CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My governor gave a bit more information about vaccine distribution. First phase would be front-line health care workers with a high risk of coronavirus exposure. That includes workers in nursing homes but it would also include nursing home residents even though they are not health care workers.

Second phase would be more essential workers which includes first responders, meatpacking plant workers and grocery store employees. I'm sure there are more included in the essential workers but that's the ones called out in the local news story I read.

Meatpacking, while not responsible for many deaths, represents the 3rd largest amount of cases in my state by cluster type. The highest is long-term care facilities (responsible for almost 43% of the death rate in the state) by cluster type and behind that is corrections facilities (also not responsible for many deaths) by cluster type.

 

[Jonfw2]

But haven't people gotten the virus twice? Wouldn't that indicate that immunity doesn't last years? Is immunity from a vaccine stronger than naturally acquired immunity?

millions worldwide have gotten Covid and there are less than 100 confirmed cases of reinfection.

 

[Colleen27]

But haven't people gotten the virus twice? Wouldn't that indicate that immunity doesn't last years? Is immunity from a vaccine stronger than naturally acquired immunity?

Not necessarily. Right now, reinfection appears to be rare and most of the sources I'm reading believe it to be a matter of some people not having a robust/normal immune response to their initial infection rather than an indicator of how long "normal" immunity lasts. But yes, vaccine immunity can sometimes be stronger than naturally acquired immunity because the vaccine relies on a calibrated exposure (and, in the case of the leading candidates right now, a second exposure as well), so it solves the issue that can arise with natural immunity where those who have very mild experiences with an illness don't mount a full/robust immune response. It is no different than those unlucky few that those of us of a certain age likely knew as children who had a very mild chicken pox experience only to catch it again later.

 

[Jonfw2]

https://www.bbc.com/news/54893437

 

[sam_gordon]

https://www.bbc.com/news/54893437

Of course that's what they'll say.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Does anyone know what the deal is going to be with respect to the first batch of vaccines to go out in December. There will be 40 million doses. Are they holding back 20 million so the first group is sure to get the second dose? Or are they going to vaccinate 40 million people confident that the supply will be there 3 weeks later? Is it completely up to the states?

I saw Dr. Gottleib on Face the Nation and he suggested we should be vaccinating the 40 million people...even if there is a small risk that the supply won't be there for the booster. He said that the first dose will provide some level of protection, and that we should be going for that.

He also talked about how bad things will get in the next few weeks, that we're going to see 3,000 deaths a day as an average soon. Dr. Birx had a similar message saying that this wasn't just going to be the worst public health crisis in our history, but the worst crisis in our history....period. I mean, we all knew it was going to get bad, and so I guess they're just trying to prepare the public for how bad it is going to get. And I think that's why Gottleib is calling for 40 million to be vaccinated and is counting on that supply being there when the second dose is due.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I saw Dr. Gottleib on Face the Nation and he suggested we should be vaccinating the 40 million people...even if there is a small risk that the supply won't be there for the booster. He said that the first dose will provide some level of protection, and that we should be going for that.

That's interesting because a news story came out a few days ago saying the opposite:

Adding in prior part of their comment for context: "The key to reassuring the public lies in proper messaging, said William Moss, executive director of the International Vaccine Access Center at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. The 2 to 10 percent of participants reporting reactions in the trials would translate to a lot more people once millions are getting vaccinated, Moss said.

“We’re behind on the communications,” he said, partly because the process of developing these vaccines has gone so quickly and much of the trial data has not been made public yet. He added: “It’s kind of the surprise and the unknown that creates the fear and perhaps leads to a decision — I hope this doesn’t happen — not to get the second dose." "Getting both doses of the covid vaccines is critical, experts said. The first shot acts as a priming dose for the immune system and is not believed to offer much protection on its own."




https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...bebac0-342c-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html (though found elsewhere) The article was about disclosing and being good about it for side effects. Basically giving the public the information.

 

[dvcgirl67]

That's interesting because a news story came out a few days ago saying the opposite:

Adding in prior part of their comment for context: "The key to reassuring the public lies in proper messaging, said William Moss, executive director of the International Vaccine Access Center at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. The 2 to 10 percent of participants reporting reactions in the trials would translate to a lot more people once millions are getting vaccinated, Moss said.

“We’re behind on the communications,” he said, partly because the process of developing these vaccines has gone so quickly and much of the trial data has not been made public yet. He added: “It’s kind of the surprise and the unknown that creates the fear and perhaps leads to a decision — I hope this doesn’t happen — not to get the second dose." "Getting both doses of the covid vaccines is critical, experts said. The first shot acts as a priming dose for the immune system and is not believed to offer much protection on its own."




https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...bebac0-342c-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html (though found elsewhere) The article was about disclosing and being good about it for side effects. Basically giving the public the information.

Interesting. I was surprised that Gottlieb was advocating for vaccinating 40 million people with the chance that there won't be enough supply for the second dose. He's on the board of Pfizer, so I guess he's confident that the supply will be there.

And yes, we're going to be hearing about a lot of people having side effects...etc. That news will be everywhere.

 

[DeniseJH]

Not necessarily. Right now, reinfection appears to be rare and most of the sources I'm reading believe it to be a matter of some people not having a robust/normal immune response to their initial infection rather than an indicator of how long "normal" immunity lasts. But yes, vaccine immunity can sometimes be stronger than naturally acquired immunity because the vaccine relies on a calibrated exposure (and, in the case of the leading candidates right now, a second exposure as well), so it solves the issue that can arise with natural immunity where those who have very mild experiences with an illness don't mount a full/robust immune response. It is no different than those unlucky few that those of us of a certain age likely knew as children who had a very mild chicken pox experience only to catch it again later.

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[DeniseJH]

Most of the trials are 2 years long. I assume they expect the immunity to last somewhere less than that amount of time.

It will take as long as it takes for the vaccinated group to start losing antibodies or starts getting infected, I guess.

My apologies for thinking this was a "mocking" response.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Interesting. I was surprised that Gottlieb was advocating for vaccinating 40 million people with the chance that there won't be enough supply for the second dose. He's on the board of Pfizer, so I guess he's confident that the supply will be there.

Yeah I don't really know what they will do. But if it's really paramount for people to get that second dosage with a 3ish week time period for Pfizer...I'm just not sure we should be putting all the eggs on the first shipments spreading the resources thin. We obviously would prefer fully vaccinated people than only partially vaccinated.

I think tracking and ensuring 2nd shot will be much easier with the first round with healthcare workers and long-term facility residents and workers but once you start getting to other groups that control is less and less. I think once distribution has had a few rounds kinks are more worked out though.

In the article I pasted in they said they were concerned with the shingles vaccine about the 2 dosages but "75 to 80 percent of people have gotten their second doses on time." and that was because "it turns out that pharmacists and doctors did a great job of telling people what to expect,” “We underestimated the motivation of the public to protect themselves from shingles, and my hope is that if we prepare the public appropriately, they will be very motivated to protect themselves from covid-19" I hope that pans out for COVID but the undertaking is a lot more as shingles is for only a subset of the population and shingles and its vaccine was never put under this type of microscope and pressure.

And yes, we're going to be hearing about a lot of people having side effects...etc. That news will be everywhere.

I was reading a different article yesterday that was trying to make sure people distinguish between side effects and adverse effects and what those two terms actually mean. A lot of people's concerns here on the Board about the vaccine actually fall more on the adverse effects. Side effects should be expected though. https://news.yahoo.com/side-effects-covid-19-vaccine-163742294.html (available elsewhere was just the quickest source I found)

 

[mefordis]

Yeah I don't really know what they will do. But if it's really paramount for people to get that second dosage with a 3ish week time period for Pfizer...I'm just not sure we should be putting all the eggs on the first shipments spreading the resources thin. We obviously would prefer fully vaccinated people than only partially vaccinated.

I think tracking and ensuring 2nd shot will be much easier with the first round with healthcare workers and long-term facility residents and workers but once you start getting to other groups that control is less and less. I think once distribution has had a few rounds kinks are more worked out though.

In the article I pasted in they said they were concerned with the shingles vaccine about the 2 dosages but "75 to 80 percent of people have gotten their second doses on time." and that was because "it turns out that pharmacists and doctors did a great job of telling people what to expect,” “We underestimated the motivation of the public to protect themselves from shingles, and my hope is that if we prepare the public appropriately, they will be very motivated to protect themselves from covid-19" I hope that pans out for COVID but the undertaking is a lot more as shingles is for only a subset of the population and shingles and its vaccine was never put under this type of microscope and pressure.


I was reading a different article yesterday that was trying to make sure people distinguish between side effects and adverse effects and what those two terms actually mean. A lot of people's concerns here on the Board about the vaccine actually fall more on the adverse effects. Side effects should be expected though. https://news.yahoo.com/side-effects-covid-19-vaccine-163742294.html (available elsewhere was just the quickest source I found)

Adverse events will be incredibly difficult to prove. I'm reading about infertility being a possible one but how could anyone prove their infertility in 2 years was caused by this vaccine?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Adverse events will be incredibly difficult to prove. I'm reading about infertility being a possible one but how could anyone prove their infertility in 2 years was caused by this vaccine?

I hadn't seen that yet. Do you happen to have a link for that?

From what the article I posted said they haven't found any adverse effects within the study so far.

I do also know women who are pregnant or trying to get pregnant are not yet cleared for getting the vaccine (and have not been included for the trials) but this isn't uncommon either for this to be the case. That's way different than a claim that infertility is an adverse effect of the vaccine.

 

[mefordis]

I hadn't seen that yet. Do you happen to have a link for that?

From what the article I posted said they haven't found any adverse effects within the study so far.

I do also know women who are pregnant or trying to get pregnant are not yet cleared for getting the vaccine (and have not been included for the trials) but this isn't uncommon either for this to be the case. That's way different than a claim that infertility is an adverse effect of the vaccine.

I am not stating it causes infertility. I don't think anyone can state this for sure since it hasn't been tested long enough. I am stating that I have come across this several times so far as a possible risk. Mostly I see it on Facebook posts and quotes from doctors, etc. Everyone must do their own research.

 

[Jonfw2]

So..you read on Facebook that it can’t be proven that the new vaccine doesn’t cause infertility?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I am not stating it causes infertility. I don't think anyone can state this for sure since it hasn't been tested long enough. I am stating that I have come across this several times so far as a possible risk. Mostly I see it on Facebook posts and quotes from doctors, etc. Everyone must do their own research.

I wasn't thinking you were saying it since you said you were reading about it. I'm guessing what you're reading is false stuff or things said and run with, without having more information. I did run across on my quick search from august about "A video being shared on social media makes the false claim that a vaccine for COVID-19 has already been made and consists of chemicals that promote infertility." but that was all I could find.

 

[mefordis]

So..you read on Facebook that it can’t be proven that the new vaccine doesn’t cause infertility?

There have been claims that the vaccine can cause infertility due to the vaccine containing a spike protein called syncytin-1, vital for the formation of human placenta in women. If the vaccine works so that the recipient forms an immune response AGAINST the spike protein, they are also training the female body to attack syncytin-1, which could lead to infertility in women of an unspecified duration.

The point is how can a long term adverse reaction even be proven? The vast majority of claims get dismissed in vaccine court, which is where you would have to go to file in the first place since drug companies are granted immunity from vaccine injuries.

So, when someone says they are waiting to see if the vaccine is safe from long term side effects, how will we even know if it produces any at all?

 

[Jonfw2]

There have been claims that the vaccine can cause infertility due to the vaccine containing a spike protein called syncytin-1, vital for the formation of human placenta in women. If the vaccine works so that the recipient forms an immune response AGAINST the spike protein, they are also training the female body to attack syncytin-1, which could lead to infertility in women of an unspecified duration.

The point is how can a long term adverse reaction even be proven? The vast majority of claims get dismissed in vaccine court, which is where you would have to go to file in the first place since drug companies are granted immunity from vaccine injuries.

So, when someone says they are waiting to see if the vaccine is safe from long term side effects, how will we even know if it produces any at all?

can you provide a source?

 

[mefordis]

can you provide a source?

There is an epidemiologist and public health expert in Germany, Dr Wolfgang Wodarg, who is co-petitioning for a suspension of all SARS CoV 2 vaccine studies, in particular the BioNtech/Pfizer study on BNT162b (EudraCT number 2020-002641-42). due to a list of safety concerns, the fertility issue being one of them, including chronic and autoimmune diseases such as MS. You can find them outlined in the link to the petition.

Animal trials in the past produced antibodies to the corona virus, but when they injected the animals with the virus the virus proliferated faster which led to an over active immune system, or cytokine storm leading at times to upper respiratory conditions and sometimes organ failure (which happened in cat trials).

https://dryburgh.com/mike-yeadon-coronavirus-vaccine-safety-concerns-petition/

 

[Jonfw2]

Interesting...sounds like these gentlemen represent a very small minority. But we shall see.