Covid And The Rest of Us

[ronandannette]

For a three-hour tour?

I thought about throwing that in there, or making a lame joke about Jungle Cruise but I chickened out.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

TBH, having a patchwork of special circumstances sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare to manage for no real benefit. But maybe that's just my emotional response?

No that's a practical response. An emotional one would be applying that only to Americans (as that's the topic) because of a pre-conceived perception regardless of what the exact situations were being discussed.

‐‐----------------

There are often advisories that citizens of one country don't travel to another country. They do not carry the same weight as prohibitions.

If I were a CBSA officer, I would tell the Canadian boat operators to knock off crossing the boarder into the US unless they wanted to run the risk of having all their passengers have to quarantine if they were found to be on the wrong side of the border.

Yuppers in that respect I was bringing in one's own moral code. Just because it's labeled an advisory as opposed to a prohibition doesn't alter it hence my more rehortical question you bolded in my comment.

The Irish head of tourism just resigned because he took a trip to Italy, while that travel is allowed between those two countries it went against the travel advisory to avoid non-essential travel (as well as became a bad PR move when his sector was promoting supporting local economy).

IMO however this activity doesn't seem to present a high risk for COVID spread the main reason given per the article. Now this is a discussion so while I'm aware of the overview into border matters I'm discussing why I don't agree with it in this particular case as was brought up by the other poster. Neither me nor the other poster are trying to rewrite border laws here just a-talking. Likewise I know you're not trying to change anything just chit chatting about it in any case it's probably been a longer discussion than warrants in this thread so I'll kindly stop there on this subject. Please don't take offense if I don't respond if you happen to quote me back. I do appreciate the dialog but don't wish to monopolize the thread any more than has already been done on just this one topic any more

 

[Karin1984]

If this is the case, I really can't see how you pose a risk to anyone but yourself (providing you don't actively have Covid when you travel of course). Is it people there in Holland that would disapprove of the trip or here on the (North American-slanted) DIS or other similar social media?

What is the general attitude where you are towards the current restrictions (whatever they may be specifically) and to travel?

P.S. We went to DLP for a single day upon arrival in Europe from Canada in 2017. I wish I could say it was amazing but we were so tired and physically numb from the 9 hour flight I honestly don't remember much of the experience at all.

The Netherlands has always had a tolerant culture. In daily life most people think: 'you can do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't bother me'. Only that's of course the issue with Covid is when you are asymptomatic, you do not know if you are bothering someone. So people are judging a bit more, they don't always tell you. It's more that I had a big argument with a friend about doing something unnecessary as going to IKEA, which ended in a two-week not speak to each other before we made up. It was at the beginning and everyone was on edge.

We don't have many measures, no general mask mandate etc., just limited capacity in indoor spaces and keep your distance (short summary). I think the biggest industry that hasn't restarted yet is live theater, everything else is more or less back to 'normal'. People are worried about schools going back to normal, school starts today in some regions.
The majority is following the rules. We do have some protests, but they are very small.

Last night I was at an open air theater production at a camping site, and before the show we were strolling over the camping site and we decided to get some ice cream, next to the swimming pool. We walk into the restaurant building, disinfect our hands and order our ice cream. At that moment, a group of unattended kids (8 - 10 years old) run in, two stop and disinfect their hands, and yell at the others that they should do the same. People try to raise their kids properly ;-)

And yes, advice for everyone travelling anywhere: Do not attempt to do much after arrival!
Especially if it's something you look forward to, like visiting a Disney park, don't do it till you are well-rested.

 

[elphaba91]

Here in Victoria we are finally starting to see some improvements in terms of case numbers and our curve seems to be dropping. Still quite a way to go, although it’s less than 2 weeks since stage 4 (including closure of most businesses) fully kicked in, so this is really the impact of stage 3 and compulsory masks.’

 

[BadPinkTink]

Not so good in Ireland The numbers are going back up, but death numbers are very low. The majority of people testing positive for Covid 19 are now under 45 years old. Theres been clusters in meat processing factories but they are just some of the problems.

The main problem is the 2 tier approach to opening bars. Bars which serve food can open with restrictions, a minimum spend of €9 and a time limit of 90 minutes as well as the Covid 19 social distancing and limits on numbers etc etc.

Bars are getting creative with the providing of food, hiring a food truck but not caring if people don't actually buy the food.
Bars are putting food orders on the bill but telling people don't worry you wont be charged for food you don't want, as The Police just want to see the receipt for food.
Huge rise in house parties

Small rural bars who can't serve food have been closed since March and have no idea when they will reopen. This is causing huge unemployment.

A video has gone viral over the weekend of a bar in Dublin, filled with people in their 20's partying like it was 2109.

The Police are doing checks on bars which are open to make sure they comply with the rules but for every bar they check which is complying, there are 5 more they can't check which are not complying. Its like a cat and mouse game.

There is a meeting today of our National Health Emergency Team as they are not happy with the rising Covid 19 numbers. Its possible there may be more local lockdowns or even a second National lockdown, as the way things are right now is not working to keep the numbers down.

 

[darby888]

Not so good in Ireland The numbers are going back up, but death numbers are very low. The majority of people testing positive for Covid 19 are now under 45 years old. Theres been clusters in meat processing factories but they are just some of the problems.

The main problem is the 2 tier approach to opening bars. Bars which serve food can open with restrictions, a minimum spend of €9 and a time limit of 90 minutes as well as the Covid 19 social distancing and limits on numbers etc etc.

Bars are getting creative with the providing of food, hiring a food truck but not caring if people don't actually buy the food.
Bars are putting food orders on the bill but telling people don't worry you wont be charged for food you don't want, as The Police just want to see the receipt for food.
Huge rise in house parties

Small rural bars who can't serve food have been closed since March and have no idea when they will reopen. This is causing huge unemployment.

A video has gone viral over the weekend of a bar in Dublin, filled with people in their 20's partying like it was 2109.

The Police are doing checks on bars which are open to make sure they comply with the rules but for every bar they check which is complying, there are 5 more they can't check which are not complying. Its like a cat and mouse game.

There is a meeting today of our National Health Emergency Team as they are not happy with the rising Covid 19 numbers. Its possible there may be more local lockdowns or even a second National lockdown, as the way things are right now is not working to keep the numbers down.

"but death numbers are very low" Bingo!!!

Yet the powers that be and mainstream media continue to spread fear and endorse restrictions.

 

[BadPinkTink]

"but death numbers are very low" Bingo!!!

Yet the powers that be and mainstream media continue to spread fear and endorse restrictions.

don't twist the reality of Ireland to confirm with your political views. The death numbers in Ireland are low as the median age in August of people contracting Covid is 45, due to clusters in meat processing plants and the age of the people who are out and about in bars and restaurants. The Irish Government is worried that that these people will then spread Covid to their older family and friends and to people who have underlying health issues.

There is a meeting today and there will be more restrictions in Ireland, due to the non compliance of the people aged 45 and under.

When the death numbers in Ireland were high, it was due to cluster in care homes and the median age of people dying was 80.

This disease is real , but the ebbs and flows change constantly.

 

[TLSnell1981]

don't twist the reality of Ireland to confirm with your political views. The death numbers in Ireland are low as the median age in August of people contracting Covid is 45, due to clusters in meat processing plants and the age of the people who are out and about in bars and restaurants. The Irish Government is worried that that these people will then spread Covid to their older family and friends and to people who have underlying health issues.

There is a meeting today and there will be more restrictions in Ireland, due to the non compliance of the people aged 45 and under.

When the death numbers in Ireland were high, it was due to cluster in care homes and the median age of people dying was 80.

This disease is real , but the ebbs and flows change constantly.

We must protect the elderly and sick. Although there's the rub...different opinions on how to accomplish this goal. There is a need for sacrifices but do we lock down everyone or focus on the most vulnerable? There has to be a middle ground.

 

[BadPinkTink]

We must protect the elderly and sick. Although there's the rub...different opinions on how to accomplish this goal. There is a need for sacrifices but do we lock down everyone or focus on the most vulnerable? There has to be a middle ground.

In Ireland there is talk that living with Covid 19 and the reopening with restrictions is not working and that the Irish Government should change to eliminating Covid. The national lockdown worked to decrease the numbers, we were down to less than 10 people a day testing positive at one stage. Its very likely that the Irish Government will return to a national lockdown again.

 

[Aladora]

The numbers have just been released for British Columbia for the 3 day period over the weekend. Fri-Sat (100 cases, which is sadly a record single day high for BC), Sat-Sun (88 cases), and Sun-Mon (48 cases).

Do people want to go back to full lockdown? Because this is how you get there.

 

[marcyleecorgan]

The numbers have just been released for British Columbia for the 3 day period over the weekend. Fri-Sat (100 cases, which is sadly a record single day high for BC), Sat-Sun (88 cases), and Sun-Mon (48 cases).

Do people want to go back to full lockdown? Because this is how you get there.

No kidding. Alberta's weekend update number was 359 new cases, yet businesses are preparing to open as normal and even public transit is ending their distancing policy.

 

[TLSnell1981]

In Ireland there is talk that living with Covid 19 and the reopening with restrictions is not working and that the Irish Government should change to eliminating Covid. The national lockdown worked to decrease the numbers, we were down to less than 10 people a day testing positive at one stage. Its very likely that the Irish Government will return to a national lockdown again.

Y'all may be locked down until the end of time if eradication is the new goal.

 

[maddiel]

The numbers have just been released for British Columbia for the 3 day period over the weekend. Fri-Sat (100 cases, which is sadly a record single day high for BC), Sat-Sun (88 cases), and Sun-Mon (48 cases).

Do people want to go back to full lockdown? Because this is how you get there.

No kidding. Alberta's weekend update number was 359 new cases, yet businesses are preparing to open as normal and even public transit is ending their distancing policy.

What do you think is driving the increases in AB and BC? ( and I wish your governments would release their numbers on the weekends!)

M.

 

[Aladora]

What do you think is driving the increases in AB and BC? ( and I wish your governments would release their numbers on the weekends!)

M.

We were really good for the first 2-3 months, I think we were averaging less than 40% of normal interactions and that helped us get a jump on flattening the curve significantly. Because we were doing so well, we then had restrictions lifted. I think that so many people are right now suffering from a bit of fatigue from the first few months of tight restrictions that they are being stupid. We are seeing a big increase in a younger population which is worrying for people like me with kids who are going back to school just after Labour Day.

I don’t really know the answer but I can tell you that Dr. Henry was comfortable with us increasing our social interactions to 60% if normal and people are now around 80%.

 

[ronandannette]

No kidding. Alberta's weekend update number was 359 new cases, yet businesses are preparing to open as normal and even public transit is ending their distancing policy.

Most businesses are already open and have been since June; our mask mandate is in full swing and seems to have pretty good compliance. This thing about transit took everybody by surprise this morning and by mid-afternoon newscasters were suggesting it is in preparation for when school resumes in a few weeks. Most school kids ride transit charters or regular transit buses. Each student is given a monthly bus pass rather than the school boards running yellow buses.

Here's our official stats and an explanation of how 74 of the cases were pre-existing. We've also really ramped up testing over the past week.

 

[marcyleecorgan]

What do you think is driving the increases in AB and BC? ( and I wish your governments would release their numbers on the weekends!)

M.

Official sources say, "Data provided by the Public Health Agency of Canada shows that most cases are the result of community spread, while a little less than a quarter are the result of travelling or close contact with a traveller."

My personal opinion? Asymptomatic spread through community spread. I simply cannot see another answer to "why the rising cases?" that doesn't include the elements of a large population (1 + million people *Austin Powers pinky*, being confined in various dense spaces with re-circulating HVAC air ; while commuting, shopping or working, moving about and through the cities, -being in close contact with others. One family interviewed for local media quickly realized how out of hand the risk can get. The dad had an office job where he had contact with his co-workers but not the public, but the mom was a teacher. With two kids in daycare, they increased their potential exposure to thousands of people, especially when you took into account that these potential contacts also had children, spouses, parents, siblings, etc. in close proximity in their households! When you really sit back and think, yeah, my coworker saw her family this weekend, and they have co-workers, and they use public transit, and and and it goes on and on.
But the labs are running at full capacity (to the point where they have delayed VACCINATION schedules for kids!!!) and we still need more labs, but it's not really a diagnosis that people are keen to leap out and say they want testing for. Contact tracing is highly debatable at this time but the last thing that anyone wants is for their household to lock down, those coworkers to lock down, that business to close for cleaning + employee tests, on and on.
Unfortunately, people seem to be ignoring all advice that encourages "the public good" - gathering, protesting, parties, making mask-wearers uncomfortable in public, etc.
A 14 day incubation period is most concerning with this behavior because we already are two weeks behind in any kind of response. by the time you get to the point that "all the ventilators are gone", you now have exponential cases climbing as triage fills and you have to start making decisions on whose life takes priority because you know you already have two weeks' worth of dying patients in line to use it.
But hey! My neighbors across the street thought it would be cool to have a house party this weekend. *not enough palm for all the face*

https://globalnews.ca/news/7281456/canadians-curbing-coronavirus-survey/

 

[bavaria]

I think that like it or not, the reality is that what we see in Germany/Ireland/Canada etc is going to be with us for quite some time. Infections rising, average age infected lower, hospitalizations and deaths lower. I have gone all over with my emotions about this pandemic, and I am almost back to where I began.

It would be theoretically possible to eradicate the corona virus completely. But in practice the associated follow-up costs are exorbitant. Because not even the rigid lockdowns of business and society that had been enforced for months in individual countries since the outbreak of the pandemic at the beginning of this year managed to make Covid-19 completely disappear.

As it turned out, in a highly intertwined world economy with brisk cross-border goods, business and vacation traffic, national strategies of extermination simply could not be realized. And joint global efforts are not even rudimentarily envisaged. The interests are too different and the costs would be too high for many countries.

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus...0-Strategie-in-die-Anti-Corona-Offensive.html

I've been following this since December, and I mean that quite literally. We've discussed it since then, but I've also travelled around to many of the hotspots and was ok mentally and did not take extra precautions. Then at the end of March I will admit I had a few days of extreme reaction, and am now almost back to where I started. We did achieve the goal of 'flatten the curve', we stocked up on PPE, implemented good contact tracing, increased testing, and ensured hospitals are ready.

I do think that people cannot be kept confined, or made to follow rules, for an extended period. Tink mentioned pubs in Ireland, but she doesn't just mean the ones in Dublin some of you saw when you were on holiday. In villages, the pub is the centre of entertainment. I spent time over the winter in an Irish village which 6 years ago had 15 pubs, and had 3 left last winter. (I haven't checked up with my friend there to see if any more are gone) People by nature are social and seek out others, and at some point they are going to weigh rule breaking with catching an illness. We may not like seeing the young people spreading this around, but I think that we may need to accept that we won't see zero cases in the short term.

 

[bavaria]

And I still think that this is sensible ie travellers from risk areas tested free of charge on arrival at all German airports. If you are leaving, and want a test, for peace of mind, or because you arrival country requires it, you can also get tested at a cost (Frankfurt and Munich airports both have medical centre at normal times, which I have used in past)

https://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/corona-testcenterhttps://corona.centogene.com/
Of course, that requires sufficient tests are available, and results in a quick turnaround (which is possible in Germany) Centogene is based in Germany and that helps, just like deCODE offered to test all Icelanders early in the pandemic. (If we ignore the testing delay/fiasco recently in my namesake state...)

Obviously it's not foolproof, but it does make travel easier. It's just one example though of the big variances between how countries are managing this.

 

[BadPinkTink]

I do think that people cannot be kept confined, or made to follow rules, for an extended period. Tink mentioned pubs in Ireland, but she doesn't just mean the ones in Dublin some of you saw when you were on holiday. In villages, the pub is the centre of entertainment. I spent time over the winter in an Irish village which 6 years ago had 15 pubs, and had 3 left last winter. (I haven't checked up with my friend there to see if any more are gone) People by nature are social and seek out others, and at some point they are going to weigh rule breaking with catching an illness. We may not like seeing the young people spreading this around, but I think that we may need to accept that we won't see zero cases in the short term.

exactly, outside of Dublin the pub is like the town / village social club and not just for young people. Most of them don't serve food, so they have been closed since March.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0809/1158221-rural-pubs-covid/
Rural pub-goers say they miss atmosphere, not drink
Updated / Monday, 10 Aug 2020

With pubs, hotel bars and nightclubs closed until at least 31 August, where does that leave rural pubs in particular, with most of them shut for nearly five months so far?

Pat Gilmore owns Martin's Bar na d'Taoisigh in the rural Galway town of Ballygar.

It has been in the family since the 1830s - and is also the oldest public house in the locality. Pat has been running the pub together with his wife and children since 1986.

Covid restrictions led to the pub closing in March, but back then Pat did not think it would be long before he was back behind the counter.

"At first it was a little bit of a holiday," he said, adding that he thought he would be back open by the first week in June.

He even had a wager with some of his regulars about when the pub would reopen and "naturally I thought it would be open by the first June weekend so I lost my wager".

Bar na d'Taoisigh is a family-run operation in the purest sense. Maeve Gilmore, Pat's daughter, is a student at the University of Limerick and in normal circumstances, would help out behind the bar at weekends.

"I've been collecting glasses for as long as I can remember," she said, and since the pub closed, life has been "very weird".

"I'm 20 years of age and the pub has been open for as long as I can remember," Maeve said.

During the closure Pat and the family have been busy getting the pub ready to trade in a post-Covid environment.

This included repainting the interior, redoing the toilets, introducing hand-sanitising stations and removing a lot of furniture.

But now, a new reality set in - the pub is unlikely to open any time soon.

"If they say we have to remain closed then so be it - but we need compensation. You cannot live on fresh air," said Pat.

He said most of his customers are elderly, and many are farmers. "You'll have a few come in after work, they'll have a couple of drinks and go home. That's the rural scene for you.

"A few farmers might come in at night, they might want to know what happened at the local mart, they might want to know is there anyone dead, they might want to tell the odd lie to create a bit of atmosphere."

Pat Gilmore is adamant rural pubs need more support if they are to survive the extended Covid closure.

He said they need more than what every business is already getting and is calling for supports beyond the 2% VAT reduction, rates relief, and restart grants - which, he said, "everyone is getting".

He pointed out that, because he is 66, he does not get the "Covid payment" and there are many more like him in the pub trade.

"Those aged over 66 who have worked over 50 years in the pub trade are being told 'well you've got the pension, so be it' - and that's it," he said.

Pat said these older publicans have paid their taxes, VAT, and rates "down through the years" and they need additional help now to survive.

Speaking with some of the local customers of Bar na d'Taoisigh in Ballygar - a town of around 300 people - it is clear the role of the pub in rural Ireland is as much about maintaining a community as anything else.

Padraig O'Connor, who has been going to the pub for over 60 years, said: "I would not give a sugar for all the drink in the country - it's the company and the atmosphere when you come in.

"Everyone talks to you, knows you, and you hear the bit of gossip.

"You have a couple of drinks and Pat (Gilmore) will run you home and come out to you in the morning to collect your car ... you can't ask for anything better than that."

Another local, Sean Kilgarriff, has been a patron of Bar na d'Taoisigh in Ballygar for 40 years. "It's not about the drink" for him either.

"Not only do you know who is there but you know where they are sitting ... it's just nice to go down and have a bit of fun with the lads."

 

[BadPinkTink]

For those of you who are interested in numbers and graphs and stats etc you might be interested in this website https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

Its the data hub dashboard for Irelands Covid 19 and is a collaboration between Ordnance Survey Ireland, the All-Island Research Observatory, the Health Protection Surveillance Centre, the Health Service Executive, the Central Statistics Office and the Department of Health.

There are detailed breakdowns of cases, locations, ICU numbers, testing numbers etc etc