death of owner question

[rock_doctor]

Hi all,
I have a question that i am sure has been asked many times but the science major in me wants a direct and specific answer...so i need to ask again... sorry

We have four dvc contracts with disney (2 direct and 2 resale - three member ids) all are deeded as rights of survivorship - they were joint owned by the both of us. Mom passed away a couple days ago. Do i really need to retitle the contracts or can i just leave it as is. Since it has rights of survival it should not need to be probated. I know i should ask a lawyer but you would not believe how many people jump out of the wood work wanting money when someone passes away and she has no debts.... I am trying to stem the bleeding... Anyway, can i just leave her on the deed and deal with it when i want to sell? Can i rent the points with her on the deed? I should call Member Admin but i don't want to rock the boat by talking to them until i have a good idea of what really needs to be done, which sometimes is not the same as what should be done.

Thanks, i appreciate it. Plan to list one contract with Davids to cover the dues.

 

[southerngirl528]

Hi all,
I have a question that i am sure has been asked many times but the science major in me wants a direct and specific answer...so i need to ask again... sorry

We have four dvc contracts with disney (2 direct and 2 resale - three member ids) all are deeded as rights of survivorship - they were joint owned by the both of us. Mom passed away a couple days ago. Do i really need to retitle the contracts or can i just leave it as is. Since it has rights of survival it should not need to be probated. I know i should ask a lawyer but you would not believe how many people jump out of the wood work wanting money when someone passes away and she has no debts.... I am trying to stem the bleeding... Anyway, can i just leave her on the deed and deal with it when i want to sell? Can i rent the points with her on the deed? I should call Member Admin but i don't want to rock the boat by talking to them until i have a good idea of what really needs to be done, which sometimes is not the same as what should be done.

Thanks, i appreciate it. Plan to list one contract with Davids to cover the dues.

First, my sincere condolences on the passing of your mom. I am not a lawyer, but if I am understanding you correctly it sounds like you're okay. If I were you, I would make a call to Member Administration next week and ask them. They are the docs people at DVC. They work bankers hours, Mon-Friday. Good luck with everything.

 

[denecarter]

I have no answers for your questions, but I am sorry for your loss.

 

[keaster]

So sorry for your loss. I would think you are correct, if you are co-owners things would not change. But as suggested above, call Member Administration and they should have the answers.

 

[Bing Showei]

Given all that's on your plate, you may want to consider doing a transfer for your current UY and next UY points instead of renting. You could easily get as much $/point as you would get from a broker for a rental. The difference is, once transferred, your part is done.

Additionally, you'll also get your entire payment all at once, prior to moving any points into the transferee's account. Whereas with renting, the money you get from the broker will come in two parts, 70% at time of contract signing and then the remaining 30% on the check-in day. This may be a date nearly a year from now. During that time, your contract would be tied up with the rental and you would not be able to close on a sale of that contract... save for a perfect storm.

 

[rock_doctor]

Given all that's on your plate, you may want to consider doing a transfer for your current UY and next UY points instead of renting. You could easily get as much $/point as you would get from a broker for a rental. The difference is, once transferred, your part is done.

Additionally, you'll also get your entire payment all at once, prior to moving any points into the transferee's account. Whereas with renting, the money you get from the broker will come in two parts, 70% at time of contract signing and then the remaining 30% on the check-in day. This may be a date nearly a year from now. During that time, your contract would be tied up with the rental and you would not be able to close on a sale of that contract... save for a perfect storm.

I am not totally following you. I am not going to sell anything at this time but just want the points rental to cover the yearly dues. I had not thought about the 30% down range...that will mean i am still going to be out of pocket for this year on the dues. Is there a trusted company that deals with the clump points transfers? ...and i thought to be able to do a transfer the two contracts have to be with the same owners? thanks for the help it is appreciated.

 

[Bing Showei]

I am not totally following you. I am not going to sell anything at this time but just want the points rental to cover the yearly dues. I had not thought about the 30% down range...that will mean i am still going to be out of pocket for this year on the dues. Is there a trusted company that deals with the clump points transfers? ...and i thought to be able to do a transfer the two contracts have to be with the same owners? thanks for the help it is appreciated.

Anyway, can i just leave her on the deed and deal with it when i want to sell?

If you plan to sell before the rental, which could be out as far as 11 months, you won't be able to close.

You can transfer your points to any owner who has not used their one-time transfer (in or out) for that UY. I believe the TimeshareStore (http://www.dvc-resales.com/) brokers transfers. Most people go through the rent/trade boards here (https://www.disboards.com/forums/dvc-rent-trade.29/).

ETA: Links

 

[rock_doctor]

You can transfer your points to any owner who has not used their one-time transfer (in or out) for that UY. I believe the TimeshareStore (http://www.dvc-resales.com/) brokers transfers. Most people go through the rent/trade boards here (https://www.disboards.com/forums/dvc-rent-trade.29/).

ETA: Links

I don't want to sell any contracts at this point. Her passing was only three days ago and i am trying to not make permanent decisions as the future is still too "up in the air".

Ok. so i think i got it. I can post to the boards that i have 229pts at BLT for 2019 (February use year) and i would want basically to sell the whole lot as you can only get one transfer out. I charge $15/pt as they can be used up to ??? February 2020???. Since it is a transfer i am not responsible to make the reservation nor any issues with the owners in the room as it is their reservation and they are already DVC. If they own someplace else would they still get home resort priority at BLT since the points are homed at BLT? I didn't know you could do this. How do you make sure you get paid and they can't do a charge back once the points are transferred? Thanks for the info.

I also don't understand the gold/platinum renters banners on their avatar? I assume this is for people who make the reservations for people which i don't want to do.

 

[Marionnette]

I don't want to sell any contracts at this point. Her passing was only three days ago and i am trying to not make permanent decisions as the future is still too "up in the air".

Ok. so i think i got it. I can post to the boards that i have 229pts at BLT for 2019 (February use year) and i would want basically to sell the whole lot as you can only get one transfer out. I charge $15/pt as they can be used up to ??? February 2020???. Since it is a transfer i am not responsible to make the reservation nor any issues with the owners in the room as it is their reservation and they are already DVC. If they own someplace else would they still get home resort priority at BLT since the points are homed at BLT? I didn't know you could do this. How do you make sure you get paid and they can't do a charge back once the points are transferred? Thanks for the info.

I also don't understand the gold/platinum renters banners on their avatar? I assume this is for people who make the reservations for people which i don't want to do.

The Gold/Platinum DVC banners are for people who want to rent out their points but do not meet the posting requirements set forth by the admins (i.e. how frequently they post, how recently they have been active, etc). Those posters pay for the privilege of being able to post their points for rent. It has nothing to do with any kind of disboard rating.

It sounds like you have a good grasp on how point transfers are handled. It involves a good deal of trust because once the points have been moved from your account into the other member's account, there is no way to get them back. And since, officially, DVC does not permit point transfers to involve money changing hands, they will not help you out if something goes awry with the deal. To answer your other question, the points retain the UY and home resort when they are transferred. So you Feb UY BLT points would still be Feb UY BLT points in the other member's account even if they have a Dec UY at VGF.

My condolences on the loss of your mom. Please take the time to grieve and deal with some of the more immediate tasks that need to be addressed (social security, bank accounts, insurance claims, etc.) The DVC account will be there when you're ready to make that call.

 

[drusba]

If the ownership was joint tenancy with right of survivorship. you do not have to do anything immediately to change the deed. By law you automatically become the sole owner. The property is also not subject to your mom's probate proceedings (although it is property that could be considered subject to estate taxes but she would first need many millions in assets for that to be an issue) . Changing the deed is actually not necessary until you want to sell the property. The only thing you need to do in the fairly near future is inform DVC of the death and that you should be considered the only member, particularly if DVC was sending her all the annual statements and bills for dues.

Later you may want to consider changing ownership to a living trust or to add another owner in joint tenancy with right of survivorship. If you remain the sole owner on the deed, the property would be subject to probate in Florida upon your death and probate in Florida is not a fun (meaning inexpensive) activity.

One other thing you should do now is make sure you get a number of certified copies of her death certificate. You are going to need those to make any change to the deed later and to make any changes to her bank accounts, particularly if you had one jointly with her used for purpose of DVC.

If you are intending to rent the points out in the future, you should do your homework and learn everything you can about renting or transfering points. If you want to avoid much of the hassle of renting, you should consider contacting one of the rental brokers, such as David's, DVCrequest.com.

 

[peabody58]

In process of putting together a trust for DW and myself. We will be using LT Transfers to change DVC deed to our trust, which will then avoid probate for our daughters when we both pass away.

 

[rock_doctor]

If the ownership was joint tenancy with right of survivorship. you do not have to do anything immediately to change the deed. By law you automatically become the sole owner. The property is also not subject to your mom's probate proceedings (although it is property that could be considered subject to estate taxes but she would first need many millions in assets for that to be an issue) . Changing the deed is actually not necessary until you want to sell the property. The only thing you need to do in the fairly near future is inform DVC of the death and that you should be considered the only member, particularly if DVC was sending her all the annual statements and bills for dues.

Later you may want to consider changing ownership to a living trust or to add another owner in joint tenancy with right of survivorship. If you remain the sole owner on the deed, the property would be subject to probate in Florida upon your death and probate in Florida is not a fun (meaning inexpensive) activity.

One other thing you should do now is make sure you get a number of certified copies of her death certificate. You are going to need those to make any change to the deed later and to make any changes to her bank accounts, particularly if you had one jointly with her used for purpose of DVC.

If you are intending to rent the points out in the future, you should do your homework and learn everything you can about renting or transfering points. If you want to avoid much of the hassle of renting, you should consider contacting one of the rental brokers, such as David's, DVCrequest.com.

Yea it has just been a nightmare and i am still in the learning stage. I gotta do probate in NJ because the horrible title company put no transfer wording into the deed. The house was co-owned but it just says our two names. I assume that is tenancy in common which means probate... As the saying goes "if you knew then what you know now" nothing would have been put into her name... I would love to go with Dave but the 30% hold back means i would have to lay out a grand and i don't know if i will have it when dues come due. I am a firm believer in not counting on anything until you have it in your hot little hands...

I do appreciate everybody's responses. So much of it i did not know. I also do appreciate the positive wishes. Thank you very much.

 

[bumbershoot]

I’m so sorry for your loss.

I know i should ask a lawyer but you would not believe how many people jump out of the wood work wanting money when someone passes away and she has no debts

I’m a little concerned about this statement. My mom had no debts and no one wanted money after she passed. Well except for doctors, but a letter from my stepdad laying out exactly what they missed in the last month of them treating her stopped those bills.

And my former father in law only had bonafide creditors wanting money. No one else.

I don't want to sell any contracts at this point.

I believe the poster was being thorough since you mentioned selling once or twice in your first post. Without knowing when that process would be, he was making sure you understood that a rental during a selling process would delay things.

I also don't understand the gold/platinum renters banners on their avatar? I assume this is for people who make the reservations for people which i don't want to do.

If you rent out points it will in fact be you making the reservations. Even if you use a broker. You’re the owner so only you can do that.

It’s why a transfer would be better in your circumstance. Just don’t mention money while talking to Dvc about the transfer as that’s not allowed.

One other thing you should do now is make sure you get a number of certified copies of her death certificate. You are going to need those to make any change to the deed later and to make any changes to her bank accounts, particularly if you had one jointly with her used for purpose of DVC.

Fwiw it took 3 certified death certificates to wrap things up for my then-FIL. AARP suggested getting something like 10, but actually 3 was one more than we really needed. Most places accepted faxes of it (which really makes the certified part silly), and those that required one to be mailed in got it back to us quickly.



rock_doctor...you could call and have the dues switched to monthly payments. As long as you have a US bank account (I don’t know if you’re American or otherwise...just being thorough) you can do that. So it would start in January. No interest is charged. Super-easy.

Sounds like your mom paid them all at once at the start of the year, but that’s just one of the two options.

 

[rock_doctor]

I’m so sorry for your loss.
I’m a little concerned about this statement. My mom had no debts and no one wanted money after she passed. Well except for doctors, but a letter from my stepdad laying out exactly what they missed in the last month of them treating her stopped those bills.

And my former father in law only had bonafide creditors wanting money. No one else.

I believe the poster was being thorough since you mentioned selling once or twice in your first post. Without knowing when that process would be, he was making sure you understood that a rental during a selling process would delay things.

If you rent out points it will in fact be you making the reservations. Even if you use a broker. You’re the owner so only you can do that.
It’s why a transfer would be better in your circumstance. Just don’t mention money while talking to Dvc about the transfer as that’s not allowed.

Fwiw it took 3 certified death certificates to wrap things up for my then-FIL. AARP suggested getting something like 10, but actually 3 was one more than we really needed. Most places accepted faxes of it (which really makes the certified part silly), and those that required one to be mailed in got it back to us quickly.
rock_doctor...you could call and have the dues switched to monthly payments. As long as you have a US bank account (I don’t know if you’re American or otherwise...just being thorough) you can do that. So it would start in January. No interest is charged. Super-easy.

Sounds like your mom paid them all at once at the start of the year, but that’s just one of the two options.

Well you know how it is...it is an unknown process to me but to even ask a question a lawyer wants to charge $350 per hour. There are no debts as i kept up with the bills. Just the normal tax collectors trying to put their hands in our pockets. I was going to go the transfer route then i realized the points i want to sell are February 2019 points. So i could not sell until 2019 and the bill would come due long before that. Will likely just sign up with dave and cover the difference the 30% hold back will keep. I ordered 10 certificated at $6 each (pennsylvania charges $6)...so i should have that covered. Just so much has to be done and it is all so expensive...probate, inheritance tax and capital gains taxes... In the end will walk away with a little more then half of the estate and the local, state and fed gov't will take the remainder and everything was in both of our names. I feel bad about that...mom worked so hard to put all of that together and to lose it to greedy politicians is a sin. Thank you for touching base with me. i appreciate it.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Well you know how it is...it is an unknown process to me but to even ask a question a lawyer wants to charge $350 per hour. There are no debts as i kept up with the bills. Just the normal tax collectors trying to put their hands in our pockets. I was going to go the transfer route then i realized the points i want to sell are February 2019 points. So i could not sell until 2019 and the bill would come due long before that. Will likely just sign up with dave and cover the difference the 30% hold back will keep. I ordered 10 certificated at $6 each (pennsylvania charges $6)...so i should have that covered. Just so much has to be done and it is all so expensive...probate, inheritance tax and capital gains taxes... In the end will walk away with a little more then half of the estate and the local, state and fed gov't will take the remainder and everything was in both of our names. I feel bad about that...mom worked so hard to put all of that together and to lose it to greedy politicians is a sin. Thank you for touching base with me. i appreciate it.

We are well into being able to book for 2019 so yes, you can rent those out or even transfer should you wish. You are allowed to transfer current point or the next use years points. There's no waiting required. It sounds like the 2018 maintenance fees were paid for in a lump sum by your mother. The 2019 fees are due on Jan 15, 2019 but not considered late until after Feb 14th and as mentioned you can set them up for monthly payments and there's no added fee to have it done that way.

 

[Bing Showei]

Well you know how it is...it is an unknown process to me but to even ask a question a lawyer wants to charge $350 per hour. There are no debts as i kept up with the bills. Just the normal tax collectors trying to put their hands in our pockets. I was going to go the transfer route then i realized the points i want to sell are February 2019 points. So i could not sell until 2019 and the bill would come due long before that. Will likely just sign up with dave and cover the difference the 30% hold back will keep. I ordered 10 certificated at $6 each (pennsylvania charges $6)...so i should have that covered. Just so much has to be done and it is all so expensive...probate, inheritance tax and capital gains taxes... In the end will walk away with a little more then half of the estate and the local, state and fed gov't will take the remainder and everything was in both of our names. I feel bad about that...mom worked so hard to put all of that together and to lose it to greedy politicians is a sin. Thank you for touching base with me. i appreciate it.

As @KAT4DISNEY pointed out, you can transfer 2019 points now (as you are into your 2018 UY). And since BLT is considered a "Premium" resort (not HHI, VB, SSR, OKW), and will command a higher transfer/rental rate, anyone looking to transfer your points is going to want to get them specifically to access your home resort advantage. Given that, as of today, anyone looking to travel after February 1, 2019 will want to use your BLT home-resort points.

I still believe transferring your points will provide you with the most flexibility (should things change/come up and you decide you do want to/need to sell sooner than anticipated). Additionally, it will provide you with whatever liquidity your immediate needs may require.

 

[Dean]

I'm sorry for your loss. I don't think there's any reason you have to change anything if it's worded as noted and there are no debts to be cleared. I likely wouldn't unless/until you want to add another person(s) to the deed. LT transfers would be about $700 total to do all 4, I'm not sure you could get anyone to do a package deal but I know LT transfers won't because I asked them related to our Marriott weeks. You could do it yourself for around $160 if you're so inclined assuming all are at WDW.

 

[CarolMN]

I don't want to sell any contracts at this point. Her passing was only three days ago and i am trying to not make permanent decisions as the future is still too "up in the air".

Ok. so i think i got it. I can post to the boards that i have 229pts at BLT for 2019 (February use year) and i would want basically to sell the whole lot as you can only get one transfer out. I charge $15/pt as they can be used up to ??? February 2020???. Since it is a transfer i am not responsible to make the reservation nor any issues with the owners in the room as it is their reservation and they are already DVC. If they own someplace else would they still get home resort priority at BLT since the points are homed at BLT? I didn't know you could do this. How do you make sure you get paid and they can't do a charge back once the points are transferred? Thanks for the info.

I also don't understand the gold/platinum renters banners on their avatar? I assume this is for people who make the reservations for people which i don't want to do.

There is a fee for owners to use the DISboards.com R/T Board to offer their points for rent or transfer. There are several different levels of rental plans and the fee varies according to the level selected. The fee for the basic plan is waived for those who meet the posting requirements. More detailed information can be found in this thread:

**How to use this Board** - PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING - Updated 02/27/2018

It's also pinned to the top of the R/T Forum.

 

[rock_doctor]

There is a fee for owners to use the DISboards.com R/T Board to offer their points for rent or transfer. There are several different levels of rental plans and the fee varies according to the level selected. The fee for the basic plan is waived for those who meet the posting requirements. More detailed information can be found in this thread:

**How to use this Board** - PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING - Updated 02/27/2018

It's also pinned to the top of the R/T Forum.

Ok i sent you a PM.

 

[Frederic Civish]

Is there a trusted company that deals with the clump points transfers?

Almost any of the companies that advertise to do DVC Rentals and “Rent Points” are trustworthy. Multiple times I have used David’s and also DVC-rental.com without any problems at all.

Being inexperienced, and under the stresses you are, it might be better to let someone else handle the details of arranging for the customer and supervising the rentals.

Yes, it MIGHT affect your yearly Income Taxes.