Brokeback Mountain - who's seen it?

[MOMOFMNM]

heath says

"I swear Jack..."

at the end...what was he swearing about?????

did Jack's wife have him killed because as his father said he was going to leave with that other guy???? She could not take the shame of being left or married to a gay man????


I think the shirts signify the fact that Ennis can never get close to anyone...and he keeps material items like shirts to have relationships with, just like he kept his dd shirt and jack's shirt...


SO MUCH to think about...

from Heath's perspective HE really makes it seem like he is very in LOVE with Jack, the person, not Jack the man or the gay man, but his soul...but Jack I don't know about...maybe he felt so rejected he went to Mexico and was with others???? trying to replace Heath in some way???

WOW...

and when he told his FIL to sit down...

 

[sajetto]

Ennis and Jack confuse me in this. You are right Ennis seems to love Jack dearly (the whole person) Now that I think about it, it does seem like Jack is trying to replace Ennis in some way. I was a little upset about that I just wanted to yell "cant you see the situation Jack!!! can't you just wait for him!"

When Jack told his FIL to sit down that was classic!!! That guy really deserved it. Why was he always challenging Jack so much? I never really thought that Jack's wife got him killed. I thought it was b/c Jack went to that other guys cabin to go fishing, assumed he was gay, put the moves on him, and the other guy told his friends and they killed him because of it ( I may be totally wrong though)

 

[sajetto]

I know I'm asking too many questions but I also want to know what Ennis meant when he said "I swear Jack."

 

[sotoalf]

There is no evidence that Lureen had Jack killed, either in the story or the film.

 

[TuppenceABag]

I also want to know what Ennis meant when he said "I swear Jack."

I believe you are taking the words "I swear Jack." in the wrong context. Ennis is not saying "I swear" like in "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth" or "Do you solemnly swear". It is more like he is meaning "I swear Jack, you really effected me and everything I do." or "I swear if you were here right now, I would never let you go." Or something to that effect. Another way he could have said it and in keeping with the western theme would have been for him to say "I swanny Jack." or "Well I declare, Jack!" ala Scarlett O'Hara to get his point across.

 

[sajetto]

Another way he could have said it and in keeping with the western theme would have been for him to say "I swanny Jack." or "Well I declare, Jack!" ala Scarlett O'Hara to get his point across.

Well I swanny!!!!

Us southrn' folk don't git these har new fangled pictures 'bout fellers in love. We gotta git help from the new generashun

 

[fan of the TTA]

it's on my list of films to see.

anything for a laugh! lol!

 

[donald...really]

My interpretation to some of the questions:

SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T SEEN IT

Q - With Jake's father I was a little confused. Did he somehow know that Jake was gay? Is this why he wouldn't let Heath have the ashes?

A - Yes, this was my interpretation, that Jack's parents knew. That is why the father didn't let Ennis take the ashes, but the mother let him take the shirts.


Q - How did the bloody shirt from Brokeback end up at Jake's parents house?

A - Jack went back to his parent's house after their first summer together on Brokeback and brought the shirts. Ennis mentions at the end of that summer that he can't believe he left his shirt on the mountain. He didn't leave it. Jack took Ennis' shirt and wrapped it in his own shirt, and hung the two shirts together in the closet as a memory of their summer together, so at least a part of them could "be together" forever, even though Jack and Ennis couldn't be together in real life. When Ennis finds the shirts have been hanging in Jack's closet for 20 years he realizes how much he meant to Jack and how much Jack loved him. If you notice, when you see the shirts again hanging in Ennis' closet, he has switched them, so Jack's shirt is inside Ennis', as if Ennis is hugging Jack, trying to protect him.

This also brings up the last line of the movie "Jack, I swear..." I take it to mean "Jack, I swear I will always love you..." or "Jack, I swear I didn't realize until it was too late..." or something along those lines. The beauty of this movie is much of it is open to interpretation, so everyone can fill in the blanks for themselves.

Q - Did Heath's daughter at the end of the movie end up finding out he was gay?

A - I am not sure about this. She might have known it when she told the waitress who was interested in Ennis that he wasn't the marrying kind.


Q - Why oh why did Jake cheat on Heath with another man in Mexico?!

A - Ennis sent word to Jack that his divorce went through. Jack took this to mean that Ennis was ready to make a commitment to him. You could see how happy Jack was when he was driving to see Ennis. When he got there it was clear that even though Ennis was divorced nothing about their relationship had changed. Ennis was not ready to build a life with Jack. And if nothing had changed even though Ennis was divorced, then chances were it would never change. This hit Jack hard. You can see how upset he is when he is driving away. And in his sadness and greif he sought out "companionship". He might have even done it to spite Ennis. You can see when he picks up the prostitute in Mexico there is no emotion in it.


Q- And my last question, how on earth were they attracted to their wives if they were gay?

A - It happens. Especially when you are 19 or 20, as Jack and Ennis were when they first got married. Plus, they felt they had no choice. In that time and place it was expected of you to get married and have a family. As time went on, their love lives with their wives suffered or became non existent. You could see this in the last bedroom scene with Alma and Ennis right before the divorce scene, where Ennis says that he would be happy to leave her alone. And towards the end Jack mentions that his marriage could be telephoned in, meaning there was no intimacy left.

 

[Tony-NJ]

OK Just reading this made me cry LOL

Q - How did the bloody shirt from Brokeback end up at Jake's parents house?

A - Jack went back to his parent's house after their first summer together on Brokeback and brought the shirts. Ennis mentions at the end of that summer that he can't believe he left his shirt on the mountain. He didn't leave it. Jack took Ennis' shirt and wrapped it in his own shirt, and hung it in the closet as a memory of their summer together, so at least a part of them could "be together" forever, even though Jack and Ennis couldn't be together in real life. If you notice, when you see the shirts again hanging in Ennis' closet, he has switched them, so Jack's shirt is inside Ennis', as if Ennis is hugging Jack, trying to protect him.

 

[sajetto]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for answering those questions!

I did not notice he had changed the arrangement of the shirts. I really think that is a beautiful way to keep the love alive and I really appreciate you giving light to that fact. IT really makes me want to cry

 

[MOMOFMNM]

My interpretation to some of the questions:

SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T SEEN IT

Q - With Jake's father I was a little confused. Did he somehow know that Jake was gay? Is this why he wouldn't let Heath have the ashes?

A - Yes, this was my interpretation, that Jack's parents knew. That is why the father didn't let Ennis take the ashes, but the mother let him take the shirts.


Q - How did the bloody shirt from Brokeback end up at Jake's parents house?

A - Jack went back to his parent's house after their first summer together on Brokeback and brought the shirts. Ennis mentions at the end of that summer that he can't believe he left his shirt on the mountain. He didn't leave it. Jack took Ennis' shirt and wrapped it in his own shirt, and hung it in the closet as a memory of their summer together, so at least a part of them could "be together" forever, even though Jack and Ennis couldn't be together in real life. If you notice, when you see the shirts again hanging in Ennis' closet, he has switched them, so Jack's shirt is inside Ennis', as if Ennis is hugging Jack, trying to protect him.


Q - Did Heath's daughter at the end of the movie end up finding out he was gay?

A - I am not sure about this. She might have known it when she told the waitress who was interested in Ennis that he wasn't the marrying kind.


Q - Why oh why did Jake cheat on Heath with another man in Mexico?!

A - Ennis sent word to Jack that his divorce went through. Jack took this to mean that Ennis was ready to make a commitment to him. You could see how happy Jack was when he was driving to see Ennis. When he got there it was clear that even though Ennis was divorced nothing about their relationship had changed. Ennie was not ready to build a life with Jack. And if nothing had changed even though Ennis was divorced, then chances were it would never change. This hit Jack hard, and in his sadness and greif sought out "companionship". He might have even done it to spite Ennis.


Q- And my last question, how on earth were they attracted to their wives if they were gay?

A - It happens. Especially when you are 19 or 20, as Jack and Ennis were when they first got married. As time went on, their love lives with their wives suffered or became non existent. You could see this in scenes with Alma and Ennis, and Jack mentions that his marriage could be telephoned in, or something like that.

as far as the marriage...my thing is, esp Ennis...he was scared to death of his feelings after what his father showed him what had happened to that one gay man that was killed...I think this is why Ennis went ahead and married Alma anyway...to "cover up" his true feelings...however...I do think he did at first in some way love Alma...and I think her seeing them that day caused her to turn away from him and never open up to him and eventually kill the relationship...they as a married couple had a lot to deal with, poverty, loss, small kids...etc...and we really do not know if she had not seen them if she would have divorced him, Laureen and Jack never divorced...I do not necessarily think he just shut her out, I think she was emotionally and spiritually done with him at that moment on the stairs, and even when she tried to tell him she knew several years later, he would not hear her tell it...

and YES I believe Alma Jr knew he was gay and that is why she said what she said to the waitress...remember the girls were in the truck that day that Jack came to see him after the divorce???? I am sure she picked up on it at some point...

as far as evidence about Laureen, no we had no hard evidence but I picked up that she was covering up how Jack really died...of course SOMEONE had to know he got beaten to death and not the story she told Ennis...that is why I asked that

 

[mickeysaver]

Ok, I guess mine might be the lone bad review of the bunch. First off, I have to say that I have never seen an Ang Lee film that I enjoyed. So, I was really hoping that all the buzz would save me from a bad movie experience. Well, I was wrong. The scenery was beautiful. By far, this was the best part of the whole movie. The romance that everyone has talked about was just not there for me. I think the most romantic part of the whole movie was the shirt thing. But, as you know that really doesn't come into play until the movie is about over. The movie is painfully slow and the story is full of premise points that are just too weak to be believable. Even in the late 60's/early 70's there is no way that a wife waits until after she is divorced to confront the man that has just totally betrayed her by kissing a man! The whole story could have been edited down to about an hour and told as a short story. The sex scenes were just not that great. I think that QAF depicted loving sex between two men in a much more realistic fashion. I can't tell you how disturbed that I was at the spit in the hand lube that was done in the first sex scene. It was beyond tasteless. Ok, so, I am done griping. The best part of the whole movie experience for me other than beautiful scenery, was the fact that I used gift cards to pay for this.....at least it was free, but I still feel like I paid too much. Maggie

 

[mickeysaver]

It was originally published as a 10-page short story in the New Yorker:

Brokeback mountain
Proulx, Annie.

Ok, this validates so many things for me about the film. I knew that they were stretching this way out.....artistic license is not always a good thing. Maggie

 

[simpilotswife]

I just got back from seeing the movie and all I can say is Wow. I came away from this movie feeling bereft for Ennis and Jack. Their unhappiness at not being together was palpable.

 

[Mykelogan]

I just got back from seeing the movie and all I can say is Wow. I came away from this movie feeling bereft for Ennis and Jack. Their unhappiness at not being together was palpable.

You stole my words! hehe I just saw the movie today too and I was holding myself together pretty well until the final moment when Ennis says "Jack, I swear" (Or something to that effect!) and I lost it. The longing, fear, and passion were very much alive in this film for me. Just skimming this thread has me weepy again... silly I know! Luckily a very sweet Lesbian couple stopped on their way out of the theatre to ask if I was ok.

Mike

 

[momsgoofy]

Okay, living in corn country it took a while to get Brokeback Mountain to a theater near here, but finally...got to see it on Super Bowl Sunday...much better use of my time than the game...lol

I loved this movie! It was such a wonderful love story of any kind. Granted the author wrote it as a gay relationship, but it could have easily been an interracial couple or the straight couple from different sides of the tracks...the story works for just about any. I didn't cry, but the tears were welling up there at the end...I really didn't expect Jack to die...maybe I'm naive.

It was funny though after reading through the thread I realized that it seems everyone is having the same kind of questions and discussions about the movie. Today when I walked into work another woman had seen it over the weekend and asked many of the ones mentioned here...

Did Jack love Ennis as much as Ennis loved Jack?
Why did Jack go to Mexico and hook up with a prostitute?
Did Jack's wife know anything...really?
What was up with Jack's folks?
Why did Jack and Ennis marry if they were so in love with each other?

Well, IMO..I think they loved each other deeply, but Jack went to Mexico out of need...he was really hurt when Ennis chose to spend the time with his daughters instead of Jack, so he did what lots of scorned lovers do...run to the easiest set of open arms you can find hoping to ease the pain...and it only makes it hurt worse.

I don't think that Jack's wife, Lureen, really knew much of anything about her husband. She seemed so full of herself and not wanting to upset her daddy...despite everything she did in life. The costume, hair and makeup people did a great job of showing the actress through the 20 years...I loved that last scene when she's telling Ennis about Jack's death. Man! That cheap blonde dye job, fake cheezy red nails and lipstick, complete with cracked lipstick and stains on the teeth. In all Lureen's high falooting ways as the sterotypical Texan Daddy's little rich girl, she was all dried up and heartless...as my momma might have said...she looked rode hard and put a way wet. I don't think she realized what Jack was all about till his death because as she's telling Ennis you see her lip quiver when she realized what Brokeback Mountain meant and she shed the tiniest tear.

I think Jack hooked up with the big ranch hand from that party...the one who invited him to the cabin. I think the good ol' boy knew exactly what Jack was about and was looking for a good time. I think someone caught them and did him in...Jack and Ennis, the couple, was never close to home so he was never seen until the ranch hand and when he was someone killed Jack.

I think Jack's parents knew he was gay. His dad mentioned that Jack always talked about bring Ennis to the farm and fixing it up, helping his folks...but never did. Then his dad tells Ennis that not too long ago Jack started to tell them about this ranch hand fella he was gonna bring up from Texas and fix up the farm...again he never did. But, a man of Jack's dad's age would never have approved...it wasn't his way, so he was gonna keep that boy at home finally by burying Jack in the family plot. But Jack's momma knew...and she was okay with it, but would never say it aloud for fear of her husband...she knew what Ennis meant to Jack...you could tell when she placed her hand on his shoulder and told him she'd kept Jack's room the way it was when he was a little boy. It's why she put the shirts in a bag for Ennis...she wanted him to have a little something of Jack's to remember him...they had the ashes and his room.

And why did they marry women? Well, I think Ennis did love Alma...he was engaged to her when he met Jack...and I think he felt obligated to follow through with the marriage despite what happened with Jack that summer. Ennis had seen the harsh reality of their time thanks to his daddy and it stuck in his mind as if it'd happened that day. He told Jack that last time they were together while Jack still dreamed of the utopian society where all is good. I think Ennis would have been fine married to Alma forever had she not seen him and Jack that day. She couldn't live with it...the lie of her marriage, being dirt poor, working to make ends meet while Ennis was constantly swapping jobs. Now, Jack...why did he marry Lureen? I'm suspecting it may have been a shotgun wedding...that Tbird saw some heavy action on their first night and then boom...she's sitting in a bed with a baby. I think that is partly why her daddy didn't like Jake...plus being a 2 bit rodeo man didn't help when it came to his princess.

Well, that is my commentary for the movie...now I'm gonna read the short story.

 

[sotoalf]

Okay, living in corn country it took a while to get Brokeback Mountain to a theater near here, but finally...got to see it on Super Bowl Sunday...much better use of my time than the game...lol

I loved this movie! It was such a wonderful love story of any kind. Granted the author wrote it as a gay relationship, but it could have easily been an interracial couple or the straight couple from different sides of the tracks...the story works for just about any. I didn't cry, but the tears were welling up there at the end...I really didn't expect Jack to die...maybe I'm naive.

It was funny though after reading through the thread I realized that it seems everyone is having the same kind of questions and discussions about the movie. Today when I walked into work another woman had seen it over the weekend and asked many of the ones mentioned here...

Did Jack love Ennis as much as Ennis loved Jack?
Why did Jack go to Mexico and hook up with a prostitute?
Did Jack's wife know anything...really?
What was up with Jack's folks?
Why did Jack and Ennis marry if they were so in love with each other?

Well, IMO..I think they loved each other deeply, but Jack went to Mexico out of need...he was really hurt when Ennis chose to spend the time with his daughters instead of Jack, so he did what lots of scorned lovers do...run to the easiest set of open arms you can find hoping to ease the pain...and it only makes it hurt worse.

I don't think that Jack's wife, Lureen, really knew much of anything about her husband. She seemed so full of herself and not wanting to upset her daddy...despite everything she did in life. The costume, hair and makeup people did a great job of showing the actress through the 20 years...I loved that last scene when she's telling Ennis about Jack's death. Man! That cheap blonde dye job, fake cheezy red nails and lipstick, complete with cracked lipstick and stains on the teeth. In all Lureen's high falooting ways as the sterotypical Texan Daddy's little rich girl, she was all dried up and heartless...as my momma might have said...she looked rode hard and put a way wet. I don't think she realized what Jack was all about till his death because as she's telling Ennis you see her lip quiver when she realized what Brokeback Mountain meant and she shed the tiniest tear.

I think Jack hooked up with the big ranch hand from that party...the one who invited him to the cabin. I think the good ol' boy knew exactly what Jack was about and was looking for a good time. I think someone caught them and did him in...Jack and Ennis, the couple, was never close to home so he was never seen until the ranch hand and when he was someone killed Jack.

I think Jack's parents knew he was gay. His dad mentioned that Jack always talked about bring Ennis to the farm and fixing it up, helping his folks...but never did. Then his dad tells Ennis that not too long ago Jack started to tell them about this ranch hand fella he was gonna bring up from Texas and fix up the farm...again he never did. But, a man of Jack's dad's age would never have approved...it wasn't his way, so he was gonna keep that boy at home finally by burying Jack in the family plot. But Jack's momma knew...and she was okay with it, but would never say it aloud for fear of her husband...she knew what Ennis meant to Jack...you could tell when she placed her hand on his shoulder and told him she'd kept Jack's room the way it was when he was a little boy. It's why she put the shirts in a bag for Ennis...she wanted him to have a little something of Jack's to remember him...they had the ashes and his room.

And why did they marry women? Well, I think Ennis did love Alma...he was engaged to her when he met Jack...and I think he felt obligated to follow through with the marriage despite what happened with Jack that summer. Ennis had seen the harsh reality of their time thanks to his daddy and it stuck in his mind as if it'd happened that day. He told Jack that last time they were together while Jack still dreamed of the utopian society where all is good. I think Ennis would have been fine married to Alma forever had she not seen him and Jack that day. She couldn't live with it...the lie of her marriage, being dirt poor, working to make ends meet while Ennis was constantly swapping jobs. Now, Jack...why did he marry Lureen? I'm suspecting it may have been a shotgun wedding...that Tbird saw some heavy action on their first night and then boom...she's sitting in a bed with a baby. I think that is partly why her daddy didn't like Jake...plus being a 2 bit rodeo man didn't help when it came to his princess.

Well, that is my commentary for the movie...now I'm gonna read the short story.

Sounds about right. Wait till you read the story: it's even more of a heartbreaker.

 

[Spaceship Earthfan]

Can the short story be read anywhere online?

 

[DVCajun]

Can the short story be read anywhere online?

Yes: http://lamusclepower.tribe.net/thread/45024476-10bb-4e43-b09d-5e95dce67ef4

Honestly, could this story be any more depressing? I can get that feeling from watching the news, I don't need it in my entertainment too.

 

[SeattleRedBear]

Honestly, could this story be any more depressing? I can get that feeling from watching the news, I don't need it in my entertainment too.

This is exactly the reason Husbear will never go to see it. Having been raised Catholic (he has the indelible mark on his soul but luckily has grown past the homophobic interpretation of his faith) and through a marriage with two children, he just doesn't want to revisit the pain and repression.