DAS Outrage vs Genie Plus Outrage?

[JerrodDragon89]

First off I want to start this off by saying I understand Disney is a business and can do what they want this is more about the outrage I see about DAS abuse vs Genie Plus

So my question's are these.

Back in the day a line was a line, you got in it and first come first serve.

Then it became FP, then Max Pass (which still had a free option)

So now you can be skipped in line by people with more money with you, and it seems like the internet while not happy about it doesn't hate it like they do DAS abuse, the only different is money is being given to Disney. Either way you have to wait longer, so why isn't there an outrage that people can just pay to skip you but people seem to think DAS is the issue when there are WAYYYY and I mean WAYYY more people using Genie plus making you wait longer and artificially raising line times making it more tempting for you to have to buy Genie Plus to have a good day.

Second question is DAS works like mobile ordering food, do people dislike those using the app to get food once again making those in line having to wait longer?

My third Thought is if Disney really wanted to stop this to make people show documents, this new policy basically passes the buck to the CM's who are already underpaid and stressed. Now they have to help people if they leave a line and come back?

Anyway, lets try to keep this as respectful as possible but I feel like I would like to understand Disney guests mind set more. To me Genie Plus is the bigger insult it's literally letting people with more money have better trips even as you pay insane prices for a ticket or Magic Key. Thanks for the input

 

[foolish_mortals]

The component that you didn’t discuss, is that there is a non-insignificant amount of dishonest people lying to get DAS.

I think that’s why people are more upset with DAS since there are social media personalities bragging about lying. Others have also overhead other guests lying about it as well.

That’s the biggest difference in the perception people have between Genie+ vs DAS.

 

[JerrodDragon89]

The component that you didn’t discuss, is that there is a non-insignificant amount of dishonest people lying to get DAS.

I think that’s why people are more upset with DAS since there are social media personalities bragging about lying. Others have also overhead other guests lying about it as well.

That’s the biggest difference in the perception people have between Genie+ vs DAS.

What's interesting is people started to Lie the moment skipping the line went from Free to Paid

Which i think is part of this discussion as well. Some blame streamers but it went up 5 Times as much, do it's not them doing this is normal guests.

I also wish Disney just asked for a Doctors note so CM's weren't the ones who will have to deal with this.

Thanks for the freedback

 

[foolish_mortals]

Second question is DAS works like mobile ordering food, do people dislike those using the app to get food once again making those in line having to wait longer?

Yes, some people do have a problem with this. Especially early post Covid, when they didn’t have nearly as many manned kiosks. Times for lunch would fill up by 10am. There were a lot of complaints.

The same complaints about mobile order reappear during after hours events, when limited time food options will have their mobile order space fill up before the event even starts.

 

[foolish_mortals]

What's interesting is people started to Lie the moment skipping the line went from Free to Paid

Which i think is part of this discussion as well. Some blame streamers but it went up 5 Times as much, do it's not them doing this is normal guests.

I also wish Disney just asked for a Doctors note so CM's weren't the ones who will have to deal with this.

Thanks for the freedback

I’m sure that definitely increased it, but the realities dishonest people will always be dishonest if they feel that it gives them an advantage.

Unfortunately increasing the difficulty of obtaining DAS will only make those who need it annoyed, angry, sad, and frustrated. Those that don’t will still find a way to game the system to their benefit. We saw it with GAC and previous iterations of DAS

 

[irlandaise]

The component that you didn’t discuss, is that there is a non-insignificant amount of dishonest people lying to get DAS.

Exactly. There's a vast difference between people who follow the rules and get in the Lightning Lane because they've paid for it, and people who don't follow the rules and get a DAS pass because they've lied. The latter is disrespectful both to people who follow the rules and are stuck in the standby line, and to people who get DAS passes legitimately.

 

[JerrodDragon89]

I’m sure that definitely increased it, but the realities dishonest people will always be dishonest if they feel that it gives them an advantage.

Unfortunately increasing the difficulty of obtaining DAS will only make those who need it annoyed, angry, sad, and frustrated. Those that don’t will still find a way to game the system to their benefit. We saw it with GAC and previous iterations of DAS

At least the people I know who use DAS, have no problem providing doc's

Maybe some other people it would upset but to me that feels like the best way to solve the issue

 

[BlueGreen5]

DAS is not a "free version" of G+. That's like saying that a trailer is a free version of a movie. Disney needs to correct that perception. Disney is a marketing behemoth and they're being outdone by some influencers without a fight? Not likely.

DAS has its problems, none of which are related to the definition of "disability" or, frankly, people lying about having one. I say that having a DAS person in my family who will continue to qualify under the new rules, the Universal rules, or a medical record requirement. I would vote to keep the expansive definition and correct the actual problems that are really creating the inequities that are appealing to the outright liars.

The first problem is advance selections. For most DAS users, candidly including my group, that's totally unnecessary. That should be an accommodation to meet a specific, narrow issue, that can be granted by a CM at their discretion. Not an automatic thing. I rejected these on our last trip and do not plan to accept these for our next trip. A good part of me wonders whether this was just intended to be a carrot to get people to register for DAS as soon as possible during the COVID years.

The second problem is the ability to do other things while waiting on the return time. Disney surely could incorporate a rule into its DAS technology/MDE app that cancels return times if anyone in the group picks up a mobile order, checks into a dining reservation, uses an ILL, exits the park, purchases something, etc. - things you can't do in line. That would remove virtually all of the inequities.

The third problem is Disney needs to enforce its lifetime ban against liars to balance the risk/reward calculus. It's as plain and simple as that. If you brag on social media about lying to get DAS, it should be simple enough for Disney to figure out which Magic Band was used to tap in and ban that individual. For heavens sake, they are already publicly using biometric scanning.

If DAS users are required to actually wait the same amount of time to get a ride as anyone else, albeit perhaps in a different location, and miss all of the cool queue stuff that makes up a significant portion of many attractions in doing so, do we really care if someone is only arguably "disabled?" Are we so in love with the overflow lines snaking through Fantasyland at 2:00 that we must fight to keep them at all cost?

The new rules are a red herring, IMO. They miss the mark horribly and are not going to address any part of the problem. This makes me sad because it likely means even more overhaul to DAS in the near term.

 

[foolish_mortals]

At least the people I know who use DAS, have no problem providing doc's

Maybe some other people it would upset but to me that feels like the best way to solve the issue

For some obtaining a note isn’t easy.

Also to be honest, documents wouldn’t completely solve the lying/dishonesty problem. It’s fairly easy for dishonest people to find dishonest doctors to provide documentation.

At some point they have to say “we’re okay with a certain amount of dishonesty if it means those that need accommodation can get it without too many hurdles”

Disney adjusts the process whenever they notice there is too much “abuse”, whatever they define “abuse” as.

 

[JerrodDragon89]

For some obtaining a note isn’t easy.

Also to be honest, documents wouldn’t completely solve the lying/dishonesty problem. It’s fairly easy for dishonest people to find dishonest doctors to provide documentation.

At some point they have to say “we’re okay with a certain amount of dishonesty if it means those that need accommodation can get it without too many hurdles”

Disney adjusts the process whenever they notice there is too much “abuse”, whatever they define “abuse” as.

Interesting, If I can ask what medial reasons are hard to get notes for if you dont mind me asking

My friends with Bathroom issues can get notes, so I'm ignorant and thought it must be easy for most people to get one if they have conditions

 

[CWTC]

so why isn't there an outrage that people can just pay to skip you but people seem to think DAS is the issue when there are WAYYYY and I mean WAYYY more people using Genie plus making you wait longer and artificially raising line times making it more tempting for you to have to buy Genie Plus to have a good day.

People can pay more to get something different or better. There shouldn’t be an outrage against people who choose to buy something. Should there be outrage against people who stay at deluxe resorts? At people who use VIP tours? At people who buy a bmw vs a ford? First class vs coach? No. Because that’s how society is set up.

Disney created this monster of DAS liars, fakers etc by providing better access in the form of prearranged rides and by charging for Genie+. They incentivized people to fake it to get a DAS.

Don’t be angry at people who buy Genie+ or who genuinely need a DAS (it’s clear based on social media that people are not only lying but bragging about it and encourage others to cheat the system)

 

[JerrodDragon89]

People can pay more to get something different or better. There shouldn’t be an outrage against people who choose to buy something. Should there be outrage against people who stay at deluxe resorts? At people who use VIO tours? At people who buy a bmw vs a ford? First class vs coach? No. Because that’s how society is set up.

Disney created this monster of DAS liars, fakers etc by providing better access in the form of prearranged rides and by charging for Genie+. They incentivized people to fake it to get a DAS.

Don’t be angry at people who buy Genie+ or who genuinely need a DAS (it’s clear based on social media that people are not only lying but bragging about it and encourage others to cheat the system)

I mean, I'm upset at Disney for making a tier System in the parks

Add the 30 bucks to tickets and have one line. Done

 

[joseph821]

Are the new policies effectively immediately? On June 18th? I know on June 18th the processing of in-person registration for DAS will take place at the old ticket booths in the Esplanade.

 

[JerrodDragon89]

Are the new policies effectively immediately? On June 18th? I know on June 18th the processing of in-person registration for DAS will take place at the old ticket booths in the Esplanade.

Wait...I didn't see that.

So no more using online to apply?

 

[joseph821]

Wait...I didn't see that.

So no more using online to apply?

You can do it online/video ahead of time as well. In person is no longer at Guest Relations or its kiosks to register.

 

[mgarbowski]

What's interesting is people started to Lie the moment skipping the line went from Free to Paid

That's not remotely true.
Disability fraud with the completely free FastPass system was so bad in 2013 that Disney thoroughly overhauled how it handled park disability accomodations. They were sued to return to the old system and won that case in 2020.
https://leader.pubs.asha.org/do/10.1044/leader.NIB1.25102020.14/full/

Complaining about G+ seems rather arbitrary. Some Disney hotels cost more than others, and some guests will never afford the deluxe resorts, which also get, among other benefits, special exclusive park hours that make it easier to avoid lines. Restaurants, dessert parties, and other assorted premium experiences also cost more. For some, a Disney vacation is entirely out of reach. There's no good reason to draw the line at G+.

On the other hand, fraud is deceptive and unethical.

 

[JerrodDragon89]

That's not remotely true.
Disability fraud with the completely free FastPass system was so bad in 2013 that Disney thoroughly overhauled how it handled park disability accomodations. They were sued to return to the old system and won that case in 2020.
https://leader.pubs.asha.org/do/10.1044/leader.NIB1.25102020.14/full/

Complaining about G+ seems rather arbitrary. Some Disney hotels cost more than others, and some guests will never afford the deluxe resorts, which also get, among other benefits, special exclusive park hours that make it easier to avoid lines. Restaurants, dessert parties, and other assorted premium experiences also cost more. For some, a Disney vacation is entirely out of reach. There's no good reason to draw the line at G+.

On the other hand, fraud is deceptive and unethical.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777730789133648380

Per Disney on this it has tripled in the past 5 years.

So Genie Plus was apart of the abuse the time;line lines up pretty well

 

[irlandaise]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777730789133648380

Per Disney on this it has tripled in the past 5 years.

So Genie Plus was apart of the abuse the time;line lines up pretty well

What has tripled in the past five years?

There's no mention of tripling, DAS abuse, or Genie+ on the Disneyland page shown in the X posting you quoted:

https://disneyland.disney.go.com/guest-services/disability-access-service/

 

[JerrodDragon89]

What has tripled in the past five years?

There's no mention of tripling, DAS abuse, or Genie+ on the Disneyland page shown in the X posting you quoted:

https://disneyland.disney.go.com/guest-services/disability-access-service/

Its in Scotts Replies to the thread I posted

According to Disney officials, DAS usage in the parks has tripled over the past 5 years. I hope these changes will help reduce misuse of the system that has negatively impacted the experience for guests who truly need the service.

 

[HerzerHerrick]

ve

First off I want to start this off by saying I understand Disney is a business and can do what they want this is more about the outrage I see about DAS abuse vs Genie Plus

So my question's are these.

Back in the day a line was a line, you got in it and first come first serve.

Then it became FP, then Max Pass (which still had a free option)

So now you can be skipped in line by people with more money with you, and it seems like the internet while not happy about it doesn't hate it like they do DAS abuse, the only different is money is being given to Disney. Either way you have to wait longer, so why isn't there an outrage that people can just pay to skip you but people seem to think DAS is the issue when there are WAYYYY and I mean WAYYY more people using Genie plus making you wait longer and artificially raising line times making it more tempting for you to have to buy Genie Plus to have a good day.

Second question is DAS works like mobile ordering food, do people dislike those using the app to get food once again making those in line having to wait longer?

My third Thought is if Disney really wanted to stop this to make people show documents, this new policy basically passes the buck to the CM's who are already underpaid and stressed. Now they have to help people if they leave a line and come back?

Anyway, lets try to keep this as respectful as possible but I feel like I would like to understand Disney guests mind set more. To me Genie Plus is the bigger insult it's literally letting people with more money have better trips even as you pay insane prices for a ticket or Magic Key. Thanks for the input

Complaining that people with more money have better trips or vacations is silly. Rich folks have always had more privileges that is never going to go away when it come to a business. Disney is a business first and foremost so they are going to do whatever it takes to maximize profit. I expect if the number of people using Das decreases the availability of Genie plus will go up to maximize profit. It all comes down to money folks. And before I start getting accusations of being a rich entitled fat cat. I am just simply a High School teacher who understands Economics.