regardless of the Avatar theme.

I'm not that suspicious of it being a big environmentalist thing as much as the new "attractions" being restaurants, gift stores and meet & greets.

 

[mvk]

I have to say I am really on the fence on this one. I do think that DAK needs more attractions, but I guess I always thought that MAYBE they would go with the original Beastly Kingdom. The concept art looks really nice, but it won't be enough if the attractions aren't a great draw. To make it really work, they will need one, or maybe 2 E-ticket attractions, plus things for the kiddies to do. Another Full service restaurant is really needed, especially if they plan to extend park hours... not to mention more Quick Service establishments. Do I think they could have picked a better theme?.. yes!, as I don't really get how this fits under the Animal Kingdom umbrella... but I will reserve judgment until I see the finished product.

What is it about Beastly Kingdom that would be any different than Pandora? Is it unicorns that would draw you in? There will still be dragons, or at least close to it, in the form of the toruk or banshees. The Yeti is over in Asia, for better or worse.

I just don't understand how people are saying no to Pandora but want Beastly Kingdom. It's pretty much the same concept, theme-wise.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

What is it about Beastly Kingdom that would be any different than Pandora? Is it unicorns that would draw you in? There will still be dragons, or at least close to it, in the form of the toruk or banshees. The Yeti is over in Asia, for better or worse.

I just don't understand how people are saying no to Pandora but want Beastly Kingdom. It's pretty much the same concept, theme-wise.

I think Beastly Kingdom was going to be more traditional Disney fantasy as opposed to sci-fi fantasy. But for that very reason I think Beastly would have been far less appealing and far more limited by expectations of what Disney fantasy should look like. Pandora looks far more rich and realistic. Should make for a great theme. And Beastly Kingdom is more suited for MK. I so want to fly a banshee through the floating mountains!

 

[rteetz]

I think Beastly Kingdom was going to be more traditional Disney fantasy as opposed to sci-fi fantasy. But for that very reason I think Beastly would have been far less appealing and far more limited by expectations of what Disney fantasy should look like. Pandora looks far more rich and realistic. Should make for a great theme. And Beastly Kingdom is more suited for MK. I so want to fly a banshee through the floating mountains!

I have to agree I think if disney would have went with beastly kingdom originally it wouldn't be much different from the rest of the park. By adding something that is new and rich is technological advancements I think thats way better than going back to an idea that was created in the 90s. Don't get me wrong I would have like to see what they would have done with beastly kingdom but I think pandora will be better. The amazing detail that the bioluminescent forest is supposed to have is probably one of the best things disney has done in the past 10 years. I think thats also why disney is taking so long on this they want to get it right. The nighttime look that will be added to AK is perfect for pandora I think to get the full feel of pandora they had to add extended hours as well as a nighttime show. Everyone's complaint about what's this going to do to the animals but as far as anyone at disney has said they have already experimented and the animals have reacted fine. Avatar may have not been the best movie but it did have record movie attendance and a lot of people saw it. I don't think you will need to like the movie in order to like pandora in real life. It's like cars land they are putting you the consumer right in the actual physical planet of pandora in the most realistic way possible. Joe rohde will not let this project not have details and be an immersive land. His work with animal kingdom and aulani just shows that joe and his attention to detail are just amazing. I can't wait to see what this land will bring.

 

[Belle1386]

Regardless of the theming, it needs to have spectacular attractions, a full service restaurant, counter service restaurants and a show--which can be the night time show. No doubt that it will be beautiful, I am just hoping, with all that we've read, it will live up to what we all know Joe Rodhe can do. I don't want a repeat of New Fantasyland, which is pretty on the outside, but has no substance. I am hoping that the Mine Train will be a good ride, because so far, other than it being pretty, I am not impressed. Oh, and please no more "original drinks"... that LeFou's Brew is nasty stuff!

 

[Viva Las Disney]

What is it about Beastly Kingdom that would be any different than Pandora? Is it unicorns that would draw you in? There will still be dragons, or at least close to it, in the form of the toruk or banshees. The Yeti is over in Asia, for better or worse.

I just don't understand how people are saying no to Pandora but want Beastly Kingdom. It's pretty much the same concept, theme-wise.

I was thinking the same thing. Pandora is basically BK with a movie tie in.

Had Avatar never been made and Disney released the exact same conceptual pictures but called it Beastly Kingdom people would just be thrilled BK is being built and we're finally getting dragons and mythical creatures at AK.

http://www.insidethemagic.net/2013/...h-new-nighttime-animal-kingdom-entertainment/

 

[lockedoutlogic]

star tours is the 4 most popular ride at DHS...theme park insider guest rates it below tower of terror..

Star tours is a horrendous ride... A failure by disney and Lucas.

It's junk...nobody really says otherwise.

So were the last 3 movies...dung on film

But...avatar is a crumb that can be flicked off of the staying power plate of Star Wars....
So how can bad things sustain so well... While avatar basically stuck around for the pop culture equivalent of a cup of coffee?

These are legitimate questions...and why this "debate" is not gonna end...

First, build the damn thing...glaciers move faster.

Second, if they do build this and it is a bomb...then Disney will be even MORE reluctant to put cash into the money mine in Orlando... It's not like they need to double down.

Third, animal kingdom costs a fortune to run and is a pretty bad park (let's be honest) overall... It can afford a big fail less than any Disney park on earth at this point (who cares about studios Paris?)

Honestly... If they were gonna buy Lucas and then Goof around for 5+ years as they clearly will... They shoulda just built this at MGM.

 

[twebber55]

Star tours is a horrendous ride... A failure by disney and Lucas.

It's junk...nobody really says otherwise.

So were the last 3 movies...dung on film

But...avatar is a crumb that can be flicked off of the staying power plate of Star Wars....
So how can bad things sustain so well... While avatar basically stuck around for the pop culture equivalent of a cup of coffee?

These are legitimate questions...and why this "debate" is not gonna end...

First, build the damn thing...glaciers move faster.

Second, if they do build this and it is a bomb...then Disney will be even MORE reluctant to put cash into the money mine in Orlando... It's not like they need to double down.

Third, animal kingdom costs a fortune to run and is a pretty bad park (let's be honest) overall... It can afford a big fail less than any Disney park on earth at this point (who cares about studios Paris?)

Honestly... If they were gonna buy Lucas and then Goof around for 5+ years as they clearly will... They shoulda just built this at MGM.

haha good points especially the part about taking forever..i totally agree

 

[rteetz]

Regardless of the theming, it needs to have spectacular attractions, a full service restaurant, counter service restaurants and a show--which can be the night time show. No doubt that it will be beautiful, I am just hoping, with all that we've read, it will live up to what we all know Joe Rodhe can do. I don't want a repeat of New Fantasyland, which is pretty on the outside, but has no substance. I am hoping that the Mine Train will be a good ride, because so far, other than it being pretty, I am not impressed. Oh, and please no more "original drinks"... that LeFou's Brew is nasty stuff!

Well so far it seems to be some sort of boat ride through the forest and a ride where you "ride" a banshee through the floating mountains.

 

[jcemom]

First, build the damn thing...glaciers move faster.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Star tours is a horrendous ride... A failure by disney and Lucas.

It's junk...nobody really says otherwise
...
First, build the damn thing...glaciers move

Third, animal kingdom costs a fortune to run and is a pretty bad park

Haha! I get such a kick out of this over the top rhetoric!

Star Tours, while now an older ride is amazing and a favorite of many, including my son and I. I love the tech advance it represented when new. Yes ToT is more popular and newer but it is the rare thing and possibly the best ride in the world.

Yes I want them to move along but I'll take great rather than soon.

You mean that failure of a park that gets half again as much attendance as US? AK is my favorite park. It is unique among theme parks in the world. I'm a hiker and mountain lover. I love walking around AK and looking across the water at the trees and, saying, wow, this is a theme park! Yes it definitely needs expansion, and while no venture is without risk, Pandora is possibly the best bet that could make.

It's obvious! Nobody says otherwise!

 

[surferdave]

You mean that failure of a park that gets half again as much attendance as US?

You keep emphasizing this, but all that means is that it's way cheaper to stop by AK or HS for a few attractions than it is to go to Sea World or Universal if you already have tickets to Disney's parks. If they had to stand on their own without admission to MK & Epcot I don't believe these two parks would fare very well.

 

[twebber55]

Star tours is a horrendous ride... A failure by disney and Lucas.

It's junk...nobody really says otherwise.

So were the last 3 movies...dung on film

But...avatar is a crumb that can be flicked off of the staying power plate of Star Wars....
So how can bad things sustain so well... While avatar basically stuck around for the pop culture equivalent of a cup of coffee?

These are legitimate questions...and why this "debate" is not gonna end...

First, build the damn thing...glaciers move faster.

Second, if they do build this and it is a bomb...then Disney will be even MORE reluctant to put cash into the money mine in Orlando... It's not like they need to double down.

Third, animal kingdom costs a fortune to run and is a pretty bad park (let's be honest) overall... It can afford a big fail less than any Disney park on earth at this point (who cares about studios Paris?)

Honestly... If they were gonna buy Lucas and then Goof around for 5+ years as they clearly will... They shoulda just built this at MGM.

you kinda just made my point about IP...IP matters but not much
Yellowstonetime loves star tours
I like it don't love it
You think its horrendous

we don't know for sure it will be a success but nothing is guaranteed but given Camerons success im betting this will be huge for Disney...so much so you will see a change in crowd patterns flooding DAK at night, again just my opinion

but this whole I hate the movie avatar means the land will be bad is just something that I completely disagree with

This will have at least a cars land impact at WDW JMO

 

[Yellowstonetim]

You keep emphasizing this, but all that means is that it's way cheaper to stop by AK or HS for a few attractions than it is to go to Sea World or Universal if you already have tickets to Disney's parks. If they had to stand on their own without admission to MK & Epcot I don't believe these two parks would fare very well.

An interesting point. I don't know where they would be on the list if not at Disney. Would they be a number of spots lower or with Baseball World and Circus World? But I think with the expansions of Pandora at AK and Star Wars at HS both will take off. In fact, such a one-two punch should have Uni and SeaW worried.

I went to both Uni and SeaW this last time. If I go back and there is Pandora at AK and a whole Star Wars Land at HS, I'll stay for 7 to 10 days and never go off property. HP or no HP.

My only point is that people call it terrible or a failure, but most other theme park companies dream of something this "bad."
Regarding nature: If Disney would expand properly and advertise right, I think AK is the theme park for people who don't like theme parks.

 

[briand1023]

No matter what they do, they need to add attractions to AK....this past week down there for New Years, the crowds at all other parks were out of control even to the point of turning people away due to closing...AK was not nearly full....the draw just isn't there for most people as it stands now....

 

[twebber55]

No matter what they do, they need to add attractions to AK....this past week down there for New Years, the crowds at all other parks were out of control even to the point of turning people away due to closing...AK was not nearly full....the draw just isn't there for most people as it stands now....

totally agree on the need to add attractions/expansion at DAK

that's why im curious to see the impact of FP+ at DAK because to me it discourages people from park hopping so adding Pandora is a complete necessity