Brightline station to be at Disney Springs

Nice try..but not for us, after a 9 hour flight from UK getting dropped off at DS doesn't beat DME direct to your resort hotel.
Okay, BUT, would you like the idea of being met at Miami airport (which is a much larger hub and provides far cheaper and direct flights from around the world) and having you and your luggage transported onto an express train, dedicated to WDW passengers only?

Just imagine, no more taxis, rental cars or buses.. a clean ride on a smooth train with no stops themed more than M.E. is now; no worrying about delays, traffic jams and stops until you pull into the WDW station because the train could start at the MIA airport and end right at WDW DS. Remember also some US cities and foriegn countries do not fly straight into MCO so people could potentially save money on airfare by flying into the much larger MIA airport instead - money that they would likely spend inside WDW. This means a huge benefit not only to those on the train, but WDW itself. It would also mean that families who now need to change planes in Miami and then endure the cost and time of a second flight or face a long car or uncomfortable bus ride with traffic lights and road construction might just have a huge incentive to take the Disney Express and follow it up with a stay at a WDW on site resort.
 
Yes, they are saying construction is not planned to start until Miami-to-MCO is complete, so allowing 2 years for construction (which is very optimistic), WDW service would be at least 2025. They're saying the full Tampa line won't be open until 2029!

If Disney decides that it wants Guests to use Brightline from the airport, I'm sure they'll figure out a way to make it reasonably easy.
2025?
😥
 
Couldn't they could run dedicated WDW express trains only for WDW visitors arriving at MIA airport (or even MCO)? In that case, a person could board at the Miami airport, and while it would take a few minutes to get all aboard with luggage, a direct run with no stops straight to WDW would be highly efficient and I would think extremely relaxing and enjoyable.
There are several problems with this good idea, and the first one is that Brightline does not serve MIA. Brightline not only does not serve MIA -- a competitor serves MIA, and I'm guessing they have a contract with the airport that would be an issue.

There is a connection between the Intermodal Center at MIA and the downtown Brightline station via our Metrorail. However, that would require some luggage management at both the airport and at the Brightline station.

As it is right now, I personally would just Uber from MIA Arrivals to Brightline Miami for $17 for X or $25 for XL.

There are many, many things that could be done in the future, but there are innumerable hurdles to negotiate.

*****
What I can see being reasonable and doable is a dedicated train from Port Miami to MCO, and DME from there.

Before the MCO link is completed there will be a functioning Brightline Terminal at Port Miami. All of the cruise ships dock prior to 8 AM and begin disembarking passengers. It would not be a big deal to have a train leave at 9-930 AM, and go non-stop to MCO if there were sufficient demand.

That would probably only be on Saturday/Sunday, because that's when the BIG cruise ships (+/-5,000 passengers each) return from their 7-day cruises. That's normally 6-8 ships with 3,500-5,500 passengers each, and there would probably be lots of demand for those Brightlines to Orlando.
 
There are several problems with this good idea, and the first one is that Brightline does not serve MIA. Brightline not only does not serve MIA -- a competitor serves MIA, and I'm guessing they have a contract with the airport that would be an issue.

There is a connection between the Intermodal Center at MIA and the downtown Brightline station via our Metrorail. However, that would require some luggage management at both the airport and at the Brightline station.

As it is right now, I personally would just Uber from MIA Arrivals to Brightline Miami for $17 for X or $25 for XL.

There are many, many things that could be done in the future, but there are innumerable hurdles to negotiate.

*****
What I can see being reasonable and doable is a dedicated train from Port Miami to MCO, and DME from there.

Before the MCO link is completed there will be a functioning Brightline Terminal at Port Miami. All of the cruise ships dock prior to 8 AM and begin disembarking passengers. It would not be a big deal to have a train leave at 9-930 AM, and go non-stop to MCO if there were sufficient demand.

That would probably only be on Saturday/Sunday, because that's when the BIG cruise ships (+/-5,000 passengers each) return from their 7-day cruises. That's normally 6-8 ships with 3,500-5,500 passengers each, and there would probably be lots of demand for those Brightlines to Orlando.
It's just so frusrating with all the new technology of the 21st century that we can't somehow figure out how to simply get direct train tracks from Miami airport to WDW.
 


DME no longer handles incoming luggage and RAC is gone. Carry on roller bags arent allowed in regular Disney buses. Its not just checkable luggage. Disney would need to offer DME like bus service or guest would need to use ride share, taxi or car service.

The train might make it easier for Disney to transition DME from a free service to a pay service, with Disney subsidizing some of the cost
I think they will just get rid of Magical Express.
They can save on labor costs by just having one train operator instead of 100s of bus drivers.
 
I think they will just get rid of Magical Express.
They can save on labor costs by just having one train operator instead of 100s of bus drivers.
Just remember that Disney doesn’t own, nor do they operate, DME. They contract with Mears for that. So the savings would only be on the contract cost. But I do agree that if (and a very big if here) this train does come onto Disney property, and there is a station connected to MCO, this will be the end of DME.

Would be easier to use Disney buses from the train station to transport guests and just have box trucks bring the luggage to the resorts from the station.
 


It's just so frusrating with all the new technology of the 21st century that we can't somehow figure out how to simply get direct train tracks from Miami airport to WDW.
Technology has nothing to do with it. The problem is legal, political, and financial.

There is an existing rail line between Orlando and Tampa. However to make the necessary connections using that line would require numerous approvals from many city, county, state, and possibly federal agencies. At a minimum, the train would probably pass through Orange, Osceola, Polk, Hillsborough, and possibly Lake counties. Some of the area south and southwest of Orlando is also part of the South Florida Water Management District -- so there are important and difficult environmental matters to negotiate.

And then there is the funding question and the financial viability of the whole idea. Due to the pandemic Virgin Trains pulled out of Brightline and is struggling for survival...so funding would be a big question.

Lots of hurdles to get over that have nothing to do with technology. The technology has been around for many years.
 
I get the feeling this is the beginning of the end of the Magical Express (direct from airport to resort)
I really doubt that Disney will get rid of the capability of capturing visitors at the airport and keeping them dependent on Disney for transportation throughout their visit. That "captive audience" strategy has been VERY successful despite the cost of DME, and they have built that cost into their room rates.
 
Technology has nothing to do with it. The problem is legal, political, and financial.

There is an existing rail line between Orlando and Tampa. However to make the necessary connections using that line would require numerous approvals from many city, county, state, and possibly federal agencies. At a minimum, the train would probably pass through Orange, Osceola, Polk, Hillsborough, and possibly Lake counties. Some of the area south and southwest of Orlando is also part of the South Florida Water Management District -- so there are important and difficult environmental matters to negotiate.

And then there is the funding question and the financial viability of the whole idea. Due to the pandemic Virgin Trains pulled out of Brightline and is struggling for survival...so funding would be a big question.

Lots of hurdles to get over that have nothing to do with technology. The technology has been around for many years.
Technology has nothing to do with it. The problem is legal, political, and financial.

There is an existing rail line between Orlando and Tampa. However to make the necessary connections using that line would require numerous approvals from many city, county, state, and possibly federal agencies. At a minimum, the train would probably pass through Orange, Osceola, Polk, Hillsborough, and possibly Lake counties. Some of the area south and southwest of Orlando is also part of the South Florida Water Management District -- so there are important and difficult environmental matters to negotiate.

And then there is the funding question and the financial viability of the whole idea. Due to the pandemic Virgin Trains pulled out of Brightline and is struggling for survival...so funding would be a big question.

Lots of hurdles to get over that have nothing to do with technology. The technology has been around for many years.
The first railroad in America has ONLY been around for 190 years, I guess we just have to wait a bit longer ; )
 
I really doubt that Disney will get rid of the capability of capturing visitors at the airport and keeping them dependent on Disney for transportation throughout their visit. That "captive audience" strategy has been VERY successful despite the cost of DME, and they have built that cost into their room rates.
Even if the got rid of DME, they would still have a "captive audience". MCO to Disney Springs to Disney Resort.

The current "captive audience" at the resorts, there is nothing stopping them from taking a Disney Bus to Disney Springs.
 
Even if the got rid of DME, they would still have a "captive audience". MCO to Disney Springs to Disney Resort.

The current "captive audience" at the resorts, there is nothing stopping them from taking a Disney Bus to Disney Springs.
True, as currently there are no stations proposed between MCO & WDW. There was speculation as to whether Brightline would build a station at Meadow Woods for transfer to SunRail, but the latest proposal has Brightline not stopping there. I would not be surprised if the agreement between Brightline & Disney mandates no intermediate stops.
 
Even if the got rid of DME, they would still have a "captive audience". MCO to Disney Springs to Disney Resort.

The current "captive audience" at the resorts, there is nothing stopping them from taking a Disney Bus to Disney Springs.
That's true. What Disney really wants to prevent is people renting cars and shopping/dining offsite and visiting other attractions.
True, as currently there are no stations proposed between MCO & WDW. There was speculation as to whether Brightline would build a station at Meadow Woods for transfer to SunRail, but the latest proposal has Brightline not stopping there. I would not be surprised if the agreement between Brightline & Disney mandates no intermediate stops.
Right, but there were no intermediate stops originally in South Florida -- just West Palm Beach, Ft. Lauderdale, and downtown Miami. Now we have Port Miami and Aventura stops approved and a Boca stop being negotiated.

I also don't think we can rule out some arrangement with MIA -- it's just not a given because a competitor (Tri-Rail) is already there. That's just a money thing, but the tracks and station are there, with a free people mover connection to/from the terminals across the street.

A direct connection between the airport, downtown, and Port Miami is unlikely, but they could run trains from MIA to MCO/WDW as an adjunct to the downtown/Port Miami leg, with the only stops being FLL, PBI, MCO, and WDW.
 
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It needs to run at least every 30-60 minutes especially if DME is replaced completely. I would hate to wait 2 hours for the next train.

For comparison, the TGV train from CDG airport to Disneyland Paris runs every 30 minutes at peak time and 60 minutes through out the day.
 
A new bond offering document from Brightline has some new info:

"The Company targets commencing revenue service at the station at Disney Springs in the second half of 2023, subject to right of way acquisition, permitting, final design and engineering."

"The Company is planning multiple opportunities for promotions and sales, including family discounts for Disney destined trips."

All references to service to Disney were in relation to travel from South Florida. I could find no mention in the document about potential service between MCO & WDW, except in reference to the potential SunRail expansion. I think it's safe to say that at this time, Brightline is not anticipating carrying passengers locally between MCO & WDW, but leaving that market to SunRail if local leaders decide to go forward with it.

Projected service start dates
ServiceOperational DateStabilization Date
Miami to West Palm Beach service (resumption after COVID-19 suspension)Third quarter of 20212022
Extension to OrlandoFourth quarter of 20222023
Station at Disney SpringsFourth quarter of 20232024
Aventura stationThird quarter of 20212022
Boca Raton stationFirst quarter of 20222023
PortMiami stationFirst quarter of 20222023

Detailed Ridership and Revenue Breakdown at Full System Stabilization (Full Year 2024)
Annual Avg.Ticket
Station PairRidershipFareRevenue
(millions)
West Palm Beach -station at DisneySprings
141,615​
$89.04​
$12.60​
Boca Raton -station at DisneySprings
60,692​
$94.65​
5.7​
Fort Lauderdale -station at DisneySprings
215,794​
$99.82​
21.5​
Aventura -station at DisneySprings
76,877​
$106.11​
8.2​
Miami -station at DisneySprings
179,379​
$110.59​
19.8​
PortMiami -station at DisneySprings
105,566​
$110.59​
11.7​
South Florida stations to station at Disney Springs
779,923
$102.01
$79.60

Construction status
Section
% complete
Expected completion
Airport
50%​
October 2021
Cocoa to Orlando
57%​
June 2022
West Palm Beach to Cocoa
38%​
4th qtr 2022

The document is very large (60MB, over a thousand pages) and is mostly full of financial data and legalese, but it also contains detailed descriptions of the construction between WPB & MCO, rolling stock details, station descriptions (not DS), etc. If you're interested in that, it's at https://emma.msrb.org/P31404863-P31092183-P31501205.pdf. I recommend downloading it in background rather than opening it within the browser.
 
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There are several problems with this good idea, and the first one is that Brightline does not serve MIA. Brightline not only does not serve MIA -- a competitor serves MIA, and I'm guessing they have a contract with the airport that would be an issue.
In the potential future expansions area of document linked above,

"The Company continues to consider adding additional transit connectivity to its South Florida network, including service to Miami International Airport and/or Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport. For connectivity to the Miami International Airport, the Company has approximately four miles of existing east-west track and would potentially utilize its existing South Florida Rail Corridor for the approximate three mile north-south portion that connects into Miami International Airport’s already built intermodal center’s rail platform and station. For service to Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport, the Company rail corridor is already inside the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport’s perimeter, so a station would be the main addition. The Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport station may be a part of the South Florida Commuter Service, as described further below. These two stations would connect the Project to the top three airports in Florida, which had a combined 133.3 million passenger enplanements in 2019."
 
they will seek a government bail out before they get NEAR Orlando airport much less past ....

they haven't run a train since March . . .
 
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they will seek a government bail out before they get NEAR Orlando airport much less past ....

they haven't run a train since March . . .
You may well be right.

When we picked DD up from UCF a week ago, they were working pretty hard on the part of the line along 528 between Cocoa and Orlando, but they have a lot of work left to do. That part of the construction is building a railway from scratch, so it's much more involved that the West Palm to Cocoa part.

I think the West Palm to Cocoa section only requires upgrading the existing FEC tracks -- still a lot of work, but not like building from scratch.
 
You may well be right.

When we picked DD up from UCF a week ago, they were working pretty hard on the part of the line along 528 between Cocoa and Orlando, but they have a lot of work left to do. That part of the construction is building a railway from scratch, so it's much more involved that the West Palm to Cocoa part.

I think the West Palm to Cocoa section only requires upgrading the existing FEC tracks -- still a lot of work, but not like building from scratch.
One might assume so, but I think it's actually the opposite..

The WPB to Cocoa section (Zone 4) is almost 4 times the length of the Cocoa to Orlando segment (Zone 3). They not only have to upgrade some existing track to a higher speed class, but they also have to add a 2nd track along the entire length. That entails clearing brush, scraping off soil, laying 2 layers of ballast, and finally installing the track and signalling equipment. Existing switches and sidings have to be removed or reconfigured.

155 grade crossings need to rebuilt with 2 tracks and enhanced safety features for higher speed operation. Zone 3 has no grade crossings.

20 bridges need to be rebuilt to carry 2 tracks, and one moveable bridge needs to be rehabilitated.

Zone 3 is targeted for June 2022 completion, while Zone 4 construction is expected to continue into 4th quarter of 2022.
 
Wow. Average fare between south FL and DS is > $100/person. At that price I suspect most families will drive.
 

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