College: Who Pays - Parent or Kid?

[Colleen27]

I agree that community colleges have a very different student profile than most 4 year colleges or universities. The evidence, however, tends to show that living on campus as a freshman has benefits that a student will not have if they do the first two years at community college. Of course there are students who will do well no matter what but we are talking about planning and saving and paying for college for our kids. I wanted to do what I felt gave my child the best possible chance at success so I saved for her and her sister's college educations at four year universities.

There is correlation, but I haven't seen anything that implies causation. The studies show that kids who have the means and ability to go away to college and live there as a freshman outperform kids who start college under different circumstances (for whatever reason), but I've not seen any that control for academic ability, interest, or other factors that predict a student's success. I doubt you'd see a difference in outcome if you compared motivated students with a solid academic foundation who live on campus vs off or university vs community college.

I agree. My DD is dual enrolled. She really feels for so many people in her classes that are juggling so many different things (single parent, multiple jobs, sick kids, cars that break down). Our community college is really good. That isn't the problem. Life just gets in the way of so many people who attend CC.

Exactly. That was my experience too, and I've been one of those for whom life got in the way. I finished my AA transfer program, but then had my youngest child and put transferring on hold for a while. If I go back (right now I'm undecided for financial reasons) it'll be next year.

 

[Colleen27]

My comments are about those who could save but don't because they have other spending priorities. I do not include retirement savings in that category- the first priority should be retirement saving, then college saving, then saving for everything else, in my opinion and my opinion only.

I think that is an easy view to hold when you have the means to dedicate at least some money to all your priorities. Not so much when your income only covers some of them and fully funding college means no money for travel or recreation for the duration of the kids' upbringing.

 

[awoogala]

We were offered community and/or in state college, living at home. Anything above that, we could pay ourselves/scholarships.
We are planning a similar deal for our kids. Of course, I will push for scholarships first! I do not think they need the whole dorm experience. If they decide they have to go out of state, then they can pay for their own housing/food.

 

[Patience]

I think that is an easy view to hold when you have the means to dedicate at least some money to all your priorities. Not so much when your income only covers some of them and fully funding college means no money for travel or recreation for the duration of the kids' upbringing.

Notice that I said that my comments were directed to those that could save but don't because they have other financial priorities.

The point is that a lot of people live at or, unfortunately, above their financial means. The result is that they "can't" save. My husband and I put money towards savings when we were newlyweds just starting out and still paying our own student loans and we continue to save. The amount we save has changed because our income has grown as our careers have developed but what hasn't changed is that we live below our means. We buy quality used cars and drive them for a really long time, we have a very nice home but it is not the biggest we could afford, we take one nice vacation each year instead of two or three or more, we had two children instead of three because we wanted to send all of our children to college and give them extra-curricular activities and vacations, we shop sales and look for bargains, etc., etc., etc. I tell my oldest daughter all the time that the key to having money is to live under your means. For some people, of course, that is not possible because their financial means are small but I do believe for most middle to upper class families, it is possible. Too many people with nice incomes spend every dime they make every single month.

 

[Fyrefly]

My family's paying for my undergrad was the greatest gift they could have ever given me. I understand a great many people can't afford it but I do encourage anyone who can to do it. In my opinion the ones who want their kids to work for it for the sake of working for it do them a great disservice. By all means have caveats like keeping up grades or withdrawing of support, but the job market has changed. Work-study is hard to find unless you are in financial need by their standards which as we all know is rather hard to get. Student loans are crippling - particularly with the way the current job market is. You think its hard getting a job with your life's work experience? Try getting one with nothing at all AND thousands of dollars in loans on your back with no way to pay them.

I wouldn't be able to be in graduate school if I had student loans to pay because they would be falling due now. I can live independently in a very frugal manner off of the money I make as a TA and I am no longer dependent on my parents financially, but if I had a loan to repay my salary would not cut it.

And dorm life isn't just partying. I studied engineering and I was meeting with study groups until 3-4 in the morning many nights to get homework done, pulling all-nighters on projects with class in the morning. Having my bed be a walking distance away on days and nights like that was huge. It wouldn't have been safe for me to drive home so my options would have been pick between my commute and my grades. That's not even addressing the helpfulness of having it as a baby step between living at home and living independently now, paying all my own bills and doing all my own cooking/housekeeping.

Just my two cents anyway. Obviously as I said not anyone can afford it but anybody who can manage to help even a little ought to, in my opinion.

 

[luvthemouse71]

"However, you really sound like you want to justify that what you can afford is best"..


That's true, what any parent can afford is best. Why on earth would anyone put themselves into a hole so their kid can go to a fancy school? Anyone who does that makes no sense to me.

There are plenty of schools that give a great education and you don't have to break the bank to go there. I will not be financing a social experience- if my kid wants to live on campus, that comes out of her pocket. She will also be expected to have some sort of a job. If living at home, I expect a contribution of some sort, whether that's grocery money or partial rent.

 

[luvthemouse71]

We were offered community and/or in state college, living at home. Anything above that, we could pay ourselves/scholarships.
We are planning a similar deal for our kids. Of course, I will push for scholarships first! I do not think they need the whole dorm experience. If they decide they have to go out of state, then they can pay for their own housing/food.

]

And your kids should be grateful that they get what they get. You are still providing them with an education.

 

[Colleen27]

Notice that I said that my comments were directed to those that could save but don't because they have other financial priorities.

The point is that a lot of people live at or, unfortunately, above their financial means. The result is that they "can't" save. My husband and I put money towards savings when we were newlyweds just starting out and still paying our own student loans and we continue to save. The amount we save has changed because our income has grown as our careers have developed but what hasn't changed is that we live below our means. We buy quality used cars and drive them for a really long time, we have a very nice home but it is not the biggest we could afford, we take one nice vacation each year instead of two or three or more, we had two children instead of three because we wanted to send all of our children to college and give them extra-curricular activities and vacations, we shop sales and look for bargains, etc., etc., etc. I tell my oldest daughter all the time that the key to having money is to live under your means. For some people, of course, that is not possible because their financial means are small but I do believe for most middle to upper class families, it is possible. Too many people with nice incomes spend every dime they make every single month.

That's what I'm saying though... that for many families, there isn't enough money to save for the big priorities like retirement and college while still having something left for the smaller priorities like traveling or extracurriculars. I know this is the budget board where living primarily for tomorrow is applauded, but I don't understand sitting in judgment of someone who chooses a balance between traveling and saving for college even though it means covering a 2+2 plan instead of 4 years at university, or who has two children when they could only afford the 'ideal' university experience for one, or who stays home when the children are small even though it means getting a later start on saving, or who otherwise prioritizes other aspects of life over college savings.

We could save enough to cover 4 years of the full college experience for all three of our children at all but the most expensive schools, but that would come at the cost of not traveling, not sending the kids to private school, not allowing travel/club level extracurriculars, and living a much diminished day-to-day lifestyle. And we're simply not willing to do that. We live simply, drive our older cars, fix up our old house, carry cell phones that only make phone calls, and make do in many ways but there are some things that are worth having a little less in the bank to give the kids a greater range of experiences as they grow.

 

[jodifla]

]

And your kids should be grateful that they get what they get. You are still providing them with an education.

Geez, what a bad attitude.

My parents and I approached it as a partnership. I worked and saved before heading off to college, I got grants and loans, and worked during college, and my parents also helped.

I was lucky in that my parents really wanted me to have the WHOLE college experience, and for me that included a sorority and lots of campus involvement. It wasn't just the "partying" -- it was the ability to pull the wee-hours studying sessions, learning about budgeting time and money, getting a sampling of truly taking care of myself -- with a big safety net.

I also graduated from the largest college in my state, with the best program in my field, and I got a job right away even in the midst of a recession because of that huge network and the reputation of the program.

This ultimately paid off for my parents, because when they became ill, I was able to step up and support them.

 

[debbiemomto4]

My mother did not pay for mine. I went to school on a scholarship and lived at home. My dh had loans which we finally paid off. His parents were unable to help. I have 4 children and through circumstances no college savings for them. But thankfully oldest is a senior at Umd with a full academic ride intuit includes board and books. Second son goes to cc and lives at home. We pay for that. Third child received a full ride from Hunter as a community scholar. Meaning her community service and Gold award paid off we pay for room which is cheap. Last is in 8th grade...so a few years he will apply to scholarships and he has pool to pick from since he is a cancer survivor.
My kids worked hard in school , joined activities and my girls both received their Gold award. So it does help. We help as much as we can but they know it's basically up to them.

 

[anelson81993]

So I thought I'd chime in with my experience, though mine is a bit unusual. I'm a college junior, my older brother is a college freshman (he took time off to work before starting college), and my sister is a high school sophomore. When my siblings and I were very young, we were all diagnosed with severe heart defects. My parents had to cover seven open heart surgeries (between my brother and me), as well as various treatments for all three of us, and all the doctor and hospital visits (they did have good insurance that definitely helped out). Since our conditions were so severe when we were young, my parents made the decision to focus on treating our conditions and enjoying the time they had with us. By the time college came around, they hadn't saved for our schooling at all. My parents *probably* could have paid for at least some of my schooling, but definitely not my brother's or my sister's. So I cover the costs of my schooling. I live in the dorms (I do pay a little extra to live on my own, but that was my choice, and the cost is not so significant that it outweighs the benefits, especially considering my health problems); I have a meal plan, and I take a full load of classes each semester. I got some grant/scholarship/federal loan money, and I'm going into Teach for America (or a similar program) after graduation to cover the payments on my federal loans. I've also had to take out some private loans, about $12,000 so far, and I have three semesters left before graduation. I work at two jobs (tutoring on campus and working at the grocery store), but I don't feel like I'm missing out on any kind of "college experience." I will have debt when I get out of school, but I knew that would be necessary going into school. In fact, I work at two jobs to build up savings for payments on my loans.
Meanwhile, my older brother spent a semester at community college, a semester at a $15k/semester private university, and then transferred to our state university. He did not accumulate enough credits at the other schools to enter school as anything other than a freshman, and he'll have at least 3 more years, and probably 4. He does not work during the school year (right now he's in an internship and doesn't really have time to work), and has no real savings accumulated. So far, he's taken out ~$25,000 between government and private loans, with no clear end in sight, as he has not settled on a major yet. Furthermore, the major he's currently considering is not a major with any kind of job growth, nor is it a major with a set "profession" he can go into (he's currently considering political science). He has no idea what he's going to do with a political science degree, except pursue more education, nor does he know how he'll pay his loans off.
Do I think my parents should pay for my education, or my brother's? Absolutely not. While a college education is necessary in my field (teaching), my brother doesn't even have a field yet, after a full year of school. My parents would go broke trying to pay off his school. I think my education should be my responsiblity, and only mine. My parents did not cosign my loan; I have to work to maintain a spotless credit report so I can get good rates. I work all year to pay for my car, my gas, my insurance, and anything else I need/want. My parents do help me out where they can, and they put up with me at home on weekends for my second job (I commute the ~45 minutes for my grocery store job every weekend), but ultimately, I am old enough that this needs to be my responsibility.

 

[allison443]

I think it's great that students can still manage to put themselves through college. It takes a lot of maturity.


However, I notice that most of those that are putting themselves through school are receiving financial aid (need-based aid like grants, not just merit scholarships). Students who don't qualify for need-based aid (due to parents' income) are in a more difficult position if their parents do not contribute towards the costs. They could get loans, but they might only qualify for the unsubsidized Stafford loan, which everyone can get but is something like $5500 for freshman year (and I believe further loans would require a co-signer, usually a parent).

I think there are so many factors involved and there isn't really a blanket rule for all families.

 

[Patience]

That's what I'm saying though... that for many families, there isn't enough money to save for the big priorities like retirement and college while still having something left for the smaller priorities like traveling or extracurriculars. I know this is the budget board where living primarily for tomorrow is applauded, but I don't understand sitting in judgment of someone who chooses a balance between traveling and saving for college even though it means covering a 2+2 plan instead of 4 years at university, or who has two children when they could only afford the 'ideal' university experience for one, or who stays home when the children are small even though it means getting a later start on saving, or who otherwise prioritizes other aspects of life over college savings.

We could save enough to cover 4 years of the full college experience for all three of our children at all but the most expensive schools, but that would come at the cost of not traveling, not sending the kids to private school, not allowing travel/club level extracurriculars, and living a much diminished day-to-day lifestyle. And we're simply not willing to do that. We live simply, drive our older cars, fix up our old house, carry cell phones that only make phone calls, and make do in many ways but there are some things that are worth having a little less in the bank to give the kids a greater range of experiences as they grow.

I agree that there should be a balance between saving for the future and enjoying the present but I still think too many people prioritize the present with the attitude that the future (retirement, kids college, etc.) will somehow take care of itself. It might but unless you plan for the future, I doubt it will be optimal, and that applies to retirement as well as to how your children's college educations will be funded. I am not sitting in judgment but I do have an opinion. We have been discussing the various aspects of the question of who should pay for college. My husband and I believe that we should and we have acted accordingly. We are in fact doing it right now as we have a daughter who is a college freshmen. She goes to the public, in state university of her choice and lives in a dorm because that is what we have saved for. Others on this thread feel they should pay for the university or college of their child's choice, no matter how expensive, but we did not set that as a financial priority so our child goes to a state university 2.5 hours away from home and we're comfortable with that. We will provide the same for our younger daughter. A whole heck of a lot of people disagree with me in both directions and it's certainly their right.

 

[crisi]

"However, you really sound like you want to justify that what you can afford is best"..


That's true, what any parent can afford is best. Why on earth would anyone put themselves into a hole so their kid can go to a fancy school? Anyone who does that makes no sense to me.

There are plenty of schools that give a great education and you don't have to break the bank to go there. I will not be financing a social experience- if my kid wants to live on campus, that comes out of her pocket. She will also be expected to have some sort of a job. If living at home, I expect a contribution of some sort, whether that's grocery money or partial rent.

I fund my kids' social experiences right now, as well as their living expenses, because they are dependent on me. While they are in college, they will continue to be dependent on me and I will continue to fund them - since they won't have money to pay for dorms or rec fees other than the little they make at summer or part time jobs - which isn't enough to do much for most of the parents I've talked to with kids in school.

That doesn't mean they get carte blance - I'm not funding Spring Break trips to Mexico. But paying for their living expenses and a small allowance - absolutely. I think that they will benefit from the experience - even if they might drink a little. My daughter, in particular, will benefit from the experience (my son, maybe, maybe not - he might turn out to be a live at home kid, or join the military, or go to tech school.)

Now, the big difference here is we are well able to afford to do this for our kids. I will do this for my kids, we can afford it, and the sacrifices to do so haven't been extreme - we aren't sacrificing our retirement - we are sacrificing cherry cupboards and granite countertops and only go to Disney every other year for a week, and my husband's Audi is eight years old. That doesn't mean that I think you NEED to. In fact, even if you can well afford it, I don't think you NEED to.

Are there great low cost schools - absolutely. Are there great educations to be had living at home - absolutely. But I'm working to set up my kids so that they can have the best possible choice for them without loans - my oldest is six years out from college, I don't know what that best choice will be yet - if that means a 2000 student private school at $50k a year, or if that is living at home and going to community college - by saving for it, when we get there, we get choice. And note the WE. THEY don't get to choose - I don't get to choose - WE get to choose.

 

[punkin]

I fund my kids' social experiences right now, as well as their living expenses, because they are dependent on me. While they are in college, they will continue to be dependent on me and I will continue to fund them - since they won't have money to pay for dorms or rec fees other than the little they make at summer or part time jobs - which isn't enough to do much for most of the parents I've talked to with kids in school.

That doesn't mean they get carte blance - I'm not funding Spring Break trips to Mexico. But paying for their living expenses and a small allowance - absolutely. I think that they will benefit from the experience - even if they might drink a little. My daughter, in particular, will benefit from the experience (my son, maybe, maybe not - he might turn out to be a live at home kid, or join the military, or go to tech school.)

Now, the big difference here is we are well able to afford to do this for our kids. I will do this for my kids, we can afford it, and the sacrifices to do so haven't been extreme - we aren't sacrificing our retirement - we are sacrificing cherry cupboards and granite countertops and only go to Disney every other year for a week, and my husband's Audi is eight years old. That doesn't mean that I think you NEED to. In fact, even if you can well afford it, I don't think you NEED to.

Are there great low cost schools - absolutely. Are there great educations to be had living at home - absolutely. But I'm working to set up my kids so that they can have the best possible choice for them without loans - my oldest is six years out from college, I don't know what that best choice will be yet - if that means a 2000 student private school at $50k a year, or if that is living at home and going to community college - by saving for it, when we get there, we get choice. And note the WE. THEY don't get to choose - I don't get to choose - WE get to choose.

This is exactly the way I feel.

 

[FINFAN]

I just want to add that when researching schools, don't rule out what CC have started to offer(at least at ours) there are 4 or 5 majors that are in a "3+1" category. Basically, various state/private in-state schools have agreed to offer their 4 year BA/BS degree at a greatly reduced rate if the student attends the CC for all 4 years (or 3 at the CC and 1 at final school)...paying CC costs for the first 3 and about $15,000 for year 4. Examples are business, criminal justice,nursing,marketing, culinary arts, hotel management. Basically, that student can obtain the same degree for around $35,000 by taking this route, vs the average $110-120 by attending said college from Freshman year. This is the route our DS is taking thus far, he plans to transfer Junior year tho, IF it is an intelligent financial move. However, he is having a tough time justifying spending the extra $$$ to do so. After commuter costs I would say the fair difference in his case will be $60,000 over 4 years. My DS did not aquire any scholarships of large sums, so in a way, this is another avenue for those who do not have aid, scholarships ,savings or flat out just do not care to pay more than necessary for whatever reason.(perhaps letting mom and dad hang on to some of those hard earned savings for a rainy day) While in early stages and a limited number of degrees in the program right now, the response in enrollment has been huge so as of now, a great alternative and ties the students in with the university from the start, not to mention, the degree will be from the university( which does have specific requirements throughout the programs) It also alleviates some of those "grey area" classes that may not transfer if not in the articuation agreements. Anyway, hopefully other CC are offering these types of programs because it is a good thing!

 

[eliza61]

I fund my kids' social experiences right now, as well as their living expenses, because they are dependent on me. While they are in college, they will continue to be dependent on me and I will continue to fund them - since they won't have money to pay for dorms or rec fees other than the little they make at summer or part time jobs - which isn't enough to do much for most of the parents I've talked to with kids in school.

That doesn't mean they get carte blance - I'm not funding Spring Break trips to Mexico. But paying for their living expenses and a small allowance - absolutely. I think that they will benefit from the experience - even if they might drink a little. My daughter, in particular, will benefit from the experience (my son, maybe, maybe not - he might turn out to be a live at home kid, or join the military, or go to tech school.)

Now, the big difference here is we are well able to afford to do this for our kids. I will do this for my kids, we can afford it, and the sacrifices to do so haven't been extreme - we aren't sacrificing our retirement - we are sacrificing cherry cupboards and granite countertops and only go to Disney every other year for a week, and my husband's Audi is eight years old. That doesn't mean that I think you NEED to. In fact, even if you can well afford it, I don't think you NEED to.

Are there great low cost schools - absolutely. Are there great educations to be had living at home - absolutely. But I'm working to set up my kids so that they can have the best possible choice for them without loans - my oldest is six years out from college, I don't know what that best choice will be yet - if that means a 2000 student private school at $50k a year, or if that is living at home and going to community college - by saving for it, when we get there, we get choice. And note the WE. THEY don't get to choose - I don't get to choose - WE get to choose.

Bravo! well said

 

[crisi]

This is exactly the way I feel.

And if they don't spend it because community college and living at home looks to be the better choice, or they go into the military...it's money, it can be reallocated. Maybe it gets reallocated to my retirement so I can do more traveling, maybe it helps them open up their own auto repair shop, maybe it gets donated to the alley cats of Paris.

 

[JennCa]

Our plan is to pay for any education our child NEEDS so they can have a career that suits them. I am NOT paying anything for time to find themselves or explore different options. If they have a goal/plan in mind them then I am willing to spend the money. I am open to any training, not just traditional college.

Of course I am thinking affordable state schools not private and not super extravagent and they need to be employable after graduating.

My parents paid for my undergraduate and teaching credential and I paid for my masters (since it isn't essential they felt they were done paying). My brother on the other hand had his undergraduate and medical school paid since it was what he needed for his career. They didn't want him to NOT do what he wanted just due to worry about debt. Of course there were strings associated with this. Both of us were so thankful to start our adults lives debt free. We finished in the timeliest of manners and it was understood education was for a job, not just for fun.

My hubby unfortunately had to pay for his, although he did get some help with grants, scholarships, etc and he was always annoyed starting off with debt even though we considered it good debt and we paid it off quickly.

We put aside money every year so that way our kiddos should be able to start debt free. Granted, that is our intention, but if something goes wrong, it may not happen that way!

Jenn

 

[akayek31]

I got my Bachelors degree in 2007. I had pell grants and loans. My son just started college at a two year school and will transfer to get his Bachelors to a four year school. He is getting Pell grant and went and signed himself up for student loans even though pell would have paid for everything . Now my daughter on the other hand wants to be a doctor. She is in 10th grade. She wants to go to University of Florida. We live in Georgia. Out of state tuition is $30000 a year. I do not plan on paying that much for school. Before her senior year I plan on moving us to Florida so I can get in state tuition. She will probably get scholarships, grants and whatever else is needed for her career. I know after med school she will have a ton of loans to pay but she wants to be an OB/GYN and she said they make almost $300000 a year so I am sure she can handle that.