Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[cm8]

For this reason, some Disney boards and other sources of Disney information have cut ties with David's and will no longer recommend their services anymore.

As they should. It could potentially cause their businesses to fail too. I know I would not want to be associated with any business that couldn’t give a rats behind about making his/ her customers whole even at his/ her loss.

 

[merry_nbright]

As they should. It could potentially cause their businesses to fail too. I know I would not want to be associated with any business that couldn’t give a rats behind about making his/ her customers whole even at his/ her loss.

After this, I’ll never do it again, I know that much. It’s scared me off renting points all the way around.

 

[McCrae]

I think that those who believe their money to be safe if they’ve been paid the 70% via PayPal had better think again. AFAIK, nothing is stopping PP disputes from David’s against owners. Correct me if I am wrong...

PayPal protection doesn’t extend to real estate transactions.

 

[CraigInPA]

“Under Florida contract law, the defense of ‘impossibility’ may be asserted in situations ‘where purposes for which the contract was made, have, on one side become impossible to perform.’” Harvey v. Lake Buena Vista Resort, LLC, 568 F. Supp. 2d 1354 ... “Acts of God” and governmental action are among several types of business risks which implicate the impossibility defense.” ...
Events that may make performance of the contract impossible include:

• supervening governmental action that makes performance of the contract illegal;

You're missing the fact that David's contract specifies the contract is governed under the laws of Canada, not Florida. So, while what you've quoted is interesting, it's not relevant to the contracts in question.

 

[luvthatmouseinohio]

All of which is why the Rental market will take a huge hit. Would you gamble after this? If I was going to consider renting points after this it would probably have to be $6/point (no more than whatever maintenance fees are).

I have rented points for this Thanksgiving directly from an owner here on this forum. I contacted him this week to potentially cancel the reservation because I really don’t want to go even if the parks and resorts are open. My 75 year old mom has COPD and lives with me so she’s really a high risk. The owner absolutely will not refund even part of the reservation. Said he could potentially reschedule depending on where things stand when the time grows closer. I don’t blame him, but I will definitely not take the risk of renting DVC points again since reservations at regular Disney resorts are refundable.

 

[starry_solo]

Pretty sure G&S. So renters file a charge back, he files a dispute & owners are left holding the whole empty bag...

ok. Then yes, he can show the reservation was cancelled, which is what he “paid” for....I agree, owners will be left holding the bag

 

[TS1998a]

Looks like he finally got smart and amended his contract. Here is a section from the updated sample on the site.

"12. In the event of a Force Majeure (as defined in this paragraph), each party shall be excused from any future performance of obligations under this agreement; provided, however that if Intermediary has collected 100% of the funds for the reservation from Renter, Intermediary will provide to Renter a Credit which is limited in value to the amount paid for the reservation which is _______________ US Dollars on such terms and conditions as determined by Intermediary in its sole discretion, as soon as is reasonably possible after the condition(s) constituting the Force Majeure event is/are notified by Intermediary to Renter and Owner. A Force Majeure is an event beyond the Intermediary’s reasonable control which renders performance of a rental reservation with respect to Owner’s rented points impossible or substantially impaired, including without limitation, acts of God, acts of government, embargoes, war, riot, epidemic, pandemic, natural disaster, governmental order restrictions and Disney Vacation Club closures or cancellation of reservations."

 

[starry_solo]

PayPal protection doesn’t extend to real estate transactions.

it goes both ways though. No seller protection. No buyer protection. Which is why if someone is paid as goods and services, the buyer can likely show services not rendered.

plus, what did David’s use as a form of payment? Credit card or PayPal balance. If it were me, I would have used a credit card as the second form of protection if/when PayPal decided to rule against me.

 

[McCrae]

it goes both ways though. No seller protection. No buyer protection. Which is why if someone is paid as goods and services, the buyer can likely show services not rendered.

plus, what did David’s use as a form of payment? Credit card or PayPal balance. If it were me, I would have used a credit card as the second form of protection if/when PayPal decided to rule against me.

The specific point this post relates to the transaction between David’s and Owners. Renters made no Direct payment to owners. David’s would not be able to secure repayments from owners via PayPal. In addition David’s have supplied written confirmation to Owners that providing it is Disney that has cancelled the reservation they accept the owner has completed the contract with them.

 

[Phatscott25]

After reading this I'm so glad as an owner I've only ever rented my points through the other broker. All those contracts already specifically stated disease/pandemics in the no cancel clause. I'm a June use year and thankfully had mostly borrowed points for a renter's April reservation and was able to help them out with a re-scheduled reservation in the fall. But I was assured that even if I didn't, I'd still get paid my additional 25% even though the guest couldn't check in.

 

[Madame]

The specific point this post relates to the transaction between David’s and Owners. Renters made no Direct payment to owners. David’s would not be able to secure repayments from owners via PayPal. In addition David’s have supplied written confirmation to Owners that providing it is Disney that has cancelled the reservation they accept the owner has completed the contract with them.

It would seem they’ve changed their mind about that

 

[Sandisw]

Looks like he finally got smart and amended his contract. Here is a section from the updated sample on the site.

"12. In the event of a Force Majeure (as defined in this paragraph), each party shall be excused from any future performance of obligations under this agreement; provided, however that if Intermediary has collected 100% of the funds for the reservation from Renter, Intermediary will provide to Renter a Credit which is limited in value to the amount paid for the reservation which is _______________ US Dollars on such terms and conditions as determined by Intermediary in its sole discretion, as soon as is reasonably possible after the condition(s) constituting the Force Majeure event is/are notified by Intermediary to Renter and Owner. A Force Majeure is an event beyond the Intermediary’s reasonable control which renders performance of a rental reservation with respect to Owner’s rented points impossible or substantially impaired, including without limitation, acts of God, acts of government, embargoes, war, riot, epidemic, pandemic, natural disaster, governmental order restrictions and Disney Vacation Club closures or cancellation of reservations."

What is interesting is the contract with the owner is not changed. So, what does that mean for the owner if it happens? Do they still get the 30% regardless, or do they have to return money?

 

[rkstocke5609]

I have rented points for this Thanksgiving directly from an owner here on this forum. I contacted him this week to potentially cancel the reservation because I really don’t want to go even if the parks and resorts are open. My 75 year old mom had COPD and lives with me so she’s really a high risk. The owner absolutely will not refund even part of the reservation. Said he could potentially reschedule depending on where things stand when the time grows closer. I don’t blame him, but I will definitely not take the risk of renting DVC points again since reservations at regular Disney resorts are refundable.

So sorry to hear about this. Is it possible to find another interested party in the dates and effectively “sub-lease” the reservation and have the owner change the name(s) on the reservation? You might have to offer it at 60-70% of what you paid but if it’s allowed I would pursue something like this if it were me.

 

[twinklebug]

Looks like he finally got smart and amended his contract. Here is a section from the updated sample on the site.

"12. In the event of a Force Majeure (as defined in this paragraph), each party shall be excused from any future performance of obligations under this agreement; provided, however that if Intermediary has collected 100% of the funds for the reservation from Renter, Intermediary will provide to Renter a Credit which is limited in value to the amount paid for the reservation which is _______________ US Dollars on such terms and conditions as determined by Intermediary in its sole discretion, as soon as is reasonably possible after the condition(s) constituting the Force Majeure event is/are notified by Intermediary to Renter and Owner. A Force Majeure is an event beyond the Intermediary’s reasonable control which renders performance of a rental reservation with respect to Owner’s rented points impossible or substantially impaired, including without limitation, acts of God, acts of government, embargoes, war, riot, epidemic, pandemic, natural disaster, governmental order restrictions and Disney Vacation Club closures or cancellation of reservations."

In the past I would have read that contract, come to the "epidemic, pandemic,.... etc" part and said "yeah, they're covering all their bases, but that will never happen."

Live and learn.

 

[cmrdgrs]

In the past I would have read that contract, come to the "epidemic, pandemic,.... etc" part and said "yeah, they're coving all their bases, but that will never happen."

Live and learn.

 

[Krandor]

Looks like he finally got smart and amended his contract. Here is a section from the updated sample on the site.

"12. In the event of a Force Majeure (as defined in this paragraph), each party shall be excused from any future performance of obligations under this agreement; provided, however that if Intermediary has collected 100% of the funds for the reservation from Renter, Intermediary will provide to Renter a Credit which is limited in value to the amount paid for the reservation which is _______________ US Dollars on such terms and conditions as determined by Intermediary in its sole discretion, as soon as is reasonably possible after the condition(s) constituting the Force Majeure event is/are notified by Intermediary to Renter and Owner. A Force Majeure is an event beyond the Intermediary’s reasonable control which renders performance of a rental reservation with respect to Owner’s rented points impossible or substantially impaired, including without limitation, acts of God, acts of government, embargoes, war, riot, epidemic, pandemic, natural disaster, governmental order restrictions and Disney Vacation Club closures or cancellation of reservations."

Wow. I would not rent points under those terms. Basically, in another pandemic you get a credit only under whatever terms david decides whenevrer he gets around to doing it. Talk about a 1-way clause.

 

[cmrdgrs]

Wow. I would not rent points under those terms. Basically, in another pandemic you get a credit only under whatever terms david decides whenevrer he gets around to doing it. Talk about a 1-way clause.

Not a lawyer, but in the event of this going to court, the contract might not hold up under scrutiny of a judge. But, of course the contract also states any legal disputes have to be settled in Canada. Since 95% of his business is probably US based... IMO, yeah ain't gonna end up in court by a US citizen.

 

[luvthatmouseinohio]

So sorry to hear about this. Is it possible to find another interested party in the dates and effectively “sub-lease” the reservation and have the owner change the name(s) on the reservation? You might have to offer it at 60-70% of what you paid but if it’s allowed I would pursue something like this if it were me.

That is actually a great idea and gives me something to think about. Thank you!

 

[Dracula]

So sorry to hear about this. Is it possible to find another interested party in the dates and effectively “sub-lease” the reservation and have the owner change the name(s) on the reservation? You might have to offer it at 60-70% of what you paid but if it’s allowed I would pursue something like this if it were me.

Yes, it is totally possible. The owner can change any guest name and address online, except for the primary guest, for which the owner would need to call DVC Member Services (good luck with that).

 

[Sandisw]

Yes, it is totally possible. The owner can change any guest name and address online, except for the primary guest, for which the owner would need to call DVC Member Services (good luck with that).

It is still up to the owner, though, and they may not be willing to change the names.

But, it would be a great solution for a renter in this situation!