Can overcrowding be reduced at Disneyland?

[SMD]

Here we go again. Blame the APs.

 

[pindecisive]

That will NEVER happen, and not because of greed. It would be a public safety and logistical nightmare. The park still has a max capacity for safety purposes of about 80,000 guests. If you had a free day, I would estimate you would have at least 400,000 trying to get in, if not more. People would be lined up at the esplanade the day before or earlier to ensure they would get in, traffic would be backed up for miles, tempers would be running high, fights, chaos, trampling.......I can categorically say, without a shred of doubt, that there will never be a free day at Disneyland. The reason it works at museums is that demand is so low for those to begin with that making it free doesn't increase demand past a manageable point. Disney already has crowding issues with the prices high as they are; making it free would be irresponsible from many standpoints.

Oh my apologies, the free passes would be given out prior to the day of. Similar to a lottery, people and their families who have not gone the rest of the year would be granted free admittance. Disney would never and should never do a first come first served entry.

 

[lostangel52577]

My preferred method of crowd control is everyone who complains about crowds stays home therefore freeing up the park for the rest of us. I'm always amused and baffled that when people talk about lowering crowds they never assume they are the people who will no longer be able to go. It's always those other people who need to be eliminated. Crowds suck but I don't deserve to be let into Disneyland any more than anyone else.

I'd also add that without APs Disneyland is a much different, and not necessarily for the better, park. So before people scream for less APs ask yourselves what that will mean for the operation of the park.

 

[courtneybeth]

Disclaimer: Probably an unpopular opinion, sorry if anyone is offended:

The only change I would make is getting rid of the payment plan system for annual passes. Annual passes are not the problem and encourage repeat visits, which equates to more money spent inside the park on food, souvenirs or special events. Payment plans are the problem as it would make it more difficult for people to shell out $500-$700 per person at the time of purchase, and multiply that for a family and you get the idea. I get why it was introduced - economic recession and all. But that would definitely ease the issue of attendance.

 

[sheetz]

There's always this belief that just because guests don't like crowds that Disney must think it's a problem. In fact Disney loves the crowds, and it's only really a problem (for Disney) on a handful of days out of the year.

 

[Metalliman98]

Here we go again. Blame the APs.

I don't blame the APs for taking advantage of 12 months no interest financing or discounted lower tier passes, but you can't deny that those offers have greatly contributed to overcrowding. People say "the lower tiers are all blocked out for the busy times anyway"......exactly! there is no off season anymore because all of the lower-tier APs can't go anytime but the off season! APs (of which I am one, BTW) aren't the sole reason for overcrowding, and shouldn't be vilified for taking advantage of what Disney offers, but their numbers are undoubtedly driving much of the crowding.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

Why not just eliminate all premium APs? Isn't that the easiest way to control AP attendance by controlling blackout dates? -- Suzanne

 

[SMD]

I don't blame the APs for taking advantage of 12 months no interest financing or discounted lower tier passes, but you can't deny that those offers have greatly contributed to overcrowding. People say "the lower tiers are all blocked out for the busy times anyway"......exactly! there is no off season anymore because all of the lower-tier APs can't go anytime but the off season! APs (of which I am one, BTW) aren't the sole reason for overcrowding, and shouldn't be vilified for taking advantage of what Disney offers, but their numbers are undoubtedly driving much of the crowding.

First, except for a few days per year (and a few more than usual this year) I don't think the parks are over crowded. Disney wants crowds. Disney wants revenue. Disney is perfectly happy to take the APs money in installments in exchange for the money they spend in the parks. If not for AP's money the parks wouldn't be sustainable all year long for the less frequent guests to show up when they do for their visits. Most of the people complaining that the APs ruin their once per year or less frequent trips would have APs if they lived closer, airfare were cheaper, had more free time, or any number of their own personal roadblocks. Disney can't be expected to keep the gates open 365 days per year (in fact, before they offered annual passes the park wasn't open 365 days per year) just for infrequent guests to avoid crowds during the more popular times of the year. No theme park operates that way. People want a 6th and 7th day for $5-15 like they used to get. So basically they want more days at an extremely low rate. Many APs break down to an average of more than that per visit. The majority of lower level APs are not spending 50 or more park days per year and the majority of the higher levels are not spending 100+ days per year in the park. Are the out of town guests really claiming that they avoid all tourist attractions where they live, don't take advantage of local discounts, and expect those businesses to rely on tourism dollars alone? They can run their own businesses how they see fit, but Disney's business model seems to be working for them, as the hotels are frequently full and according to all the complaints, so are the parks.

 

[Tyggress]

Disclaimer: Probably an unpopular opinion, sorry if anyone is offended:

The only change I would make is getting rid of the payment plan system for annual passes. Annual passes are not the problem and encourage repeat visits, which equates to more money spent inside the park on food, souvenirs or special events. Payment plans are the problem as it would make it more difficult for people to shell out $500-$700 per person at the time of purchase, and multiply that for a family and you get the idea. I get why it was introduced - economic recession and all. But that would definitely ease the issue of attendance.

I agree, and we are a family of Premium and Deluxe AP Holders!

 

[Metalliman98]

First, except for a few days per year (and a few more than usual this year) I don't think the parks are over crowded. Disney wants crowds. Disney wants revenue. Disney is perfectly happy to take the APs money in installments in exchange for the money they spend in the parks. If not for AP's money the parks wouldn't be sustainable all year long for the less frequent guests to show up when they do for their visits. Most of the people complaining that the APs ruin their once per year or less frequent trips would have APs if they lived closer, airfare were cheaper, had more free time, or any number of their own personal roadblocks. Disney can't be expected to keep the gates open 365 days per year (in fact, before they offered annual passes the park wasn't open 365 days per year) just for infrequent guests to avoid crowds during the more popular times of the year. No theme park operates that way. People want a 6th and 7th day for $5-15 like they used to get. So basically they want more days at an extremely low rate. Many APs break down to an average of more than that per visit. The majority of lower level APs are not spending 50 or more park days per year and the majority of the higher levels are not spending 100+ days per year in the park. Are the out of town guests really claiming that they avoid all tourist attractions where they live, don't take advantage of local discounts, and expect those businesses to rely on tourism dollars alone? They can run their own businesses how they see fit, but Disney's business model seems to be working for them, as the hotels are frequently full and according to all the complaints, so are the parks.

We don't disagree. The overcrowding is a guest problem, not a Disney problem, as I said in a previous post. No changes will ever be made unless the guest experience due to crowding deteriorates to the point where it affects attendance. Disney wants the crowds because it means more money. What we're discussing is a hypothetical "if I were in charge and didn't care about shareholders" scenario, which isn't realistic. But the crowds are real, and at least anecdotally a good portion of the "problem" began when they started offering monthly payments for APs. Makes sense. There are multitudes of people who cannot afford things upfront but can manage them on a payment plan. Brilliant business move by Disney. Great for those who couldn't otherwise afford to go. But does it deteriorate the overall guest experience? I believe so. It won't be changed, to be sure, but that doesn't mean it hasn't contributed to overcrowding.

The problem isn't so much crowding on a given day. I don't think a busy summer or Christmas day is any more crowded now than it was 5 years ago. It's the loss of the "offseason" that people are noticing, in part due to the AP monthly option but also other things like all the runDisney stuff and other special events. Again, hooray for Disney, they made a great business move by effectively eliminating off season, but the guests feel the pain in terms of paying more and doing less. I am not complaining about it; we just got APs and we will probably go several times regardless. APs are not the issue. Monthly payment for APs are (part of) the issue.

 

[SMD]

What we're discussing is a hypothetical "if I were in charge and didn't care about shareholders" scenario, which isn't realistic.

This is not a hypothetical discussion. The blame the APs, blame the lower level APs, blame the "poor" people who use the payment plan happens in threads here almost weekly. There was a time when the economy was down, people weren't making trips, or spending money on theme parks, it's not the case for everyone anymore.

Great for those who couldn't otherwise afford to go. But does it deteriorate the overall guest experience? I believe so.

The experience of the people you are blaming for "overcrowding" and ruining others experience appear to not be having a diminished experience.

Again, hooray for Disney, they made a great business move by effectively eliminating off season, but the guests feel the pain in terms of paying more and doing less.

Doing less since when? Not since before FP. Lines used to be hours long, and you either had to wait or not go on the ride. Many people may have taken their first trips when all FPs were disconnected and could be hoarded and used all at once at the end of the day, but that was never how they system was intended to work, and wasn't sustainable. Yet people still expect to be able to hop between headliners in a short period. It's not going to happen, and that's not due to "overcrowding" or monthly payments. Disney has stumbled on several promotions and limited time offerings that bring people into the park. And with social media, which Disney has used to their advantage they've gotten people interested in what's happening in the parks. It's not longer the case that only people who spend lots of time on Disney trip planning sites know all of the things happening in the park and are therefore able to fit everything in. There is more knowledge and more demand for all attractions. Being admitted to the park does not entitle a person to do every attraction or have every experience. It's the same for everyone.

APs are not the issue. Monthly payment for APs are (part of) the issue.

You don't know that. The introduction of the monthly payments coincided with Disney starting to promote the availability of APs. Disney doesn't release numbers on APs or how many pay monthly.

 

[JadeDarkstar]

1. Bring back the 7 day passes.
2. More black out days for Ap's
3. They need to open up some of main street, and adventure land. These two areas seem to me to get the most crowded.
4. I do think less strollers would help so a stroller check for some ppl may be worth looking in to it.
5. I guess they could get rid the payment plan but I actually wish they had those for all over the us. I would have got one. (but if they got rid the payment plan they need to bring back 7 day passes.
6. Let the parks stay open longer and have two or more shows a night.
7. FP+, but they need to rework it for dl. I say 2 rides before noon. 2 rides after noon and 1 chr meet and 1 show a day. Give chairs for the shows set them up and let ppl sit down. This would actually cut down on some crowds.
8. Open a third park

 

[jani3]

It looks like your first 2 options just became a reality.

 

[JadeDarkstar]

I was saying that in an ap raised post earlier

 

[jlmarr]

My vote would be for them to add a third gate. The owner of the Angels Who Play In Anaheim has been negotiating for a better stadium leasing deal with the city of Anaheim - he wants them to throw in the surrounding parking lot in a long term lease for $1/year so he can develop it, and threatening to move the team if he doesn't get it. I think Disney would offer at least $2, maybe $3 and that area would be perfect for a third park. And not too far from the Toy Story parking lot - take a look at Google Maps someday and you'll see it's a straight shot over the I-5 on the already redeveloped Gene Autry Way all the way to Haster Street where there is an apartment complex. About 100 yards west is the Toy Story lot. Actually the 3rd park would use the stadium parking for it's own, but that's how close this site is for the purpose of park hopping.

 

[PrincessShea]

Introduce age limits for strollers/ create stroller check to give needed space.

I like this suggestion especially. It's almost impossible to walk through certain thoroughfares because of stroller parking. They are 4 deep along the Rivers of America in the morning and afternoon. And of course they are used as battering rams when in use, making it hard to walk when it's only moderately crowded. I totally agree on age limits and perhaps even a surcharge to bring them in...but people would flip out and scream that their healthy, able-bodied 7 year old needs it for some reason, so I can't see it happening (even though it should).

 

[jrsharp21]

I also say open a third park and make it away from the current DLR. This way it will move people away from the current DLR at least for part of the day. And people may be inclined to stay at that park all of the day if it was away from the current DLR.

 

[Jimbo1229]

I understand Disney is a business and they need to make money, but the quality of the park and the number of complaints will hopefully start to hurt them. Yes the park is setting record attendance but you also have to think how many more people their are in this world compared to 10-20 years ago. The mainstream media and social media is shoving everything Disney down our throats. I have been going to Disneyland since the 80's and I don't enjoy going as much as I used to. We only do a trip every 5-7 years as its not as enjoyable anymore.
I feel if they get rid of AP's and charge the same rate it will reduce the crowds and people wont use it as a hangout anymore. My Father was a AP holder for years, so I have no problem with them. I feel bad for people that fly across the world to come here and get to experience a over crowded run down park. Ive also been a supporter of putting a park in texas, its central to the country for the most part and it would take away a lot of the crodwing. Instead they put in shanghai and we all know how that's going. delay after delay

 

[LizzyS]

I think you have to admit that the AP payment plan option has certainly had to increase the number of APs that are out there and visiting the parks frequently. I have nothing against AP holders, truthfully, but it's ridiculous to pretend that a good number of people in the parks aren't locals at any given time. Almost every time I buy something at a restaurant in the parks I'm asked by the cashier "Are you an annual pass holder?" That alone leads me to believe that the answer is "yes" for quite a good number of people that go through the line or they wouldn't bother asking.

Anyway, overcrowding IS a problem when it starts to diminish the guest experience and it IS something Disney should address and I have no doubt in my mind that they continuously look into that as a problem. You don't get as far and big as they've gotten without doing a good number of things correctly.