Baltimore Key Bridge collapss

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It’s not old.

And every bridge in the US over 20 feet long is federally mandated to be inspected every 2 years. There’s an entire industry of engineers whose job it is to do those inspections. (Mine included.)


A direct hit by a cargo ship of that size is a huge design load. Yes accidents can happen, but you have to analyze risk. Can you mitigate risk by locating piers far enough out of the channel to make collisions a statistical anomaly? Can you add a fender system? (In this case with this size ship, I’m not sure it would have helped.)

You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm talking about understanding why the general public feels the way they do and a bridge built in the 1970s can seem old to them.

Don't take this as a personal thing which you are doing. I made it clear that experts have made it clear this collapse was not related to what the structure was. But that's all conversation to help others.

My husband is a mechanical engineer I'm well aware of safety standards (though more experience in knowledge on power plants for me less on his newer job as an airline fueling arena). But for those who are not engineers it's a different frame of mind.

ETA: According to info I can find MA has 7,880 bridges, my state lists 24,907.

 

[mom2rtk]

It takes more than a few months to start work of that scale, even if that bridge was being included on the list of work to be done with the infrastructure bill, it could be years before the updates would be in place.

Oh I get that. But the post implied the money isn't there. The money part is there now. We need to just give it some time to be spent. Hopefully properly.

 

[livih99]

Bridge inspections is also something that nationally we have way too few of people to do.

I can only speak to my own experience in MA, so take that for what you will, but the way bridge inspections work up here is that MassDOT has subcontractors that complete the inspections for them, and those companies also have subcontractors that they hire to help them complete their inspections (which is the level my company is at, a sub to a sub). My company works with quite a few bigger companies that typically have offices across the country, doing similar inspections in other states. So none of us are actual DOT employees and the actual MassDOT inspection department is fairly small because they are just reviewing our reports and making the decisions on which bridges need what repairs in what priority order. It's a weird but fun job that no one ever really talks about because as QueenIsabella said, the public doesn't really care until something goes wrong.

As far as the John Oliver segment, I was talking about that with a few of my coworkers a few months ago and I think we all agreed the bit at the end is the ultimate bridge inspector hype-up video.

 

[soccerdad72]

Oh I get that. But the post implied the money isn't there. The money part is there now. We need to just give it some time to be spent. Hopefully properly.

Absolutely.

I do wonder if the Key bridge was in consideration for updates / repairs or if it was a lower priority versus other bridges in worse shape.

There seems to be some question as to whether or not the protections added to newer bridges these days would have made a difference in this case. The one article I read said that simply put, a bridge in 1977 was never designed to withstand an impact like this. Primarily because in the 70's, cargo ships of this size just didn't exist.

 

[disneydreamer1980]

Took my dh an extra HOUR to get home from work yesterday because traffic in the tunnel was so bad. I’m guessing it’s because of the bridge.

 

[NotUrsula]

The designated salvor is Resolve Marine out of Ft. Lauderdale, and according to the White House press conference yesterday, Bloomberg News, the maritime news site Dredgewire, and yesterday's Baltimore Sun, representatives of the company were on board the Dali yesterday afternoon, working on inspecting damage and planning how to remove the bridge truss that fell onto the deck. (When my brother was doing this kind of dive work he still lived at home. It drove my parents nuts that he would get calls at all hours when a disaster happened, calling him in to work immediately. Sometimes they had to be flown to the site, and sometimes went by road or boat, but usually they were on-site before 48 hours had passed, with the engineers out there even sooner.)

As to the bridge being "old", I think that perception is being driven by the press somewhat, but also by the officials the press is speaking to. It is being called an "old" bridge because it is an Interstate Highway System bridge over a shipping channel, but was built to the "old" design standard in place before the Sunshine Skyway Disaster of 1980. Most cantilever bridges in this category have either been replaced or had collision protection upgrades since the new design standards went into effect in 1983, and those that still exist are mostly on track for being replaced soon for this reason. It isn't "old" by ordinary bridge design standards, but by the protective standard set for bridges that are at increased risk of cargo ship collision incidents. This type of bridge is no longer being built in such locations, so unless there is some sort of legal exception carved out for it, the bridge that replaces it will be a different design type.

 

[EACarlson]

In related issues, I was told that 32,000 Trucks used that bridge daily. About 10% of them that carry hazardous materials which are forbidden from using the tunnels for obvious reasons. Those vehicles are now subject to an 84 mile detour that is expected to add two hours per trip. It's amazing the things that are affected that you don't even think about.
I lived in Minneapolis when that bridge went down, while the detour was a bit of a pain, there are lots of bridges across the Mississippi there. This is going to be a whole other level.

 

[Magical2017]

Took my dh an extra HOUR to get home from work yesterday because traffic in the tunnel was so bad. I’m guessing it’s because of the bridge.

And this is spring break for most of the counties. Next week will be interesting. I travel through back roads in the county and even my commute was twice as long.

 

[mikehn]

I cant imagine if this had been the George Washington Bridge over the Hudson, geez

 

[Dan Murphy]

The footage of it collapsing is impressive.

I remember seeing that newsreel when I was a kid (not when it happened, that was 1940, ha) and amazed at watching it.

 

[Breezy_Carol]

I was told that 32,000 Trucks used that bridge daily. About 10% of them that carry hazardous materials which are forbidden from using the tunnels for obvious reasons. Those vehicles are now subject to an 84 mile detour that is expected to add two hours per trip.

I grew up in Baltimore before I moved to a nearby county and still travel through there often. The Baltimore Beltway would be the detour and is about 51 miles which would only take 2 hours in stop and go traffic.
The Baltimore Beltway was completed in 1962 as a 36-mile-long circumferential freeway bypass of the city, although it did not become a 53-mile-long full circle until 1977 when the eastern portion was completed across the Outer Harbor.
That outer harbor crossing was the Key Bridge.

The figure I read in the local news was 30,000 vehicles cross daily. A lot are local commuters.

 

[CynBeth]

The O’s won! They had a moment of silence before the game and honored some of the first responders.

 

[NotUrsula]

The channel has been re-routed and opened to limited shallow-draft traffic as of yesterday afternoon. This allows barges to get through and move cargo out to other ports; the first vessel through was a tug pushing a bargeload of jet fuel for the Air Force. (The depth of the channel on this route is only 11 feet.)

This temporary solution doesn't allow large loaded container ships or cruise ships through, because the main (deep draft) channel is still blocked, but it does allow some freight traffic to move. It is perhaps possible for an empty container ship to get through to be repositioned, depending on what the unloaded draft requirement is.