Disney lowers capacity on low crowd days

[PrincessWithABlaster]

I think you are one-third right. Happy customers are essential. But so are happy shareholders and happy employees. The first is hard to do if either of the latter two are not true. Doing all three? That is what makes for a long term, successful business. And it is very hard to do. Disney has done it far better than most, especially since Iger took over 10 some years ago.


I think you are 100% right on this!

And the mantra used to be take care of customers and employees and you don’t have to worry about the shareholders because they come along for the ride. Disney was expert at that. But today the business conventional wisdom is that shareholder value trumps everything else. It’s a relative new trend. It remains to be seen how well it works in the long term. Clearly it works short term.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

How you got angry, negative (and apparently something about fastpasses) out of that is beyond me.

Back in reality, here's what you actually said back on page 3:
"People constantly think cutback are getting sharper and sharper, and have complained about it non-stop for decades." Then repeated it for emphasis: "nonstop complaining" and "they just complain about cutbacks." You also said that they can't be right, because, WDW "Is not worse."

I was actually the one who posted a trove of postive things DISers said about WDW in years past.

I always enjoy honesty.

 

[ELLH]

Re: Disney staffing predictions being poor


Disney has all the data they need to accurately (or dang near it) predict crowd levels. I don't buy a) they aren't fully aware of what is going on and b) that it takes them some time to "catch up" to these crowd levels. Since it's inception I've thought, if nothing else, FP+ was just a clever way for Disney to more accurately predict crowd levels and then plan accordingly.

From an analytical POV - as someone who culls and analyzes mounds of data for a living - what could be better for Disney than data that indicates times and dates for various ride reservations. That's exactly what they get when you schedule your FP+. They already had hotel reservations but the variable for where guests would be going was still quite large. With the advent of FP+ they know where guests will be and what those guests plan on doing, practically down to the minute (and the << percentage who change their minds won't affect their analysis/reaction).

Obviously, FP+ doesn't capture ALL guests but it certainly is a strong indication of what they can expect. Considering the FP+ reservation windows guests are permitted, Disney has this information months ahead of time. Disney is staffing *in a manner that suits Disney*. Note the asterisks ...Disney is fully aware of what they are doing. I don't buy anyone saying otherwise. I may not agree with/like the result. It may be part of the learning process for Disney ... I'd be willing to concede that. However, these crowd levels and "understaffing" are certainly not an oversight on Disney's part. I'd bet on that.

 

[slpeters]

Back in reality, here's what you actually said back on page 3:
"People constantly think cutback are getting sharper and sharper, and have complained about it non-stop for decades." Then repeated it for emphasis: "nonstop complaining" and "they just complain about cutbacks." You also said that they can't be right, because, WDW "Is not worse."

I was actually the one who posted a trove of postive things DISers said about WDW in years past.

I always enjoy honesty.

I don't know where you got that quote but it's not me. I haven't even been on this board for a year. November 2017 was my first trip ever. I have no idea what people always complain about, not have I ever experienced any cutbacks. I had a great trip. I enjoy honesty too and I think you are honestly confused.

 

[Mome Rath]

Statistics don't work quickly and it is the statistical differences that matter, not a change from day to day or month to month. Disney is anything but stupid, of course they know what they are doing, it is the general public that doesn't because we can't see the data and the changing patterns within proper context. They run experiments all the time, but they take years to see if little changes make a difference or not because statistics demand it. For example, one winter is not enough to observe any potential change. They'll need multiple winters. And they are looking at multiple factors and weighing all of them against each other. Good companies don't think in months, or years, but decades. Since we can only see day to day differences that we claim to experience, we have to trust the direction of the company or not. Some people will, some won't, and that's fine as Disney will gather that data too. When crunching numbers statistically, anecdotes don't matter. Now, we as consumers may not like to think that way, but Disney must think that way so that there will continue to be a Disney long into the future. If a statistically significant portion of Disney consumers stop consuming, Disney will note that too and change again.

 

[micandminforever]

I started going to Disney World the first year they opened and have gone at least once a year since, even went to Disney World on my Honeymoon, and have enjoyed every visit, until last week. I taught school for 30 years so went during the busy times Summer, Christmas break, Spring break ect, so I have gone when a short line in the afternoon was 45 mins and hot. I have retired from teaching have start going "off season" so I have been in shorter lines and cooler weather. I love every trip and started planning my next trip even before leaving the property, but last week I just wanted to leave. Will I be back yes, but last week was not magical. As someone said to get in the park was a chore I have ever seen so few lines open at this time of year, and my last five trips have been in Jan. or Feb. Several times the wait time in standby had posted 20 mins and I waited 45 mins to a hr to get on the ride. That is unacceptable I fell like I need a break. Maybe it is time to visit Sea World and Universal.

 

[yulilin3]

I started going to Disney World the first year they opened and have gone at least once a year since, even went to Disney World on my Honeymoon, and have enjoyed every visit, until last week. I taught school for 30 years so went during the busy times Summer, Christmas break, Spring break ect, so I have gone when a short line in the afternoon was 45 mins and hot. I have retired from teaching have start going "off season" so I have been in shorter lines and cooler weather. I love every trip and started planning my next trip even before leaving the property, but last week I just wanted to leave. Will I be back yes, but last week was not magical. As someone said to get in the park was a chore I have ever seen so few lines open at this time of year, and my last five trips have been in Jan. or Feb. Several times the wait time in standby had posted 20 mins and I waited 45 mins to a hr to get on the ride. That is unacceptable I fell like I need a break. Maybe it is time to visit Sea World and Universal.

I think that is the general consensus "it feels like a chore" to a lot of people.
I have also visited the parks for the past 20 years on an almost weekly basis, have NEVER tired of them and have always found something magical, fun, exciting to experience. I still do but I am a person who loves to people watch and look into everyone's mood. For the last year I see more adults attitudes change from fun to chore, the "I need a vacation from this vacation" is evident in their faces, also the many entitled people who will push,shove,trample over you to get places is on the rise.
There is no one solution to all this. Are the parks understaffed? IMHO yes. Is the training worse? IMHO, yes Are people's attitudes worse? IMHO yes. I still enjoy the parks but I don't have to ride anything if I don't want to.
I've been visiting Sea World and Universal Orlando for the better part of 6 months and you can see the change in people's enjoyment. Most are happy, relaxed, carefree...I went to Universal yesterday to be a part of the Mardi Gras parade (throwing beads was so much fun) and did The Mummy, Men in Black, Transformers, E.T. in less than an hour using their single rider line...of course you can't compare both parks, but Disney and their super smart business practices have created a huge problem that I don't think will be easily solvable.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Now you are going to go and take away all the fun the negative trending posters are having. Some around here couldn't say a nice thing about Disney if they gave them a free Annual Pass. For them, it's always cynical and cold and all about what they can get away with, every day.

I usually see more nuance than that from most posters. They like some things and dislike others, and that is okay.

In this case, the subject kind of tipped us off that this one wasn't going to be all rosy, no? We can always choose to avoid certain threads.

Maybe we read different threads, but I feel I usually learn something from hearing different opinions. Sharing opinions, good and bad, ultimately helps WDW to improve. they should experiment with different ideas, but that doesn't mean every idea is a rocket. Some will be duds.

The sooner they lose (or fix) the duds, the better for everyone, no?

 

[Davey Jones II]

I started going to Disney World the first year they opened and have gone at least once a year since, even went to Disney World on my Honeymoon, and have enjoyed every visit, until last week. I taught school for 30 years so went during the busy times Summer, Christmas break, Spring break ect, so I have gone when a short line in the afternoon was 45 mins and hot. I have retired from teaching have start going "off season" so I have been in shorter lines and cooler weather. I love every trip and started planning my next trip even before leaving the property, but last week I just wanted to leave. Will I be back yes, but last week was not magical. As someone said to get in the park was a chore I have ever seen so few lines open at this time of year, and my last five trips have been in Jan. or Feb. Several times the wait time in standby had posted 20 mins and I waited 45 mins to a hr to get on the ride. That is unacceptable I fell like I need a break. Maybe it is time to visit Sea World and Universal.

It really saddens me when I hear that someone had a disappointing trip, like yours. It looks like Disney underestimated the crowds for last month, or there was understaffing for some other reason. We had a much better experience when we went in late October, and, the few times we weren't happy, Guest Services compensated us. I hope you'll have much better vacations in the future.

 

[lentesta]

Re: Disney staffing predictions being poor


Disney has all the data they need to accurately (or dang near it) predict crowd levels. I don't buy a) they aren't fully aware of what is going on and b) that it takes them some time to "catch up" to these crowd levels. Since it's inception I've thought, if nothing else, FP+ was just a clever way for Disney to more accurately predict crowd levels and then plan accordingly.

From an analytical POV - as someone who culls and analyzes mounds of data for a living - what could be better for Disney than data that indicates times and dates for various ride reservations. That's exactly what they get when you schedule your FP+. They already had hotel reservations but the variable for where guests would be going was still quite large. With the advent of FP+ they know where guests will be and what those guests plan on doing, practically down to the minute (and the << percentage who change their minds won't affect their analysis/reaction).

Obviously, FP+ doesn't capture ALL guests but it certainly is a strong indication of what they can expect. Considering the FP+ reservation windows guests are permitted, Disney has this information months ahead of time. Disney is staffing *in a manner that suits Disney*. Note the asterisks ...Disney is fully aware of what they are doing. I don't buy anyone saying otherwise. I may not agree with/like the result. It may be part of the learning process for Disney ... I'd be willing to concede that. However, these crowd levels and "understaffing" are certainly not an oversight on Disney's part. I'd bet on that.

This.

I'd heard after MM+ rolled out that the way they were going to make back the cost was through more accurate staffing forecasts. It wasn't part of the original business plan, but they figured that capability out very soon after rollout.

The anecdotal stuff I heard was that it was common for there to be 30% under- or over-staffing in a park prior to MM+. In a previous life I had experience in call centers where staffing forecast errors 1/10th that size would get you a rapid unscheduled career change.

 

[SarahC97]

Re: Disney staffing predictions being poor


Disney has all the data they need to accurately (or dang near it) predict crowd levels. I don't buy a) they aren't fully aware of what is going on and b) that it takes them some time to "catch up" to these crowd levels. Since it's inception I've thought, if nothing else, FP+ was just a clever way for Disney to more accurately predict crowd levels and then plan accordingly.

From an analytical POV - as someone who culls and analyzes mounds of data for a living - what could be better for Disney than data that indicates times and dates for various ride reservations. That's exactly what they get when you schedule your FP+. They already had hotel reservations but the variable for where guests would be going was still quite large. With the advent of FP+ they know where guests will be and what those guests plan on doing, practically down to the minute (and the << percentage who change their minds won't affect their analysis/reaction).

Obviously, FP+ doesn't capture ALL guests but it certainly is a strong indication of what they can expect. Considering the FP+ reservation windows guests are permitted, Disney has this information months ahead of time. Disney is staffing *in a manner that suits Disney*. Note the asterisks ...Disney is fully aware of what they are doing. I don't buy anyone saying otherwise. I may not agree with/like the result. It may be part of the learning process for Disney ... I'd be willing to concede that. However, these crowd levels and "understaffing" are certainly not an oversight on Disney's part. I'd bet on that.

YES! You hit the nail on the head.

 

[HydroGuy]

Re: Disney staffing predictions being poor


Disney has all the data they need to accurately (or dang near it) predict crowd levels. I don't buy a) they aren't fully aware of what is going on and b) that it takes them some time to "catch up" to these crowd levels. Since it's inception I've thought, if nothing else, FP+ was just a clever way for Disney to more accurately predict crowd levels and then plan accordingly.

From an analytical POV - as someone who culls and analyzes mounds of data for a living - what could be better for Disney than data that indicates times and dates for various ride reservations. That's exactly what they get when you schedule your FP+. They already had hotel reservations but the variable for where guests would be going was still quite large. With the advent of FP+ they know where guests will be and what those guests plan on doing, practically down to the minute (and the << percentage who change their minds won't affect their analysis/reaction).

Obviously, FP+ doesn't capture ALL guests but it certainly is a strong indication of what they can expect. Considering the FP+ reservation windows guests are permitted, Disney has this information months ahead of time. Disney is staffing *in a manner that suits Disney*. Note the asterisks ...Disney is fully aware of what they are doing. I don't buy anyone saying otherwise. I may not agree with/like the result. It may be part of the learning process for Disney ... I'd be willing to concede that. However, these crowd levels and "understaffing" are certainly not an oversight on Disney's part. I'd bet on that.

This.

I'd heard after MM+ rolled out that the way they were going to make back the cost was through more accurate staffing forecasts. It wasn't part of the original business plan, but they figured that capability out very soon after rollout.

The anecdotal stuff I heard was that it was common for there to be 30% under- or over-staffing in a park prior to MM+. In a previous life I had experience in call centers where staffing forecast errors 1/10th that size would get you a rapid unscheduled career change.

If Disney is really doing this, and I am afraid I agree that they are from what I read here and other places about crowds and staffing, I think it makes complete sense. They are using data to become more efficient.

I am reluctant to agree that it will hurt WDW in the long run. But I am afraid, again, I have to agree with this too.

Somewhere there will be a bottom line for Disney that includes attendance, profit and guest satisfaction (we all know how Disney is prolific with surveys at the parks and by email). That bottom line will dictate their actions. If Disney succeeds in alienating many of their (previous) biggest fans and proponents like some of the PPs in this thread, that will impact many things like word of mouth. And with forums and social media, that will spread like a cancer.

I own two B2B businesses and we have many fervent proponents of our products as a result of decades of hard work. The thought that we were alienating some of them would terrify me. Disney should tread carefully in this area. Very carefully.

 

[HydroGuy]

If Disney is really doing this, and I am afraid I agree that they are from what I read here and other places about crowds and staffing, I think it makes complete sense. They are using data to become more efficient.

I am reluctant to agree that it will hurt WDW in the long run. But I am afraid, again, I have to agree with this too.

Somewhere there will be a bottom line for Disney that includes attendance, profit and guest satisfaction (we all know how Disney is prolific with surveys at the parks and by email). That bottom line will dictate their actions. If Disney succeeds in alienating many of their (previous) biggest fans and proponents like some of the PPs in this thread, that will impact many things like word of mouth. And with forums and social media, that will spread like a cancer.

I own two B2B businesses and we have many fervent proponents of our products as a result of decades of hard work. The thought that we were alienating some of them would terrify me. Disney should tread carefully in this area. Very carefully.

On further thought, other posters here have mentioned Sea World and Universal. My last visit to SW was in San Diego some 12 years. I had my family and four kids. We used to live in San Diego and after we moved away we would still visit SWSD once every two years or so. We kind of alternated between SWSD and DLR for a few years.

On that day two things happened.

1. SW had a newish ride (Atlantis?). We arrived extra early to get in a ride for Atlantis right away. This is quite a challenge with four children and us driving into SW that morning. We got into SW early and got in line. With very poor communication from the SW staff, the ride was not open at park opening. We did not know what was going on until we had burned 30-45 minutes of precious morning time. Yes, same thing happens at Disney sometimes. But they usually do a better job of communication and they act more like they care than SW did.

2. We had four hungry kids at lunch. We had brought some food with us we wanted to bring into the parks but they would not let us bring it in. I cannot remember details but it is the type that Disney has regularly allowed. So I had to run back to the car that morning to return our food.

If someone is not going to let you bring food in, they better have plentiful options to buy it. Even at inflated theme park prices. SWSD did not. Every option we checked at lunch time had a queue that was 45-60 minutes long. Every one. So we snacked on junk food and waited for lunch until 2PM to wait for the queue to decrease. It never did. So we got in line and waited for an hour to get basic hamburger and hot dog type food. By the time we ate at 3PM our kids were miserably hungry.

I reported this to some guest services place as a way to improve their park and it was clear they did not care. That was the last time we visited SW.

On top of all this, SW has had other business challenges with how they treat captive wild life. That their business has suffered in recent years I myself would point to the market punishing a company for poor customer service and how they staff their parks. Among other things. I do not feel badly for them at all and am kind of glad the company is suffering.

Disney has a much stronger brand than Sea World. But I wonder if the market will punish Disney sometime soon. I am not a big fan of the Universal theme parks, but I am so very glad they exist. And that they are growing. A lot faster than Disney. See http://www.teaconnect.org/images/files/TEA_235_103719_170601.pdf

Of course people have to not just complain about the issues but start voting with their feet and wallets. Otherwise the complaints are meaningless. Time will tell with Disney. All of us read this kind of this kind of thing regularly about guests who threaten to stop visiting Disney resorts. And usually I roll my eyes. But this feels different. The numbers will tell. I do not think Disney will or should change anything until folks vote with their feet and wallets.

 

[CeruleanMoon]

It sounds like this may have been some kind of experiment on Disney's part with adjusting staffing/ride capacity starting with the near year. I really hope this trend doesn't continue. It could wreak havok on how much people can expect to accomplish in their (frequently) limited time and could mess up all those crowd calendar sites until they catch up to new methods of calculating.

So, we are into Feb now...how do things look in the parks? Are people finding this January trend of increased crowds and lines continuing? Or have things gotten better? Are the crowd predictions matching with reality or are they still off?

 

[hllb]

It sounds like this may have been some kind of experiment on Disney's part with adjusting staffing/ride capacity starting with the near year. I really hope this trend doesn't continue. It could wreak havok on how much people can expect to accomplish in their (frequently) limited time and could mess up all those crowd calendar sites until they catch up to new methods of calculating.

So, we are into Feb now...how do things look in the parks? Are people finding this January trend of increased crowds and lines continuing? Or have things gotten better? Are the crowd predictions matching with reality or are they still off?

We were there 1/27 to 2/3 and we saw none of the things people are talking about on this thread. Nothing was running at half capacity (we RDed every day) unless broken down. Wait times, with a good touring plan and FPs were 15 minutes or less for nearly everything we did (obviously had FPs for FoP and 7DMT). The parks were significantly busier than is typical for that time of year.

 

[jeffg4]

Re: Disney staffing predictions being poor


Disney has all the data they need to accurately (or dang near it) predict crowd levels. I don't buy a) they aren't fully aware of what is going on and b) that it takes them some time to "catch up" to these crowd levels. Since it's inception I've thought, if nothing else, FP+ was just a clever way for Disney to more accurately predict crowd levels and then plan accordingly.

From an analytical POV - as someone who culls and analyzes mounds of data for a living - what could be better for Disney than data that indicates times and dates for various ride reservations. That's exactly what they get when you schedule your FP+. They already had hotel reservations but the variable for where guests would be going was still quite large. With the advent of FP+ they know where guests will be and what those guests plan on doing, practically down to the minute (and the << percentage who change their minds won't affect their analysis/reaction).

Obviously, FP+ doesn't capture ALL guests but it certainly is a strong indication of what they can expect. Considering the FP+ reservation windows guests are permitted, Disney has this information months ahead of time. Disney is staffing *in a manner that suits Disney*. Note the asterisks ...Disney is fully aware of what they are doing. I don't buy anyone saying otherwise. I may not agree with/like the result. It may be part of the learning process for Disney ... I'd be willing to concede that. However, these crowd levels and "understaffing" are certainly not an oversight on Disney's part. I'd bet on that.

Exact-a-mundo!

 

[CeruleanMoon]

We were there 1/27 to 2/3 and we saw none of the things people are talking about on this thread. Nothing was running at half capacity (we RDed every day) unless broken down. Wait times, with a good touring plan and FPs were 15 minutes or less for nearly everything we did (obviously had FPs for FoP and 7DMT). The parks were significantly busier than is typical for that time of year.

Thank you. I'm glad to hear that your experience was fairly positive.