Cities outside Northern San Francisco

[ADisneyFamilyof5]

DH has an opportunity to work right near San Fran. I am wondering if anyone can give me tips on some nice, safe cities right outside Northern San Fran. I am loooking at Richmond, San Rafael, Novato and possibly Vellejo (this is the furthest out we would want to go). TIA!

 

[wanderlust7]

In general, Richmond is not that safe. It was #4 as Bay Area's most dangerous cities in 2013 (Vallejo is #6). I have a friend who lives in Hercules, north of Richmond, it's pretty nice.
http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/11/11/what-are-the-bay-areas-10-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities/

Crime statistics here:
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/

 

[bcla]

DH has an opportunity to work right near San Fran. I am wondering if anyone can give me tips on some nice, safe cities right outside Northern San Fran. I am loooking at Richmond, San Rafael, Novato and possibly Vellejo (this is the furthest out we would want to go). TIA!

San Rafael and Novato are in Marin County, which is generally very expensive. However, these are the largest cities. San Rafael is generally upscale, although there are some notorious parts of town such as the Canal Area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_Area,_San_Rafael,_California

Novato isn't that bad, but if you're working in San Francisco it's pretty far away. At least if you're living in San Rafael, there's easy access to Golden Gate Ferry.

Richmond has a reputation for high crime, although it's primarily surrounding the downtown area and some of the more notorious suburban areas. There was a notorious housing project there called Kennedy Manor that's since been torn down. The Point Richmond area across from the Chevron refinery is actually pretty nice. It started out as the "company town" for the old Standard Oil of California and it's actually pretty low crime. I grew up near Richmond, and saw its decline over the years. It all seemed to start when businesses started leaving downtown after Hilltop Mall (now considered a "ghetto mall") was built.

Close to Richmond there are lower crime areas such as most of El Cerrito, East Richmond Heights, Kensington, Albany, and most of Berkeley.

 

[ADisneyFamilyof5]

In general, Richmond is not that safe. It was #4 as Bay Area's most dangerous cities in 2013 (Vallejo is #6). I have a friend who lives in Hercules, north of Richmond, it's pretty nice.
http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/11/11/what-are-the-bay-areas-10-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities/

Crime statistics here:
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/

Thanks, that is what I was looking for.

San Rafael and Novato are in Marin County, which is generally very expensive. However, these are the largest cities. San Rafael is generally upscale, although there are some notorious parts of town such as the Canal Area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_Area,_San_Rafael,_California

Novato isn't that bad, but if you're working in San Francisco it's pretty far away. At least if you're living in San Rafael, there's easy access to Golden Gate Ferry.

Richmond has a reputation for high crime, although it's primarily surrounding the downtown area and some of the more notorious suburban areas. There was a notorious housing project there called Kennedy Manor that's since been torn down. The Point Richmond area across from the Chevron refinery is actually pretty nice. It started out as the "company town" for the old Standard Oil of California and it's actually pretty low crime. I grew up near Richmond, and saw its decline over the years. It all seemed to start when businesses started leaving downtown after Hilltop Mall (now considered a "ghetto mall") was built.

Close to Richmond there are lower crime areas such as most of El Cerrito, East Richmond Heights, Kensington, Albany, and most of Berkeley.

You are always a wealth of info! Now I know where to avoid, I can start looking into San Rafael. Thanks!

 

[Serial]

Where specifically will your husband be working? There is no "Northern San Francisco" like there is a city called "South San Francisco." You mentioned cities in Marin County, which is considered the "North Bay" and is north of SF across the Golden Gate Bridge, and cities in Contra Costa County, which is technically part of the "East Bay" and commute-wise to and from SF would require crossing either the Bay Bridge or the Golden Gate Bridge and then the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge. Commuting has gotten really bad in the Bay Area in the last 2-3 years with the resurgent economy, so you'll want to consider the commute wherever you choose to live.

Agreed that you should avoid the city of Richmond (not to be confused with the Richmond neighborhood in SF). Marin County is generally considered affluent and safe, but there are pockets of low income housing and crime around Marin City. I've heard mixed things about San Rafael and Novato, which are "big" towns by Marin County standards, primarily because these towns are more "diverse" than the rest of the county (the horror!) but also the schools aren't as great as those in more tony towns like Mill Valley, Kentfield, Larkspur and Corte Madera.

 

[bcla]

Where specifically will your husband be working? There is no "Northern San Francisco" like there is a city called "South San Francisco." You mentioned cities in Marin County, which is considered the "North Bay" and is north of SF across the Golden Gate Bridge, and cities in Contra Costa County, which is technically part of the "East Bay" and commute-wise to and from SF would require crossing either the Bay Bridge or the Golden Gate Bridge and then the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge. Commuting has gotten really bad in the Bay Area in the last 2-3 years with the resurgent economy, so you'll want to consider the commute wherever you choose to live.

Agreed that you should avoid the city of Richmond (not to be confused with the Richmond neighborhood in SF). Marin County is generally considered affluent and safe, but there are pockets of low income housing and crime around Marin City. I've heard mixed things about San Rafael and Novato, which are "big" towns by Marin County standards, primarily because these towns are more "diverse" than the rest of the county (the horror!) but also the schools aren't as great as those in more tony towns like Mill Valley, Kentfield, Larkspur and Corte Madera.

Not everyone is working in San Francisco. When my mom lost her long-time job in San Francisco, she actually found a couple of jobs in Marin before she retired. Marin has some fairly well known companies, including Lucasfilm (although they've moved most of their operations to San Francisco), Restoration Hardware, etc. Some of the major employers are government and healthcare, which generally won't be centralized in the biggest cities.

I wouldn't necessarily avoid all of Richmond. There are some areas (perhaps most of Richmond) with a well-deserved reputation for crime and gang activity. However, there are some neighborhoods that are OK, like parts of the Richmond Annex, Point Richmond, and areas up in the hills. I've known people who lived in those areas, and I never got any sense that it was even close to being as unsafe as 23rd and Macdonald. However, even though there are some decent areas (similar to Oakland), there can be quality of life issues when the police spend the bulk of their resources on violent crime and don't have as much time to devote to relatively minor property crime issues. In El Cerrito or Kensington the cops might show up quickly for a routine car burglary call, but in Richmond they could very well tell you to file your own report unless there's an immediate threat. One also needs to understand that not everything there is Richmond. There's a lot of unincorporated area such as East Richmond Heights, and the sheriff's dept response time can be a concern even if the neighborhood itself isn't that bad.

I'm sort of wondering why the OP is thinking of these particular cities, unless it's the affordability of housing. There is a reason why housing costs so little in certain areas. If you're in a neighborhood where nearby gunfire is heard weekly or gangs dominate, that tends to make housing less desirable. I am absolutely serious.

 

[Serial]

Not everyone is working in San Francisco. When my mom lost her long-time job in San Francisco, she actually found a couple of jobs in Marin before she retired. Marin has some fairly well known companies, including Lucasfilm (although they've moved most of their operations to San Francisco), Restoration Hardware, etc. Some of the major employers are government and healthcare, which generally won't be centralized in the biggest cities.
...
I'm sort of wondering why the OP is thinking of these particular cities, unless it's the affordability of housing.

bcla, I'm actually wondering the same thing, which is why I asked where specifically her husband would be working. I don't know that her husband would be working in or where around San Francisco, and only intended to use the city as a point of reference because San Rafael, Novato, Richmond and Vallejo are somewhat randomly scattered and I'm trying to make sense of the OP's choices from a commuting perspective.

 

[ADisneyFamilyof5]

Sorry to cause so much confusion! He would specifically be working in Marin County in Greenbrae. I was looking into the surrounding cities for financial reasons. I am a stay at home mom and we have 3 kids, so safety and quality neighborhoods are our top priority. We currently live in Portland, Or and believe there is a big difference between a diverse neighborhood and an unsafe neighborhood. I guess I have sticker shock of the cost of living increase!

 

[bcla]

Sorry to cause so much confusion! He would specifically be working in Marin County in Greenbrae. I was looking into the surrounding cities for financial reasons. I am a stay at home mom and we have 3 kids, so safety and quality neighborhoods are our top priority. We currently live in Portland, Or and believe there is a big difference between a diverse neighborhood and an unsafe neighborhood. I guess I have sticker shock of the cost of living increase!

Sure - Marin is nice. Almost too nice. I supposed you've been looking at the price of homes and/or rent were in the stratosphere, and noticed what seemed like reasonable prices in those cities you mentioned. Well - I'll just say that you can find relatively low prices in the Bay Area, but that typically means an area with issues of violent crime and/or blight. That's basically the Bay Area housing market in a nutshell. Good weather. Overall a nice way of life. Still some pockets of violent crime in places like Marin City, San Rafael, Richmond, San Pablo, San Leandro, East Palo Alto, Antioch, San Francisco (Mission and Bayview/Hunters Point), etc. You have your areas where it's bad and you see bars on the windows. It was really weird when I visited Oakland to take our kid to an Easter egg hunt at a park. I had to park far away and walk in, and I noticed the bars on windows and overall depressing neighborhood. Then I walked to the site and there were cheery looking homes with relatively expensive cars, and the only difference seemed to be that one neighborhood was on the opposite side of the freeway.

You might consider Petaluma, although there are some bad parts of town. It's a pretty easy commute until you get south of San Rafael. It might even get better once the train (Sonoma-Marin Area Rail Transit aka SMART) goes into operation in a year or so.

 

[ADisneyFamilyof5]

Thanks bcla. It is so hard never having been somewhere to know where to start. I have a good starting point of Petaluma. It helps a lot just knowing some places to avoid.

 

[craigkerstiens]

I'll add Sausalito to the list as a fairly nice and from much of what I've seen cheaper place than Marin. Overall as long as you stick so that you don't have to cross a bridge to get to Marin you're likely to be in pretty safe shape (Richmond he'd have to cross the richmond bridge to get to Marin).

 

[bcla]

I'll add Sausalito to the list as a fairly nice and from much of what I've seen cheaper place than Marin. Overall as long as you stick so that you don't have to cross a bridge to get to Marin you're likely to be in pretty safe shape (Richmond he'd have to cross the richmond bridge to get to Marin).

Sausalito is in Marin. Not sure about cheaper than the rest of Marin, given their median home price is over $1.1 million.

http://www.zillow.com/sausalito-ca/home-values/
http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Sausalito-California/

Apparently average listing price is $1,970,982, but average sales price is $980,000. I suppose this means there are a lot of really expensive homes on the market, but that they tend to stay on the market longer.

 

[bcla]

I started thinking about it, and apparently several listings for homes in Marin City are listed with a Sausalito address. Marin City is kind of interesting since it's not an incorporated city. It's demographic makeup is different than the rest of Marin. It was basically a community where black ship workers were allowed to live when they weren't allowed to live in the rest of Marin during WWII. As it stands now, it is generally a place most people would avoid unless they have a specific reason to be there. It's one of the areas of Marin where one has to be careful of street gangs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_City,_California
Housing

Homes sold in Marin City are often labeled as being located in Sausalito since Marin City shares the 94965 ZIP Code, the 331 and 332 telephone prefixes, and Sausalito Marin City School District with its close neighbor Sausalito. Most of the housing in Marin City was developed in the 1970s, '80s and '90s after much of the temporary Marinship housing put up in 1942 had been razed.​

Here's a report from the Marin County Grand Jury on street gangs in Marin County. Strangely enough, they correspond to the areas that the OP was talking about. The more affordable areas in Marin County are the ones with crime issues. I won't go into the cause or blame for crime, but sometimes one needs to be realistic about the way things are rather than the way we'd like them to be.

http://www.marincounty.org/~/media/files/departments/gj/reports-responses/2007/gangs.pdf?la=en

Marin County has street gangs. Although growing in some areas their numbers in the low hundreds are smaller and their behavior less violent than in nearby counties. Most of their members live in a handful of small communities along US Highway 101: Marin City, part of the canal neighborhood of San Rafael, and a few neighborhood in the southern half of Novato.​

 

[ADisneyFamilyof5]

Overall as long as you stick so that you don't have to cross a bridge to get to Marin you're likely to be in pretty safe shape (Richmond he'd have to cross the richmond bridge to get to Marin).

Thanks for the tip.

I started thinking about it, and apparently several listings for homes in Marin City are listed with a Sausalito address. Marin City is kind of interesting since it's not an incorporated city. It's demographic makeup is different than the rest of Marin. It was basically a community where black ship workers were allowed to live when they weren't allowed to live in the rest of Marin during WWII. As it stands now, it is generally a place most people would avoid unless they have a specific reason to be there. It's one of the areas of Marin where one has to be careful of street gangs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_City,_California
Housing

Homes sold in Marin City are often labeled as being located in Sausalito since Marin City shares the 94965 ZIP Code, the 331 and 332 telephone prefixes, and Sausalito Marin City School District with its close neighbor Sausalito. Most of the housing in Marin City was developed in the 1970s, '80s and '90s after much of the temporary Marinship housing put up in 1942 had been razed.​

Here's a report from the Marin County Grand Jury on street gangs in Marin County. Strangely enough, they correspond to the areas that the OP was talking about. The more affordable areas in Marin County are the ones with crime issues. I won't go into the cause or blame for crime, but sometimes one needs to be realistic about the way things are rather than the way we'd like them to be.

http://www.marincounty.org/~/media/files/departments/gj/reports-responses/2007/gangs.pdf?la=en

Marin County has street gangs. Although growing in some areas their numbers in the low hundreds are smaller and their behavior less violent than in nearby counties. Most of their members live in a handful of small communities along US Highway 101: Marin City, part of the canal neighborhood of San Rafael, and a few neighborhood in the southern half of Novato.​

Thats interesting. Based on your advice, I think we have decided on Petaluma and other places north of it. We want safe, and have decided to up our budget to ensure we get that. DH doesn't mind a commute, as long as its not more than an hour.

 

[bcla]

Thats interesting. Based on your advice, I think we have decided on Petaluma and other places north of it. We want safe, and have decided to up our budget to ensure we get that. DH doesn't mind a commute, as long as its not more than an hour.

You would need to be careful about where in Petaluma. Novato isn't bad depending on the neighborhood. Heck - I live in what's supposed to be one of the safest areas in the Bay Area. Perhaps a four mile drive and I'd be in the middle of gang territory.

I really wouldn't worry about most of San Rafael either. Their problems with crime are relatively minor compared to Richmond or Oakland, and they can easily be avoided by staying out of certain neighborhoods. However, if housing/rental costs are the issue, then those parts of San Rafael aren't going to be to your liking.

Maybe something on Sir Francis Drake Blvd like Lagunitas or Forest Knolls? It can be reasonably affordable if you can accept that kind of location. It's a really beautiful area, although it kind of feels like you're in the middle of a remote forest road even though it's 15 minutes to San Rafael. Not sure about the prices and if your family would be comfortable with a place like that. It's kind of odd. It looks like the middle of nowhere, but (depending on location) you can walk to a small market, a neighborhood restaurant, and even a post office (there are four within a 4 mile mile sparsely populated stretch). You'd then have easy access by car to a lot of retail and then Point Reyes Station to the west.