Deciding between Copper Creek or Saratoga

[intamin]

You're all making convincing arguments for SSR. And in 31 years from now when the contract expires, I'm sure the cost of ownership will barely phase me.
What are the lowest price per point of SSR going for right now?

Someone set a record recently and bought SSR for 68 per point on a loaded contract.. the norm right now is probably mid 80s to mid 90s though. IMO you really can't go wrong with either CCV or SSR for SAP. You can either have a large amount of points for a shorter amount of time (not like 30 years is really even short) or a smaller amount of points for a longer period of time with a desirable home resort booking period. If you don't plan to book more than 7 months out then it doesn't matter.

 

[RoseGold]

Someone set a record recently and bought SSR for 68 per point on a loaded contract.. the norm right now is probably mid 80s to mid 90s though.

I bought in 2019 in the 90s and was thrilled. This is fantastic pricing.

 

[Bmramaut]

I have an unorthodox plan. Hear me out. As a local, you don't care about the AP discount or the 10% on dining. BUT, as a local, the perk like MM might actually mean something to you, and you could plan to go to HS on a Weds night. You could also use the future resorts last minute, which might matter as more and more people get locked out of RIV3 or whatever. So, blue card and future resorts might matter. Heck, as a local you might care about the paid wine tastings or photo ops or whatever they do in the future. (Longer discussion here: https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-newbie-availability-direct-vs-resale.3883760/)

If you value Blue Card, I would probably want Poly2, which I think is the absolute best location and a new build. But, likely resale restricted. You buy it, you marry it. DLT will likely also be resale restricted, but there won't be more of those, so who cares. It took Disney decades to get this project through, there won't be another one soon. It should hold resale much better, which I like to keep options open. Combine DLT opening in a few months with the crazy economy right now, and it might open low. I think there's an argument to buy DLT, even if you never go to DL. You'd be blue card with points to use anywhere. You change your mind, you sell and buy SSR or RIV3 or whatever. Or, heck, you rent out your DL bookings, keep your Blue Card, and book your MM night with your resale SSR. DL is a very different offering than WDW, which are just going to keep coming. And, you could do this whole plan backwards buying SSR now and getting existing member discount at DLT.

Of course, cheapest plan is SSR, make do with what you get. Can't argue with cheap, and SSR is it, especially at current pricing. If you believe having cash right now makes money, SSR will flip any of that math with cheaper buy-in. That's my plan, and there's nothing wrong with it. I've never had to stay at OKW or SSR. My secondary choice for SAP would be BLT or CCV. I think BLT has a long way to run. But these are all so close mathematically that a good contract can flip the math on any of the usual suspects. I don't even like WL, and I've seen quite a few CCV that turned my head. Heck, I think there's even an argument to roll the dice on Poly1 in case they're the same association, which I think is unlikely. Between these choices is a fine distinction. I do think SSR is easiest to sell in the future because of the buy-in.

This may be obvious but what is RIV3?

 

[Bmramaut]

I have an unorthodox plan. Hear me out. As a local, you don't care about the AP discount or the 10% on dining. BUT, as a local, the perk like MM might actually mean something to you, and you could plan to go to HS on a Weds night. You could also use the future resorts last minute, which might matter as more and more people get locked out of RIV3 or whatever. So, blue card and future resorts might matter. Heck, as a local you might care about the paid wine tastings or photo ops or whatever they do in the future. (Longer discussion here: https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-newbie-availability-direct-vs-resale.3883760/)

If you value Blue Card, I would probably want Poly2, which I think is the absolute best location and a new build. But, likely resale restricted. You buy it, you marry it. DLT will likely also be resale restricted, but there won't be more of those, so who cares. It took Disney decades to get this project through, there won't be another one soon. It should hold resale much better, which I like to keep options open. Combine DLT opening in a few months with the crazy economy right now, and it might open low. I think there's an argument to buy DLT, even if you never go to DL. You'd be blue card with points to use anywhere. You change your mind, you sell and buy SSR or RIV3 or whatever. Or, heck, you rent out your DL bookings, keep your Blue Card, and book your MM night with your resale SSR. DL is a very different offering than WDW, which are just going to keep coming. And, you could do this whole plan backwards buying SSR now and getting existing member discount at DLT.

Of course, cheapest plan is SSR, make do with what you get. Can't argue with cheap, and SSR is it, especially at current pricing. If you believe having cash right now makes money, SSR will flip any of that math with cheaper buy-in. That's my plan, and there's nothing wrong with it. I've never had to stay at OKW or SSR. My secondary choice for SAP would be BLT or CCV. I think BLT has a long way to run. But these are all so close mathematically that a good contract can flip the math on any of the usual suspects. I don't even like WL, and I've seen quite a few CCV that turned my head. Heck, I think there's even an argument to roll the dice on Poly1 in case they're the same association, which I think is unlikely. Between these choices is a fine distinction. I do think SSR is easiest to sell in the future because of the buy-in.

Also this argument for DLT was so good.

 

[RoseGold]

This may be obvious but what is RIV3?

RIV3 is whatever the future resort is going to be, and they will keep coming. I don't argue for direct often, but when I do, I mean it.

 

[PBandJFamwich]

RIV3 is whatever the future resort is going to be, and they will keep coming. I don't argue for direct often, but when I do, I mean it.

You are adding more to my unreasonable desire to purchase DLT as our first contract even though my brain says resale SSR and my heart says resale AUL (my brain and heart would be so happy to find the elusive Aulani Subsidized contract ). We will likely be using points to stay at AKV/SSR/OKW so not too concerned about the home resort booking window for WDW trips. It would be nice if a California trip could be an option for us in addition to Florida and Hawaii.

 

[RoseGold]

You are adding more to my unreasonable desire to purchase DLT as our first contract even though my brain says resale SSR and my heart says resale AUL (my brain and heart would be so happy to find the elusive Aulani Subsidized contract ). We will likely be using points to stay at AKV/SSR/OKW so not too concerned about the home resort booking window for WDW trips. It would be nice if a California trip could be an option for us in addition to Florida and Hawaii.

Buying Aulani subsidized is the opposite of buying DLT in my view. Disney is holding millions of points of Aulani, and maybe always will be. DLT took decades, and there won't be more points. Like VGC. Aulani is the last thing I would pick if I plan to sell. All it takes is a dues swing to take Aulani completely out of SAP range, and even subsidizing can't stop that. There's a lot of unpredictable costs that we call dues, like property taxes and maintaining beachfront properties. If Vero can waterlog on the kinds of costs it has taken on, in Disney's backyard, so can Aulani.

Most people shouldn't buy DVC at all, and even less should buy direct. But if you're buying direct, DLT seems like a pretty good pick to me. If you're staying at AK/SSR/OKW, I don't see why you would even want to buy direct. You think RIV's chart is scary, wait until you see DLT's chart.

 

[I Run Long]

I'm trying to decide between getting a resale contract at Copper Creek or Saratoga. I'm just looking for the best deal and don't care where I stay. Thinking 200 points will be good for me. I'm a local so I probably won't have many 7-11 month-out planned trips.

If you want a studio and aren't planning 11 months out, or are only looking at last minute trips - then I would choose SSR. You won't find any studios available at CCV if you aren't booking at 11 months.

 

[White Sox]

If you want a studio and aren't planning 11 months out, or are only looking at last minute trips - then I would choose SSR. You won't find any studios available at CCV if you aren't booking at 11 months.

I've started putting in offers for SSR. I think it makes the most sense for me now after reading all the comments.

 

[PBandJFamwich]

Buying Aulani subsidized is the opposite of buying DLT in my view. Disney is holding millions of points of Aulani, and maybe always will be. DLT took decades, and there won't be more points. Like VGC. Aulani is the last thing I would pick if I plan to sell. All it takes is a dues swing to take Aulani completely out of SAP range, and even subsidizing can't stop that. There's a lot of unpredictable costs that we call dues, like property taxes and maintaining beachfront properties. If Vero can waterlog on the kinds of costs it has taken on, in Disney's backyard, so can Aulani.

Most people shouldn't buy DVC at all, and even less should buy direct. But if you're buying direct, DLT seems like a pretty good pick to me. If you're staying at AK/SSR/OKW, I don't see why you would even want to buy direct. You think RIV's chart is scary, wait until you see DLT's chart.

Oh I know they are two polar opposites! Also we will probably never find a subsidized Aulani. Where we buy ultimately depends on which approach we end up taking: get in cheap now (SSR) and upgrade later or go all in now (Direct VGF or DLT)?

We are in our early 30s so cheaper now is appealing but so is a long contract. Making the price per point jump from resale SSR/AKV/AUL to resale VGF/CCV/PVB tempts us to just jump further to get VGF/DLT direct so we aren’t restricted and have a blue card.

While we like RIV, the restrictions and their impact on resale value make us hesitant to buy there. DLT seems a little bit easier to justify value wise since it’s only the 2nd California property; it also is more aesthetically appealing to us. VGF is likely going to be the most economical of the direct options but the resort really isn’t our style.

If we were buying based just on the current resorts style/theming we would rank them Aulani, AKV, Poly, RIV, CCV/BRV, VGC, BLT, BCV, BWV/VGF, SSR/OKW.

It would be great to be able to visit California every few years or do a couple days before an Aulani trip. Our first reason to buy is being able to take an Aulani trip every 3-5 years at a reasonable cost (we did 2 cash nights this spring and LOVED it). Having nicer accommodations at WDW on our more frequent trips would be an added bonus (we didn’t mind our value resort stay). More affordable on property Disneyland trips would kind of pair nicely with our first reason.

 

[intamin]

If we were buying based just on the current resorts style/theming we would rank them Aulani, AKV, Poly, RIV, CCV/BRV, VGC, BLT, BCV, BWV/VGF, SSR/OKW.

I'd say you and I have similar tastes since I plan to own your top 5 resorts with the exception of CCV/BRV unless something I'm hit with addonitis after I obtain Poly, more RIV and VGC so 2 more to go. CCV would probably be the next one to add but at the same time I don't like redundancy with Poly and CCV both being MK resorts. We're also roughly the same age so personally I see a lot of value in the resorts with longer contracts left.

The only thing we differ on is I think I'm going to end up getting VGC over VDH, it'd be nice to have more direct points and the longer contract length.. but ugh VGC's location just can't be beat walking straight into DCA and the theming is amazing. Fortunately if I don't end up buying VGC or VDH it's not a big deal since I have family who lives 15 minutes from the park but I'd like to keep the option open to maybe stay at VGC and visit home during the holidays.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Buying Aulani subsidized is the opposite of buying DLT in my view. Disney is holding millions of points of Aulani, and maybe always will be. DLT took decades, and there won't be more points. Like VGC. Aulani is the last thing I would pick if I plan to sell. All it takes is a dues swing to take Aulani completely out of SAP range, and even subsidizing can't stop that. There's a lot of unpredictable costs that we call dues, like property taxes and maintaining beachfront properties. If Vero can waterlog on the kinds of costs it has taken on, in Disney's backyard, so can Aulani.

Most people shouldn't buy DVC at all, and even less should buy direct. But if you're buying direct, DLT seems like a pretty good pick to me. If you're staying at AK/SSR/OKW, I don't see why you would even want to buy direct. You think RIV's chart is scary, wait until you see DLT's chart.

The thing is, I think the general consensus is that Aulani is about 80-85% sold. I don’t think Disney is in any rush to sell out because we certainly haven’t seen a fire sale lately, and they make a ton of money on cash rooms. Still, I truly don’t think it will never sell out. Might bet is within 2-3 years. If not, no big deal, but I bet you didn’t think APs were coming back any time soon either!

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

The thing is, I think the general consensus is that Aulani is about 80-85% sold. I don’t think Disney is in any rush to sell out because we certainly haven’t seen a fire sale lately, and they make a ton of money on cash rooms. Still, I truly don’t think it will never sell out. Might bet is within 2-3 years. If not, no big deal, but I bet you didn’t think APs were coming back any time soon either!

Aulani sales are public record and it is less than 70% sold, and Disney expects to only sell about 2.8% of its points this year. It’s going to be the 2030s at best for a sellout, unless Disney changes strategy.

 

[PBandJFamwich]

I'd say you and I have similar tastes since I plan to own your top 5 resorts with the exception of CCV/BRV unless something I'm hit with addonitis after I obtain Poly, more RIV and VGC so 2 more to go. CCV would probably be the next one to add but at the same time I don't like redundancy with Poly and CCV both being MK resorts. We're also roughly the same age so personally I see a lot of value in the resorts with longer contracts left.

The only thing we differ on is I think I'm going to end up getting VGC over VDH, it'd be nice to have more direct points and the longer contract length.. but ugh VGC's location just can't be beat walking straight into DCA and the theming is amazing. Fortunately if I don't end up buying VGC or VDH it's not a big deal since I have family who lives 15 minutes from the park but I'd like to keep the option open to maybe stay at VGC and visit home during the holidays.

Jealous of your family near DL. My husband was actually born in Torrence but doesn’t have any family there. He hasn’t been back since he was 3; we would love to take his mom and brother for a trip to SoCal to see it all and visit Disneyland. I loved Toontown when I went to WDW in 1997 so I really want to take our daughter there in addition to everything at DCA.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Aulani sales are public record and it is less than 70% sold, and Disney expects to only sell about 2.8% of its points this year. It’s going to be the 2030s at best for a sellout, unless Disney changes strategy.

Ok, so it’s 70% sold. As I mentioned, with the money derived from cash room sales, I’m not sure Disney cares. As an owner, frankly, I don’t either. As room rates go up, as they always will, my points will continue to represent, for me, a bargain. But it will eventually sell out. And who knows, it might be sooner than the 2030s if they change strategy.

 

[sethschroeder]

I'm just looking for the best deal and don't care where I stay.

Except where you stay directly relates to that. Example you are not getting BLT Standard Studios likely if you don't own there.

So now when you stay at BLT you are paying like a 30% premium in points for essentially the same room. In comparison if you pay a little more upfront by like 5% or 10% you end up saving 30% every year after that.

Too many variables but where you will stay does play a part in it unless you are saying you don't care because you purposely will be booking at 7 months at a million different resorts.

 

[intamin]

Except where you stay directly relates to that. Example you are not getting BLT Standard Studios likely if you don't own there.

So now when you stay at BLT you are paying like a 30% premium in points for essentially the same room. In comparison if you pay a little more upfront by like 5% or 10% you end up saving 30% every year after that.

Too many variables but where you will stay does play a part in it unless you are saying you don't care because you purposely will be booking at 7 months at a million different resorts.

This is a great point and probably something that doesn't get brought up enough. Most people base the value on how much per point the resort costs and don't look as much at what the priority booking value brings. If you're planning to book like the preferred/ocean/theme park views anyways it probably doesn't matter as much. However, the difference between a standard view studio and a preferred view can be a 20-30% difference in price which is huge and can negate a lot of those savings by making you burn through more points while also not allowing you to book and guarantee your trip until 7 months out.

 

[lilsonicfan]

I agree that it's worth considering if you'd rather be more miserly with your points by booking standard views in studios, than take what you get at the 7 month mark and have to pay more because the cheaper rooms are gone. But the counter to that is that someone who truly doesn't care where they stay can probably still snag a studio/standard view at OKW or SSR. It probably all depends on what is meant by "I don't care where I stay". For me, I'm basically treating my DVC purchase as a set of fun bonus vacations to WDW or Aulani. Some studios don't work for my family anyway, so I'm okay booking 1BR or even 2BR if needed, at the less desirable resorts - we always rent a car anyway.

 

[intamin]

I agree that it's worth considering if you'd rather be more miserly with your points by booking standard views in studios, than take what you get at the 7 month mark and have to pay more because the cheaper rooms are gone. But the counter to that is that someone who truly doesn't care where they stay can probably still snag a studio/standard view at OKW or SSR. It probably all depends on what is meant by "I don't care where I stay". For me, I'm basically treating my DVC purchase as a set of fun bonus vacations to WDW or Aulani. Some studios don't work for my family anyway, so I'm okay booking 1BR or even 2BR if needed, at the less desirable resorts - we always rent a car anyway.

True, if it really doesn’t matter then it’s fine; however, it may become difficult to string together some nights but at the very least you’d have SSR as your backup. And so the age old adage goes, buy where you want to stay.

 

[sethschroeder]

But the counter to that is that someone who truly doesn't care where they stay can probably still snag a studio/standard view at OKW or SSR.

Personally I don't put SSR and OKW in the same category as most of the other resorts. You might pay less but they are worth less.

When you stay at VGF standard vs lake view you are saving way more than the small downgrade the view is.