Covid And The Rest of Us

[CdnCarrie]

Why is it up to NZ to save Fiji?

 

[maddiel]

Why is it up to NZ to save Fiji?

If you go for a walk and see your neighbour's kid drowning in the lake, do you keep walking or try to help?

M.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Why is it up to NZ to save Fiji?

I don't think that was the PP's point. But worldwide we are largely a humanitarian globe. Throughout all of this we've seen the difficult decisions countries have made between helping out others and protecting their own, sometimes making allowances (such as cruise ships allow to port or tourism under strict guidelines allowed). In a grander sense we'll likely be seeing more concentration throughout the next year on countries that rely on tourism.

Consider the Bahamas who have to protect their own but also need tourism. They've gone back and forth on allowing it with the U.S. being banned, then unbanned, then banned, then unbanned, etc

Countries also have symbiotic relationships with other countries be it tourism or workforce or other means.

So I don't think the PP is saying NZ is solely responsible for Fiji in particular but that there are considerations on a moral, ethical, and humanitarian level most countries on a general level have with various countries around the globe. That doesn't mean NZ has to let Fiji in but it does mean it can be part of their decision-making. I know people have made comments about the Canadian-US border throughout various threads. That border could realistically stay closed for tourism a heck of a lot longer than many other poor countries especially island nations who have to weigh with more gravity their country's economic health with it's public health of its system and citizens who may be more vulnerable.

 

[CdnCarrie]

And to clarify I was playing devil's advocate. Of course we all need to help each other out. I just don't think all the blame should go to NZ for that.

Fiji could do something similar to Bahamas - https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...oreign-travellers-but-not-canadians-1.5031347

But last I heard the numbers of cases had started to rise since they let tourists in even from just select countries.

 

[CdnCarrie]

If you go for a walk and see your neighbour's kid drowning in the lake, do you keep walking or try to help?

M.

No. You're right. But why is only one neighbour responsible? And why not the town? My point is let's not victimize NZ. They are doing the best they can for their people just like any other nation. I don't know the rationale that went into their decision to leave off Fiji from the bubble so I'm not going to make them the villains.
Have they sent any foreign aid to Fiji? Does anyone know?

 

[sam_gordon]

No. You're right. But why is only one neighbour responsible? And why not the town? My point is let's not victimize NZ. They are doing the best they can for their people just like any other nation. I don't know the rationale that went into their decision to leave off Fiji from the bubble so I'm not going to make them the villains.
Have they sent any foreign aid to Fiji? Does anyone know?

Who said only one neighbor was responsible? PP mentioned Australia and the US in the post you quoted. I did not take his post as a "laying blame" at ANY country, but just an example of what is happening.

 

[Jrb1979]

I know it's happening world wide and you can't really blame countries for doing what they are doing. The issue is no one seems to have an answer on how to open the borders safely. I think the thing that worries a lot of countries is they worked hard to get their cases very low and don't want them to spike again. I don't have the answer and it seems many here don't either.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I know it's happening world wide and you can't really blame countries for doing what they are doing. The issue is no one seems to have an answer on how to open the borders safely. I think the thing that worries a lot of countries is they worked hard to get their cases very low and don't want them to spike again. I don't have the answer and it seems many here don't either.

We're really early on TBH in this pandemic. When the strain hits too much for some of these countries out there you may very well see their metric/allowance for cases eased up. Bahamas already went through a back and forth quickly. No one is really blaming countries. It is worth thinking about moral, ethical and humanitarian responsibilities that various countries have. Foreign aide won't do much to get that airline pilot back to work or that resort worker back if the borders to countries where most tourism comes from stays closed. It may help if the country has a program for food distribution.

"Safely" is an overused term these days. Safely would really be that every country is self-sufficient never relies on anyone else, etc and can just stay closed up to everyone else and no one does anything until a vaccine makes it way throughout the population that enough people are considered immune not only that but it needs to be on a global level.

In reality measures are put in place and you go from there. You do it (largely that is) the best that you can be. When a country decides to do that obviously will vary. All countries have to expect cases when tourism is allowed, when lock down measures enacted are eased or completely removed. The reactions to such cases or resurgences (depending on the level of cases) various.

In the world with a virus that has no known vaccine it's a give and take. And even after a vaccine is found it's not instantaneous. Some countries are able to withstand this and that longer and are using that time. Other countries don't have as much time and thus may need to make a decision sooner or may need other countries they rely on to adjust their metric/allowance for cases.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

We're really early on TBH in this pandemic. When the strain hits too much for some of these countries out there you may very well see their metric/allowance for cases eased up. Bahamas already went through a back and forth quickly. No one is really blaming countries. It is worth thinking about moral, ethical and humanitarian responsibilities that various countries have. Foreign aide won't do much to get that airline pilot back to work or that resort worker back if the borders to countries where most tourism comes from stays closed. It may help if the country has a program for food distribution.

"Safely" is an overused term these days. Safely would really be that every country is self-sufficient never relies on anyone else, etc and can just stay closed up to everyone else and no one does anything until a vaccine makes it way throughout the population that enough people are considered immune not only that but it needs to be on a global level.

In reality measures are put in place and you go from there. You do it (largely that is) the best that you can be. When a country decides to do that obviously will vary. All countries have to expect cases when tourism is allowed, when lock down measures enacted are eased or completely removed. The reactions to such cases or resurgences (depending on the level of cases) various.

In the world with a virus that has no known vaccine it's a give and take. And even after a vaccine is found it's not instantaneous. Some countries are able to withstand this and that longer and are using that time. Other countries don't have as much time and thus may need to make a decision sooner or may need other countries they rely on to adjust their metric/allowance for cases.

Plus a lot of people have said they won't take a vaccine; at least not early on.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Plus a lot of people have said they won't take a vaccine; at least not early on.

I just heard that Russia approved a vaccine before it could have completed trials and tests...

It's one thing to inject money to make a process faster, trials to be completed faster and the population just wary about potential side effects and the like. To me it's another thing to skip over that part of trials and tests. For that reason I didn't include Russia when I said "no known vaccine".

 

[Karin1984]

They have published for NL where people got infected for the last 3 months
44% Direct family
20% Nursing home
16% At work
15% Other family members.

The nursing home infections are the remainder of the peak, there are hardly new cases coming from nursing homes

 

[maddiel]

Plus a lot of people have said they won't take a vaccine; at least not early on.

Because this is a thread discussing the situation in other countries besides the USA, I think it's worth point out the the number of people who have said that they wouldn't take a vaccine varies from country to country.

M.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Because this is a thread discussing the situation in other countries besides the USA, I think it's worth point out the the number of people who have said that they wouldn't take a vaccine varies from country to country.

M.

In respects to threads that have asked that question people from other countries have chimed in as well. But you're right it varies from country to country but concerns over side effects (a large reason people have said they would wait) is nearly a universal reason.

 

[maddiel]

In respects to threads that have asked that question people from other countries have chimed in as well. But you're right it varies from country to country but concerns over side effects (a large reason people have said they would wait) is nearly a universal reason.

Prevalence of anti-vax activists has a lot of effect, but I ain't going down that rabbit hole.....

I think it's universal that more people tend to say they may not or won't get a vaccine when the question is merely academic. What the numbers are when the vaccines are actually available AND proof of vaccine is required for something that people want to do (travel, go to work, get their hair done, go to school, etc) may be quite different.

M.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Because this is a thread discussing the situation in other countries besides the USA, I think it's worth point out the the number of people who have said that they wouldn't take a vaccine varies from country to country.

M.

Do you have any further information on that? How does it vary from country to country? (And going to look myself, too, as now I’m curious.)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Prevalence of anti-vax activists has a lot of effect, but I ain't going down that rabbit hole.....

I think it's universal that more people tend to say they may not or won't get a vaccine when the question is merely academic. What the numbers are when the vaccines are actually available AND proof of vaccine is required for something that people want to do (travel, go to work, get their hair done, go to school, etc) may be quite different.

M.

I wasn't actually speaking about anti-vaxxers. Anti-vaxxers aren't on the same level of your average everyday people who are concerned about side effects of a brand new thing which is a concern that for many is just fairly basic; some just willing to take the vaccine more than others.

There was a thread hmm last year or the year before about Gardasil (HPV vaccine). There may have been one or two posters who stood out as more anti-vaxxers but others just were largely concerned about side effects, some knowing people who had taken it and had reactions, most mild (as expected), but others enough it warned them away. I myself got Gardasil essentially right when it was released for usage (I had it when it was 3 shots now I think it's only 2).

Compulsory requirement of a vaccine is a different topic than what was being discussed which was the voluntary action of vaccine as in "it's available go for it". I think the PP (and I'm not trying to speak for them) was speaking about the voluntary part. One thing that may be more unique to the U.S. as opposed to globally is if the virus makes the list of exemptions that have become more prevalent over the years here for schooling. It's too early for me to make any sort of comment about the likelihood of that but in the last several years states have pushed to remove all or some of the exemptions that had been allowed as diseases like the measles came back fiercely.

I'm not a citizen of Russia but I wouldn't want a vaccine that hasn't been tested and I'm one who would be more willing to get one should it be available. The citizens of Russia may be under a more compulsory path and if so I just hope it turns out to actually be effective.

 

[pahoben]

I was contacted by three families that I know very well in Nigeria that the husbands lost their jobs at the start of the lockdown there. They were hungry and so I got some money to them. I now have to determine how to help them long term so they are able to provide for themselves. As best I can tell there haven’t been a large number of Covid deaths in Nigeria but the government imposed lockdown is a terrible burden on a population that is very poor and have very low savings to provide for a family during a long economy destroying lockdown. When fathers see children going hungry they are forced to take actions that would never be considered in normal circumstances.
I have been through local Ebola outbreaks and have never seen measures adopted that ensure a sizable portion of the population must deal with Insufficient food for their children. My viewpoint is that the world has become unhinged for some reason with a response that is much worse then the virus presents.

 

[maddiel]

Do you have any further information on that? How does it vary from country to country? (And going to look myself, too, as now I’m curious.)

In a recent poll, Canada was about 75% would get the vaccine, 11% unsure and 15% probably or definitely not.

For the UK, 53% would definitely get it, 20% would be fairly likely to get it and 16% wouldn't get it

I found an Australian article on a poll that said 56% would immediately get vaccinated, 35% would be vaccinated but not immediately and 10 % wouldn't get vaccinated.

I googled for Germany/EU and found this article: "In April, 74% of survey participants in Germany, the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands, Italy, France and Portugal said they would be willing to get vaccinated. By June, that number had dropped to 68%, researchers found"

To compares the the USA, to a recent poll there said that 65% would get it ad 35% wouldn't.

I'm not a citizen of Russia but I wouldn't want a vaccine that hasn't been tested and I'm one who would be more willing to get one should it be available. The citizens of Russia may be under a more compulsory path and if so I just hope it turns out to actually be effective.

I wouldn't get a Russian certified vaccine, but as soon as Health Canada approves one, I would get it. (Well, once people in higher risk groups than me have the chance, I would get it)

M.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Thank you for doing that digging. I would expect the numbers to change up and down over time in the future just like they have been in the past. Also of note is how many people were surveyed. Margins of error also seem to vary. In truth just these few articles can lead to a wealth of comparison.

In a recent poll, Canada was about 75% would get the vaccine, 11% unsure and 15% probably or definitely not.

Results are based on an online study conducted from June 26 to June 28, 2020 (corrected it from 2019 as I believe that to be a typo), among 1,000 adults in Canada. Wonder if they have more people and from more recently.

For the UK, 53% would definitely get it, 20% would be fairly likely to get it and 16% wouldn't get it

2,237 interviews with UK residents aged 16-75 and which was carried out online in mid-July

I found an Australian article on a poll that said 56% would immediately get vaccinated, 35% would be vaccinated but not immediately and 10 % wouldn't get vaccinated.

1,010 people were surveyed though I can't find when the survey was completed.

I googled for Germany/EU and found this article: "In April, 74% of survey participants in Germany, the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands, Italy, France and Portugal said they would be willing to get vaccinated. By June, that number had dropped to 68%, researchers found"

For all those countries collectively it was 7,000 people polled. Wonder if there is a survey from July or August available?

To compares the the USA, to a recent poll there said that 65% would get it ad 35% wouldn't.

7,632 adults, aged 18 and older conducted from July 20-Aug. 2, 2020. They went fairly in-depth into geographical, ethnicity, race, socio-economic, political, place of residence (urban/rural), age group, etc. Some of the other polls had some of that information too.

I wouldn't get a Russian certified vaccine, but as soon as Health Canada approves one, I would get it. (Well, once people in higher risk groups than me have the chance, I would get it)

M.

I'm more likely to be willing at this point. The FDA has stated they will not cut corners and I trust that. However, different countries may have different tolerances for the results of the pharmaceutical companies they are purchasing the vaccine from.

 

[godisney14]

Plus a lot of people have said they won't take a vaccine; at least not early on.

In a recent poll, Canada was about 75% would get the vaccine, 11% unsure and 15% probably or definitely not.

For the UK, 53% would definitely get it, 20% would be fairly likely to get it and 16% wouldn't get it

I found an Australian article on a poll that said 56% would immediately get vaccinated, 35% would be vaccinated but not immediately and 10 % wouldn't get vaccinated.

I googled for Germany/EU and found this article: "In April, 74% of survey participants in Germany, the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands, Italy, France and Portugal said they would be willing to get vaccinated. By June, that number had dropped to 68%, researchers found"

To compares the the USA, to a recent poll there said that 65% would get it ad 35% wouldn't.

I wouldn't get a Russian certified vaccine, but as soon as Health Canada approves one, I would get it. (Well, once people in higher risk groups than me have the chance, I would get it)

M.

My family, relatives, and many friends are in either research or medical field. And, I, wouldn't even be the first to get a vaccine that went from R&D to commercial approval within one year, even if it was the US FDA approving it.