Desperately need parental advice!

[LisaR]

Well the "advice" has run the gamut from throwing her out for not following our rules to she is an adult and we are too controlling with our expectations.

To me this is conflicting advice and not very helpful, honestly.


I don't want her to move out and end up quitting college, because without our support or a car, that will happen. She will not get into this program again, it's not something where you can skip a semester and just go back.

I don't want her "living with the consequences", if a decision made now is going to negativel impact her for the rest of her life.

I don't want to damage our relationship irreparably.

I don't want her dating this guy, but by telling her so she will dig in her heels and sneak around or move out. BUT, apparently, I shouldn't be telling her not to date him, as she is and adult.

So what "rules" should we have? Where do we cross the line from parenting to controlling?

Do you want advice or do you want all of us to tell you exactly what to do? You're the parent; you know your daughter best. Only you know what the situation is really like in your household. We can't be certain based on little snippets of information you have given. I don't think anyone who has commented so far has had a daughter in your DD's situation. The best we can do is offer up what we MIGHT do. These opinions will vary. Parenting can be difficult; very difficult! We can ask for advice from friends, family, and strangers, but in the end, we need to suck it up, be the parent and do what our gut tells us is the best thing for a difficult situation. It would be really nice if there was one right answer, a crystal ball, or a magic wand, but you know that isn't how it works. You've been given a lot of good advice. Now it is up to you to decide which way you think will work best for your family.

 

[aaarcher86]

So what would you do? Do you think we are too permissive? or are you in the camp of we are too strict? When she doesn't live up to the expectations we all agreed upon, or doesn't have the money needed do we tell her to get out? Argue over it? Have another "adult" conversation? What? Specifically, what? eta: she pays for her own phone, and the car is ours, we bought it to replace an old junker which would not have been good for the distances she needs to travel; it is not her car.

You're asking for really detailed advice from people that don't know you - we can only go off of what you post.

Personally, the biggest issue is her attitude and disrespect. It wouldn't have gotten this far with me, but since it has, I'd sit her down and talk to her. If she can't be polite and respectful, she's gone. Period. You don't get to do and act anyway you like when you live under someone else's roof.

I'd give her a gas card with $50 or whatever you think the gas would be to get to and from school and work each week and she can pay for the rest. If she was skipping work to see him, I'd stop with the gas entirely.

Unless we agreed prior, curfew would be 2a only because she doesn't sound very mature. If I thought she was more responsible she probably wouldn't have one.

I'd pay for school as long as her grades are reasonable.

I think the boyfriend is the least of your worries after the other posts. But he wouldn't be coming into my house for awhile just based off of your description. That's not the type of person I surround myself with.

But I'd absolutely follow through with asking her to leave. She can come back if she needs to, but the rules will be the same. Sometimes nothing helps nit a swift kick in the *** and a hard dose if reality. Worked for me. I do think she'd run right to her boyfriend, but I think the fantasy would wear off pretty quick for both of them.

 

[Vernie822]

I think the above posters who suggest keeping the boyfriend topic separate from the living at home/respecting her parents issue. I would hate to see her move out and have her grades suffer. BUT if she's living under your roof and has it that good, I would lay down some ground rules.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, you have gotten a lot of good advice.
And, most all of it makes sense to me, anyhow.

Yet your posts become very defensive, and seem to argue that you "CAN'T" do what you need to do in this situation.

You don't seem to be hearing what you don't want to hear.

You, yourself are the one who is ambiguous here.
You are sending the very clear message that you will do whatever your daughter wants and will provide whatever she wants... ongoing... to a 20 year old adult. NO limits.

YOUR DAUGHTER KNOWS THIS VERY WELL AND IS PLAYING YOU LIKE A FIDDLE.

But you seem to think that you can limit and control this adult when it comes to personal behaviors.

And you continue to send very clear underlying messages that you still interact with and consider this young adult to be a 'child', whom you think you should be able to control.

Well, unfortunately, this isn't how it works.

You are NOT controlling the things that you actually CAN and should. (financial, etc.) You have been letting your daughter call all the shots and you give her what she wants.

And you are continuing to TRY to control things that you shouldn't. (her intimate relationships)

The off kilter adult/parent-child dynamic here seems very obvious.

And, if I am figuring out here that you have younger children in your home. I am with the others. This is even worse, because the road is being paved for them here. Kids learn the fastest by example.

OP, If you are not just here creating drama.
If you really are not understanding this.
Then, once again, I will be with those who are recommending some kind of counseling. Whether your daughter goes or not. You need counseling here to figure out the basics. How to navigate this situation with your teen and young adults.

PS: I will say again, even more strongly than ever. I would NOT be so focused on this program. It is NOT the answer here. She could put you in the poorhouse to complete this program, and then it all goes down the drain because of all of these personal issues that she has. Or, even worse, she will complete the program, actually find employment, only for every bit of this to be 'taken' by some loser boyfriend. JUST LIKE ALL OF THAT GAS MONEY. Or she could lose any job that she finds, due to illegal activities, drugs, etc... which could be a part of her life with these kinds of men.

Perhaps you need to get past this program, and see the bigger picture here.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

OP, I think you were hoping someone on here would give you a magical solution that would fix it all. Unfortunately there isn't one. Your daughter wants to have it all - mom and dad supporting her so she can go to school to get a good job, and still date the bad boy and use any current income for fun stuff.

She can't have it all her way. There are consequences for her decisions. The same goes for you as her parents. There is no magic pill that is going to make her drop the guy, continue excelling at school, pay her own bills, and have a good family relationship. You are going to have to make some hard choices too. You've gotten some good ideas, but you have to decide what is best for your family. Don't forget that whatever you do impacts the whole family, and can impact your future relationships with your other kids as well.

 

[NHdisneylover]

This is a difficult age, and it's not usual for there to be some ambiguity around the parent-adult child relationship.

I think you should try to separate out the problem into her relationship with you as an adult child living rent-free in your house, and her personal relationship with the creep.

You can reasonably expect to have her follow your rules while she lives in your house about how she treats you and your family and what contributions to the welfare of the home she is expected to make. You can set rules about what behavior is allowed (i.e. no drugs in the house) or who she is allowed to have visit. You can present these rules in a pretty reasonable way, as there are other members of the family who are impacted by how she behaves, and your finances are not infinite.

You cannot reasonably expect to control her relationship outside of your home with the creep. Trying to do that is going to do nothing but drive a wedge between you. She is a legal adult and can associate with anyone she likes, as unsavory as they might be.

I can understand that you don't want to see her throw away this great opportunity. But at the end of the day, it's her life and her decision to make. If she can't prioritize the education and the career opportunity over the negative influences of this guy, you can't do that for her.

I think the consensus is that you're being too controlling with the boyfriend issue. She's an adult and she should be allowed to date/marry/sleep with whoever she wants.

However, you do have the right to control how she treats the members of your family and her contribution(s) to the household. You wouldn't allow your husband or another adult who was living there or a 6 year old to treat you with disrespect, not talk to you, not contribute to the household - so why her?

These two posts are perfect and to the point

 

[RitaZ.]

Well the "advice" has run the gamut from throwing her out for not following our rules to she is an adult and we are too controlling with our expectations.

To me this is conflicting advice and not very helpful, honestly.


I don't want her to move out and end up quitting college, because without our support or a car, that will happen. She will not get into this program again, it's not something where you can skip a semester and just go back.

I don't want her "living with the consequences", if a decision made now is going to negativel impact her for the rest of her life.

I don't want to damage our relationship irreparably.

I don't want her dating this guy, but by telling her so she will dig in her heels and sneak around or move out. BUT, apparently, I shouldn't be telling her not to date him, as she is and adult.

So what "rules" should we have? Where do we cross the line from parenting to controlling?

OP, how could the advice not differ from poster to poster? Some posters have given you advice based on their own personal experience (from when they were your daughter's age to parents that have experienced difficulty with their older teens/young adults) to those telling you what they would do in your situation. It's up to you to decide what you want to do with the advice you asked for.

It sounds like you really don't know how you're going to proceed and that's the reason I suggested you and your husband speak to a counselor for an impartial opinion and to help you formulate a plan. You don't have to make a life-long commitment to therapy, just a few sessions to help you through this rough spot. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[Colleen27]

I don't know if I am being too controlling or too lenient? And I have to get DH to agree with it.

Some of both, I think, and if your DH is anything like mine it won't be easy to get everyone on the same page.

She's an adult. You can set rules for your home but it isn't reasonable to expect to control her behaviour when she isn't at home. You need to focus on clear house rules and clear consequences for violating them, but make sure the rules are suited to an adult, not a child, and the consequences are things both you and your husband are prepared to follow through on. In other words, don't micromanage and don't leap to telling her to move out or ending your contributions to her schooling over "little things" (in the big picture sense).

Setting limits on the number of times she can see her boyfriend, establishing a curfew and a no-overnights rule, demanding she break up with him, etc. is all treating her like a child. Think instead about setting expectations for her financial contributions to her car and schooling, requiring continued good performance as a condition of ongoing financial support, and setting a common courtesy curfew/overnights policy (ie call by XX if you aren't going to be home, be in the house by YY so you aren't waking the younger kids/working adults). You can't really expect adult responsibility while continuing to treat her as a child.

 

[bluezee]

Make sure your daughter is on birth control. I wouldn't put it past the BF to knock her up and latch on for a meal ticket.

 

[luvsJack]

I agree about the birth control.
I really do get your panic about the program. If she messes up, she won't get a second chance in the program. Just know that it won't be the end of the world. If you get past that feeling of urgency about the program, I think you will be able to look at everything else more objectively.

Will the clinicals be done locally? Our students travel around. She is going to have to learn some responsibility before she starts clinicals. They have to be there long hours and won't always love their clinical site.

 

[Bluestars]

I think the biggest issue might be boundaries. She knows that she is dependent on you, but resents you using it to try to control her.

You have every right to be treated with respect in your own home. At the same time, it goes both ways. The yelling is a sign that it's out of control. Rarely do people listen when somebody is yelling at them.

I think you could make family counseling a condition of her living with you. Maybe suggest 5 sessions so that you, your husband, and your daughter can work on rebuilding a relationship. Although I think it would take more than 5, I think getting in there for any amount of sessions would be a good start. I don't think it should be suggested to her in a way that she thinks you are trying to change her, but more of a way that you want to make your family situation work.

She is an adult, so I would not try to control what she does outside of the home. If you have met the guy and can't stand him, then you have every right to forbid him from coming into your home. (or if he has a dangerous history and you feel your family would not be safe). But she does have a right to legally do things outside of the home and make her own decisions.

If I were you, I would find a family counselor as soon as possible. Even if she will not go, the counselor can help you and your husband figure out how to deal with these issues.

What I would not want to do is react in a way that makes her run to this guy. I think setting down some ground rules for your house is reasonable. I think having her pay a percentage of her checks for room and board is reasonable. Sitting down with her and discussing these things like adults is probably the only way you will get anywhere.

Good luck. Sometimes things get so overwhelming that it helps to have a knowledgable person like a counselor guide us. I will never forget what one counselor told me. Be consistent with discipline, but do it with love.

Good luck to you. Parenting is the hardest job there is, in my opinion.

 

[tnmt]

This is a heartbreaking thread. I hope this turns around for you guys and she comes to her senses.

 

[tcufrog]

Here's the problem. You want her to grow up to be a responsible and mature adult but you aren't giving her the tools to learn how to do so. She's not a teenager anymore but you are still treating her like one. Since she doesn't have any agency and hasn't learned how to behave like a responsible adult she's throwing childish tantrums and doing what she can to assert her independence.

When I graduated from college I was lucky enough to earn scholarships and applied for financial aid so that I could stay on campus. My first summer after college I moved back home and my parents made the mistake of treating me like I was in high school again. I chafed at the restrictions since I felt like they meant that they didn't trust or respect me. As a result, every summer after that I found summer internships or summer jobs that enabled me not to have to return home for the summer.

You and your husband need to talk about what skills and knowledge your daughter needs to gain before she can stand on her own two feet. Obviously y'all haven't taught her how to manage money. She needs the chance to fail in that arena before she can become more responsible. She also needs to learn how manage her own time. Unless you start treating her more like an adult with the rights and responsibilities that this entails she won't improve. Treating her like a teenager isn't doing her any favors.

 

[tomthebarncat]

She lies, sneaks around, is disrespectful, smokes pots and drinks under age?

Sorry but that kid wouldn't get another dime from me.

I would have absolutely no problem telling her to take her nasty attitude and her crap and get out of my house. I would not tolerate this nonsense nor would I pay for it. I did this kind of stupid stuff and my dad tolerated it for 2 weeks before he changed the locks on the front door and packed my stuff up for me. I went nowhere fast and ended up joining the army, best decision I ever made I grew up and learn to take care of myself. I am sorry that you are experiencing this but it is time for this little bird to leave the nest. She is foolishly spending her and your money supporting a convicted felon, cut your losses and move on. I would also not continue to pay for school, if she really wants it, she can pay for it. Tough love, you bet, but as others said, she is not 5 years old but a grown woman!

 

[NHdisneylover]

Some of both, I think, and if your DH is anything like mine it won't be easy to get everyone on the same page.

She's an adult. You can set rules for your home but it isn't reasonable to expect to control her behaviour when she isn't at home. You need to focus on clear house rules and clear consequences for violating them, but make sure the rules are suited to an adult, not a child, and the consequences are things both you and your husband are prepared to follow through on. In other words, don't micromanage and don't leap to telling her to move out or ending your contributions to her schooling over "little things" (in the big picture sense).

Setting limits on the number of times she can see her boyfriend, establishing a curfew and a no-overnights rule, demanding she break up with him, etc. is all treating her like a child. Think instead about setting expectations for her financial contributions to her car and schooling, requiring continued good performance as a condition of ongoing financial support, and setting a common courtesy curfew/overnights policy (ie call by XX if you aren't going to be home, be in the house by YY so you aren't waking the younger kids/working adults). You can't really expect adult responsibility while continuing to treat her as a child.

This is an excellent post, summed up in the bolded part.

OP--I get the feeling that you are so defensive in your posts and disliking the advice given mostly because people are saying that you have some control here and YOU (and your DH) need to change some things.

You are wanting the situation to be 100% your daughter's fault, for her to be the bad guy, and you want some magic punishment that you can use to force her to see the light and behave as you want her to (tough love not being it because then she might move out or drop out of school--things you do not want).

Reality is that is rarely how life works. There are lots of contributing factors to most situations, this one included. And there is no bad guy and no one person to blame for all of this. And you cannot control a young adult's life choices like you want to.

What you CAN do is control yourselves, and how you relate to your daughter and react to her, the finances you provide (or even if you provide her a home at all), and what you allow to take place in your home. Until you are ready to accept realistic advice that only focuses on what you, in fact, can do, and are ready to accept some responsibility for the situation, things will not get any better for you.

 

[spima3]

Reading through all the conflicting advice, I would probably do the following-

1. For now, let the boyfriend slide. He's still in jail and may be much more shiny and new because he's not around everyday. He's an adult and she's an adult. If she wants to see him, send money to his account, see his mom, etc she can. What I would do, honestly, is just ignore the whole situation. Make it completely clear immediately that you and your family want NOTHING to do with the boyfriend and that it won't be a discussion further. She can do what she wants on her own time, but you won't be supporting the relationship and won't be talking about him either.

2. Car. I think it is very reasonable to expect her to pay for gas/insurance etc for YOUR car. I would set a reasonable amount every month and make her pay it. If her income is that varied then she should know if she is having a good month to put some money aside for insurance for next month in case its a bad month. Once the boyfriend is out, if the personal driving gets out of hand I'd up the amount. But I would take baby steps here and cross that bridge when you come to it.

3. Housing/School. Another cross the bridge if you need it...I would not pay for ANY schooling if she moves out. If you aren't forbidding her to see him and just ignoring the idea of him, there should be no reason she can't live at home and continue her schooling. You are being very generous with what you pay and hopefully she will realize that down the road. If she still wants to move out when he is out, then tough luck. She needs to make her mistakes and learn from them. The path might not be easy, but there will be other opportunities down the road.

Right now, I think your main issues are to baby step her into being an adult. That means letting her make her own decisions about the boyfriend, having her start some financial contributions to the car, and putting her education in her hands.

I think you are kind of running parallel paths right now. She is forging ahead to be an adult, but not knowing what being an adult is because you are hanging on tight and not letting go. Its HARD!!!! I think you have to realize she will make mistakes and you won't (or shouldn't) always fix them. I don't think you have to go HARD CORE yet...but definitely take a few baby steps towards letting her "go". Good luck!

There have been some really good posts, and good advice, but this is very well put, and very helpful, so thank you.

 

[goofy4tink]

I feel your pain....being a parent is the absolutely hardest job in the world. We want only the best for our kids. We want them to succeed and be happy, well adjusted adults. Sometimes, there are bumps along the way.
I am having some of the same type issues you are. My dd just turned 21, this past weekend. She is in college and doing well...we pretty much pay for it, and it's expensive. But, we can muddle through. Dd has a beautiful campus apt/dorm. But where does she spend her time? With her boyfriend and his best friend. They are both nice guys. But...dd has the rest of her life to be a little housewife...and I mean no disrespect here. I am a stay at home wife/mother. Her boyfriend is okay, just not what we want for our dd. He has some issues that have negatively impacted her. Some have asked why we don't just let her live there, in their off campus apt..she is anyway! And we could save a ton of money every year on her room costs! But, we feel she needs to have a dorm room, on campus.
So.....what do we do? Well, as I said, we pretty much have taken the costs of her college and paid them..and will continue to do so next year. She is supposed to do work study and earn her own money. She has yet to do so...she is in her junior year. We told her, when she started school, that we would pick up the expenses of school as long as she maintained good grades (nothing below a C) and did work study. Well...she didn't maintain her grades last semester, and she has yet to do work study. So....she is now responsible for the spring semester costs! We will pay what a state college would cost....about $18,000 a year. We have paid that already, for the fall semester. So, she is now going to have to sit with her father and fill out loan forms after Thanksgiving! I refuse to give her any addtl money. I have paid for her books every single semester...she was supposed to do that.
She also, like your dd, wants to be treated as an adult. Fine. We have laid out the ground rules. She now has to deal with them. She wants to study abroad next year, in London. Well...she's going to need spending money...I am not giving that to her. An adult realizes what needs to be done in order to get the things they want. Want to go to London? Work for it. Pay some of your way.
I am now letting go of the apron strings...hardest thing in the world to do. But, dd is an adult now and must make her own choices...and then live with the consequences. I suggest you do the same. Your dd is either a child or an adult. If she wishes to be treated as an adult, then she must behave as one. And that means Mommy and Daddy stop telling her what to do. Of course, it also means that Mommy and Daddy stop paying the way for her as well. You told her what you would pay as far as school goes..so stick to that. Give her a gas card that will get her to and from school as well as work. Tell her that since she is working, and you have paid for the car and her school, she can pick up the insurance and maintainence on the car! What she does when she is away from you is going to be hard to dictate..so let that go. You just have to hope and pray that the values you gave her growing up will kick in soon.
It almost seems that she is really pushing to be an adult, so is trying to force your hand. So, let her be an adult. I know....it's hard and scary. But, there is only so much you can do for her at this point. She is going to have to grow up and take care of herself. But in no way, shape, or form should you and your dh be handing over money that is going to go to that boyfriend, or his family. Hopefully, she will spend her money on insurance and other car costs...so won't have nearly as much to hand to the felon!

I wish you luck. Try to remain calm and cool. Don't do anything in anger. Just sit and have a conversation with her. Tell her what your expectations are now that she is an 'adult'. For the life of me, I can't figure out why we all want to grow up and be an adult so quickly. i wish I could go back to being that young again, with few worries about money and such. Silly kids!!!

 

[esk]

From this thread, your DD reminds me of the girl from NJ who sued her parents, Rachel Canning? And in the end, she got a restraining order against the boyfriend that she refused to stop seeing.

What would push my buttons would be the sending money to the boyfriend....if she made $7K last year, she should be paying her own insurance and gas.

Not to get all "walked a mile uphill in the snow, etc" on you, but in college I worked 3 jobs and took a full course load because I wanted spending money. I figured it out. My parents did not give me spending money so I needed to find a job, go to said jobs, pay taxes, and maybe not go to the bar because I was out of funds (this was before ATMs).

Bigger concern would be the car being in your name; if she drinks and smokes weed with him and gets into an accident, you are the one liable and who will be sued, not her. Get her off your insurance policy immediately; this greatly reduces your risk (speaking from experience). This means she'll have to pay her own insurance and possibly save some each month to make sure she's got the money for it....another part of being an adult.

As for the behavior issues, my kids are younger so I really can't relate there. But from a liability and financial standpoint, I'd get the car insurance thing changed immediately, which will then force her to be a little more adult with her money, which could (maybe) lead to her prioritizing her time a little better...

 

[Wishing on a star]

Totally agree with the above post.

This is a soon to be 20 year old adult, and the risks and consequences here are very real.

At 20 years old, the days for 'baby steps' are now many years in the past.

 

[robinb]

Totally agree with the above post.

This is a soon to be 20 year old adult, and the risks and consequences here are very real.

At 20 years old, the days for 'baby steps' are now many years in the past.

Not true. There is still time for 'baby steps' since it seems that they were skipped along the way. While children do legally become adults at 18, they are not necessarily responsible adults. Sadly, there is no "Responsibility Fairy" that comes along and sprinkles pixie dust on them in their sleep the night before their 18th birthday.