Debt Ceiling Impact

[Kwami]

Doesn't seem to be too late, since they are negotiating. Pretty sure they wouldn't if there was nothing that could be done.

Of course, something can be done. They can just raise the debt ceiling like every other time and stop playing games.

 

[Disney Bobby]

Of course, something can be done. They can just raise the debt ceiling like every other time and stop playing games.

Or they could stop spending money they don't have like drunken sailors. How much debt and inflation do you want?

 

[Kwami]

Or they could stop spending money they don't have like drunken sailors. How much debt and inflation do you want?

Doesn't matter. You're talking about future spending. This is to cover money that we already spent.

 

[cvjw]

Doesn't matter. You're talking about future spending. This is to cover money that we already spent.

Doubt all of the money in the “inflation reduction act” is already spent. Bet a lot of it could be clawed back since we have to borrow money to fund it. They are also trying to claw back unspent covid money.

 

[piccolopat]

The debt ceiling should only be raised to cover essential spending like Social Security and military paychecks. It shouldn't cover funds allocated but not yet spent like Covid funds, projects still being planned but not started, hiring 87000 new IRS agents, etc. Cuts in expenses now to eliminate the need for future debt increases is critical. If a family keeps spending more than their credit card limit, the bank doesn't keep raising their limit. The government should have to live with this kind of limitation and stick with a balanced budget every year except in extreme circumstances.

 

[Southernmiss]

https://www.verifythis.com/article/...heck/536-0981ded4-5c5b-4de9-8db3-eb9bccb2ae7f

No, the IRS is not hiring 87,000 new agents to increase middle-class audits

The majority of IRS hires would fill positions of people leaving the agency over the next decade. That includes staff across departments, not just auditors.

assured Senate members that the agency would not “increase audit scrutiny on small businesses or middle-income Americans.”

According to the Treasury Department spokesperson, “the resources to modernize the IRS will be used to improve taxpayer services, from answering the phones to improving IT systems,” not just audits.

The IRS announced in late October 2022 that it had hired 4,000 new customer service representatives to help answer phones and provide other services ahead of the 2023 tax filing season. Its goal was to add another 1,000 customer service representatives by the end of 2022, bringing the total number of new hires to 5,000.

Previous analyses of the agency have revealed that the IRS needs more employees. National Taxpayer Advocate Erin M. Collins said in her midyear report to Congress, published in June 2022, that many of the challenges the IRS is facing “stem from inadequate staffing, including limited staffing in Submission Processing and telephone call centers.”

Rettig wrote in his letter that the IRS has “fewer front-line, experienced examiners in the field than at any time since World War II, and fewer employees than at any time since the 1970s.”

“Advances in technology have been helpful but have not kept pace with the ever-increasing responsibilities and challenges facing the IRS,” he said. “As a result, the IRS has for too long been unable to pursue meaningful, impactful examinations of large corporate and high-networth taxpayers to ensure they are paying their fair share.”

 

[TLSnell1981]

Doubt all of the money in the “inflation reduction act” is already spent. Bet a lot of it could be clawed back since we have to borrow money to fund it. They are also trying to claw back unspent covid money.

Name it in an attempt to disguise i and weaponize it. OMG Will this ever stop?

 

[TLSnell1981]

https://www.verifythis.com/article/...heck/536-0981ded4-5c5b-4de9-8db3-eb9bccb2ae7f

No, the IRS is not hiring 87,000 new agents to increase middle-class audits

The majority of IRS hires would fill positions of people leaving the agency over the next decade. That includes staff across departments, not just auditors.

assured Senate members that the agency would not “increase audit scrutiny on small businesses or middle-income Americans.”

According to the Treasury Department spokesperson, “the resources to modernize the IRS will be used to improve taxpayer services, from answering the phones to improving IT systems,” not just audits.

The IRS announced in late October 2022 that it had hired 4,000 new customer service representatives to help answer phones and provide other services ahead of the 2023 tax filing season. Its goal was to add another 1,000 customer service representatives by the end of 2022, bringing the total number of new hires to 5,000.

Previous analyses of the agency have revealed that the IRS needs more employees. National Taxpayer Advocate Erin M. Collins said in her midyear report to Congress, published in June 2022, that many of the challenges the IRS is facing “stem from inadequate staffing, including limited staffing in Submission Processing and telephone call centers.”

Rettig wrote in his letter that the IRS has “fewer front-line, experienced examiners in the field than at any time since World War II, and fewer employees than at any time since the 1970s.”

“Advances in technology have been helpful but have not kept pace with the ever-increasing responsibilities and challenges facing the IRS,” he said. “As a result, the IRS has for too long been unable to pursue meaningful, impactful examinations of large corporate and high-networth taxpayers to ensure they are paying their fair share.”

Why are they being "armed" or is that also a "lie"?

 

[adkkev]

Why are they being "armed" or is that also a "lie"?

Who said that? Be specific please.

 

[Southernmiss]

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-IRS-special-agent-gun-028823423140

IRS special agent job ad misrepresented online​

By JOSH KELETYAugust 15, 2022




CLAIM: An online job ad shows that all new employees that the IRS intends to hire after a funding boost in the Inflation Reduction Act will be required to carry a firearm and use deadly force if necessary.
AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. A legitimate job ad for special agents within the small law enforcement division of the IRS that works on criminal investigations is being misrepresented online, officials and experts say. The job description does not apply to most potential new employees that the IRS will hire in the coming years. The vast majority of IRS workers are not armed.
THE FACTS: After Senate Democrats this month passed a $740 billion economic package, which includes nearly $80 billion for the IRS, social media users shared the false claim that all new employees in the agency will be required to carry guns.
Many posts in recent days shared a screenshot that features the IRS logo and the text, “Major Duties.” The listed duties on the image include being able to “carry a firearm and be willing to use deadly force, if necessary.” Social media users claimed that the image was a job ad for thousands of new IRS employees that will be hired as a result of the bill, dubbed the Inflation Reduction Act.
“The IRS is looking to fill 87,000 positions,” one Facebook user who shared the image wrote in a post on Wednesday. “Requirements include working min ‘50 hours per week, which may include irregular hours, and be on-call 24/7, including holidays and weekends’ and ‘Carry a firearm and be willing to use deadly force, if necessary.’”
One Twitter user wrote on Wednesday: “Want to be one of the new 87,000 IRS agents? Are you willing to carry a firearm and use DEADLY FORCE? This is not at all concerning.”
These social media users are falsely depicting a legitimate job ad for a special agent with IRS Criminal Investigation — the agency’s law enforcement division — as a generic ad for all new positions.
While that language does not currently appear on the IRS web page advertising the special agent role, a search of the Internet Archive shows that the same language can be found on the page as recently as last Thursday. Justin Cole, a spokesperson for IRS Criminal Investigation, told The Associated Press that the screenshots circulating online appear to show the special agent web page and confirmed that the language had been on the site but was removed. He said it was removed in error amid the spate of misinformation about IRS employees carrying weapons, but the language will be added back to the web page.
Special agents with IRS Criminal Investigation, who investigate criminal tax violations and other related financial crimes, are the only IRS employees who carry firearms, according to Anny Pachner, a spokesperson for the division. Special agents compose a small sliver of the IRS workforce. There are about 2,000 special agents within the agency, which has roughly 80,000 total employees. The division dates back to 1919 and has always employed armed agents. The agency is currently hiring 300 special agents, according to the online job posting.
Among the agents’ duties are executing search and arrest warrants, as well as seizures, per the posting. This is very different from the work of other IRS employees. For instance, revenue agents work on complex audits of corporations, while customer service representatives answer tax-related questions, according to the IRS. Neither roles are law enforcement positions, unlike IRS Criminal Investigation special agents.
“In reality, only a small fraction of IRS employees – about 2,100 special agents in IRS Criminal Investigation – carry firearms,” Cole wrote in an email to the AP. “This is consistent with other federal law enforcement agencies.”
The claim that the IRS is going to hire 87,000 new agents in general due to the Inflation Reduction Act is also misleading, as the AP has previously reported. The figure comes from a prior Treasury Department proposal to hire roughly that many IRS employees over the next decade, but there is no explicit mandate for such a workforce in the act, officials and experts say. The IRS will finalize its hiring plans in the coming months, according to Treasury officials. Many new IRS hires will replace employees who are expected to retire or quit, and not all of them will be auditors.
The notion that all new IRS employees funded by the bill will be gun-carrying agents is false, according to Heather Field, co-director of the Center on Tax Law at University of California, Hastings College of the Law.
“Any claim that all of the IRS’s anticipated hires per the IRA would be for this division is a misrepresentation,” she wrote in an email to the AP.
___
This is part of AP’s effort to address widely shared misinformation, including work with outside companies and organizations to add factual context to misleading content that is circulating online. Learn more about fact-checking at AP.

 

[Kwami]

The debt ceiling should only be raised to cover essential spending like Social Security and military paychecks. It shouldn't cover funds allocated but not yet spent like Covid funds, projects still being planned but not started, hiring 87000 new IRS agents, etc. Cuts in expenses now to eliminate the need for future debt increases is critical. If a family keeps spending more than their credit card limit, the bank doesn't keep raising their limit. The government should have to live with this kind of limitation and stick with a balanced budget every year except in extreme circumstances.

I don't think that you understand how any of this works.

The government is not a family. The government is not a business. The government does not have a credit card. The government does print its own money and decides how much money exists.

Also, pretty much every family and business takes out loans at some times and pays them back later. Requiring the government to have a balanced budget every year would prevent them from doing this, which is ridiculous. Loans are often beneficial, especially when interest rates are low.

Anyway, if you insist on balancing the budget, then let's cancel the 2017 tax cuts and maybe some of those old Bush tax cuts, too. We all got on just fine in the 90s with the higher rates.

 

[RamblingMad]

https://www.verifythis.com/article/...heck/536-0981ded4-5c5b-4de9-8db3-eb9bccb2ae7f

No, the IRS is not hiring 87,000 new agents to increase middle-class audits

The majority of IRS hires would fill positions of people leaving the agency over the next decade. That includes staff across departments, not just auditors.

assured Senate members that the agency would not “increase audit scrutiny on small businesses or middle-income Americans.”

According to the Treasury Department spokesperson, “the resources to modernize the IRS will be used to improve taxpayer services, from answering the phones to improving IT systems,” not just audits.

The IRS announced in late October 2022 that it had hired 4,000 new customer service representatives to help answer phones and provide other services ahead of the 2023 tax filing season. Its goal was to add another 1,000 customer service representatives by the end of 2022, bringing the total number of new hires to 5,000.

Previous analyses of the agency have revealed that the IRS needs more employees. National Taxpayer Advocate Erin M. Collins said in her midyear report to Congress, published in June 2022, that many of the challenges the IRS is facing “stem from inadequate staffing, including limited staffing in Submission Processing and telephone call centers.”

Rettig wrote in his letter that the IRS has “fewer front-line, experienced examiners in the field than at any time since World War II, and fewer employees than at any time since the 1970s.”

“Advances in technology have been helpful but have not kept pace with the ever-increasing responsibilities and challenges facing the IRS,” he said. “As a result, the IRS has for too long been unable to pursue meaningful, impactful examinations of large corporate and high-networth taxpayers to ensure they are paying their fair share.”

Let's not raise taxes or enforce it. And people wonder why we hit the ceiling.

 

[RamblingMad]

I don't think that you understand how any of this works.

The government is not a family. The government is not a business. The government does not have a credit card. The government does print its own money and decides how much money exists.

Also, pretty much every family and business takes out loans at some times and pays them back later. Requiring the government to have a balanced budget every year would prevent them from doing this, which is ridiculous. Loans are often beneficial, especially when interest rates are low.

Anyway, if you insist on balancing the budget, then let's cancel the 2017 tax cuts and maybe some of those old Bush tax cuts, too. We all got on just fine in the 90s with the higher rates.

I agree.

It's not correct to compare to a family budget. I can't print money.

 

[Kwami]

I agree.

It's not correct to compare to a family budget. I can't print money.

Well, you could! You'd have to convince somebody that your money has value, though... Hey, it worked for the Bitcoin guy!

 

[cvjw]

Why are they being "armed" or is that also a "lie"?

The IRS purchased $700,000 worth of ammo in 2022. Google it, it is well documented.

 

[Kwami]

The IRS purchased $700,000 worth of ammo in 2022. Google it, it is well documented.

So? Like almost all government agencies, the IRS has an armed unit of police that they can deploy to enforce certain laws. Those police need ammunition because in this country, all police are armed. So what?

What's the conspiracy here, anyway? Why are people afraid for the IRS now? Did you not pay your taxes?

 

[Southernmiss]

I googled and looked it up.

https://www.verifythis.com/article/...tion/536-0ce9f538-a372-4c26-8013-1ab4e571578c

WHAT WE FOUND
Between March 1 and June 1, 2022, the criminal division of the IRS ordered $696,000 in ammunition, the IRS told VERIFY in an email.

The order was for the IRS Criminal Investigation (IRS-CI) division, which is a federal law enforcement agency that conducts criminal investigations including tax violations, money laundering, cyber crimes, and organized crime involving drugs and gangs. There are more than 2,000 sworn special agents in the division.

“Many of these cases are typically worked in conjunction with other state and federal law enforcement agencies. IRS-CI special agents have been carrying firearms throughout the more than 100-year history of the agency, and have found themselves dealing with some of the most dangerous criminals,” an IRS spokesperson.

In 2018, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) published a report on what the IRS spent on firearms and ammunition from 2010 through 2017. The data starts on page 75 of the report.

From 2010 through 2017, the IRS has spent an average of $675,000 on ammunition a year, the report shows. During that time, the IRS spent the most in 2011, with $1,100,000 in spending.

Government Accountability Office
Credit: Government Accountability Office
Internal Revenue Service ammunition data from a Government Accountability Office report released in 2018.

In comparison, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, which is responsible for conducting investigations of misconduct or fraud within the IRS, spent an average of $250,625 a year on ammunition from 2010 through 2017.

The U.S. Marshals Service spent an average of nearly $3.2 million annually on ammunition during that same time period.

The GAO told VERIFY there is no more recent data available on the IRS annual spending.

So, we can confirm the IRS did buy nearly $700,000 in ammunition between March 1 and June 1, but it is to arm their criminal division and is not a new trend.

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[cvjw]

So? Like almost all government agencies, the IRS has an armed unit of police that they can deploy to enforce certain laws. Those police need ammunition because in this country, all police are armed. So what?

What's the conspiracy here, anyway? Why are people afraid for the IRS now? Did you not pay your taxes?

I pay my taxes and it is an insane amount. Why do you care that I pointed out how much the IRS spent in ammo? Don’t want anyone knowing how much ammo and guns they are stockpiling?

 

[Kwami]

I pay my taxes and it is an insane amount. Why do you care that I pointed out how much the IRS spent in ammo? Don’t want anyone knowing how much ammo and guns they are stockpiling?

They spent an average of $675,000 per year on ammunition between 2010 and 2017. So, $700,000 is pretty typical. I don't know why you think they're stockpiling any more than usual. Seriously, I don't get this conspiracy. It doesn't even kind of sort of slightly make any sense.

I mean, are you upset when your local police buy ammo? Or the FBI? Or the Secret Service? Or ICE? Or the Smithsonian's Office of Protective Services?

They're all coming to get you!

 

[john7994]

I pay my taxes and it is an insane amount. Why do you care that I pointed out how much the IRS spent in ammo? Don’t want anyone knowing how much ammo and guns they are stockpiling?

Simple math suggests that $700,000 for 2,000 agents is about $350 per agent annually - which isn't exactly "stockpiling".
Conversely - $700,000 for the mythical 87,000 agents would make it $8 of ammo per agent - so unless they are going to Barney Fife it with one bullet in the gun - not sure what they are going to do with that "stockpile" ...

Considering, the IRS requires bi-annual proficiency training in (non-consecutive) quarters - not to mention new hire training programs - this is a pretty small amount for the existing agent pool of 2,000.