Disney pricing the middle class out

[rteetz]

here is a good article showing how Disney is not focused on the middle class anymore. Prices just keep rising. I like how disney defended this saying they are always adding new experiences for guests.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ke-disney-world-left-the-middle-class-behind/

 

[RMColosimo]

I guess you could say that. But we did Disney two years ago, and stayed off site and it was very affordable. The tickets to the parks cost more than the house for a week did.

In about a week we are going back and staying on site, and it is costing a LOT more, but not that bad as long as we budget where we are eating, and save up for the trip.

I guess my wife and I make decent money, but not what I would call 'rich' and actually, my wife doesn't even start her new job until August, so we only have the one income. <shrug>

The article makes good points, but I think you can do Disney on a budget is all I am saying.

 

[rteetz]

I guess you could say that. But we did Disney two years ago, and stayed off site and it was very affordable. The tickets to the parks cost more than the house for a week did.

In about a week we are going back and staying on site, and it is costing a LOT more, but not that bad as long as we budget where we are eating, and save up for the trip.

I guess my wife and I make decent money, but not what I would call 'rich' and actually, my wife doesn't even start her new job until August, so we only have the one income. <shrug>

The article makes good points, but I think you can do Disney on a budget is all I am saying.

I think the main point of the article was to show how much tickets have been increasing over the years.

 

[kbelle8995]

I think that some visitors think of it as a one time thing. And never again. You have people here on the boards who maybe go every other year or every year. They won't stop raising ticket prices until they feel it in their bottom line and that hasn't happened yet. And judging from how horribly crowded MK is, It won't for some time.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Article as a great quote from the Disney fan/blogging community:

“When Walt created Disneyland, this was a middle-class country. But Disney now . . . as far as pricing out the middle class, they think: What middle class?” said Robert Niles, the editor of Theme Park Insider, an industry blog.

“Disney’s made a strategic decision that they’re not going to discount to hold onto people at the middle part of the economy,” he said. “They’re going to set their prices at the top 10 percent of family incomes and make their money where the money is.”

Indeed ... what middle class?






Link

I appreciate these articles showing how prices of things are going up much faster than people's ability to pay, but after you've read about 200 of them, it gets extremely frustrating that the causes of inflation are never addressed. You could say that job #1 of the mainstream financial press is to hide from the public the causes of inflation.

Many of you have probably heard the story that in WWII, all major participating governments duplicated the engraving plates of their enemies' currencies. The purpose was partly to be able to pay off their secret agents in those countries, but there was also a plan to drop billions in counterfeit currency onto enemy territory in order to completely wreck the enemy's economy. The reason why no country did so is that their own country was just as vulnerable as their enemy's. Ruining the enemy's economy with inflation would be like dropping poison gas on them ... easy to commit, but hard to prevent retaliation. The story is widely known, it's true, and it's easy to understand because it make complete sense.

Now you have every single major (and minor) government and monetary authority in the world essentially wrecking their own economies by printing money and dropping it all across the land. But it's disguised as "easing" or "stimulus" or "necessary liquidity". People are so bamboozled they literally no longer understand what wealth is, or what the meaning of money is. No wonder they're scratching their heads when they see the big gap between wages and prices, and between financial expectations and financial reality.

 

[loutoo]

This article completely ignores the change in pricing structure for WDW and the MK, and the elimination of the ride ticket system. Sure, general admission in 1971 was only $3.75, but in order to actually ride the rides you then had to purchase ride tickets. assuming you wanted to ride 15 rides in your day in the park, that would cost you another $7-$9.50 depending on the rides you rode. That puts the real cost around $12. Which equals about $70 today. There was also only one park. If you want to spend one day in each of the four parks today it would cost you $305 or $76.25 a day (less if you bought discount tickets through UT or another broker) and far less if you added additional days. The ugly truth is despite the incredible increase in number and quality of attractions, the cost of wdw park tickets, in comparison to inflation, has changed very little. At there cheapest in the mid 80s the cost in today's dollars was around $55.

I know it might be in vogue to point to price increases at Disney and complain about the evil giant corporation, but the reality is, an average middle class family can afford a vacation or two to wdw while the kids grow up just as easily as they could fifty years ago. Yes, it is a splurge, and most likely takes planning and saving, but it always was that way. And it is probably even more worth it today than it was back then.

 

[rteetz]

This article completely ignores the change in pricing structure for WDW and the MK, and the elimination of the ride ticket system. Sure, general admission in 1971 was only $3.75, but in order to actually ride the rides you then had to purchase ride tickets. assuming you wanted to ride 15 rides in your day in the park, that would cost you another $7-$9.50 depending on the rides you rode. That puts the real cost around $12. Which equals about $70 today. There was also only one park. If you want to spend one day in each of the four parks today it would cost you $305 or $76.25 a day (less if you bought discount tickets through UT or another broker) and far less if you added additional days. The ugly truth is despite the incredible increase in number and quality of attractions, the cost of wdw park tickets, in comparison to inflation, has changed very little. At there cheapest in the mid 80s the cost in today's dollars was around $55.

I know it might be in vogue to point to price increases at Disney and complain about the evil giant corporation, but the reality is, an average middle class family can afford a vacation or two to wdw while the kids grow up just as easily as they could fifty years ago. Yes, it is a splurge, and most likely takes planning and saving, but it always was that way. And it is probably even more worth it today than it was back then.

Yes but it's not just tickets that have gone up of course. Hotels, food and merchandise have all gone up. You can stay in a Polynesian bungalow for 2,000 a night how many middle class families can afford that plus food plus tickets plus all of the Mickey and Olaf plushes that the kids want.

 

[jlwhitney]

Yes but it's not just tickets that have gone up of course. Hotels, food and merchandise have all gone up. You can stay in a Polynesian bungalow for 2,000 a night how many middle class families can afford that plus food plus tickets plus all of the Mickey and Olaf plushes that the kids want.

Not every experience is also geared at the middle class. Disney knows most would never pay that no matter what they make but they know they have those that will and will do time and time again.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

There price increases are well above standard inflation...it's straight profiteering and there is no argument...

But lets hear it...

 

[piccolopat]

There price increases are well above standard inflation...it's straight profiteering and there is no argument...

But lets hear it...

If the parks stayed exactly the same as they used to be with only minimal ongoing maintenance being done, you might have an argument there. The reality is that Disney has spent a lot over the years to build new parks, new rides, new places to stay and eat. Some of us wish they spent more money improving the parks rather than all of the DVC and hotel spending, but it is a Disney investment nevertheless. That investment has to be built into their pricing.

 

[loutoo]

Yes but it's not just tickets that have gone up of course. Hotels, food and merchandise have all gone up. You can stay in a Polynesian bungalow for 2,000 a night how many middle class families can afford that plus food plus tickets plus all of the Mickey and Olaf plushes that the kids want.

Yes, a middle class family can not afford to stay at the new bungalows, but that doesn't mean the general price has increased. In 1971 the cheapest room rate on Disney property was $29 or $173 per night in today's money. You can easily get a room cheaper on property today. Value resort rooms start at $85 per night, so about half the cost at the time then. You can get even better rates off site.

Yes there is a whole new class of luxury offerings available in wdw, but the moderate offerings cost about the same as they did 50 years ago, and Disney has also added value offerings for the more frugal.

To answer your specific question of how many middle class families can afford luxury accommodations, five star dining and every toy and souvenir thier children may desire? well, exactly the same number who could in 1971: None. But if you want an answer to how many middle class families can afford a responsible, well budgeted vacation to the happiest place on Earth? again it is exactly the same number as in 1971. all of them that save and have the desire to do so.

 

[rteetz]

If the parks stayed exactly the same as they used to be with only minimal ongoing maintenance being done, you might have an argument there. The reality is that Disney has spent a lot over the years to build new parks, new rides, new places to stay and eat. Some of us wish they spent more money improving the parks rather than all of the DVC and hotel spending, but it is a Disney investment nevertheless. That investment has to be built into their pricing.

What about parks like DHS and Epcot both have had very little investment in the last 10 years. Can you justify either park for $100 with what 5-6 rides and shows that have been the same for a long time.

 

[rteetz]

Yes, a middle class family can not afford to stay at the new bungalows, but that doesn't mean the general price has increased. In 1971 the cheapest room rate on Disney property was $29 or $173 per night in today's money. You can easily get a room cheaper on property today. Value resort rooms start at $85 per night, so about half the cost at the time then. You can get even better rates off site.

Yes there is a whole new class of luxury offerings available in wdw, but the moderate offerings cost about the same as they did 50 years ago, and Disney has also added value offerings for the more frugal.

To answer your specific question of how many middle class families can afford luxury accommodations, five star dining and every toy and souvenir thier children may desire? well, exactly the same number who could in 1971: None. But if you want an answer to how many middle class families can afford a responsible, well budgeted vacation to the happiest place on Earth? again it is exactly the same number as in 1971. all of them that save and have the desire to do so.

Value rooms start at $85? Not today they are normally 100+. They also offer very little and places like the all stars are comparable to a holiday inn in rooms. You could stay at the swan and dolphin for less than $200 a night with great pools restaurants and an excellent location. Obviously middle class families can still afford it but can they really or is it most on credit. It's just an interesting topic that is all.

 

[DDLand]

There price increases are well above standard inflation...it's straight profiteering and there is no argument...

But lets hear it...

That's a bad thing?

 

[piccolopat]

What about parks like DHS and Epcot both have had very little investment in the last 10 years. Can you justify either park for $100 with what 5-6 rides and shows that have been the same for a long time.

Well, we don't just come and buy a one day ticket. We're usually visiting for a week and so that cost per day is much less. At the moment, DHS is a not a full day park for us but we still go and have a good time. We still love Epcot but wish they didn't get rid of the old rides we loved so much (original Figment, World of Motion, Horizens, Cranium Command, etc.) and the themed music. They could have just added to what they already had. I do hope they have the imagination to really build up Epcot, adding rides to compliment each country and making future world something to look forward to again.

 

[DDLand]

Of course they're making more off each guest, that's because they were undervalued in the first place. Millions are choosing Disney Vacations, and they're profiting from those guests in more and more effective ways. We can have conversations about whether this is sustainable. Some would argue it can't last long. That's a different conversation. It sucks for all of us who have to pay more, but it's not an inherently bad thing.

 

[rteetz]

Well, we don't just come and buy a one day ticket. We're usually visiting for a week and so that cost per day is much less. At the moment, DHS is a not a full day park for us but we still go and have a good time. We still love Epcot but wish they didn't get rid of the old rides we loved so much (original Figment, World of Motion, Horizens, Cranium Command, etc.) and the themed music. They could have just added to what they already had. I do hope they have the imagination to really build up Epcot, adding rides to compliment each country and making future world something to look forward to again.

I agree and I also don't get one day tickets either but if Disney goes to tiered pricing that could of course change things. I'm just playing devils advocate.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If the parks stayed exactly the same as they used to be with only minimal ongoing maintenance being done, you might have an argument there. The reality is that Disney has spent a lot over the years to build new parks, new rides, new places to stay and eat. Some of us wish they spent more money improving the parks rather than all of the DVC and hotel spending, but it is a Disney investment nevertheless. That investment has to be built into their pricing.

Look at their construction history 71-99 and look at it since...then recompute

 

[DDLand]

One interesting note, even though the prices have increased dramatically Margins remain several points off their high in the 90s, and Universal still retains significantly higher margins. For all the noise that is made about high prices, Disney has been stuck.

 

[Tardisblue]

Disney is currently a buffet. When you go to a buffet you want to get as much out of it as you can to justify the cost. If it were to revert back to being a la cart, I imagine crowds would shift and some rides would become less crowded.

I'm amused by people who complain that Disney is price-gouging "us". Nobody is forcing anyone to go to Disney for their vacation. There are substitutes, albeit imperfect ones, vying for your vacation dollars. Of course Disney is going to continue to increase prices as long as the crowds continue to increase. Will I go to Disney for $100 per day? Yep. Will I go for $200 per day? Nope. Somewhere between those 2 amounts is where my personal supply and demand curves meet for a Disney experience.