Best Strategy for a trip in 2022? Lower Your Expectations

[TiggerBouncy]

Totally understand. We were owners for about 6 years. It helped to know other visits were on the horizon, but if we were owners now I’d be really sad and frustrated.

TBH as a DVC owner, I am less bothered by G+ then I would be if I were not a DVC owner. The thing is, I know this will get worked out in time and I know that I will still be going when it does get worked out. Change is inevitable. Changes to G+ are inevitable, too.

While it may be a more open playing field, you are still ending up with the same (and actually probably more) amount of people who want to get a pass for a ride and can't. G+ doesn't change that because the capacity is the problem, not when people schedule it.
<snip>
There's no going back, but they could definitely make G+ more useful. Being able to modify your time/choose a time would help a lot. Or being able to book the night before or something if not farther in advance.

So I do not disagree with a thing you said. I agree that although a more open playing field, it doesn't actually solve the problem. The only REAL way to solve the problem is either more rides or less people. I personally do believe that there will be in the future some limited capacity to plan ahead. As far as I can tell, G+ has the CAPACITY for future planning. It's just not enabled yet. Probably because they are still feeling the system out. I think the single biggest thing they could do however to help the system RIGHT NOW is reserved time slots when doing a purchase. Believing you are buying a pass for 11am and then finding out it is really for 4pm is a serious problem.

I don’t think 7am is as big an issue as it first appears. As long as you book by park open there is usually pretty good availability for most rides and you can still book your next G+ LL at park open +2 hours.

I don't have a major problem with availability at 7am. I have a problem with not getting the time you are buying.

And THIS is why is chaps my behind so much….I understand projects have schedules and we drive to meet them. However, the ONLY schedule driver here was to START MAKING MONEY. There was no safety issue that had to be addressed immediately, or an event that huge software MUST precede of it would be moot, etc. They crammed this into the market whether it was ready or not so they could start monetizing it regardless of the experience it was going to provide the guests.

To be honest, it's probably not even directly related to making money. MOST TIMES I have seen this, It's driven by the PM or Management that doesn't want to be seen as failing to deliver. 99.9% of the time (and this is why I do not blame Chapek), if IT management came forward and said "we can deliver a product on the schedule we originally told you, but it will suck and piss off our guests, OR we can take another 3 months and do it right" management - given those choices - will choose option B.

The problem is that some new, inexperienced, insecure Project Manager or IT Management doesn't want to have that discussion. They want their boss to thing they are the bee's knees. They MISTAKINGLY believe that pushing to be on a schedule, even when failing on the product is better because they believe that the bugs are never as bad as the developers and testers claim they are. They think devs and testers make up stuff because they want to justify jobs and pay. So they make really moronic choices and push projects that shouldn't go out when they should just go up the chain and say "it's not ready yet, but here is our plan and when it will be".

 

[cgattis]

To be honest, it's probably not even directly related to making money. MOST TIMES I have seen this, It's driven by the PM or Management that doesn't want to be seen as failing to deliver. 99.9% of the time (and this is why I do not blame Chapek), if IT management came forward and said "we can deliver a product on the schedule we originally told you, but it will suck and piss off our guests, OR we can take another 3 months and do it right" management - given those choices - will choose option B.

The problem is that some new, inexperienced, insecure Project Manager or IT Management doesn't want to have that discussion. They want their boss to thing they are the bee's knees. They MISTAKINGLY believe that pushing to be on a schedule, even when failing on the product is better because they believe that the bugs are never as bad as the developers and testers claim they are. They think devs and testers make up stuff because they want to justify jobs and pay. So they make really moronic choices and push projects that shouldn't go out when they should just go up the chain and say "it's not ready yet, but here is our plan and when it will be".

That makes me feel zero percent better about G+ or the current state of Disney management. However, I’m filing that info away in my work brain because that insight may be very valuable to me there!! Thank you for sharing that!!

 

[TiggerBouncy]

That makes me feel zero percent better about G+ or the current state of Disney management. However, I’m filing that info away in my work brain because that insight may be very valuable to me there!! Thank you for sharing that!!

IKR. Wasn't really meant to make you feel better about it. It's a problem at a lot of big companies. Sometimes it can be fixed with culture, but sometimes it's really difficult even for a company that tries it's best to foster a good culture.

As I mentioned, happened once to me back when I was an IT manager. Both QA and Dev (I was in charge of Dev) said the product was not ready. We said we needed more time to test it and fix the bugs. The software was NOT ready. A new Director who was determined to make his mark overrode both of us and ordered us to release the software. Note that this was AGAINST our ISO protocols which stated that either of us had the right to stop a release. It was also against the company culture at the top which was very much a quality driven company.

But this new Director didn't see things that way and he was our manager. Turns out that every meeting where we told him we were behind schedule, he didn't report that. He reported that everything was on track sure that he could fix it. So low and behold when release date came, he was determined that the project he was leading was going to be released on time. It took us reporting the situation to the corporate ombudsman office (with a failed ISO audit on top) and an investigation that finally lead to him being removed from a position of power (we did not take that lying down), but the damage was done and we still had a lot of cleanup to do over the badly handled release.

The fault lay strictly at the directors level. The Executive VP didn't know about it until too late. But I know that VP and given the choice he would have taken late, but right.

Again, this doesn't defend Disney IT. Someone along the chain decided to release it knowing full well it wasn't ready. I'm just saying it may not have been all about money. Sometimes it's about pride. Not an excuse.

 

[kathy884]

As an offsite visitor, I thought FP+ was pretty worthless. The main things it offered were rides that are easy to do standby and wouldn't save me time or rides I wasn't even interested in. It wasn't worth it to book most things and change my touring plan (wouldn't in the long run save me any time -- would add time instead -- the TP people would even indicate don't use that FP). I'd maybe book 1 FP where there was something I wanted to do and it would save me a little time and it would only be available in the late afternoon. I still after many trips haven't done some of the new headliners due to no FP+ availability and longer standby lines than I was willing to wait in.

I'm going to give Genie+ and LL a try later this month. I have low expectations. But since I thought FP+ was worthless, the worst I'll think is that this is worthless too and that I wasted some money. But if I can get two rides for Genie that I'd like and that would save me some time in line that would be an improvement over FP+. And at least for LL, if the ride is not available (that's what I am expecting except for maybe Remmy in the afternoon or evening at Epcot), at least I don't pay. We are only doing two Disney park days, so don't have as big a commitment (just Epcot and MK this time).

This will also be the first time I don't get to do rope drop. All the onsite people will be able to enter a 1/2 hour before me. Not sure how that will affect me either.

We love the Disney parks, go to Orlando about every two or three years, but on those trips only do one or two Disney parks. Just saying overall, Disney for us is just a small part of the vacation.

I can see onsite visitors (the group FP+ worked to some extent for) would be unhappy to now be competing with all of us for the limited Genie+ ride slots.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

. So a lot of what we complain about is actually them trying to address the criticism. We just don't like it because we would rather them make more rides. More rides takes time though... a lot of time and a lot of money. Plus.... if they have reason to believe the crowds are not sustainable, then they will over-expand... and that's worse. There is no easy way back from that.

Huh?

Did you really try to say that Disney can't afford to add more attractions?

If WDW is meeting their attendance goal, then they have no reason to spend to build more attractions. They build to generate revenue and/or to compete.

Places like Disney and Universal don't tend to use their own money when they build. They usually have some type of equity/bond/loan/reclamation/infrastructure deal with the local government to fund bigger projects.

Small attractions like a Tilt A Whirl only cost a little over $300,000 to build. Ride prices are hard to find, but here's an interesting list of used amusement park rides for sale: USED RIDE LIST (intermarkridegroup.com) A used Super Sizzler/Scrambler built in 2016 costs $310,000. While I doubt WDW would ever buy a used amusement ride, the list gives some idea as to what various rides are worth.

When WDW expanded Fantasyland, I'm sure they didn't spend much $ building Storytime with Belle, and WDW has multiple Zamperla rides, those run roughly about the same prices as a Tilt A Whirl. These are: Triceratops Spin, Dumbo, Aladin's Carpets, Astro Orbiter, and Universal's One Fish Two Fish - to name a few.

WDW could easily buy one for both Epcot and one for HS without batting an eye. Not every new attraction = Velocicoaster/FoP.

 

[Kerr84]

Huh?

Did you really try to say that Disney can't afford to add more attractions?

If WDW is meeting their attendance goal, then they have no reason to spend to build more attractions. They build to generate revenue and/or to compete.

Places like Disney and Universal don't tend to use their own money when they build. They usually have some type of equity/bond/loan/reclamation/infrastructure deal with the local government to fund bigger projects.

Small attractions like a Tilt A Whirl only cost a little over $300,000 to build. Ride prices are hard to find, but here's an interesting list of used amusement park rides for sale: USED RIDE LIST (intermarkridegroup.com) A used Super Sizzler/Scrambler built in 2016 costs $310,000. While I doubt WDW would ever buy a used amusement ride, the list gives some idea as to what various rides are worth.

When WDW expanded Fantasyland, I'm sure they didn't spend much $ building Storytime with Belle, and WDW has multiple Zamperla rides, those run roughly about the same prices as a Tilt A Whirl. These are: Triceratops Spin, Dumbo, Aladin's Carpets, Astro Orbiter, and Universal's One Fish Two Fish - to name a few.

WDW could easily buy one for both Epcot and one for HS without batting an eye. Not every new attraction = Velocicoaster/FoP.

HS desperately needs some rides that toddlers can enjoy!

 

[Westerner]

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[RamblingMad]

As an offsite visitor, I thought FP+ was pretty worthless. The main things it offered were rides that are easy to do standby and wouldn't save me time or rides I wasn't even interested in. It wasn't worth it to book most things and change my touring plan (wouldn't in the long run save me any time -- would add time instead -- the TP people would even indicate don't use that FP). I'd maybe book 1 FP where there was something I wanted to do and it would save me a little time and it would only be available in the late afternoon. I still after many trips haven't done some of the new headliners due to no FP+ availability and longer standby lines than I was willing to wait in.

I'm going to give Genie+ and LL a try later this month. I have low expectations. But since I thought FP+ was worthless, the worst I'll think is that this is worthless too and that I wasted some money. But if I can get two rides for Genie that I'd like and that would save me some time in line that would be an improvement over FP+. And at least for LL, if the ride is not available (that's what I am expecting except for maybe Remmy in the afternoon or evening at Epcot), at least I don't pay. We are only doing two Disney park days, so don't have as big a commitment (just Epcot and MK this time).

This will also be the first time I don't get to do rope drop. All the onsite people will be able to enter a 1/2 hour before me. Not sure how that will affect me either.

We love the Disney parks, go to Orlando about every two or three years, but on those trips only do one or two Disney parks. Just saying overall, Disney for us is just a small part of the vacation.

I can see onsite visitors (the group FP+ worked to some extent for) would be unhappy to now be competing with all of us for the limited Genie+ ride slots.

Same. When I stayed off site, I could never get good FP+, so I transitioned to DL and only did Universal in Orlando. I'd give them a year to work out the issues with G+ or at least wait for a less busy time of year. I'm waiting for the new rides to open in EPCOT before giving WDW another chance. I'm going to guess that they'll just raise the LL prices to keep it from selling out so fast.

 

[T'Lynn]

Same. When I stayed off site, I could never get good FP+, so I transitioned to DL and only did Universal in Orlando. I'd give them a year to work out the issues with G+ or at least wait for a less busy time of year. I'm waiting for the new rides to open in EPCOT before giving WDW another chance. I'm going to guess that they'll just raise the LL prices to keep it from selling out so fast.

Same for me! I think I read somewhere that 60-60% of park guests are offsite and I think the onsite perks were just a little too much. To have all the access to the best dining and the best rides.

I'm finally staying onsite but I think the perks are excellent. Early entry each day, best dining access, top rides I still have access to first but the majority of rides it's even with other park rests for lighting lanes?

But again, I don't miss what I never had. These boards probably are way higher percentage of onsite guests than what is the reality at the parks.

I'm still not happy about the times changing when you book tho ... that really needs fixing.

 

[RamblingMad]

Same for me! I think I read somewhere that 60-60% of park guests are offsite and I think the onsite perks were just a little too much. To have all the access to the best dining and the best rides.

I'm finally staying onsite but I think the perks are excellent. Early entry each day, best dining access, top rides I still have access to first but the majority of rides it's even with other park rests for lighting lanes?

But again, I don't miss what I never had. These boards probably are way higher percentage of onsite guests than what is the reality at the parks.

I'm still not happy about the times changing when you book tho ... that really needs fixing.

I agree. Folks here are more than willing in general to spend a lot on their WDW trip. I'm pretty cheap, so I have trouble with the pricing I see at WDW compared to what I can get at DL/DCA.

FP+ definitely needed fixing. But I'm not convinced that G+ fixes it yet.

 

[notatallmagic]

Just returned from a six day stay - the last of five trips under our "not to be renewed" Annual Passes.

It's sad really. We would have renewed. Disney was our Happy Place. But this is a mess right now. Prices are higher than ever, and many of the magical touches are still gone.

For the Fast Pass vs. Lightning Lane/Genie argument - we LOVED FastPass. We enjoyed the 90 and 60 day booking and the planning and talking about our trip. We usually got several fun Fast Passes, but we used them well, and if we didn't get a "premier" attraction (7 Dwarves, Avatar, Test Track), them we'd rope drop that one; or end the day with it. We ALWAYS got on everything we wanted to; and ride breakdowns were rare.

This new system blows. Ride breakdowns are common. Cast members are better, but still not the way they used to be - lots of training yet to do. Resort prices are ridiculous, and still no daily cleaning. Ugh. The crowds are insance, and most people seems irritated or downright pissed off. Disney used to be worth the extra cost, and it no longer is.

Best wishes to the folks that are doing a "once a done" trip. I'm sorry for the disappointment you may experience. This didn't used to be Disney.

 

[flipflopmom]

Best wishes to the folks that are doing a "once a done" trip. I'm sorry for the disappointment you may experience. This didn't used to be Disney.

The other sad part is that there are probably a lot of families, like mine, that thought were going on a one and some, absolutely loved it and made many, many more trips back to our Happy Place. I don’t think that will be happening right now for many.

 

[SLThomas318]

The other sad part is that there are probably a lot of families, like mine, that thought were going on a one and some, absolutely loved it and made many, many more trips back to our Happy Place. I don’t think that will be happening right now for many.

This was us! Our first trip was so magical that we bought annual passes and DVC… all of our vacation dollars started going to Disney because it was a such an easy trip. I don’t see many families falling in love with this version of Disney

 

[Mflowers92]

I’m pretty heartbroken about it all. I’m nearly 30 and grew up going to WDW and always dreamed of taking my own children and carrying on that magic. Now planning a trip in October for my DD’s 2nd birthday, and I’m almost a nervous wreck about it.
Trying to keep expectations low just because - toddler, but I’m afraid we won’t be able to do ANYTHING but walk around because our line tolerance will be so short with her. Plus, we will just not be able to afford trips like my family did growing up.

 

[MainMom]

I’m pretty heartbroken about it all. I’m nearly 30 and grew up going to WDW and always dreamed of taking my own children and carrying on that magic. Now planning a trip in October for my DD’s 2nd birthday, and I’m almost a nervous wreck about it.
Trying to keep expectations low just because - toddler, but I’m afraid we won’t be able to do ANYTHING but walk around because our line tolerance will be so short with her. Plus, we will just not be able to afford trips like my family did growing up.

Things can change before October. Hopefully they start making changes to genie+ soon.

 

[roctavia]

Things can change before October. Hopefully they start making changes to genie+ soon.

We go in May and even then, I'm hoping for some improvements before we go, either to G+ or even just adding in more shows/character meets/ return of some of the buffets etc.

 

[MainMom]

We go in May and even then, I'm hoping for some improvements before we go, either to G+ or even just adding in more shows/character meets/ return of some of the buffets etc.

We go May 31-June 8. I am hoping for some changes also.

 

[T'Lynn]

I’m pretty heartbroken about it all. I’m nearly 30 and grew up going to WDW and always dreamed of taking my own children and carrying on that magic. Now planning a trip in October for my DD’s 2nd birthday, and I’m almost a nervous wreck about it.
Trying to keep expectations low just because - toddler, but I’m afraid we won’t be able to do ANYTHING but walk around because our line tolerance will be so short with her. Plus, we will just not be able to afford trips like my family did growing up.

This makes me sad to read so I'm going to attempt to make you less heartbroken.

I went for the first time as an adult with my then 2yo and I wasn't worried at all about wait times because I wasn't riding the headliners with my toddler. I stayed off site so my FP+ times and rides were pretty much useless. Disney is a much different experience and still completely magical with little kids. We were about a half hour in when we found out my kid hated dark rides so it changed up our whole plan but luckily WDW has lots of options for kids to enjoy their day.

I'm thinking/hoping by October that many of the COVID restrictions will be lifted and you'll be concerned more about character meet & greets and the rides that kids enjoy. I'll never forget when my daughter first met Elsa - it was so emotional for me. And it won't be a problem to get G+ most meet & greets and for a few of the rides that the little kids love.

Pro-tip: If you see Dumbo has a long wait time ... go get in line. They have a truly awesome play area where they give you a buzzer like you're in a restaurant. The parents can sit in the dark in the A/C while kids play and then you get back in line when it's your turn - it was amazing. We had a 40 minute break where the 2 yo was happy and we were relaxed.

Will you encounter wait times? Sure. But it's not going to ruin the trip. She'll be more anxious if she picks up that you're too worried about having a good time than actually having a good time. There is still plenty of magic to be had and you'll find it!

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Just returned from a six day stay - the last of five trips under our "not to be renewed" Annual Passes.

It's sad really. We would have renewed. Disney was our Happy Place. But this is a mess right now. Prices are higher than ever, and many of the magical touches are still gone.

For the Fast Pass vs. Lightning Lane/Genie argument - we LOVED FastPass. We enjoyed the 90 and 60 day booking and the planning and talking about our trip. We usually got several fun Fast Passes, but we used them well, and if we didn't get a "premier" attraction (7 Dwarves, Avatar, Test Track), them we'd rope drop that one; or end the day with it. We ALWAYS got on everything we wanted to; and ride breakdowns were rare.

This new system blows. Ride breakdowns are common. Cast members are better, but still not the way they used to be - lots of training yet to do. Resort prices are ridiculous, and still no daily cleaning. Ugh. The crowds are insance, and most people seems irritated or downright pissed off. Disney used to be worth the extra cost, and it no longer is.

Best wishes to the folks that are doing a "once a done" trip. I'm sorry for the disappointment you may experience. This didn't used to be Disney.

We were there for 4 days in Feb and had a great time. Used Genie+/LL$ and it worked great. Ride uptime was great...in fact Splash opened early to our surprise one night and we got a ride...CMs were awesome and we had a few magical touches.

No housekeeping is a bummer for sure. Really don't get that one. Don't need it every day but every other day is needed for sure. Prices are high...yes. That's everywhere though.

 

[notatallmagic]

We were there for 4 days in Feb and had a great time. Used Genie+/LL$ and it worked great. Ride uptime was great...in fact Splash opened early to our surprise one night and we got a ride...CMs were awesome and we had a few magical touches.

No housekeeping is a bummer for sure. Really don't get that one. Don't need it every day but every other day is needed for sure. Prices are high...yes. That's everywhere though.

I so happy you were able to get on Splash! It was down BOTH of our Magic Kingdom days That was the only ride that we wanted to get on that we weren't able to in our six days.